Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SNEKeater]

Sakurai's POTD.

pic.twitter.com/y5zb24G2dM

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 31, 2020

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So, I just saw this article on EventHubs...

... probably not the most likely outcome, but it does make me wonder if a certain Capcom character with a penchant for crossovers could be a possible dark horse, possibly as Fighters Pass 2's equivalent to Terry (the character who is included because of their series' influence and legacy in a certain genre, in this case fighting games),

It might have happen if the franchise wasn't super dead and it also need to compete to other Capcom bigger names like Phoenix Wright, Monster hunter, Devil may cry etc. Terry has legacy and influence, but he was still active through the King of fighters series.

 

[Aerospherology]

Sakurai's POTD.

pic.twitter.com/y5zb24G2dM

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 31, 2020

Yep, it's him.
Yep, it's him.
Yep, it's him.
Yep, it's him.
Yep, it's him.
Yep, it's him.
Yep, it's him.
Yep, it's him.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Morrigan would unironically be cool to see, ngl.

I'd be hype. She was my second ranked want after 2B during the first pass

 

[Ivander]

A Falcom character, eh? Possibly Adol?

Well, I'm all for it cause Ys has frickin' amazing music.

And I'd be hella curious if Sakurai would do a history lesson for Ys and Falcom like how he did Terry and SNK.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Falcom is definitely similar to SNK in terms of franchise potential for Smash. I'd say Ys would be the most likely to get a character, though Trails could get a character as well. I personally don't have much experience with Falcom, but I have listened to some Ys music and having those remixed in Smash would just be

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai's POTD.

pic.twitter.com/y5zb24G2dM

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 31, 2020

Two bomb related pictures in a row huh? Maybe he’s trying to tell the fanbase to defuse a little.

 

[BlondeLombax]

On the topic of companies in Smash, with Travis out of the running, who could you guys see joining from Marvelous? I’m not saying anything due to personal biases.

 

[Calane]

After all the Falcom music posting from before, I don't think anyone posted anything from Ys IX (unless I just wasn't paying attention), so I decided to do it myself!

Also, here's Desert After Tears if you want another one.

 

[cashregister9]

Honestly I think Trails has a very slightly higher chance of getting a character than Ys does. Is it mostly bias? Yes but also these...

-The most recent Trails Game (Hajimari no Kiseki) sold almost 2x the amount [1] [2] that the most recent Ys game did (Ys IX) [3]
-Dragon Slayer the series is older than Dragon Quest and Dragon Slayer: 1. Pioneered the ARPG, 2. Split off into the also popular Xanadu Series 3. is still technically going on with the Legend Of Heroes Series. Ys has little to no connection to Dragon Slayer.
-(From what i've seen) Trails tends to be a bit more popular in Japan and Trails is also the series that Falcom uses in crossovers like with Langrisser, Phantasy Star Online, Valkyrie Profile, Monster Hunter and Taiko No Tatsujin. I have never once seen an Ys Crossover
-Ys came to the west first and thus had that boost in popularity here that might not have been felt anywhere else.

Both series are popular and likely I just think Trails has the slight edge.

EDIT: For the Sales numbers point, That is just physical sales in Japan, And apparently it is relatively big in Korea and China, So there is some murmurs that Hajimari no Kiseki sold around 200,000 to 300,000 copies

On the topic of companies in Smash, with Travis out of the running, who could you guys see joining from Marvelous? I’m not saying anything due to personal biases.

A Farmer from Story Of Seasons or a Character From Rune Factory

 

[TheBeastHimself]

From my understanding, Adol would be our Ys representative. But I'm even more unfamiliar with Trails, is there a consistent protagonist in that series?

 

[PeridotGX]

me before playing the Age of Calamity demo: Impa would be lame and BoTW Zelda would be a wasted slot.

me now: hello yes i would like one impa and BoTW zelda please

 

[cashregister9]

From my understanding, Adol would be our Ys representative. But I'm even more unfamiliar with Trails, is there a consistent protagonist in that series?

No, each Arc has a different protag.

