Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

Lionfranky · May 30, 2020

Here's idea inspired by previous fighter pass theme.

This time, make fighter pass with game characters that don't have their games on Nintendo.
Since people believe mere skin/costume don't count as Nintendo appearance (Master Chief and 2B), I will say that skin and costume don't count as Nintendo appearance for sake of this game.

In no particular order

1. Master Chief
2. Ratchet & Clank
3. Kratos
4. Ezio Auditore (His games aren't on Switch yet. Only AC: Rebel on Switch)
5. John Marston (He predates McCree. He has unique moveset aka deadeye. He has moveset potential unlike GTA characters)
6. 2B

LiveStudioAudience · May 30, 2020

1. Nathan Drake
2. Sly Cooper
3. Marcus Fenix
4. Jak & Daxter
5. Knack
6. Gordon Freeman.

SKX31 · May 30, 2020

Will said:
Lugia?

View attachment 273193

****ing 17'01" Lugia? Good thing the "Too Big" memes didn't exist back then.

Can confirm (not just anecdotally either). Lugia was that popular at the time.

Lionfranky said:
Here's idea inspired by previous fighter pass theme.

This time, make fighter pass with game characters that don't have their games on Nintendo.
Since people believe mere skin/costume don't count as Nintendo appearance (Master Chief and 2B), I will say that skin and costume don't count as Nintendo appearance for sake of this game.

1. Master Chief
2. 2B
3. Sly Cooper
4. Valve character (whether Gordon Freeman / Heavy / Chell / Dota 2 character. The last one is pure want, but fine with the others. And no, Bridge Constructor Portal doesn't count since Chell's not in that.)
5. Thrall (WarCraft - WarCraft has a presence on the Saturn and PS1, but not Nintendo consoles!)
6. Another computer-specific representative (Whether LoL or something else. Perfectly fine with and even support LoL*)

*(If you had asked this a couple weeks later, there's a decent-to-good chance LoL might be disqualified from this game because Wild Rift's coming to mobile and consoles. Riot will stream more next week: there's a strong chance that LoL's coming to Switch.)

Guybrush20X6 · May 30, 2020

Evil Trapezium said:
I don't think it matters whether Geno's popularity (or any character in general) increases or decreases throughout the years. The most important thing to note is that Geno has made an impact in Smash Bros with the Mii costume in Smash 4 and as a legendary Spirit in Ultimate. Whether this means he'll get in as a fighter is irrelevant.

Take the Smash 2 poll for example. Banjo & Kazooie reached 8th place in the poll so they've already marked their impact within Smash Bros as far back as the early 2000's. We can tell because Sakurai mentioned once that he would have added them as a trophy back in Melee I believe during the Banjo & Kazooie reveal segment of his famitsu column, correct me if I'm wrong.

View attachment 273190

Original here: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult2.html

So Geno getting both a Mii Costume and a Spirit shows how far fan demand has gone so we know how popular Geno is just by how Sakurai and Nintendo have acknowledged it.

If he gets in then we'll most likely see fighter pass volume 2 belong to promotions.

I think a lot of people blow this topic out of proportions because it just seems like they believe every spirit that is wanted will get promoted. Never mind that there is a chance that a hypothetical Spring man could be the only promotion we see but we've only got 6 slots for characters so even if the pass is only for fighter promotion, not everyone's most wanted assist trophy/spirit promotion will make it in.

Man, the passage of time did my boy Gooey dirty.

Evil Trapezium · May 30, 2020

Lionfranky said:
Here's idea inspired by previous fighter pass theme.

This time, make fighter pass with game characters that don't have their games on Nintendo.
Since people believe mere skin/costume don't count as Nintendo appearance (Master Chief and 2B), I will say that skin and costume don't count as Nintendo appearance for sake of this game.

In no particular order

1. Master Chief
2. Ratchet & Clank
3. Kratos
4. Ezio Auditore (His games aren't on Switch yet. Only AC: Rebel on Switch)
5. John Marston (He predates McCree. He has unique moveset aka deadeye. He has moveset potential unlike GTA characters)
6. 2B

This sounds pretty hard considering the amount of characters that aren't on Nintendo consoles are just Sony and Microsoft exclusive but I'll give it a fair shot.

1. Postal Dude (Postal 2)
2. Tombi/Tomba (Tombi/Tomba)
3. Daniel Fortesque (Medievil)
4. Heavy (Team Fortress 2)
5. Gordon Freeman (Half Life)
6. R-108 (TimeSplitters) (The first one was only released on the PlayStation 2)

Honourable mentions

Max Payne (Max Payne) - Couldn't add him because he has a game on the Game boy Advance
Toki (Toki) - The remake is on Nintendo Switch. He would have been an arcade rep just like Pac-Man!
Dynamite Headdy (Dynamite Headdy) - The original game is on the Wii virtual console which could technically mean he is no longer on an official Nintendo console anymore but still.

Eldrake · May 30, 2020

Lionfranky said:
Here's idea inspired by previous fighter pass theme.

This time, make fighter pass with game characters that don't have their games on Nintendo.
Since people believe mere skin/costume don't count as Nintendo appearance (Master Chief and 2B), I will say that skin and costume don't count as Nintendo appearance for sake of this game.

