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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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N3ON

Gone Exploring
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Nov 2018 left us with Kencineroar which had a mixed reaction. Let's imagine there were two other timelines for Smash Ultimate. In all three timelines Ultimate's final base game newcomers WILL be from Street Fighter and Pokemon Sun & Moon. The other timelines have Chunarina and Deciduguile (lol) as the final newcomers.


picture courtesy of @Mushroomguy12

Which timeline would you all pick?
Probably Deciduguile since I like the bird and Guile is pretty funny. Though ideally I could've gotten ghost bird shooter and spinning bird kicker.

All I know is that Kencineroar is at the bottom in both cases. :p
 
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SonicMario

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And i agree, you got to at least have something to debate over. You can't just say Waluigi bad or anything and expect good stuff. If I say, "Waluigi has a chance, but if Geno is an option, than has me worried about his chances" then that's a good debate question. I think that could happen with Assist discussion. yes
IMO Geno and Waluigi would have no bearing on eachother even if the case may be that one gets in first. Waluigi's first party and will probably find his way into Smash one day even if it won't be in Ultimate. Meanwhile Geno is still technically 3rd party and depends on how long Square is willing to play ball. Where Ultimate may be his last ever shot of ever making it into Smash ever again (And there's still the danger that he'll still be mii costumed given there's only about 3-5 Mii costumes left from Smash 4 to include after they've ever so slowly added them back with each challenger pack)

They're both from Mario games but they have completely different circumstances. A more apt Competition for Waluigi was technically a unique (or at least, semi-clone) Daisy. But Daisy got in as an echo. On one hand Daisy won because she's playable and Waluigi's not, but it's sort of hollow because Daisy's made no different from Peach and they just didn't make a Waluigi that would of automatically been unique just based on Waluigi's body shape cause they had other priorities.
 
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Ramen Tengoku

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Nov 2018 left us with Kencineroar which had a mixed reaction. Let's imagine there were two other timelines for Smash Ultimate. In all three timelines Ultimate's final base game newcomers WILL be from Street Fighter and Pokemon Sun & Moon. The other timelines have Chunarina and Deciduguile (lol) as the final newcomers.


picture courtesy of @Mushroomguy12

Which timeline would you all pick?
This is tough... I wanna say it's between Kencineroar and Chunarina

Incineroar was my gen 7 starter, the evolution of one of my all-time favorite mons in Litten and was my most anticipated base newcomer overall. That being said, Chun-Li's an equally awesome choice. Arguably just as iconic as Ryu and definitely one of my favorite SF characters.

Primarina I'm neutral on, though I do see potential in a more aquatic based character. Ken's cool and was honestly rooting for him as a potential echo fighter, but I can't deny the aspect of a full fledged newcomer in Chun-Li in comparison to Mr. Masters as a semi-clone

Deciduguile's an automatic pass for me, despite my love of Guile (and his god-like theme), only because I find Decidueye somewhat overrated
 
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Lionfranky

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Either way its still really low compared to the 3rd parties represented. If we ever got one its not because they were well received in Japan.

I don't think "raised it up casually and never got beyond the first stage" counts as actual discussion. But i want to point out something else.
To play devil's advocate, it's entirely likely we will not even see any FPS rep in this pass. They're non-factors in Japan - which already puts them behind other genres/franchises. Although Nintendo priorities can easily change/sway, we've had a consistent trend of japanese-led games (only 1 character out of the whole roster is from the west, and after years of begging).
Exemptions can 100% happen, and all you need is your favorite to break the trend. But that doesn't mean we'll send a sudden shift to western franchises out of nowhere.
MCC was recently released on PC, so who knows popularity there? Then again, wasn't last KOF game sold like 500k globally? I mean sure... Japanese arcades are still things.

Out of 20 million sales, Japan accounts only 3.8 million. It just doesn't make sense to ignore far bigger pie. I'm not saying Sakurai and Nintendo have ignored west, but if they want to go with bang, big west names are pretty much must.
 