Estelle is the Protagonist of the first part, Trails in the Sky She is considered the Mascot of the entire franchise.
Lloyd is the Protagonist of the second part, Zero no Kiseki and Ao no kiseki, They have yet to be localized.
Rean is the protagonist of the most recent part, Trails Of Cold Steel and a few of the Cold Steel games are on Switch.

I would say Estelle would be our Trails rep. But Rean is also possible for more promotional reasons.

 

[Idon]

From my understanding, Adol would be our Ys representative. But I'm even more unfamiliar with Trails, is there a consistent protagonist in that series?

Nope.
There are arcs that take place in a specific country in a continent and they each have their own protagonists.
Trails in the Sky has Estelle
Trails from Zero/to Azure has Lloyd (Bannings, not Irving, that's Tales, not Trails)
Trails of Cold Steel has Rean

It's generally accepted that the Trails protagonist that would be chosen would either be Estelle on account of her long-standing popularity and seniority as the first protagonist of the "Trails" branch of games or Rean as his games have reached a far wider audience and he's currently relevant ala Joker. Lloyd's games aren't localized and are Japanese/Korean only so unfortunately he's out, despite how cool it'd be to have a Tonfa wielder in Smash.

 

[Bruhinator]

Estelle would be my most wanted Falcom Rep but I’d also be super excited with Rean or Adol, I feel like Estelle would just offer a much more unique play style to smash than the other 2 personally.

 

[Calane]

Honestly I think Trails has a very slightly higher chance of getting a character than Ys does. Is it mostly bias? Yes but also these...

-The most recent Trails Game (Hajimari no Kiseki) sold almost 2x the amount [1] [2] that the most recent Ys game did (Ys IX) [3]
-Dragon Slayer is older than Dragon Quest and Dragon Slayer: 1. Pioneered the ARPG and the JRPG, 2. Split off into the also popular Xanadu Series, and is still technically going on with the Legend Of Heroes Series. Ys has little to no connection to it.
-(From what i've seen) Trails tends to be a bit more popular in Japan and Trails is also the series that Falcom uses in crossovers like with Langrisser, Phantasy Star Online, Valkyrie Profile, Monster Hunter and Taiko No Tatsujin. I have never once seen a Ys Crossover
-Ys came to the west first and thus had that boost in popularity here that might not have been felt anywhere else.

Both series are popular I just think Trails has the slight edge.


A Farmer from Story Of Seasons or a Character From Rune Factory

While Dragon Slayer pioneered ARPGs, the kind of game we've come to call JRPGs really started with Dragon Quest.

In fact, the game that would eventually spawn the Trails series, Dragon Slayer: The Legend of Heroes, was inspired by DQ according to that Falcom History video (he says it at around 25:40). Dragon Quest (1986) predates Dragon Slayer: The Legend of Heroes (1989) as well.

 

[cashregister9]

While Dragon Slayer pioneered ARPGs, the kind of game we've come to call JRPGs started with Dragon Quest.

In fact, the game that would eventually spawn the Trails series, Dragon Slayer: The Legend of Heroes, was inspired by DQ according to that Falcom History video (he says it at around 25:40). Dragon Quest (1986) predates Dragon Slayer: The Legend of Heroes (1989) as well.

You are correct about the JRPG thing I typed that and then did a bit more research realized it was untrue and forgot to delete that so I apologize for that slight inaccuracy. The point about Dragon Slayer I should have been more specific, I meant the Franchise of Dragon Slayer not Dragon Slayer: Legend of Heroes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

ok so after the falcom music talk, i (someone who had never listened to any of their tracks before) decided to just go to their awesome music section on tv tropes and simply Vibe, right?

literal second track that shows up. already a ****ing jam.

Honest to god, my jaw dropped when I first heard that in Ys Chronicles, it made me realize exactly why Falcom fans brought up the music constantly

The programming wouldn't be that terrible compared to some other characters... mostly Steve.

It's the ones making the models who would be having a really hard time because of how many models they'd have to make for just one move.

I'd say licensing would be harder, Demitri's never been in MvC because Marvel didn't approve of Midnight Bliss, you'd need the ok from everyone. Sure, Project X Zone shows you don't need to transform anyone, but that's why the move's so iconic in the first place

 

[Shroob]

Wait, Trails of the Sky is Falcom?


