Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Reminder that a potential VGA reveal doesn't necessarily have to be a big one.

Nintendo straight up gave us no game at all despite the Switch having "lots of games" at last year's VGAs, so we could have anything, even nothing at all.

Weren't people pissed last year cause they watched the VGAs and no smash character was revealed?

 

[Ridrool64]

I think instead of "promote Alph to Echo", we should go full ham. All 6 Captains from Pikmin in 1 slot, Bowser Jr. style.

I wouldn't be opposed to an Alph promotion, or Louie, but I think this would make more sense.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Weren't people pissed last year cause they watched the VGAs and no smash character was revealed?

No, people were upset last year because they watched the VGAs and WASTED THEIR TIME.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Weren't people pissed last year cause they watched the VGAs and no smash character was revealed?

Because no Nintendo anything was revealed.

I don't expect anything big in Game Awards. If anything, the fact that it's the Game Awards means they could use that opportunity to show something more obscure to a very massive audience.

Anything can happen. We could get a massive name, we could get a smaller one, or even nothing at all. Don't go ahead and start expecting your Crashes and Genoes and Soras, because chances are you'll be dissapointed.

 

[PeridotGX]

I decided to make a mockup roster for an Ultimate DX.

(DX additions are bottom row, the 4 characters after Steve are more or less my FP Vol.2 predictions.

The core idea of this roster? Celebration of the Nintendo Switch.

• Gooigi is an easy echo and represents Luigi's Mansion 3
• Blaziken... honestly I just want to plug this idea wherever I can. Represents PMD DX and Pokken DX I guess.
• Shadow is an easy echo, and most of the modern Sonic games have turned up on Switch
• Tom Nook - New Horizons might become the best selling Switch games
• Jeanne - Bayonetta 3
• Octoling - Octo Expansion
• Seth - He's the main character of Bravely Default II, and an Agnes echo.
• Waluigi - this is more for his overwhelming popularity than anything. Mario Tennis Aces, I guess.
• Bandana Dee - Star Allies
• Guardian - this is an interesting one. Originally, I had the Labo Man (as a wild card character) and Impa (as a BoTW trilogy rep). I trimmed that a little by adding Guardian as a rep for both (and IMO a better BoTW trilogy rep than Impa)
• Ayumi - "retro" rep, plus the remakes of the Detective Club games.
• Monster Hunter - MH Rise, plus I wanted at least one new Third Party
• Ring Fit - that game's crazy sucessful
• Akira - Astral Chain did well I think
• Issac - another fan demand pick, and appearently there are rumors about a Golden Sun revival but i don't buy that.

All those plus Oddessy (Mario),Three Houses, ARMS, XB2, and SWSH... I think the only notable Switch game unrepresented is MP4, but I can't really accomidate for unnanounced games. The side content follows this pattern.

 

[Schnee117]

Weren't people pissed last year cause they watched the VGAs and no smash character was revealed?

VGA last year was **** all around.
At least we got that D&D game trailer though

 

[Lamperouge]

Bravely Default 2 announcement tho

 

[kirbsmash]

I want Magnus playable. I don't care that he's another swordfighter he's coool as hell.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Actually I Gotta ask

in your opinion, What do you think would need to be in a Ultimate port (if they decided to do an upgraded Ultimate Port), for people to buy it, knowing it's the same game but it's upgraded and such

Honestly? Absolutely nothing. People will just buy Ultimate again, as is. Just to have Smash on the new system. They did it with Mario Kart 8. They did it with NSMBU.

What would I need? Just some new characters. Even if it's all DLC.
Some other things it SHOULD have? Better online, and bring back more stages to try and get "Everywhere is here!"

Of course, what I WANT is way more than that, but that's not what you asked.

The core idea of this roster? Celebration of the Nintendo Switch.

Oh, so...15 shill picks then. That's...fun.

 

[PeridotGX]

Honestly? Absolutely nothing. People will just buy Ultimate again, as is. Just to have Smash on the new system. They did it with Mario Kart 8. They did it with NSMBU.

What would I need? Just some new characters. Even if it's all DLC. Better online would be nice too.
Of course, what I WANT is way more than that, but it's not what you asked.

Oh, so...15 shill picks then. That's...fun.

the smash fanbase: where any character who's made an appearance after the year 2000 is a shill pick.

such promotional nobodies as Issac and Waluigi

 

[DarthEnderX]

the smash fanbase: where any character who's made an appearance after the year 2000 is a shill pick.