In no particular order

1. Master Chief
2. Ratchet & Clank
3. Kratos
4. Ezio Auditore (His games aren't on Switch yet. Only AC: Rebel on Switch)
5. John Marston (He predates McCree. He has unique moveset aka deadeye. He has moveset potential unlike GTA characters)
6. 2B

1: Gordon Freeman [Half-Life]
2: Rytlock Brimstone [Guild Wars 2]
3: Ratchet & Clank [Ratchet & Clank]
4: 2B [Nier: Automata]
5: Master Chief [Halo]
6: Blorg [Stellaris] (I ran out of ideas at this point, I will admit, and also because I didn't want to double dip with companies)

Honorable mention: Serious Sam because I thought he didn't have a Nintendo appearance until I wisely looked up and it turns out he's been on the Gamecube and the Gameboy Advance.

Gribbo · May 30, 2020

Lionfranky said:
4. Ezio Auditore (His games aren't on Switch yet. Only AC: Rebel on Switch)

If you want to be that guy, there was a DS game called Assassin's Creed Discovery which had him as the main character.

DanganZilla5 · May 30, 2020

Lionfranky said:
Here's idea inspired by previous fighter pass theme.

This time, make fighter pass with game characters that don't have their games on Nintendo.
Since people believe mere skin/costume don't count as Nintendo appearance (Master Chief and 2B), I will say that skin and costume don't count as Nintendo appearance for sake of this game.

In no particular order

1. Master Chief
2. Ratchet & Clank
3. Kratos
4. Ezio Auditore (His games aren't on Switch yet. Only AC: Rebel on Switch)
5. John Marston (He predates McCree. He has unique moveset aka deadeye. He has moveset potential unlike GTA characters)
6. 2B

1. Master Chief
2. Kratos
3. Carl Johnson (GTA San Andreas) - And yes he does have moveset potential with baseball bat, minigun, molotovs, motorcycles and other vehicles, brass knuckles, he can call on his homies for help, and of course his final smash having him chase a train where Big Smoke shoots the opponents on top of the train. Or not and he gets mad and fires a machine gun around him.
4. Gordon Freeman
5. Ratchet and Clank
6. 2B

Professor Pumpkaboo · May 30, 2020

If I didnt get Layton or Sora and Sakurai gave me 2B, Id be 100% ok with that

Voe · May 30, 2020

DanganZilla5 said:
3. Carl Johnson (GTA San Andreas) - And yes he does have moveset potential with baseball bat, minigun, molotovs, motorcycles and other vehicles, brass knuckles, he can call on his homies for help, and of course his final smash having him chase a train where Big Smoke shoots the opponents on top of the train. Or not and he gets mad and fires a machine gun around him.

"Homies over here!", gathering his Grove St members like Pikmin and maybe using them like Luma? I never knew how much I wanted this.

Cosmic77 · May 30, 2020

Shroob said:
I mean, you're definitely not wrong to hedge a safe bet, but when was the last time Nintendo showed up with Smash at E3 and didn't bring at least 2?

I know E3 is canned yeah, but we also have the amiibo restocks hinting at a September drop, which would line up pretty close to how the DLC ended up last year, on top of DLC characters dropping the same month as amiibo releases in the past.

The amiibo restocks were originally scheduled for April, but got delayed because of Corona.

I'm not relying on previous patterns, especially for this E3. They may or may not have had another reveal planned, but now that their Direct is canned, there's really no obligation to reveal F7 in June. They can reveal the character whenever they want, and that could mean waiting closer to the character's planned release date like Byleth.

Al-kīmiyā' · May 30, 2020

Lionfranky said:
Here's idea inspired by previous fighter pass theme.

This time, make fighter pass with game characters that don't have their games on Nintendo.
Since people believe mere skin/costume don't count as Nintendo appearance (Master Chief and 2B), I will say that skin and costume don't count as Nintendo appearance for sake of this game.

In no particular order

1. Master Chief
2. Ratchet & Clank
3. Kratos
4. Ezio Auditore (His games aren't on Switch yet. Only AC: Rebel on Switch)
5. John Marston (He predates McCree. He has unique moveset aka deadeye. He has moveset potential unlike GTA characters)
6. 2B

Rondoline E. Effenberg

JudgeHeihachi · May 30, 2020

If anyone is interested to read it, I created a moveset for Heihachi to show people who are unfamiliar with him how he could work in Smash. It features detailed descriptions and custom artworks of each moves and also features a stage explanation, how I would envision a trailer for him and also the music selection that would come with him. For anyone interested you can take a look at it here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uIvUZRWC5dajoyiJ6bq7q2rQhQcRdqky/view?usp=sharing

First off I’d like to thank everyone who helped me with the process of creating this moveset:
All art courtesy of DeZApurified , without whom this moveset would have looked a whole lot emptier and who put a lot of effort into drawing so many moves to make this moveset come to life.
Winturwulf, who helped me with a lot of decisions to find the best way to translate Tekken gameplay into Smash.
Ravio-of-Lorule for giving me his moveset template.
All three from GameFAQs
Also @Zakhara who came up with the idea of using Heihachi’s Crouch Dash as a Side Special.

Alright. Most of the important stuff has already been said in the moveset document.
Also of note is that I think both his older and younger self would be included as alts.
I’ll post the links for the music here. I’m not saying Tekken should have these many tracks in Smash which would rival SNK’s amount of music, but this is a list of fan favorites from each game that I would list up if I were in Sakurai’s position so Namco can decide on which songs would get permission to use for Smash. I also tried to include popular songs from some other Namco franchises too so here’s the list:
Tekken 6 – Dist Thins Out (Character Select) This is the only song I’m confident of to be included as it was already shown alongside Heihachi’s Smash 4 costume https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tbmyL4-Iak
Victory Theme: from 0:22 to the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iwEudE2Va4 (click to expand)

I didn’t include any spirits as I don’t care that much about them. Main characters like Jin, Kazuya and Nina should definitely be included, but none of the bosses as I explicitly included them in the stage so they wouldn’t also take away spirit slots from other characters in the game as they already have a designated role.I also did not include any Mii Costumes as I didn’t want to open yet another can of worms.