Mother ****** I've had that game sitting on my steam account for years after someone gifted me it lol.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

It might have happen if the franchise wasn't super dead and it also need to compete to other Capcom bigger names like Phoenix Wright, Monster hunter, Devil may cry etc. Terry has legacy and influence, but he was still active through the King of fighters series.

If Terry still appearing in The King of Fighters and other crossovers counts as being active despite his home series being dead (Fatal Fury hasn't had a game since 1999), then Morrigan and several of the other Darkstalkers cast are technically also still "active" due to appearing in tons of crossovers that involve Capcom.

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly I think Trails has a very slightly higher chance of getting a character than Ys does. Is it mostly bias? Yes but also these...

-The most recent Trails Game (Hajimari no Kiseki) sold almost 2x the amount [1] [2] that the most recent Ys game did (Ys IX) [3]
-Dragon Slayer the series is older than Dragon Quest and Dragon Slayer: 1. Pioneered the ARPG, 2. Split off into the also popular Xanadu Series 3. is still technically going on with the Legend Of Heroes Series. Ys has little to no connection to Dragon Slayer.
-(From what i've seen) Trails tends to be a bit more popular in Japan and Trails is also the series that Falcom uses in crossovers like with Langrisser, Phantasy Star Online, Valkyrie Profile, Monster Hunter and Taiko No Tatsujin. I have never once seen an Ys Crossover
-Ys came to the west first and thus had that boost in popularity here that might not have been felt anywhere else.

Both series are popular and likely I just think Trails has the slight edge.

EDIT: For the Sales numbers point, That is just physical sales in Japan, And apparently it is relatively big in Korea and China, So there is some murmurs that Hajimari no Kiseki sold around 200,000 to 300,000 copies


A Farmer from Story Of Seasons or a Character From Rune Factory

>-Dragon Slayer the series is older than Dragon Quest and Dragon Slayer: 1. Pioneered the ARPG, 2. Split off into the also popular Xanadu Series 3. is still technically going on with the Legend Of Heroes Series. Ys has little to no connection to Dragon Slayer.
This one's kinda stretching it. Persona spun off of Shin Megami Tensei, but Joker has nary a mention of SMT. Trails has even less connection to Dragon Slayer, which spun off into The Legend of Heroes, which then spun off into Trails. TLoH dropped the Dragon Slayer subtitle, which hasn't been used at all since the early 90's. Trails may be descended from Dragon Slayer, but unlike Trails, Ys is still an action RPG. If we want an actual Dragon Slayer/Xanadu rep, the best choice would arguably be Kou from Tokyo Xanadu.
Also...

I have never once seen an Ys Crossover

I know what you mean but the chance was there and I took it

 

[Calane]

Regarding who'd actually be the pick for a potential Falcom rep, I really think it comes down to who Sakurai would ask for. I feel like Falcom would say "yes" to whoever he wanted, basically.

Hypothetically, I get the feeling that if Sakurai picked the Falcom character, it'd probably be Adol. He's the oldest still active Falcom character, and I think that's pretty significant.

However, if Falcom picked the character, then it's very likely we'd get Estelle (or Rean) instead. She has plenty of merits that Trails fans have already gone over.

It could really go either way, but I'll always be rooting for Ys myself. I'd be completely fine with Estelle too, though.

I have never once seen an Ys Crossover

Not to respond to the same post twice, but I just knew an Ys crossover existed.

I vaguely remembered Ys crossing over with some weird game I never heard of, and I was looking all over the place to find what it was. It took me a while, but there was once a crossover between Ys and some mobile game called "Crusaders Quest".

Here's an article about it. And there's also a trailer for it too:

So an Ys crossover has happened before! ...It's probably a super obscure crossover, but still! Phew, thought I was going crazy for a moment there.

 

[SnowClaws]

On the topic of companies in Smash, with Travis out of the running, who could you guys see joining from Marvelous? I’m not saying anything due to personal biases.

Well, technically Travis isn't part of the Marvelous brand, and instead he is a GungHo Online Entertainment brand after Grasshopper Manufacture got acquired in 2013 by GungHo.