Your description was LITERALLY just "promoting things on Switch we want to bring your attention to". Like, shilling was the stated objective, whether you realize it or not.

such promotional nobodies as Issac and Waluigi

Yeah, the two characters on your list that aren't related to your original mission statement. You even said those aren't part of the theme, they were just random fan picks.

 

[ARandomFruit]

I think Battle Harbor would be a cool stage if we get a next smash game and Ken is still in or if there is a deluxe version of Smash Ultimate.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's funny how people hate shill picks, then whenever any character is announced, they make every stretch possible to conclude that character is shill.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Your description was LITERALLY just "promoting things on Switch we want to bring your attention to". Like, shilling was the stated objective, whether you realize it or not.

Yeah, the two characters on your list that aren't related to your original mission statement. You even said those aren't part of the theme, they were just random fan picks.

If this is a port of Ultimate than the Switch would be an old console. As in, not actively being sold any more.

This is just a prime example of Smash fans not knowing how th use the word "shill."

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think instead of "promote Alph to Echo", we should go full ham. All 6 Captains from Pikmin in 1 slot, Bowser Jr. style.

I wouldn't be opposed to an Alph promotion, or Louie, but I think this would make more sense.

That's what I've been saying. Now all Pikmin 4 has gotta do is get it's ass over here, make two new characters and we're golden.

I decided to make a mockup roster for an Ultimate DX.View attachment 290931
(DX additions are bottom row, the 4 characters after Steve are more or less my FP Vol.2 predictions.

The core idea of this roster? Celebration of the Nintendo Switch.

• Gooigi is an easy echo and represents Luigi's Mansion 3
• Blaziken... honestly I just want to plug this idea wherever I can. Represents PMD DX and Pokken DX I guess.
• Shadow is an easy echo, and most of the modern Sonic games have turned up on Switch
• Tom Nook - New Horizons might become the best selling Switch games
• Jeanne - Bayonetta 3
• Octoling - Octo Expansion
• Seth - He's the main character of Bravely Default II, and an Agnes echo.
• Waluigi - this is more for his overwhelming popularity than anything. Mario Tennis Aces, I guess.
• Bandana Dee - Star Allies
• Guardian - this is an interesting one. Originally, I had the Labo Man (as a wild card character) and Impa (as a BoTW trilogy rep). I trimmed that a little by adding Guardian as a rep for both (and IMO a better BoTW trilogy rep than Impa)
• Ayumi - "retro" rep, plus the remakes of the Detective Club games.
• Monster Hunter - MH Rise, plus I wanted at least one new Third Party
• Ring Fit - that game's crazy sucessful
• Akira - Astral Chain did well I think
• Issac - another fan demand pick, and appearently there are rumors about a Golden Sun revival but i don't buy that.

All those plus Oddessy (Mario),Three Houses, ARMS, XB2, and SWSH... I think the only notable Switch game unrepresented is MP4, but I can't really accomidate for unnanounced games. The side content follows this pattern.

Oof! I don't like that character selection personally but I could see Nintendo going this route. Although I don't think that Nintendo will really listen to fan demand. I mean they're actively filing against Joy-con drift and making games available for only a limited time.

 

[PeridotGX]

That's what I've been saying. Now all Pikmin 4 has gotta do is get it's ass over here, make two new characters and we're golden.



Oof! I don't like that character selection personally but I could see Nintendo going this route. Although I don't think that Nintendo will really listen to fan demand. I mean they're actively filing against Joy-con drift and making games available for only a limited time.

If there's an Ultimate DX, I think the character selection is back in Sakurai's hands. And even if it wasn't - they added Banjo in pass 1, there's precedent for them trying to appease fans.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If this is a port of Ultimate than the Switch would be an old console. As in, not actively being sold any more.

This is just a prime example of Smash fans not knowing how th use the word "shill."

Yes, but he's making the list NOW. His list is literally just 12 CURRENT shill picks(and a couple old fan requests).

He's doing the exact thing *****y shill pickers do of just picking characters from things that ame out recently/are coming out soon. But, oh, because it's for a theoretical FUTURE release it's OKAY to have a DOZEN roster picks from a goddamn 3 year period of Nintendo-console specific games. Coolcoolcool.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Reminder that a potential VGA reveal doesn't necessarily have to be a big one.

Nintendo straight up gave us no game at all despite the Switch having "lots of games" at last year's VGAs, so we could have anything, even nothing at all.