So that’s basically all. Comments, critical opinions and every other kind of feedback is appreciated.

osby · May 30, 2020

JudgeHeihachi said:
If anyone is interested to read it, I created a moveset for Heihachi to show people who are unfamiliar with him how he could work in Smash. It features detailed descriptions and custom artworks of each moves and also features a stage explanation, how I would envision a trailer for him and also the music selection that would come with him. For anyone interested you can take a look at it here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uIvUZRWC5dajoyiJ6bq7q2rQhQcRdqky/view?usp=sharing

First off I’d like to thank everyone who helped me with the process of creating this moveset:
All art courtesy of DeZApurified , without whom this moveset would have looked a whole lot emptier and who put a lot of effort into drawing so many moves to make this moveset come to life.
Winturwulf, who helped me with a lot of decisions to find the best way to translate Tekken gameplay into Smash.
Ravio-of-Lorule for giving me his moveset template.
All three from GameFAQs
Also @Zakhara who came up with the idea of using Heihachi’s Crouch Dash as a Side Special.

Alright. Most of the important stuff has already been said in the moveset document.
Also of note is that I think both his older and younger self would be included as alts.
I’ll post the links for the music here. I’m not saying Tekken should have these many tracks in Smash which would rival SNK’s amount of music, but this is a list of fan favorites from each game that I would list up if I were in Sakurai’s position so Namco can decide on which songs would get permission to use for Smash. I also tried to include popular songs from some other Namco franchises too so here’s the list:
Tekken 6 – Dist Thins Out (Character Select) This is the only song I’m confident of to be included as it was already shown alongside Heihachi’s Smash 4 costume https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tbmyL4-Iak
Victory Theme: from 0:22 to the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iwEudE2Va4 (click to expand)

- Tekken 1 – Night in Chicago / Tekken 2 – It Makes Me Higher (Lee) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHtak4eM7sw
- Tekken 1 – Fiji Philippines / Tekken 2 – Roger / TTT2 – Paraiso Mix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rECfSWUAwoA
- Tekken 2 – Emotionless Passion (Kazuya) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya8Wf26k47M
- Tekken 2 – Be in the Mirror (Devil) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r9VFQ8947I
- Tekken 2 – Wild Beast Father (King) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlu4F9BbCUU
- Tekken 2 – Mechanized Space Ninja (Yoshimitsu) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_X_1CPOOJo
- Tekken 2 – Wandering Female Fighter (Nina) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjW0qqvg-nk
- Tekken 2 – Hot Blooded Martial Artist (Paul) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLRi7jl_UT0
- Tekken 2 – Black Winter Sky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZvslu_Blzs
- Tekken 3 – Heihachi Mishima https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLMbN5XXKgQ
- Tekken 3 – Jin Kazama / TTT2 – Far East Mix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcLPL8cPQ-8
- Tekken 3 – Nina Williams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJyiNp6WSQA
- Tekken 3 – Lei Wulong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkCMQ9AIvKo
- Tekken 3 – Hwoarang https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFnD4di3hA8
- Tekken 3 – Eddy Gordo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jshb0jEi_yo
- Tekken 3 – Forest Law https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN8RsUmCejo
- Tekken Tag Tournament – Staff Roll https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4E8hnfKg3g
- Tekken Tag Tournament – Xiaoyou https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzZg177mgIA
- Tekken 4 – The Inner Shrine (Hon-Maru) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjr1RpH2Bl4
- Tekken 4 – Bit Crusher (Shinjuku) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgf37ERwQMI
- Tekken 4 – Touch and Go (Airport) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzI4oEDp-10
- Tekken 4 – Kitsch (Beach Stage) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s60QcKHjK8
- Tekken 4 – Nothingness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaH0QtmL8eY
- Tekken 4 – The Strongest Iron Arena (Arena) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI4ZLeHg2uc
- Tekken 5 – To Those Who go to Heaven (Dragon’s Nest) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boUOVWaFF3g
- Tekken 5 – Moonlit Wilderness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClvzNSejzXw
- Tekken 5 – Antares (Cathedral) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzkVqfUq_WA
- Tekken 5 – Ground Zero Funk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwvJUkCax94
- Tekken 5 – The Finalizer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ueIUnon2c
- Tekken 5 – Hall of Fate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZBqjyIGsbo
- Tekken 6 – Splashing Casino (High Roller’s Club) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBjdvxlABH0
- Tekken 6 – Arisa (Anger of the Earth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSsep9ixKKY
- Tekken 6 – Sacred Dark (Azazel’s Chamber) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWyGWXmcoU0
- Tekken 6 – Karma (Electric Fountain) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52aAY5CI0L4
- Tekken 6 – Ethno Evening (Temple Grounds) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMXn9br0oSU
- Tekken 6 – Artificial Ruins (Urban War Zone) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0fJH1ub_yM
- Tekken Tag Tournament 2 – Intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY8aW38jbjI
- Tekken Tag Tournament 2 – Plucking Tulips (Tulip Festival) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkuljv1Pv4o
- Tekken Tag Tournament 2 – Mortal Power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4GMv6zoZNQ
- Tekken 7 – Moonsiders 1st (Infinite Azure) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lvdmh0DcmA
- Tekken 7 – A - U - N 1st (Abandoned Temple) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdWENKFvPkI
- Tekken 7 – Devil Kazumi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2DcRNZM2i8
- Tekken 7 – Desperate Struggle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV1njvthutA
- Soul Calibur II – History Unfolds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLx9H_ueaqY
- Soul Calibur II – Raise Thy Sword https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ofMuyX_y9U
- Soul Calibur II – Hellfire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtsY9d7mHNQ
- Tales of Symphonia – Like a Glint of Light https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubGH41sjuI0
- Tales of Symphonia – Fighting of the Spirit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCi9EoWz32A
- The Tower of Druaga – Main Theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHR8ZN4HW4Y