Anyway, for Marvelous rep

• Asuka from Senran Kagura, it is really bad that this character who despite being the main protagonist has yet appeared in a fighting crossover, and the side character are being the one chosen for the crossover instead.
• Story of Seasons (aka the original Harvest Moon)/Rune Factory/River King/Daemon X Machina avatar
• Momohime or Kisuke from Muramasa: The Demon Blade

Also, in 2015, Marvelous acquired G-Mode, a mobile gaming company who owns a ton of Data East IP in 2004. These IP also belong to Marvelous and I think they should be considered as well.

• Patty Pepper from BurgerTime
• Joe & Mac, Dark Seal, Fighter's History, Karate Champ, Magical Drop, Ring King, Outlaws of the Lost Dynasty, Treasure Island, etc.
• Lastly, G-Mode did a archive series where they decide to port their own mobile gaming series onto the Switch platform. The one game that caught my attention is Flyhigh Cloudia since it is a JRPG mobile with five installments. Raynus could be a interesting mobile rep in consideration for Smash beside Euden from Dragalia Lost or Saber from Fate Grand Order. A brief summary for Flyhigh Cloudia can be found here.

 

[GoodGrief741]

On the topic of companies in Smash, with Travis out of the running, who could you guys see joining from Marvelous? I’m not saying anything due to personal biases.

They own Story of Seasons right? Then Farmer for sure.

In fact, given how we got Daemon X Machina Spirits and now a No More Heroes Mii Costume, I think we should be seriously considering the possibility.

 

[7NATOR]

They own Story of Seasons right? Then Farmer for sure.

In fact, given how we got Daemon X Machina Spirits and now a No More Heroes Mii Costume, I think we should be seriously considering the possibility.

Isn't the fact we got the Daemon Spirits and the No More Heroes costume a reason that we shouldn't be considering a possiblity of Marvelous character, like with Bethesda and Ubisoft?

 

[Mamboo07]

It's ironic how Fortnite essentially became the new Minecraft in DLC speculation.

Both are highly successful games spawned in this generation with their own dev controversies. They are treated highly by Nintendo and both franchises have to bare the arguments of "bland default skins have no personality and won't happen. You barely even see them too, these games have no true mascot character!"

It's like a self fulfilling prophecy... One thing's for sure, Smash fanbase would devolve into utter chaos if Fortnite and Minecraft are featured in the same pass.

 

[Shroob]

Ya know, I got a hot take for ya.

I see a lot of people constantly bring up how the OG12 seem "dated" by design.... and honestly, aside from Samus, I kind of disagree.


All feel fine to play as, and honestly what I'd expect them to.

Have all been upgraded more dramatically over the years to better modernize them, Mario could also fit here due to FLUDD back in Brawl. Some may balk at DK, but he's got his roll and hand slam, and unless you incorporate DK64 elements like the coconut gun(that fires in spurts), he honestly feels like how DK should feel, IMO at least.

Had completely made up movesets due to their games being more vehicle focused, but honestly, these two have become somewhat timeless due to their movesets in Smash.

The only one who hasn't aged the best is , and that's mainly because Metroid has a lot of untapped potential its gained over the years via her arsenal and new abilities, but otherwise? I'd wager most, if not almost all, of the OG12 feel absolutely fine and do in fact hold up today.


Sure, they don't have a ton of gimmicks like a lot of newer characters, but not every new character has gimmicks either. Characters like Plant, Byleth, and hell, even Banjo all feel very 'vanilla' in terms of design.

 

[XorahnGaia]

If the leak is true I'd imagine that the Falcom character will be one the last character revealed for the pass.

Mostly because the leak itself states that Nintendo secured the rights for it in September 2019, which would be 2 months before the Byleth presentation was filmed and the plan for FP2 being finalized (as far as we know, it's not too farfetched to think that maybe they had all the character looked into place when they made the announcement that more DLC characters were coming).

 

[Koopaul]

If a company is getting a rep it will most likey be one of three options:

1. A historic character from a historic series.
2. The newest character from a newer series.
3. A fan favorite throughout the ages.

Those are your options. What could be considered Falcom's most histoically important series and what face could they take from it? What is Falcom's hot new game and who could they take from that? And who is a fan favorite among Falcom's collection of games?