Agreed. People really overestimate characters like Crash and Sora, when I see Ryu Hayabusa being a much more realistic reveal there. Crash and Sora would fit more for E3.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

If there's an Ultimate DX, I think the character selection is back in Sakurai's hands. And even if it wasn't - they added Banjo in pass 1, there's precedent for them trying to appease fans.

If that's so then I see Rex and Monster Hunter switching places. Sakurai I could definitely see adding Rex but Nintendo? I'm not as sure on.

As for Banjo & Kazooie, I think that was all Phil Spencer's doing. If he hadn't intervened Nintendo would have taken Minecraft in a heartbeat.

 

[ahemtoday]

Honestly, I don't think I would want a Smash game where almost all the additions were themed around one specific console, no matter what that console was.

...I was gonna say "unless that was the theme of the roster as a whole", but honestly I don't think I would like it even then. If we get a themed roster, I'd want it to be something that could bring a wide variety of games to the table - like villains, or female characters, or something. Just representing one console isn't that cool, and it doesn't make me feel like we could get characters that we wouldn't otherwise get. It just feels like an arbitrary limitation.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, I don't think I would want a Smash game where almost all the additions were themed around one specific console, no matter what that console was.

...I was gonna say "unless that was the theme of the roster as a whole", but honestly I don't think I would like it even then. If we get a themed roster, I'd want it to be something that could bring a wide variety of games to the table - like villains, or female characters, or something. Just representing one console isn't that cool, and it doesn't make me feel like we could get characters that we wouldn't otherwise get. It just feels like an arbitrary limitation.

I mean. That's kinda what Smash's been doing before Ultimate right?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Agreed. People really overestimate characters like Crash and Sora, when I see Ryu Hayabusa being a much more realistic reveal there. Crash and Sora would fit more for E3.

We could also just get nothing at VGA and the entire Pass is just us not knowing until the Sakurai Presents

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We could also just get nothing at VGA and the entire Pass is just us not knowing until the Sakurai Presents

Oh that I know and honestly I'm leaning towards nothing, I'm just saying if we do at the chance get a reveal, it'll be someone more middle ground like Ryu Hayabusa.

 

[ahemtoday]

I mean. That's kinda what Smash's been doing before Ultimate right?

Adding characters from one specific console, you mean? ...Not really, I don't think. At least, not in a way nearly as obvious as that big list of Switch characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Adding characters from one specific console, you mean? ...Not really, I don't think. At least, not in a way nearly as obvious as that big list of Switch characters.

I misread console as console generation, but didn't Brawl have a lot of Gamecube characters and Smash 4 having a bunch of Wii era characters? That's the line I was thinking of

 

[Garteam]

I think Battle Harbor would be a cool stage if we get a next smash game and Ken is still in or if there is a deluxe version of Smash Ultimate.

Honestly, giving series a number of stages that is greater or equal to the number of characters they have on the roster would actually be pretty neat. It would be like every character had their own home stage.

Granted, that entails at least 4 more Fire Emblem stages, but I certainly wouldn't mind getting more of those. Maybe Sakurai could finally fulfill his Akanea stage idea from Melee.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I misread console as console generation, but didn't Brawl have a lot of Gamecube characters and Smash 4 having a bunch of Wii era characters? That's the line I was thinking of

That's just a result of the games being released early during a console's life, since there's no material from the current console that's known early enough to be considered.

Smash 3DS has been an exception, however, since it released years after its console.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think Battle Harbor would be a cool stage if we get a next smash game and Ken is still in or if there is a deluxe version of Smash Ultimate.

Shopping District, Taiping Road would also be pretty cool if we get Chun-Li in that hypothetical next Smash or Ultimate Deluxe.

 

[spicynun]

I misread console as console generation, but didn't Brawl have a lot of Gamecube characters and Smash 4 having a bunch of Wii era characters? That's the line I was thinking of

Only Gamecube newcomers I can think of in Brawl are Olimar, Ike, and Toon Link.

 

[PeridotGX]

being very generous, let's say Ultimate DX released in 2023. Rex would've been added 7 years after his game was released, making him about as much of a shill rep Ghirahim would've been if he was added in base Ultimate.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

being very generous, let's say Ultimate DX released in 2023. Rex would've been added 7 years after his game was released, making him about as much of a shill rep Ghirahim would've been if he was added in base Ultimate.