I didn’t include any spirits as I don’t care that much about them. Main characters like Jin, Kazuya and Nina should definitely be included, but none of the bosses as I explicitly included them in the stage so they wouldn’t also take away spirit slots from other characters in the game as they already have a designated role.I also did not include any Mii Costumes as I didn’t want to open yet another can of worms.

So that’s basically all. Comments, critical opinions and every other kind of feedback is appreciated.

I loved it. You've obviously put a lot of thought and effort into imagining how Heihachi can work in Smash and it shows. Give my thanks to the contributions, they've done a great job, too. Especially those pictures.

As for the moveset, it's pretty unique and full of personality. I particularly enjoyed the tilts, smash attacks, throws, and final smash. One criticism is that his specials are a bit convoluted and maybe it can do with fewer moves but aside from that, it's perfect.

JudgeHeihachi · May 30, 2020

osby said:
I loved it. You've obviously put a lot of thought and effort into imagining how Heihachi can work in Smash and it shows. Give my thanks to the contributions, they've done a great job, too. Especially those pictures.

As for the moveset, it's pretty unique and full of personality. I particularly enjoyed the tilts, smash attacks, throws, and final smash. One criticism is that his specials are a bit convoluted and maybe it can do with fewer moves but aside from that, it's perfect.

Thanks! Glad you liked it! Yeah it took quite some time, haha.
Yes, I can totally understand that the Side and Down Specials would feel confusing and overwhelming at first but I can guarantee that during gameplay itself they would feel a lot more naturally flowing as they aren't really that complex or "technical".

SmashChu · May 30, 2020

MrMcNuts said:
People get to hell bent on the whole "Smash is a Japanese game!!!" I won't deny western Characters can have a harder time getting in if they're not as big in Japan, but I doubt that it's a death sentence, and I'm certain we'll get a "more known outside of Japan" character eventually, whether it's this game or a future smash title

So far, the only western characters to get into Smash have been ones Nintendo published, and more explicitly were made by Retro Studio or Rare. A lot of the times, the characters that have been popular in the West but not Japan were owned by Nintendo: namely Little Mac and Ridley. In Banjo's case, a big thing that helped him is he was published in Japan and by Nintendo, so the Japanese were more familiar with him and Nintendo probably had a better gauge on the character. Otherwise, it's fair to say that a character being western made might as well be a death sentence.

The issue is quite simple. Sakurai is Japanese, and Nintendo is made up of Japanese employees. So when it comes to adding character, especially the ones they need to license, they won't be thinking about those characters that are unknown in Japan. Take DOOM. It's an iconic game in the United States. But in Japan, it's virtually unheard of. PC games, in general, are niche in Japan where they aren't in the US. So DOOM and other Id Software games aren't memorable to them. So when they think about adding so many licensed characters, DOOM isn't going to jump out at them.

Here's a better example. Startropics was made by Nintendo in Japan but never released over there (it was made specifically for the US and Europe). The game has never had a trophy, doesn't have spirits, and doesn't have any music. This is a Nintendo owned series that they made. All in all, I think it's fair to consider the changes of a western characters are pretty low. Now I'll go back to hibernating.

Thewafflemaker2000 · May 30, 2020

Putting my wishlist aside these are the characters I can make a the safest bet on. at least one of them will be added

1. Rayman. I admit I want this character but recently ubisoft renewed raymans ip. so it could be for a new rayman game and rayman in smash could be promotion
2. Pokemon rep. Not excited

3. Minecraft steve. I see him in king k rool’s, Ridley’s and banjo kazooie’s place in polls and hes very iconic of a gaming era such as pacman and mario. his cube body fits him right in as a unque identy in ssb
4. Sora. Polls. Popular in japan. I wouldn’t doubt that we could see mickey, donald and, goofy since sora’s ip holder is Disney anyway. He could also be the bridge to having more kh games on switch, ideally kh 1&2
5. Crash bandicoot. Polls, I have no real attachment to this character

1 thing I should of considered more is characters popular in japan

Dinoman96 · May 30, 2020

The funny thing is that Banjo and K. Rool feel kinda like the only "true" western characters in Smash.

Like yes, Diddy and Dark Samus should count, but when you think about it they're just deriatives of older Nintendo characters. Dark Samus is obviously just a palette swap of Samus, but Diddy in a lot of ways is basically just a rebooted Donkey Kong Jr...that was Rare's original intention, before Nintendo interveined and told them to either change the design back or make it an all new character, which Rare went ahead with.

Diddy pretty much ended up replacing Jr. full time anyways, so yeah.

Lionfranky · May 30, 2020

SmashChu said:
So far, the only western characters to get into Smash have been ones Nintendo published, and more explicitly were made by Retro Studio or Rare. A lot of the times, the characters that have been popular in the West but not Japan were owned by Nintendo: namely Little Mac and Ridley. In Banjo's case, a big thing that helped him is he was published in Japan and by Nintendo, so the Japanese were more familiar with him and Nintendo probably had a better gauge on the character. Otherwise, it's fair to say that a character being western made might as well be a death sentence.

