Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[NonSpecificGuy]

In hindsight, the Takamaru hype was really just the result of the Smash fandom going by "patterns" and trying to find the next Pit (i.e a forgotten NES era character to be ressurected by Smash).

Piranha Plant pretty much buried the notion of "retro characters" (i.e a character specifically put in for the sake of having a forgotten/old character), which really were never much of a thing outside of Ice Climbers in Melee.

Takamaru is still cool as **** and one of the only characters I still actively want from Nintendo. Him, Mike Jones, and Isaac are basically it.

 

[Cosmic77]

Takamaru is cool, but I do sort of agree with Sakurai's concerns about the character not being well-known outside Japan.

We have and orginally . To be honest, I don't think we should continue the pattern of adding a retro character in each Smash for much longer. I'd add one, maybe two more like Balloon Fighter or Excitebiker, then I'd move on.

 

[pinshadow]

Geno is in this weird state where more than pretty much every other character he's defined just as much, if not more so, by the requests for him to be in Smash than anything about the character himself. Seriously, you can't really talk about Super Mario RPG without mentioning or having someone bring up "Mr.Not In Smash" himself as such. He's pretty much become the face of the game somehow, even if you know absolutely nothing about Mario RPG, you know it's the game he's from. This isn't anything new by the way, while this has certainly become more prevalent over the years I remember even back in the first half of the 2010's, way before Geno ever officially got acknowledged, it felt like people always mentioned him as the "guy people really wanted in Brawl for some reason" when talking about SMRPG.

Pretty much the only character I can think of who fits a similar situation is Ridley, who's dismissal for being "Too Big" reached meme status to the point of being his tagline. Waluigi gets close but he's a giant meme regardless of the Smash situation surrounding him, it's just a large part of it. Every Smash Cycle certainly gets those characters as well, I'd argue Mewtwo in Smash 4, you couldn't talk about Banjo for a straight year after Ultimate got announced without someone mentioning Smash.

Of course Geno's reputation as the guy who didn't get in Brawl persisted but he really wasn't as popular in the Smash 4 days, though I'd argue that's less him being less popular than before and more just the community being bigger and a larger possible selection of characters compared to Brawl. Then the mii costume happened, people realized he actually has a shot after losing faith, then Ultimate happened, the two most persistent "never-evers" got in with Ridley and K.Rool, other fan requests and characters that got acknowledged with the Smash 4 DLC like Inkling, Chrom, Isabelle, Dark Samus, Simon, and all the veterans came back, and people start thinking "Hmmm, there is this character they went out of their way to acknowledge being highly requested last game, and straight up said they wanted to have them in Brawl yet gave no reason why they didn't make it", yet nothing happened and by this point the reputation has completely stuck and grown even more, especially after Banjo gets in, where he's pretty much the one big "never-ever" remaining besides maybe Waluigi.

I don't want to imply Geno is a bandwagon pick (mostly because I don't really see anything wrong with that anyway, isn't the entire point of Smash to introduce people to new characters and games?) but a big part of his appeal and popularity in Smash ironically comes from the fact he hasn't made it in in the first place.

 

[Shroob]

I do wonder if FP7 will get shown off in June though.


Even though ARMs is coming out in hopefully a few weeks, I feel like they probably had a trailer done before corona ****ed everything up, and if we take the Amiibo restock to mean close to how Amiibo releases used to conveniently line up with DLC drops in the past, June and September are our next restocks, one next month in the same month as ARMs, and one the same month as when Banjo dropped a mere 2 months after Hero.

 

[pinshadow]

I do wonder if FP7 will get shown off in June though.


Even though ARMs is coming out in hopefully a few weeks, I feel like they probably had a trailer done before corona ****ed everything up, and if we take the Amiibo restock to mean close to how Amiibo releases used to conveniently line up with DLC drops in the past, June and September are our next restocks, one next month in the same month as ARMs, and one the same month as when Banjo dropped a mere 2 months after Hero.

I don't think theres any way we don't see Fighter 7, Sakurai has said development on the DLC has continued smoothly, the ARMS character was already delayed to June due to gameplay issues (I think it was going to happen regardless of Corona), and there's no way they didn't plan for 7 to be at E3 before it was cancelled.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'll be a little more reserved and say the ARMS character is all we're getting.

A reveal would make sense, but there's still plenty of time between June and December 2021. There's no rush, and they could easily pull a Byleth and announce a worldwide reveal of any DLC character on any random date. They don't need E3 or a special Direct to reveal a Smash character.

 

[Shroob]

I'll be a little more reserved and say the ARMS character is all we're getting.

A reveal would make sense, but there's still plenty of time between June and December 2021. There's no rush, and they could easily pull a Byleth and announce a worldwide reveal of any DLC character on any random date. They don't need E3 or a special Direct to reveal a Smash character.