Which is why we'd get a Xenoblade 3 rep instead

 

[SNEKeater]

Honestly, giving series a number of stages that is greater or equal to the number of characters they have on the roster would actually be pretty neat. It would be like every character had their own home stage.

Granted, that entails at least 4 more Fire Emblem stages, but I certainly wouldn't mind getting more of those. Maybe Sakurai could finally fulfill his Akanea stage idea from Melee.

Honestly despite of some people being angry of FE getting more content, I think that would be proper.

I mean for all the playable characters the series has, FE only has 2 "real" stages, and when I say real I mean stages that are from unique locations of the franchise. The other 2 stages are pretty much made up ones, with some references and all, but still... it's not like they're not cool but I don't know, some FE games have pretty cool locations that could work for interesting stages.

The good thing of making stages for FE is that the fact each chapter in Fire Emblem games is a different map means the entries aren't really tied to a specific place (like happens with Sonic and Green Hill or DK and the initial jungle levels, for example), besides a few exceptions. So choosing a map as a stage for Smash shouldn't be a trouble, in that aspect they have a lot of freedom.

For Corrin they could have included the map from the prologue, while for Ike I think the Tower of Guidance from Radiant Dawn could have worked very well.

 

[ARandomFruit]

Honestly, giving series a number of stages that is greater or equal to the number of characters they have on the roster would actually be pretty neat. It would be like every character had their own home stage.

Granted, that entails at least 4 more Fire Emblem stages, but I certainly wouldn't mind getting more of those. Maybe Sakurai could finally fulfill his Akanea stage idea from Melee.

Having as many stages as fighters actually seems reasonable besides the 4 Fire Emblem stages they'd need to add. I'm pretty sure the only other franchises they'd need to add more stages too is Pokemon, Street Fighter and Castlevania and all of them is just need one more stage. Kind of wish they did that now, or at least give the echo fighters stages.

 

[SNEKeater]

Having as many stages as fighters actually seems reasonable besides the 4 Fire Emblem stages they'd need to add. I'm pretty sure the only other franchises they'd need to add more stages too is Pokemon, Street Fighter and Castlevania and all of them is just need one more stage. Kind of wish they did that now, or at least give the echo fighters stages.

Give Ken his Third Strike stage even if it's only as an excuse for having SF3 music so we could have bangers like this

or this one, among others

EVO moment #37 would deserve this. Also add Chun-Li as an assist or as a fighter to properly recreate said moment.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

OKAY. New question. IF Sakurai announced an official Undertale Rep, would you choose?!
This is my choice: UNDYNE!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

OKAY. New question. IF Sakurai announced an official Undertale Rep, would you choose?!
This is my choice: UNDYNE!

OHHHHHH YESSSSSSSS~

 

[Perkilator]

If we got some kind of Ultimate Deluxe... Hm. Let me see, I think mostly I would want something you couldn't really do just with DLC to Ultimate. Or, well, you probably theoretically could do the things I'm about to say with DLC and/or patches but it wouldn't really fit with the way they've been doing things. Heck, I'll even give specific examples. Rate My Ult Deluxe. That's what we're doing now, I guess.