The issue is quite simple. Sakurai is Japanese, and Nintendo is made up of Japanese employees. So when it comes to adding character, especially the ones they need to license, they won't be thinking about those characters that are unknown in Japan. Take DOOM. It's an iconic game in the United States. But in Japan, it's virtually unheard of. PC games, in general, are niche in Japan where they aren't in the US. So DOOM and other Id Software games aren't memorable to them. So when they think about adding so many licensed characters, DOOM isn't going to jump out at them.

Here's a better example. Startropics was made by Nintendo in Japan but never released over there (it was made specifically for the US and Europe). The game has never had a trophy, doesn't have spirits, and doesn't have any music. This is a Nintendo owned series that they made. All in all, I think it's fair to consider the changes of a western characters are pretty low. Now I'll go back to hibernating.

Bandai Namco managed to get western characters, and they are smaller company than Nintendo. I'm pretty sure not every western character added to their games had Japanese market issue covered. If Namco could do it, why not Nintendo?

Droodle · May 30, 2020

The promotion thread found this, hints at ~~Springman~~ (but again, not officially confirmed until it is official).

EDIT: Deleted the picture, because the missing amiibo is Squirtle.

Ramen Tengoku · May 30, 2020

Droodle said:
The promotion thread found this, hints at Springman (but again, not officially confirmed until it is official).
View attachment 273216

We already scrutinized it in the ARMS thresd

Thing's been up since last year and it's presumed to be a messed up entry for Squirtle

Droodle · May 30, 2020

Smashing Ramen said:
We already scrutinized it in the ARMS thresd

Thing's been up since last year and it's presumed to be Squirtle

It could also be Terry, so yeah take it with a HUGE grain of salt. It's likely unrelated to Springman.

Digital Hazard · May 30, 2020

Droodle said:
It could also be Terry, so yeah take it with a HUGE grain of salt. It's likely unrelated to Springman.

Why would we get Terry first when we have yet to get Joker, Hero and Banjo & Kazooie?

Mushroomguy12 · May 30, 2020

Dinoman96 said:
The funny thing is that Banjo and K. Rool feel kinda like the only "true" western characters in Smash.

Like yes, Diddy and Dark Samus should count, but when you think about it they're just deriatives of older Nintendo characters. Dark Samus is obviously just a palette swap of Samus, but Diddy in a lot of ways is basically just a rebooted Donkey Kong Jr...that was Rare's original intention, before Nintendo interveined and told them to either change the design back or make it an all new character, which Rare went ahead with.

View attachment 273212

Diddy pretty much ended up replacing Jr. full time anyways, so yeah.

So which category would other Rare characters like Dixie and Krystal fall in this, then?

Droodle · May 30, 2020

Digital Hazard said:
Why would we get Terry first when we have yet to get Joker, Hero and Banjo & Kazooie?

I'm not really experienced in the Smash amiibo scene, but isn't it possible that the next wave consists of the DLC characters? Also yeah, it's definitely Squirtle after reading up on it.

SNEKeater · May 30, 2020

JudgeHeihachi said:
If anyone is interested to read it, I created a moveset for Heihachi to show people who are unfamiliar with him how he could work in Smash. It features detailed descriptions and custom artworks of each moves and also features a stage explanation, how I would envision a trailer for him and also the music selection that would come with him. For anyone interested you can take a look at it here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uIvUZRWC5dajoyiJ6bq7q2rQhQcRdqky/view?usp=sharing

First off I’d like to thank everyone who helped me with the process of creating this moveset:
All art courtesy of DeZApurified , without whom this moveset would have looked a whole lot emptier and who put a lot of effort into drawing so many moves to make this moveset come to life.
Winturwulf, who helped me with a lot of decisions to find the best way to translate Tekken gameplay into Smash.
Ravio-of-Lorule for giving me his moveset template.
All three from GameFAQs
Also @Zakhara who came up with the idea of using Heihachi’s Crouch Dash as a Side Special.

Alright. Most of the important stuff has already been said in the moveset document.
Also of note is that I think both his older and younger self would be included as alts.
I’ll post the links for the music here. I’m not saying Tekken should have these many tracks in Smash which would rival SNK’s amount of music, but this is a list of fan favorites from each game that I would list up if I were in Sakurai’s position so Namco can decide on which songs would get permission to use for Smash. I also tried to include popular songs from some other Namco franchises too so here’s the list:
Tekken 6 – Dist Thins Out (Character Select) This is the only song I’m confident of to be included as it was already shown alongside Heihachi’s Smash 4 costume https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tbmyL4-Iak
Victory Theme: from 0:22 to the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iwEudE2Va4 (click to expand)