I mean, you're definitely not wrong to hedge a safe bet, but when was the last time Nintendo showed up with Smash at E3 and didn't bring at least 2?


I know E3 is canned yeah, but we also have the amiibo restocks hinting at a September drop, which would line up pretty close to how the DLC ended up last year, on top of DLC characters dropping the same month as amiibo releases in the past.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Why would that be a reason why they wouldn't add a character? They've added regionally popular characters before, there's not really any difference between only being popular in Japan and only being popular anywhere else unless the country is much smaller.

People get to hell bent on the whole "Smash is a Japanese game!!!" I won't deny western Characters can have a harder time getting in if they're not as big in Japan, but I doubt that it's a death sentence, and I'm certain we'll get a "more known outside of Japan" character eventually, whether it's this game or a future smash title

 

[Goombaic]

Eh, I haven't shared this one here so here you go, Hollow Knight pack.

Spoiler: Or "The Knight" or "Little Ghost," doesn't matter, we all know who we're referring to here.

Great game with great characters and a great soundtrack, what more is there to say about this little guy (other than the fact that Silksong is taking very long to come out)?

Mii costume is a possibility, but I don't want a lanky Knight and much less for the Hollow Knight Cuphead to become a thing.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Takamaru is still cool as **** and one of the only characters I still actively want from Nintendo.

It's just, like...there's probably, like a dozen better samurai characters in gaming than him.

 

[Knight Dude]

Do you know who else is voiced by someone named Sakurai? That's right.

Spoiler: He's in

View attachment 273114

AND GUESS WHO ELSE HE VOICES. DO YOU KNOW?!

Spoiler: The Main Man Himself

YOU KNOW THE VIBRATIONS! Let's go.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We have and orginally . To be honest, I don't think we should continue the pattern of adding a retro character in each Smash for much longer. I'd add one, maybe two more like Balloon Fighter or Excitebiker, then I'd move on.

Just transform it into an oddball character from a while back that you wouldn't add otherwise. They may not be retro, but the likes of Isaac or Chibi-Robo would be cool.

 

[Goombaic]

It's just, like...there's probably, like a dozen better samurai characters in gaming than him.

Are there that many notable samurai characters? The only ones I can name off the top of my head right now that aren't Takamaru are Mitsurugi, Haohmaru (and I guess some other Samurai Showdown characters), and a Samurai Warriors character.

 

[Shroob]

Are there that many notable samurai characters? The only ones I can name off the top of my head right now that aren't Takamaru are Mitsurugi, Haohmaru (and I guess some other Samurai Showdown characters), and a Samurai Warriors character.

Honestly, I can't name that many SAMURAI. Ninja? Oh yeah, there's a ton of 'em, but Samurai are honestly something that's honest to god not that touched on often.

 

[Perkilator]

Are there that many notable samurai characters? The only ones I can name off the top of my head right now that aren't Takamaru are Mitsurugi, Haohmaru (and I guess some other Samurai Showdown characters), and a Samurai Warriors character.

Sakura Shinguji from Sakura Wars, if that counts (though only because she uses a mech when she's not slashing away with her already powerful sword on foot* while Takamaru uses more traditional Japanese weapons and magic).

*Not joking, Sakura's sword is said to cut entire DROPLETS of water in one slice. She's THAT dedicated to training with that thing. Power-wise? Well, if THIS video doesn't sell you on a potential moveset:

...then the first cutscene of the original Sakura Wars (specifically, 1:03 of this video) should convince you of her strength OUTSIDE her mech:

Yeah, she cut a demonic robot in HALF without much of a problem.

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm sure there's a ton of Samurai characters, but as far as major/iconic ones, I would say Mitsurugi and Haohmaru are the only ones I can think off of the top of my head. Though the Last Blade and SamSho in general has many characters that fall into the character type. Baiken's there too, but I wouldn't call her as iconic as Sol, and Sol's not the most well known fighting game character. I guess Kenshi from MK might count, but he ain't as popular as Scorp or SubZ.

Meanwhile, Ninjas got both traditional and weirder takes on them throughout all of gaming. They have Hayabusa, Joe Musashi, Strider, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Sektor, Cyrax, Kitana, Mileena, Yoshimitsu, Master Raven, Raven, Vega, Ibuki, Guy, Maki, Taki. Even Shadow Man, Marino, Greninja, Sheik, Espio and ****ING ZOOL!

 

[TechPowah]

Papa Genos: Tansut said the Neku talk isn't for Smash, and I already figured that anyway

also Papa Genos: let's give the Neku video a big fat Smash logo in the center, and also have him stand next to fighter pass 2

ok

 

[Droodle]

I do wonder if FP7 will get shown off in June though.