• Obviously, all previous DLC comes in the base-game now.
• Equally obviously, overhauled online.
• I think an Ultimate Deluxe would be a good chance to include characters who feel a little more like base roster material than DLC. Not that that's a criterion that's in anyway objective - I definitely would've put down Byleth as one of 'em. Three characters come to mind for me on this one.
  • Bandana Waddle Dee is probably the best example of a "deluxe-y" character.
  • Dixie Kong is also a great example. I see her as sort of the Isabelle of the new inclusions, even if she wouldn't be nearly as much of a clone as Isabelle would be.
  • Rex & Pyra are characters I actually could see being DLC, but I'm not sure if the timing would really work out. This feels like a good spot for them.
• It'd also be a good opportunity to promote some Assist Trophies into full characters. You could probably do a full Fighter's Pass out of these, to be honest, but I wanted to limit myself, so I had leave some characters alone that I really didn't want to.
  • Isaac is also one of the characters that's at the forefront of my mind as someone you include in a deluxe port.
  • Bomberman being one of the ones to get promoted just makes sense to me, as well. Out of all the assist trophies from third-party series, he seems like he could be one of the bigger gets.
  • Shovel Knight is in a similar position to Bomberman. In general, when I was making the Assist Trophy picks, I wanted to prioritize new series to contrast the other new characters, who all struck me as picks that were good for a Deluxe specifically because they were from old series.
• Since they're not doing new Echo Fighters as DLC, I think this would also be a good time to introduce some. Preferably more Ken-like than the ones we got in Ultimate.
  • Shadow as fighter #38ε. Stick some glowy effects on his normal attacks, make him more about single hits than multi-hits, and give him a teleporting up-B. Honestly, even as a huge Shadow fan, I'd be fine with that moveset even if there's more you could theoretically do with him.
  • Alph as fighter #40ε, upgraded from an alternate costume. Instead of purples and whites, he plucks Rock Pikmin and Winged Pikmin. Instead of his up-B being more effective with less Pikmin, it's more the effective the more Winged Pikmin he has.
  • Octoling as fighter #64ε. Sort of a reverse-Wolf situations, where their normals are mostly the same but with different weapons and their specials are different, involving the Dualies, Splatling, Charger, and Brella.
  • Spring Man as fighter #76ε. He has different ARMS from Min Min, and instead of kicking, he has more attacks with his ARMS. Kind of a Chrom situation, in that while I feel we did end up getting somewhat more interesting picks... he was still a little bit robbed.
• Oh, I could also see some adjustments being made to existing fighters a little bit. Not, like, a complete overhaul, but maybe like a new special or Final Smash. Or a couple new normals. A little less than we normally get between games.
• Having every stage back would be cool, but I don't know how realistic that is. I think I may have already put a little too much on here.

Well, that's everything. Honestly, halfway through I realized this was a little too much effort for something neither y'all nor I would care about that much, but I was too far in to back out.

9/10

Rate my Ultimate DX (this is brand new content only):

Unique Fighters

• Crash Bandicoot
• Bandana Dee
• Toxtricity
• Euden
• Sakura Shinguji

Echo Fighters

• Black Shadow (#11ε)
• Shadow the Hedgehog (#38)
• Alph (#40ε)
• Ninjara (#76ε)
• Sakura Amamiya
  

New Assist Trophies

• Pokémon Ranger
• Hanneman
• Bald Bull
• Cactuar
• Futaba Sakura
• Golem (Dragon Quest)
• Mumbo Jumbo
• Nakoruru
• Creeper
• Dr. Neo Cortex
• Ichiro Ogami

New Stages

• N. Sanity Beach
• Dream Palace
• Wyndon
• Halidom
• Grand Imperial Theater

Returning Stages

• Rainbow Road
• Wooly World
• Poké Floats
• Mute City (Melee)
• PAC-MAZE

 

[chocolatejr9]

OHHHHHH YESSSSSSSS~

Why did I mistake him for a JoJo character?

 

[Perkilator]

9/10

Rate my Ultimate DX (this is brand new content only):

Unique Fighters

• Crash Bandicoot
• Bandana Dee
• Toxtricity
• Euden
• Sakura Shinguji

Echo Fighters

• Black Shadow (#11ε)
• Shadow the Hedgehog (#38)
• Alph (#40ε)
• Ninjara (#76ε)
• Sakura Amamiya

New Assist Trophies

• Pokémon Ranger
• Hanneman
• Bald Bull
• Cactuar
• Futaba Sakura
• Golem (Dragon Quest)
• Mumbo Jumbo
• Nakoruru
• Creeper
• Dr. Neo Cortex
• Ichiro Ogami

New Stages

• N. Sanity Beach
• Dream Palace
• Wyndon
• Halidom
• Grand Imperial Theater

Returning Stages

• Rainbow Road
• Wooly World
• Poké Floats
• Mute City (Melee)
• PAC-MAZE

Adding onto this:

New Bosses

• Ho-Oh
• Grima

New Modes

• True All-Star (has you facing characters in order of Smash debut; All-Star Smash gets axed)
• Coin Battles
• Boss Battles

Other Additions

• A new WoL area dedicated to the DLC fighters (also, fighters like Min Min get their initial Spirit Battle replaced by their awakening battles)
• Toggle individual hazards
• Create playlists for each stage

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Newcomers for my Ultimate DX.

Newcomers:
Bandana Dee
Crash Bandicoot
Elma
Isaac
Phoenix Wright
Waluigi

Echos:
Black Shadow
Dixie Kong (style)
Impa
Medusa
Octoling
Shadow the Hedgehog

Bandana Dee, Dixie, Isaac, Shadow, and Waluigi is for the fans.