- Tekken 1 – Night in Chicago / Tekken 2 – It Makes Me Higher (Lee) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHtak4eM7sw
- Tekken 1 – Fiji Philippines / Tekken 2 – Roger / TTT2 – Paraiso Mix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rECfSWUAwoA
- Tekken 2 – Emotionless Passion (Kazuya) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya8Wf26k47M
- Tekken 2 – Be in the Mirror (Devil) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r9VFQ8947I
- Tekken 2 – Wild Beast Father (King) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlu4F9BbCUU
- Tekken 2 – Mechanized Space Ninja (Yoshimitsu) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_X_1CPOOJo
- Tekken 2 – Wandering Female Fighter (Nina) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjW0qqvg-nk
- Tekken 2 – Hot Blooded Martial Artist (Paul) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLRi7jl_UT0
- Tekken 2 – Black Winter Sky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZvslu_Blzs
- Tekken 3 – Heihachi Mishima https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLMbN5XXKgQ
- Tekken 3 – Jin Kazama / TTT2 – Far East Mix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcLPL8cPQ-8
- Tekken 3 – Nina Williams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJyiNp6WSQA
- Tekken 3 – Lei Wulong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkCMQ9AIvKo
- Tekken 3 – Hwoarang https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFnD4di3hA8
- Tekken 3 – Eddy Gordo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jshb0jEi_yo
- Tekken 3 – Forest Law https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN8RsUmCejo
- Tekken Tag Tournament – Staff Roll https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4E8hnfKg3g
- Tekken Tag Tournament – Xiaoyou https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzZg177mgIA
- Tekken 4 – The Inner Shrine (Hon-Maru) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjr1RpH2Bl4
- Tekken 4 – Bit Crusher (Shinjuku) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgf37ERwQMI
- Tekken 4 – Touch and Go (Airport) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzI4oEDp-10
- Tekken 4 – Kitsch (Beach Stage) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s60QcKHjK8
- Tekken 4 – Nothingness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaH0QtmL8eY
- Tekken 4 – The Strongest Iron Arena (Arena) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI4ZLeHg2uc
- Tekken 5 – To Those Who go to Heaven (Dragon’s Nest) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boUOVWaFF3g
- Tekken 5 – Moonlit Wilderness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClvzNSejzXw
- Tekken 5 – Antares (Cathedral) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzkVqfUq_WA
- Tekken 5 – Ground Zero Funk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwvJUkCax94
- Tekken 5 – The Finalizer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ueIUnon2c
- Tekken 5 – Hall of Fate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZBqjyIGsbo
- Tekken 6 – Splashing Casino (High Roller’s Club) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBjdvxlABH0
- Tekken 6 – Arisa (Anger of the Earth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSsep9ixKKY
- Tekken 6 – Sacred Dark (Azazel’s Chamber) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWyGWXmcoU0
- Tekken 6 – Karma (Electric Fountain) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52aAY5CI0L4
- Tekken 6 – Ethno Evening (Temple Grounds) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMXn9br0oSU
- Tekken 6 – Artificial Ruins (Urban War Zone) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0fJH1ub_yM
- Tekken Tag Tournament 2 – Intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY8aW38jbjI
- Tekken Tag Tournament 2 – Plucking Tulips (Tulip Festival) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkuljv1Pv4o
- Tekken Tag Tournament 2 – Mortal Power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4GMv6zoZNQ
- Tekken 7 – Moonsiders 1st (Infinite Azure) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lvdmh0DcmA
- Tekken 7 – A - U - N 1st (Abandoned Temple) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdWENKFvPkI
- Tekken 7 – Devil Kazumi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2DcRNZM2i8
- Tekken 7 – Desperate Struggle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV1njvthutA
- Soul Calibur II – History Unfolds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLx9H_ueaqY
- Soul Calibur II – Raise Thy Sword https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ofMuyX_y9U
- Soul Calibur II – Hellfire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtsY9d7mHNQ
- Tales of Symphonia – Like a Glint of Light https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubGH41sjuI0
- Tales of Symphonia – Fighting of the Spirit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCi9EoWz32A
- The Tower of Druaga – Main Theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHR8ZN4HW4Y

I didn’t include any spirits as I don’t care that much about them. Main characters like Jin, Kazuya and Nina should definitely be included, but none of the bosses as I explicitly included them in the stage so they wouldn’t also take away spirit slots from other characters in the game as they already have a designated role.I also did not include any Mii Costumes as I didn’t want to open yet another can of worms.

So that’s basically all. Comments, critical opinions and every other kind of feedback is appreciated.

I really like this. I've really enjoyed the moveset you and the others designed. Great work!

Also the music selection is great. Jin's theme from Tekken 3 should absolutely come with Heihachi, that song was one of my faves from 3.
It would be really cool if they managed to get songs from Soul Calibur or Tales of as well, but that sounds unlikely.

Dark Bagel · May 30, 2020

Dinoman96 said:
The funny thing is that Banjo and K. Rool feel kinda like the only "true" western characters in Smash.

Like yes, Diddy and Dark Samus should count, but when you think about it they're just deriatives of older Nintendo characters. Dark Samus is obviously just a palette swap of Samus, but Diddy in a lot of ways is basically just a rebooted Donkey Kong Jr...that was Rare's original intention, before Nintendo interveined and told them to either change the design back or make it an all new character, which Rare went ahead with.

View attachment 273212

Diddy pretty much ended up replacing Jr. full time anyways, so yeah.

A good way to pick apart a majority of the true-blue westerners in the roster is by determining how funny their expressions are when they get hurt.

That's bona fide western cartoon slapstick, right there.

JudgeHeihachi · May 30, 2020

SNEKeater said:
I really like this. I've really enjoyed the moveset you and the others designed. Great work!

Also the music selection is great. Jin's theme from Tekken 3 should absolutely come with Heihachi, that song was one of my faves from 3.
It would be really cool if they managed to get songs from Soul Calibur or Tales of as well, but that sounds unlikely.