Even though ARMs is coming out in hopefully a few weeks, I feel like they probably had a trailer done before corona ****ed everything up, and if we take the Amiibo restock to mean close to how Amiibo releases used to conveniently line up with DLC drops in the past, June and September are our next restocks, one next month in the same month as ARMs, and one the same month as when Banjo dropped a mere 2 months after Hero.

Chances are that character 7 will be shown off in June. That said, it's totally possible we don't see them in the (presumable) ARMS presentation; especially if the presentation ends up being early in the month. So far none of the Sakurai presentations have revealed anything beyond the fighter in focus (Banjo-Kazooie did showcase Terry but he was revealed in the direct not the presentation).

It's totally possible we end up seeing the ARMS presentation with no #7; and then 1-2 weeks later, they reveal character 7 entirely separately.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Papa Genos: Tansut said the Neku talk isn't for Smash, and I already figured that anyway

also Papa Genos: let's give the Neku video a big fat Smash logo in the center, and also have him stand next to fighter pass 2

ok

He's a clickbait youtuber, what do you expect? He rushed to get a video out on it and went "Oopsy whoopsy! Tansut clarified he didn't mean Neku in Smash!" after he made the video, which was a day after Tansut said it wasn't Smash related

 

[TechPowah]

I mean yeah of course, but also
I dunno I just want to expect better I guess

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean yeah of course, but also
I dunno I just want to expect better I guess

Considering how he deflected criticism for his Byleth reaction by going "This was a joke I prepared for held up for an entire hour pls no be mad" a day or two after the video got uploaded, I think you're expecting too much

 

[Knight Dude]

Papa Genos: Tansut said the Neku talk isn't for Smash, and I already figured that anyway

also Papa Genos: let's give the Neku video a big fat Smash logo in the center, and also have him stand next to fighter pass 2

ok

It's the Youtube clickbait game. But I don't watch his videos so I can't say much else on that.

 

[Calane]

It's just, like...there's probably, like a dozen better samurai characters in gaming than him.

My dude traveled on foot while constantly being attacked by ninja (and whatever else) non-stop, continually deflected projectiles from all directions, defeated a giant living statue, and killed an alien monster all by himself. Takamaru's one of the coolest gaming samurai around (and I'd love for his game to be remade someday).

Besides, what other samurai can turn invisible or throw three windmill swords with one hand? Probably none!

...I still get a little upset that he didn't (and probably never will) make it in as a playable fighter.

 

[MeteoRain]

I'm sure there's a ton of Samurai characters, but as far as major/iconic ones, I would say Mitsurugi and Haohmaru are the only ones I can think off of the top of my head. Though the Last Blade and SamSho in general has many characters that fall into the character type. Baiken's there too, but I wouldn't call her as iconic as Sol, and Sol's not the most well known fighting game character. I guess Kenshi from MK might count, but he ain't as popular as Scorp or SubZ.

Meanwhile, Ninjas got both traditional and weirder takes on them throughout all of gaming. They have Hayabusa, Joe Musashi, Strider, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Sektor, Cyrax, Kitana, Mileena, Yoshimitsu, Master Raven, Raven, Vega, Ibuki, Guy, Maki, Taki. Even Shadow Man, Marino, Greninja, Sheik, Espio and ****ING ZOOL!

Yoshi was a ninja?

I could've sworn Soul Calibur 3 lumped him with Mitsurugi as a Samurai class. Not to mention his signature seppuku.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Fire Emblem has a number of samurai and samurai-like myrmidons/swordmasters.

...What? Someone had to say it.

Apologizing in advance in case this turns into another FE argument.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly, I can't name that many SAMURAI. Ninja? Oh yeah, there's a ton of 'em, but Samurai are honestly something that's honest to god not that touched on often.

Uh, I believe you're forgetting the most famous samurai of all, one Samurai Goroh!

 

[Ben Holt]

Uh, I believe you're forgetting the most famous samurai of all, one Samurai Goroh!

I never knew if Samurai Goroh was a villain like Bowser, K. Rool, and Ridley, or just a rival like Wario and Meta Knight.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I never knew if Samurai Goroh was a villain like Bowser, K. Rool, and Ridley, or just a rival like Wario and Meta Knight.

Wolf O'Donnell is probably the closest analog.

 

[Ben Holt]

Wolf O'Donnell is probably the closest analog.

So Villain.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yoshi was a ninja?

I could've sworn Soul Calibur 3 lumped him with Mitsurugi as a Samurai class. Not to mention his signature seppuku.

Yeah, but it's not like that's the be all and end all of everything. There are a few weapons that kinda don't match up - like the giant Zweihänder for Pirates. I don't know about anyone else, but if I was fighting on a ship, a sword the size and weight of my body would not be my first, second, or even fifteenth choice. Setsuka's also classes as a Ninja, even though she's not in lore. Not to mention they also classed both Xianghua and Voldo as 'Dancers.' Xiang's definitely got some dance-y moves, but that's definitely a Chinese sword stance, while Voldo is into ...something... that's too risqué for most burlesque shows.