7NATOR

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IMO Geno and Waluigi would have no bearing on eachother even if the case may be that one gets in first. Waluigi's first party and will probably find his way into Smash one day even if it won't be in Ultimate. Meanwhile Geno is still technically 3rd party and depends on how long Square is willing to play ball. Where Ultimate may be his last ever shot of ever making it into Smash ever again (And there's still the danger that he'll still be mii costumed given there's only about 3-5 Mii costumes left from Smash 4 to include after they've ever so slowly added them back with each challenger pack)

They're both from Mario games but they have completely different circumstances. A more apt Competition for Waluigi was technically a unique (or at least, semi-clone) Daisy. But Daisy got in as an echo. On one hand Daisy won because she's playable and Waluigi's not, but it's sort of hollow because Daisy's made no different from Peach and they just didn't make a Waluigi that would of automatically been unique just based on Waluigi's body shape cause they had other priorities.
I will say that Geno not getting in has nothing to do with Square. they even allowed his spirit to be in and allowed a Mii costume of him in the last game. It's really on Nintendo if they care enough to allow a Playable spot towards Geno.

I understand Geno and Waluigi have different Circumstances, but at the end of the day, with how the fighter pass is structured, I would be Super Surprised if we got 2 Mario Characters, with 2 sets of Mario stages, 2 sets of Mario Music, and 2 sets of Mario Spirits. If one of these characters gets in, I find the other character to be extremely unlikely


The Smash community as a whole has an undeniable problem with only discussing the top layer of characters perceived as likely and nothing else. That should be fixed, for sure.

But to hope Sakurai goes "one of these 16 characters will get in, I'll give you three months to discuss who it is" as if that would solve the issue is incredibly naive, and puts the burden on the wrong people. This might sound cheesy but it's us who have to fix the problems of speculation, not Daddy Sakurai.

At best it would only be a very temporary reprieve; even if all the potential candidates are given a fair shake, only one will get in and the rest will fade from discussion even harder than before. It happened with ARMS and would happen with any guessing game. Nobody expects to get 2 ARMS fighters, or 2 Capcom reps, or 2 Pokemon characters, and if they actually made the distinction within Nintendo that the next character is an Assist Trophy, then it follows that we'd also expect them to be the only one, as it wouldn't make sense to note that otherwise. That's a really ****ty situation to put fans of ATs in, to be honest, as now it's a "there can be only one" deal and if you don't think you're character's the one you have to wait until they show who it is. Even if there isn't a fandom war, it's certainly a great way to get all the other fandoms to dislike your character.
Honestly looking at this, I now don't want an Assist Trophy guessing game all of a sudden. I guess in the end it might do more bad than good. yes
 

Dalek_Kolt

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So Model's Resource recently released a new script that lets you port models and animations directly into Blender, and I'm excited about future modding opportunities and personal blender shipposts I can make.
1598235055967.png


Anyhow, if we're talking about Assist Trophies again, My answer of Dr. Wily being playable hasn't changed.
 

MarioRaccoon

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And actually, speaking of Resetera, You guys remember Tansut, the guy that leaked Cloud in Smash 4? I know he corr bated the rumors of Dragon Quest in smash, but after that I haven't seen him. do you think his source was deleted after Square fired the people for the leaks?
Tansut still has square sources. He leaked in the past few months that there is a sequel of The World Ends With You in development for Switch (timed exclusive like Octopath Traveler, then PC and maybe other plattforms). He didn’t shared more details.

If a Square-Enix character is coming to Smash (like Geno, 2B, Chrono and I suppose Sora also counts), he will probably get known. But, sadly, its probably that he will not share his info on internet.

Insiders know that Smash community is very toxic and aggressive, so if I were one of them, I wouldn’t shared any info that I have. The only ones that would tell something are people like Sabi and his minions.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Tansut still has square sources. He leaked in the past few months that there is a sequel of The World Ends With You in development for Switch (timed exclusive like Octopath Traveler, then PC and maybe other plattforms). He didn’t shared more details.

If a Square-Enix character is coming to Smash (like Geno, 2B, Chrono and I suppose Sora also counts), he will probably get known. But, sadly, its probably that he will not share his info on internet.

Insiders know that Smash community is very toxic and aggressive, so if I were one of them, I wouldn’t shared any info that I have. The only ones that would tell something are people like Sabi and his minions.
He-who-must-not-be-named is donezo, man. After that 150 page google doc, aint NO way he coming back from that

also

 
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7NATOR

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He-who-must-not-be-named is donezo, man. After that 150 page google doc, aint NO way he coming back from that

also

Wait are we not supposed to Speak Sabi's Name? In any case, I do wonder, if he didn't try to leak Nintendo Info and such, would we still have Smash leaks right now? I heard his shenanigans got sources found out and stuff, and the rest of the sources decided to keep quiet. I'm not even gonna touch on the other very troubling stuff in that document because there's not really debate about that.
 

TheBeastHimself

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With the exception of Banjo, how likely do you guys think it'd be to get a retro rep (NES/SNES era) in for FP2?