Thank you! Nice that you enjoyed it!
Yes sadly a music section like Terry's with so many songs from many different franchises will most likely remain as an exception. Namco music also is probably more expensive to license that many tracks

Dinoman96 · May 30, 2020

Mushroomguy12 said:
So which category would other Rare characters like Dixie and Krystal fall in this, then?

Krystal would fall under fully western, I suppose. Dixie is kinda weird because her design is essentially a female variant of Diddy with a ponytail.

Diddy Kong · May 30, 2020

Mushroomguy12 said:
So which category would other Rare characters like Dixie and Krystal fall in this, then?

As Rare / western created characters just like Diddy and Dark Samus should be. Diddy is more than a reskinned DK Jr., he was made his own character after the "design change" for DK Jr. wasn't approved by Nintendo, who said the design for Diddy should be a new character. Dark Samus is a clone of Samus yes, but the way it behaves isn't anything like Samus, neither is the design and abilities, unlike say, SA-X.

Digital Hazard · May 30, 2020

Droodle said:
I'm not really experienced in the Smash amiibo scene, but isn't it possible that the next wave consists of the DLC characters? Also yeah, it's definitely Squirtle after reading up on it.

Checking SmashWiki, the entire base roster was released first, just with Piranha Plant along it.

Only the Fighters Pass characters are left, imo it'd make sense to release them in waves of 3 or 4, but it'll likely be in release order.

Looking at Smash 4 amiibo releases, they were launched in order of the character released.

Dinoman96 · May 30, 2020

Donkey Kong and Little Mac both fall under an interesting category in that they're both Japanese characters that were given redesigns by western studios, and said designs are utilized in Smash Bros.

Ridley can fall under this too...Meta Ridley, that is.

Cosmic77 · May 30, 2020

Droodle said:
I'm not really experienced in the Smash amiibo scene, but isn't it possible that the next wave consists of the DLC characters?

If you're referring to new amiibo, then it'd have to be DLC characters. Everyone else already has an amiibo. The order they're released should be identical to the order they were revealed.

If you're referring to all amiibo including reprints, then it's hard to say. Sometimes amiibo take a lot longer than we expect. We didn't get Cloud, Corrin, and Bayo until a year and five months after Smash 4's DLC ended. Honestly, we probably should've gotten the release date for Joker and Hero's amiibo by now.

Megadoomer · May 30, 2020

Out of curiosity, let's say that the ARMS character is Max Brass, or Dr. Coyle, or Helix, or someone whose inclusion heavily implies that being an assist trophy or a spirit is enough to disqualify someone from DLC. What would your ideal Fighters Pass 2 look like in that case?

This would be mine:

https://i.imgur.com/CLmvNHf.png

Admittedly, it doesn't seem overly likely for a variety of reasons (given how rarely Smash has added characters from M-rated games (

), it seems unlikely that they're going to more-than-double that amount), but it's my ideal list, not an attempt at a prediction. (because I'm well aware that I'd be way off if I tried predicting, considering that I thought Erdrick would be the default if we got a Dragon Quest hero, that Banjo and Kazooie were never going to happen despite wanting them to be in Smash since the first Smash game came out, and that we wouldn't get Terry until further down the line until the Nintendo of Europe leak happened)

I put Doomguy last because, ideally, the development team would have learned to not save a combo-heavy character like Dante or 2B until the end so there's more time to balance them. (the order of the others doesn't particularly matter)

Admittedly, I haven't played much of Tekken or Nier Automata, but it seems like those characters have a ton of material to work with for moves, on top of everything else that they'd bring to Smash Bros (stages, music, spirits - the whole shebang). Heihachi's got a ton of history behind him, and it's pretty rare (in games, at least) for a villain to be the face of the franchise.

As for 2B, I'm sure some will say that she doesn't have a presence on Nintendo consoles, but considering that characters like Cloud and Joker had a presence on Nintendo consoles that could generously be called "minimal" at the time of their announcement (Cloud had a few cameos, mostly in Kingdom Hearts games, and Joker had a 3DS spin-off that released in Japan about a week before his announcement), I doubt that would be an issue. (plus, the movesets made by

Venus of the Desert Bloom for 2B and

JudgeHeihachi for Heihachi helped to convince me, or at least made it much easier for me to picture them in Smash)

Michael the Spikester · May 30, 2020

Really if anything Banjo is the only "true" western rep in the game supposedly so far.

With Diddy and King K. Rool, despite being created by western developers still originates from an franchise in Japan, the same with Dark Samus.

MrElectroG64 · May 30, 2020

whelp, not really sure where else to post this, so I'm once again posting a moveset I've made in the general newcomers thread. This time I've made one for the Stork from the Yoshi series. This is basically a joke character for the Yoshi series that I thought of a long time ago that I decided to just now put into a moveset, since I had forgotten about it until a few days ago.

Here's a link to it elsewhere to make it a little easier to read, as usual: https://www.flickr.com/photos/184893183@N07/49952742497/in/dateposted-public/

Deleted member · May 30, 2020

Since we seem to be plugging our fan made movesets, I may as well plug mine's for Pauline too:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-4nRKjK8clekvVX-O5GvGeBFVWd0KizlUrCyRW6Xw5Q/edit?usp=drivesdk

Quite an unlikely character for Ultimate at the moment, yet one who I would love to see in playable and sadly many people tend to missunderstand.

I originally made this moveset as a reply to many people at Discord saying Pauline lacked any moveset potential, just to prove them the character does actually have sources to work out moves from.

Flyboy · May 30, 2020

Megadoomer said:
Out of curiosity, let's say that the ARMS character is Max Brass, or Dr. Coyle, or Helix, or someone whose inclusion heavily implies that being an assist trophy or a spirit is enough to disqualify someone from DLC. What would your ideal Fighters Pass 2 look like in that case?