 

[Shroob]

If a company is getting a rep it will most likey be one of three options:

1. A historic character from a historic series
2. A newest character from a new series.
3. A fan favorite throughout the ages.

Those are your options. What could be considered Falcom's most histoically important series and what face could they take from it? What is Falcom's hot new game and who could they take from that? And who is a fan favorite among Falcom's collection of games?

1. Adol from Ys probly
2. No idea, but Ys 9 comes out in Feb
3. Adol or Estelle from the Trails series

I'm a bit shocked but Adol has like, 9 games under his belt, the newest coming out early next year, and confirmed to be coming to Switch later on in 2021. The fact that Ys dates all the way back to the 80's shows it's a pretty damn long lived series.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Isn't the fact we got the Daemon Spirits and the No More Heroes costume a reason that we shouldn't be considering a possiblity of Marvelous character, like with Bethesda and Ubisoft?

I mean, people immediately believed Steve’s chances tried to swim in lava when Banjo and Kazooie joined the battle, and yet a year and a quarter later, turns out he had a fireproof potion on hand. Content from one company doesn’t immediately disqualify more content from it.

 

[Shroob]

If the leak is true I'd imagine that the Falcom character will be one the last character revealed for the pass.

Mostly because the leak itself states that Nintendo secured the rights for it in September 2019, which would be 2 months before the Byleth presentation was filmed and the plan for FP2 being finalized (as far as we know, it's not too farfetched to think that maybe they had all the character looked into place when they made the announcement that more DLC characters were coming).

I take issue with that idea tbh, if only because of one thing.

MinMin was launched the same time as an ARMs thing going on, and Steve was held back to coincide with Minecon.

Ys 9 comes out Feb 2nd in the US, and the leak itself theorizes that they could be 8 or 9. While, of course, this is one thing that makes me HIGHLY scrutinize the leak, because there'd be no way for the leaker to know.... theoretically, if they actually did know Ys 9's release date, then it wouldn't be that far fetched of an idea to assume that Adol would be sooner rather than later to promote the game.

While yes, Ys 9 comes out Feb 2nd in the US, it doesn't come out until "Summer" for the Switch, I still feel like it'd be sooner rather than later to get people's feet wet on the series though. Would be odd for this game to launch here in the states and only MONTHS later get made a big deal of when the Switch version comes out, though it's not impossible.

If it's true, it'll either:

Come out before the Feb release date, which would 100% put him next in line since January marks the 100 day marker since Steve around the 20th

Or

Right before the Switch port, which is just "Summer"


.....assuming this is true, which, while it has stuff going for it, it also makes me question it a ton.

 

[Ben Holt]

Ya know, I got a hot take for ya.

I see a lot of people constantly bring up how the OG12 seem "dated" by design.... and honestly, aside from Samus, I kind of disagree.


All feel fine to play as, and honestly what I'd expect them to.

Have all been upgraded more dramatically over the years to better modernize them, Mario could also fit here due to FLUDD back in Brawl. Some may balk at DK, but he's got his roll and hand slam, and unless you incorporate DK64 elements like the coconut gun(that fires in spurts), he honestly feels like how DK should feel, IMO at least.

Had completely made up movesets due to their games being more vehicle focused, but honestly, these two have become somewhat timeless due to their movesets in Smash.

The only one who hasn't aged the best is , and that's mainly because Metroid has a lot of untapped potential its gained over the years via her arsenal and new abilities, but otherwise? I'd wager most, if not almost all, of the OG12 feel absolutely fine and do in fact hold up today.


Sure, they don't have a ton of gimmicks like a lot of newer characters, but not every new character has gimmicks either. Characters like Plant, Byleth, and hell, even Banjo all feel very 'vanilla' in terms of design.

I made a new moveset for Mario using various powerups. The link is in my signature if anyone's curious.

 

[7NATOR]

I mean, people immediately believed Steve’s chances tried to swim in lava when Banjo and Kazooie joined the battle, and yet a year and a quarter later, turns out he had a fireproof potion on hand. Content from one company doesn’t immediately disqualify more content from it.