I always found characters like Mike Jones, Bub & Bob, and Zeke/Julie from Zombies Ate My Neighbors would be very interesting to see modernized. The reason I bring characters like these up in particular is because we're talking about DLC, and the requirements for DLC seems different from base roster based on notable trends.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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With the exception of Banjo, how likely do you guys think it'd be to get a retro rep (NES/SNES era) in for FP2?

I always found characters like Mike Jones, Bub & Bob, and Zeke/Julie from Zombies Ate My Neighbors would be very interesting to see modernized. The reason I bring characters like these up in particular is because we're talking about DLC, and the requirements for DLC seems different from base roster based on notable trends.
Not entirely unlikely, but I think it's probably Ryu or bust in that regard (he does have modern appearances, but I highly doubt he'd be classified as a Dead or Alive character, and 90% of any given character's moves are taken from older appearances).
 

Dalek_Kolt

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With the exception of Banjo, how likely do you guys think it'd be to get a retro rep (NES/SNES era) in for FP2?
ganon.png
darkmatter.png
syrup.png

I'd love to see that since most of my most-wanteds have their largest showings from SNES/Gameboy titles, but I doubt it. I mean you will still hear people complaining about the lack of proper DS reps.
 

cashregister9

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With the exception of Banjo, how likely do you guys think it'd be to get a retro rep (NES/SNES era) in for FP2?

I always found characters like Mike Jones, Bub & Bob, and Zeke/Julie from Zombies Ate My Neighbors would be very interesting to see modernized. The reason I bring characters like these up in particular is because we're talking about DLC, and the requirements for DLC seems different from base roster based on notable trends.
Maybe. There are not that many I personally could think of I can pretty much only think of Ryu Hayabusa. I can't really see Mike Jones because Startropics never released in Japan (I would like Mike tho) The lack of localization I think also stops Ayumi Tachibana from being playable. I don't know how popular ZAMN was is Japan, And since Taito is owned by Square Enix I don't know if that is who Square or Nintendo would choose as another Square rep (if they even count as Square enix that is)
 

SharkLord

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With the exception of Banjo, how likely do you guys think it'd be to get a retro rep (NES/SNES era) in for FP2?

I always found characters like Mike Jones, Bub & Bob, and Zeke/Julie from Zombies Ate My Neighbors would be very interesting to see modernized. The reason I bring characters like these up in particular is because we're talking about DLC, and the requirements for DLC seems different from base roster based on notable trends.
Depends on your definition of retro. If we're saying exclusive to that era like Lip or Mike, probably now. If we're going for characters who hit their peak there but managed to have a lasting impact, I could see Ryu Hayabusa or Bill Razer happening, the latter of which is sorely underrated.
 
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toonito

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He-who-must-not-be-named is donezo, man. After that 150 page google doc, aint NO way he coming back from that

also

Terry as a guest doubles partner in Pokemon would be hilarious

I'd imagine he'd be a fire/fighting type trainer but he'd also need a wolf type pokemon as well...🤔
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Terry as a guest doubles partner in Pokemon would be hilarious

I'd imagine he'd be a fire/fighting type trainer but he'd also need a wolf type pokemon as well...🤔
Well alright then, one last thing before bed...

does some quick googling

How's this?
  • Lycanroc (Midday)
  • Arcanine
  • Lucario
  • Starmie
  • Braviary
  • Hitmontop
 
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toonito

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Well alright then, one last thing before bed...

does some quick googling

How's this?
  • Lycanroc (Midday)
  • Arcanine
  • Lucario
  • Starmie
  • Braviary
  • Hitmontop
that's great

my picks are pretty much the same except I swapped both Arcanine and Lucario for Infernape who is based on Ukee, Terry's pet monkey

EDIT:
There was a problem fetching the tweet

thought this was funny
 
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CapitaineCrash

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With the exception of Banjo, how likely do you guys think it'd be to get a retro rep (NES/SNES era) in for FP2?

I always found characters like Mike Jones, Bub & Bob, and Zeke/Julie from Zombies Ate My Neighbors would be very interesting to see modernized. The reason I bring characters like these up in particular is because we're talking about DLC, and the requirements for DLC seems different from base roster based on notable trends.
If by retro characters you mean "character that was born in the NES/SNES era and never seen again after", then I don't think so. The only character that comes to my mind would be Mach rider, but I really don't see why Nintendo would go with him. If you mean more like "character that was born in the NES/SNES era but are still alive", then probably yes. Terry was born in the SNES era (Fatal fury released in 1991 on the Neo geo, so the SNES was still active and the N64 wasn't born yet), so by that definition, he would be a retro character. Same for Hero if you count his different skin. In that category, many characters could be in the game, such as Ryu Hayabusa or Arle.
 