This would be mine:

https://i.imgur.com/CLmvNHf.png

Admittedly, it doesn't seem overly likely for a variety of reasons (given how rarely Smash has added characters from M-rated games (), it seems unlikely that they're going to more-than-double that amount), but it's my ideal list, not an attempt at a prediction. (because I'm well aware that I'd be way off if I tried predicting, considering that I thought Erdrick would be the default if we got a Dragon Quest hero, that Banjo and Kazooie were never going to happen despite wanting them to be in Smash since the first Smash game came out, and that we wouldn't get Terry until further down the line until the Nintendo of Europe leak happened)

I put Doomguy last because, ideally, the development team would have learned to not save a combo-heavy character like Dante or 2B until the end so there's more time to balance them. (the order of the others doesn't particularly matter)

Admittedly, I haven't played much of Tekken or Nier Automata, but it seems like those characters have a ton of material to work with for moves, on top of everything else that they'd bring to Smash Bros (stages, music, spirits - the whole shebang). Heihachi's got a ton of history behind him, and it's pretty rare (in games, at least) for a villain to be the face of the franchise.

As for 2B, I'm sure some will say that she doesn't have a presence on Nintendo consoles, but considering that characters like Cloud and Joker had a presence on Nintendo consoles that could generously be called "minimal" at the time of their announcement (Cloud had a few cameos, mostly in Kingdom Hearts games, and Joker had a 3DS spin-off that released in Japan about a week before his announcement), I doubt that would be an issue. (plus, the movesets made by Venus of the Desert Bloom for 2B and JudgeHeihachi for Heihachi helped to convince me, or at least made it much easier for me to picture them in Smash)

This is an incredible lineup for me. I can't even think of a change I'd make - Travis is my most-wanted, 2B my next big pipe dream, and Heihachi another character I really want (which by the way everyone should check out JudgeHeihachi's moveset, it's amazing!). I love Capcom so while Dante isn't my most-wanted Capcom character (that'd be Phoenix) he's probably my second choice. Dr. Coyle is the dream ARMS rep for me. As for Doom Guy, he's probably the one I have the least attachment towards but who could I really ask for after being lucky enough to get Travis AND 2B?!

Great pass.

Jomosensual · May 30, 2020

Goombaic said:
Eh, I haven't shared this one here so here you go, Hollow Knight pack.

Great game with great characters and a great soundtrack, what more is there to say about this little guy (other than the fact that Silksong is taking very long to come out)?

Mii costume is a possibility, but I don't want a lanky Knight and much less for the Hollow Knight Cuphead to become a thing.

Almost spit take at the idea of Zote doing Lifelight

JudgeHeihachi · May 30, 2020

Megadoomer said:
Out of curiosity, let's say that the ARMS character is Max Brass, or Dr. Coyle, or Helix, or someone whose inclusion heavily implies that being an assist trophy or a spirit is enough to disqualify someone from DLC. What would your ideal Fighters Pass 2 look like in that case?

This would be mine:

https://i.imgur.com/CLmvNHf.png

Admittedly, it doesn't seem overly likely for a variety of reasons (given how rarely Smash has added characters from M-rated games (), it seems unlikely that they're going to more-than-double that amount), but it's my ideal list, not an attempt at a prediction. (because I'm well aware that I'd be way off if I tried predicting, considering that I thought Erdrick would be the default if we got a Dragon Quest hero, that Banjo and Kazooie were never going to happen despite wanting them to be in Smash since the first Smash game came out, and that we wouldn't get Terry until further down the line until the Nintendo of Europe leak happened)

I put Doomguy last because, ideally, the development team would have learned to not save a combo-heavy character like Dante or 2B until the end so there's more time to balance them. (the order of the others doesn't particularly matter)

Admittedly, I haven't played much of Tekken or Nier Automata, but it seems like those characters have a ton of material to work with for moves, on top of everything else that they'd bring to Smash Bros (stages, music, spirits - the whole shebang). Heihachi's got a ton of history behind him, and it's pretty rare (in games, at least) for a villain to be the face of the franchise.

As for 2B, I'm sure some will say that she doesn't have a presence on Nintendo consoles, but considering that characters like Cloud and Joker had a presence on Nintendo consoles that could generously be called "minimal" at the time of their announcement (Cloud had a few cameos, mostly in Kingdom Hearts games, and Joker had a 3DS spin-off that released in Japan about a week before his announcement), I doubt that would be an issue. (plus, the movesets made by Venus of the Desert Bloom for 2B and JudgeHeihachi for Heihachi helped to convince me, or at least made it much easier for me to picture them in Smash)

I'm really happy you liked the moveset so much that you included Heihachi in your Fighters Pass! Dante, Travis and Doomguy are cool choices too. I would personally prefer Master Chief over Doomguy but anything will do to get this unrepped genre into Smash and I can understand the impact and history of Doom. I haven't played Nier Automata yet but I'm planning in doing so in the future as it gained a lot of praise.
Obviously as Heihachi is my most wanted he'd be in my personal pass top.
I'd take Dante too for my Dream Fighters Pass. Actually I would prefer Jill or Leon over him but that is very unlikely to happen due to the spirit event in November so I'll take Dante.
Ryu Hayabusa is my second most wanted so he'd be in the pass too.
Master Chief would be another one.
I'm not so sure who I would take as the last one but out of personal bias and nostalgia probably Lara Croft as a Square rep.

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