Different Circumstances

1. Banjo and Steve were in Different Passes though. Every FP is treated like a different Speculation Cycle

Even regarding people thinking Steve had no shot for FP2 because of Banjo in FP1, they were wronf, but I don't know how many people actually believed that, especially since Chief was a popular talking point for FP2 and he's also Microsoft

2. A New Company's introduction being through a Spirit Event or a Mii Costume is not a good sign for them getting playable character, especially when it's been around the time FP2 was Finalized. It's why I would consider Bethesda, Ubisoft, and Marvelous Soft Deconfimed. It doesn't mean it can happen, since there's technically no official rule, but I think Logically it makes sense

If the leak is true I'd imagine that the Falcom character will be one the last character revealed for the pass.

Mostly because the leak itself states that Nintendo secured the rights for it in September 2019, which would be 2 months before the Byleth presentation was filmed and the plan for FP2 being finalized (as far as we know, it's not too farfetched to think that maybe they had all the character looked into place when they made the announcement that more DLC characters were coming).

I think they finalized the entire FP2 before going through development, since they got to figure out the best time to reveal each character, and such like that

 

[GenoDoge]

Imagine Nintendo accidentally leaks a trademark like they did with SNK but it's Falcom.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It might have happen if the franchise wasn't super dead and it also need to compete to other Capcom bigger names like Phoenix Wright, Monster hunter, Devil may cry etc. Terry has legacy and influence, but he was still active through the King of fighters series.

Saying Terry is still active because of King of Fighters is like saying F-Zero is still alive because Captain Falcon is in Smash.

So by that logic, Darkstalkers are indeed not dead because Morrigan is almost always on a crossover that involves Capcom.

And if you think Fatal Fury isn't "super dead" right now, the last game in the franchise was released while Nintendo still owned Rare (1999, to be specific, so it was even before Banjo-Tooie) and the other recent Fatal Fury guest, Geese in Tekken 7, uses KoF mechanics rather than Fatal Fury ones. Smash is the first time in years that Fatal Fury is acknowledged by name and gameplay in a way that isn't simply porting the older games, KoF's "Team Fatal Fury" or Terry's hat.

 

[kirbsmash]

Saying Terry is still active because of King of Fighters is like saying F-Zero is still alive because Captain Falcon is in Smash.

Off topic but I love how you removed the question mark from Steve's name after the first fighter's pass. Anyway, how does it feel getting half of the dlcs correct?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Off topic but I love how you removed the question mark from Steve's name after the first fighter's pass. Anyway, how does it feel getting half of the dlcs correct?

Doesn't feel like much because I cheated by having like, 15 options. And it's even worse for Pass 2 lmao

Still happy that I called it for Byleth though. I actually really wanted that character.

Yes, I wanted Byleth. I'll be waiting for the mob on my front door

 

[Ornl]

On the topic of companies in Smash, with Travis out of the running, who could you guys see joining from Marvelous? I’m not saying anything due to personal biases.

If Travis was from Marvelous, that would have been a very bad omen for Marvelous in my opinion. I think the costumes represent more obstacles than teasers for their companies:
• The Goemon and Bomberman costumes aren't going to help Frogger / Momotetsu / Suikoden rep.
• The Rabbids and Altaïr costumes aren't going to help Rayman.
• The Vault Boy Costume isn't going to help Doomguy / Dovahkiin.
• The Heihachi and Gil costumes aren't going to help Tales rep.

After looking Story of Seasons for a long time, I think Marvelous is a dead end.
– Me: Can I have a fighter who does farming, who controls the field and who can fish?
– Nintendo: Of course! This is Steve.
– Me: Oh...
– Porky: If Farmer had been in the spirit of the base game, would you have looked at him thinking he would could be an ultimate fighter?
– Me: Oh...

 

[Dinoman96]

I know they say Terry comes from Fatal Fury in Smash, but to me, he's much more about celebrating the legacy of SNK than just Fatal Fury. It's why his pack comes with a buttload of spirits, music, stage cameos and Mii outfits from all across SNK's library.

Morrigan on the other hand would just reference Darkstalkers and that'd be it. And it'd be a weird inclusion with it being a dead series that wasn't particularly successful in its time, and also with seemingly no major pull from the Smash community for inclusion, as seen with Banjo.