SnowClaws

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With the exception of Banjo, how likely do you guys think it'd be to get a retro rep (NES/SNES era) in for FP2?
Anything can happen, but I lean more toward a character whose franchise is retro (NES/SNES era) and the character itself isn't considered to be a retro rep as they are the latest protagonist in the installment. Something like Dragon Quest, Pokemon, or Fire Emblem where the cast is changing in each installment.

For example, I hoping for Talis from Metal Max Xeno Reborn (2020) who is the latest protagonist, and isn't considered to be a retro rep as he made his debut in 2018 (Reborn (2020) is a revised edition of the original Xeno (2018) game), but the series he came from Metal Max/Metal Saga (1991) is a retro franchise.

Really, it depend on what the company wants. Another example would be from the Tales series, Cress Albane (retro, 1995) vs Lloyd Irving (non-retro, 2003).
 

Idon

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And in case of more than one representative for Three Houses, most of them can be build up from Byleth's current moves. Especially Dimitri.
No they can't. Out of a suite of 4 specials, 5 aerials, 5 normals, 3 smashes, and 1 final smash, Dimitri at best gets 4 moves while Edelgard would get 3, and Claude a measly 2.

That's not even mentioning the dozens of miscellaneous animations that are shared between the echoes that is reused, which obviously can't be the case between the FE3H Lords and Byleth.
 
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GoodGrief741

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With the exception of Banjo, how likely do you guys think it'd be to get a retro rep (NES/SNES era) in for FP2?

I always found characters like Mike Jones, Bub & Bob, and Zeke/Julie from Zombies Ate My Neighbors would be very interesting to see modernized. The reason I bring characters like these up in particular is because we're talking about DLC, and the requirements for DLC seems different from base roster based on notable trends.
Unless there's another factor pushing for them like being hella popular, highly iconic, or staging a comeback, I doubt we'll get a retro rep for DLC. The odds are there, it's not impossible, but I think they'll probably rather go for characters like Mega Man or Simon, which are retro in origin and appeal to retro fans but never really went away. Many have mentioned Hayabusa and yeah, that kind of character fits the bill better imo. Off the top of my head, I guess I could see a retro rep if Konami gets a character (though YMMV if it counts, as Contra and Frogger did get games in the modern age), and maybe like, Crono or Dig Dug or the Lee Bros. as outside shots.

I wanna say though, kudos for the Zeke & Julie shout-out. No way will we get them because Disney owns them and we'll definitely get Sora and even Guybrush and Manny Calavera over them, but still, that game's a classic.
 

Evil Trapezium

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Nov 2018 left us with Kencineroar which had a mixed reaction. Let's imagine there were two other timelines for Smash Ultimate. In all three timelines Ultimate's final base game newcomers WILL be from Street Fighter and Pokemon Sun & Moon. The other timelines have Chunarina and Deciduguile (lol) as the final newcomers.


picture courtesy of @Mushroomguy12

Which timeline would you all pick?
Deciduguile... and then find the universe where Banjo & Kazooie were also asked for...

... And in the same timeline where they reveal all of the fighters instead of keeping them a secret...

... And Sgt. Cortez being Fighter 11. Time to Split...

Time to Split compressed.gif

Finally compressed my Cortez gifs. I guess the file size limit has been reduced.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

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With the exception of Banjo, how likely do you guys think it'd be to get a retro rep (NES/SNES era) in for FP2?

I always found characters like Mike Jones, Bub & Bob, and Zeke/Julie from Zombies Ate My Neighbors would be very interesting to see modernized. The reason I bring characters like these up in particular is because we're talking about DLC, and the requirements for DLC seems different from base roster based on notable trends.
I said this couple of times before but if we get a real real retro like a literal dead out of nowhere for FP2 then I have to say V-MH GLORY from Metal Slader Glory is the only choice due to the connection with Sakurai's personal history like SNK games.
 

PeridotGX

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It's wild to me how we all classify NES/SNES rep as retro when GBA and GC are retro at this point
to be fair, Nintendo doesn't really treat it as retro. We got the NES and SNES classic, but nothing more. Switch online is current only those two systems. Most of the retro reps are NES, except for :ultgnw: but he's even older. In Nintendo's eyes, Retro is NES and SNES, maybe Gameboy if they're feeling merciful that day.
 