If I remember my lore though, Yoshi leads a clan of thieves, so he kinda straddles the line in the first place.

...SC3 was a great game. Too bad it was PS3 exclusive. And speaking of Setsuka, when are we getting the next DLC character for SCVI announced?

 

[DarthEnderX]

So Villain.

Well, he is a criminal motivated mostly by a desire for wealth and glory(and his rivalry with Captain Falcon). But he's not like, serving some kind of dark malevolent entity or anything. So, not a villain the way, say, Ridley or Black Shadow are villains.

 

[Glaciacott]

Are there that many notable samurai characters? The only ones I can name off the top of my head right now that aren't Takamaru are Mitsurugi, Haohmaru (and I guess some other Samurai Showdown characters), and a Samurai Warriors character.

I have to bring up the best

 

[Ben Holt]

Well, he is a criminal motivated mostly by a desire for wealth and glory(and his rivalry with Captain Falcon). But he's not like, serving some kind of dark malevolent entity or anything. So, not a villain the way, say, Ridley is a villain.

Oh. So more like Wario.

 

[Jerry98]

Mii costume is a possibility, but I don't want a lanky Knight and much less for the Hollow Knight Cuphead to become a thing.

Totally agree!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I don't think it matters whether Geno's popularity (or any character in general) increases or decreases throughout the years. The most important thing to note is that Geno has made an impact in Smash Bros with the Mii costume in Smash 4 and as a legendary Spirit in Ultimate. Whether this means he'll get in as a fighter is irrelevant.

Take the Smash 2 poll for example. Banjo & Kazooie reached 8th place in the poll so they've already marked their impact within Smash Bros as far back as the early 2000's. We can tell because Sakurai mentioned once that he would have added them as a trophy back in Melee I believe during the Banjo & Kazooie reveal segment of his famitsu column, correct me if I'm wrong.

Original here: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult2.html

So Geno getting both a Mii Costume and a Spirit shows how far fan demand has gone so we know how popular Geno is just by how Sakurai and Nintendo have acknowledged it.

How we feeling on Rayman's chances? I feel like Rayman has almost as much momentum going into E3 as Banjo did last year (minus the insider buzz), but not nearly the same amount of hype

If he gets in then we'll most likely see fighter pass volume 2 belong to promotions.

What are your opinions on spirits becoming fighters? I wanna see what other people think on this topic.

I think a lot of people blow this topic out of proportions because it just seems like they believe every spirit that is wanted will get promoted. Never mind that there is a chance that a hypothetical Spring man could be the only promotion we see but we've only got 6 slots for characters so even if the pass is only for fighter promotion, not everyone's most wanted assist trophy/spirit promotion will make it in.

 

[Phoenixio]

Fire Emblem has a number of samurai and samurai-like myrmidons/swordmasters.

...What? Someone had to say it.

Apologizing in advance in case this turns into another FE argument.

And they'd be so cool too... The Blazing Blade / Sacred Stones swordmasters had such badass critical hits too:

 

[Knight Dude]

Yoshi was a ninja?

I could've sworn Soul Calibur 3 lumped him with Mitsurugi as a Samurai class. Not to mention his signature seppuku.

He calls himself a ninja, being the leader of the Manji clan. Though I'm more so referring to Tekken's Yoshimitsu. He also does crafty Ninja stuff, namely teleportation and how he as poison breath, something a more "noble" Samurai probably wouldn't do.

You can even look at Yoshimitsu's rival fight with Raven in Tekken 5 for this. Raven thinks Yoshimitsu doesn't have the attitude for a Ninja since he's a fairly comical dude.

 

[Will]

Take the Smash 2 poll for example. Banjo & Kazooie reached 8th place in the poll so they've already marked their impact within Smash Bros as far back as the early 2000's. We can tell because Sakurai mentioned once that he would have added them as a trophy back in Melee I believe during the Banjo & Kazooie reveal segment of his famitsu column, correct me if I'm wrong.

So Geno getting both a Mii Costume and a Spirit shows how far fan demand has gone so we know how popular Geno is just by how Sakurai and Nintendo have acknowledged it.

Lugia?

****ing 17'01" Lugia? Good thing the "Too Big" memes didn't exist back then.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Well if we're talking about prominent Samurai characters in video games there's William from Nioh. There's also Samanosuke from Onimusha. I'm not sure if Raiden from MGS counts since he's a mercenary in the modern world, but he did practice Japanese swordsmanship and the samurai code so that must count for something at least.

 

[Eldrake]

Juggernaut from Dota 2 is essentially a Samurai, albeit with an unorthodox fashion sense.