Cutie Gwen

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to be fair, Nintendo doesn't really treat it as retro. We got the NES and SNES classic, but nothing more. Switch online is current only those two systems. Most of the retro reps are NES, except for :ultgnw: but he's even older. In Nintendo's eyes, Retro is NES and SNES, maybe Gameboy if they're feeling merciful that day.
Ok but the Wii VC had up to N64 games which took the end of the Wii U's lifespan to add, but the Wii U also had GBA games, Nintendo's ****ty dripfeed system contradicts itself in that regard
 

Sabrewulf238

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Nov 2018 left us with Kencineroar which had a mixed reaction. Let's imagine there were two other timelines for Smash Ultimate. In all three timelines Ultimate's final base game newcomers WILL be from Street Fighter and Pokemon Sun & Moon. The other timelines have Chunarina and Deciduguile (lol) as the final newcomers.


picture courtesy of @Mushroomguy12

Which timeline would you all pick?
If I have to pick one of these timelines I'd go with Deciduguile because Decidueye is my favourite and I don't mind Guile.

Although if I could choose I'd go for Chun Li and Decidueye.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Nov 2018 left us with Kencineroar which had a mixed reaction. Let's imagine there were two other timelines for Smash Ultimate. In all three timelines Ultimate's final base game newcomers WILL be from Street Fighter and Pokemon Sun & Moon. The other timelines have Chunarina and Deciduguile (lol) as the final newcomers.


picture courtesy of @Mushroomguy12

Which timeline would you all pick?
Chin-Li and Primarina would’ve been infinitely more interesting but honestly I like exactly what we got the most. Ken is great and Inceneroar has more character in its animations than anyone else in the game and nails that wrestler archetype.
 

3BitSaurus

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I know it's mostly a dead point by now, but it's an interesting topic and I was too busy to answer yesterday, so...

I dunno, the one time I looked at what a League of Legends character could add to the game I was quite intrigued. If most or all of the candidates are like that I think the discussion could be quite fun.
Yeah, League has a lot of interesting playstyles and choices, but at the same time, out of all 150 options, discussion would probably default to the same dozen or so after about a week. This is due to a multitude of factors:

Some characters have abilities that can't be directly translated into Smash or even don`t make too much sense as part of a platform fighter, but at the same time are a core part of their identity/playstyle.

Ex: Cho'Gath has an ability where he literally eats a target whole, gaining extra health and growing bigger every time, to the point where a good Cho player will be almost as wide as the lane by the time the game ends.

Ekko has time manipulation as a core part of his identity, including having afterimages that track his movements and an ability that reverses his position to 4 seconds prior and heals him.

...And of course, Teemo becomes invisible if he stands still for 1.5 seconds. Which can be really fun in LoL, but considering you can't move or attack, would be cumbersome at best in Smash and useless at worst.

And then again, some just... aren't that popular to work as a face of League. Taliyah and Aurelion Sol come to mind (the latter being a particularly jarring example when you consider he's basically God in the League lore).

So by the end of week 1, there's a good chance we would default to just the most popular characters, like Ahri, Lux, Jinx and Ryze.

That's true, the game has a lot of very interesting choices. 3BitSaurus 3BitSaurus is more familiar with the game and its characters generally than I am, but that game's figureheads are pretty diverse and have different mechanics to them that can work well with Smash. Riot would probably be willing to help since they've made a Smash mod in the past.

I'm just thinking the general reaction would likely be negative - especially within the Japanese community, where LoL is niché and there are likely to be some complaints that Nintendo "sold out to Chinese and Korean interests". Also: no matter which forums we're talking about - Western, Chinese, Korean, whatever - the guessing game would likely wear itself out quickly because it'd likely devolve into "X is going to get in because Sakurai usually prefers the mascot", "Nuh uh, Y would get in since that character's got the most iconic passive!" etc.
To be fair: even if Japan has the third smallest server by ranked population these days, if we use the "over 100 million users" statistics from 2017 and do some math, that's still roughly over 700.000 players. Not too crazy, but it's also better than a lot of western games have done in Japan. It's why many speculate that League isn't as popular in Japan not because of the game itself, but rather because it's specifically tied to PC (which is notoriously small over there), plus the fact that Riot never really bother to advertise much in Japan.

I'm keeping an eye on how the japanese playerbase changes when LoL comes to mobile and console - I think it's almost certain we'll see some growth, however small.
 
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