Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Hinata]

How to see real dinosaurs:
1. Travel 65 million light years away from Earth
2. Look at Earth through a telescope
3. Witness dinosaurs

mamboo what the **** does that have to do with anything

 

[Trevenant]

Yeah, I remember that. Maybe that's how we can bring the Smash Ballot back...

By the way, R.I.P. Sega Heroes. It got shut down earlier this year due to Sega's partnership with the makers ending. To make matters worse, I saw people claiming it failed because it used Sega characters that WEREN'T from Sonic. Despite that being the whole point. I'm confused, too.

It was shut down? If so that's tragic. I only remember them releasing Charmy Bee a couple of months ago. The best way to commemorate it now is by adding Flicky and all it's variants as distinct skins taking up unique slots on the CSS with different movesets

 

[Hinata]

So.

If we had to guess what week we get the ARMS character reveal... When would that be?

The first week of June. That's right, we're getting the character next week, baby.

 

[Trevenant]

Whoops, sorry.
(I didn't mean to do it by accident.)

I'm confused and just thinking about how that makes sense causes my head to hurt.

In terms of the ARMS reveal, most of the Sakurai showcases happened early month so I'll optimistically say by the first 2 weeks of June until I find out I was wrong for just that, being too optimistic

 

[Ben Holt]

As long as it's before June 20th, it'll still be SPRING Man.

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

This reminds me of a song...

 

[Goombaic]

As long as it's before June 20th, it'll still be SPRING Man.

Why does the date matter for that statement?

 

[Hinata]

Why does the date matter for that statement?

Summer starts on June 20th.

Before that, it's still Spring.

 

[Perkilator]

Why does the date matter for that statement?

Because June 20th is the last day of Spring, and Summer kicks off the same day.

EDIT: 'd

Anyways, how would you react if these were the first 3 fighters of Vol. 2?

FP6: Min Min
FP7: Rayman
FP8: Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars)

Honorable mention; how would you react if FP6 was Spring Man?

 

[Ben Holt]

Honorable mention; how would you react if FP6 was Spring Man?

I'm contractually obligated to record myself eating pizza.
If it's not Spring Man, I'm contractually obligated to eat grilled cheese while "No Dogs, No Masters" plays in the background.

 

[Goombaic]

Summer starts on June 20th.

Before that, it's still Spring.

****, summer's next month? We'll be halfway through the year next month? I'M 19 WHAT.

Maybe December 2021 isn't as far as it seems.

 

[Ben Holt]

****, summer's next month? We'll be halfway through the year next month? I'M 19 WHAT.

Maybe December 2021 isn't as far as it seems.

I feel ya. I'm 25, and I was 16 just a minute ago.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm honestly kinda surprised Smash has never done DLC costumes outside the Mii Fighters before. It's basically been a standard for fighting games for almost a decade now and it would work really well for Smash. I don't think anyone would mind paying $0.99 for Ness in his pyjamas or Link in the Ancient Armour.

This needs to happen.

I have so many wants... most dealing with the Zelda series.

Spoiler: Costumes I'd like to see

: The white dress from Bayo 2
: Hyrule Warriors, Twilight Princess, The mummy from the BotW2 trailer, a costume of him in the Desert Voe gear from BotW
: The green plaid dress from the New 3DS trailer
: An actual Twilight Princess version, an actual Fierce Deity version, Ocarina of Time, the Soldier Set from BotW (maybe without the helm), Zora Armor from TP or BotW, Snowquill set from BotW, Magic Armor from TP, his Ordon Village outfit from TP (maybe the sumo one with just the pants to match Shulk's swimsuit )
: Proper Shiny version
: Mr. L
: Proper Jumpman color
: Armor
: Shadow Queen
: Rocket grunt, with proper shiny , Squad shades , and with a black rose
: Outset Island pajamas
: Twilight Princess gown, BotW royal gown, BotW prayer dress, Ocarina of Time gown, LttP Casual dress,

 

[Ben Holt]

This needs to happen.

I have so many wants... most dealing with the Zelda series.

Spoiler: Costumes I'd like to see

: The white dress from Bayo 2
: Hyrule Warriors, Twilight Princess, The mummy from the BotW2 trailer, a costume of him in the Desert Voe gear from BotW
: The green plaid dress from the New 3DS trailer
: An actual Twilight Princess version, an actual Fierce Deity version, Ocarina of Time, the Soldier Set from BotW (maybe without the helm), Zora Armor from TP or BotW, Snowquill set from BotW, Magic Armor from TP, his Ordon Village outfit from TP (maybe the sumo one with just the pants to match Shulk's swimsuit )
: Proper Shiny version
: Mr. L
: Proper Jumpman color
: Armor
: Shadow Queen
: Rocket grunt, with proper shiny , Squad shades , and with a black rose
: Outset Island pajamas
: Twilight Princess gown, BotW royal gown, BotW prayer dress, Ocarina of Time gown, LttP Casual dress,

Boy, don't even get me started on character costumes. I'd easily spend $200 to get them all.
I just want a dressup feature like in Mario Odyssey, Breath of the Wild, Splatoon 2, and Animal Crossing.

 

[N3ON]

It's wild how the one character they've chosen to give paid costumes to is arguably the least naturally popular of the entire roster.

Just imagine how much they'd make if they gave people skins they want for characters that are generally more cared about.

Seems like a baffling oversight, but I can't imagine they haven't thought about it. And yet I can't fathom why they've decided against it. The work and cost versus reward is hugely in their favour. I mean milking the fanbase for costumes is the bread and butter of so many fighters (and shooters, and mmos, etc etc), and the Smash fanbase is bigger and crazier than most.

 

[Shroob]

****, summer's next month? We'll be halfway through the year next month? I'M 19 WHAT.

Maybe December 2021 isn't as far as it seems.

Yeah I'll be 29 next month.


Enjoy your youth while it lasts, you're not getting a 2nd one

 

[Ben Holt]

Even Pikachu plays dress up in Let's Go! Pikachu.
C'mon Nintendo, I'm showing my utter, now MILK ME!!!

 

[MrMcNuts]

Because June 20th is the last day of Spring, and Summer kicks off the same day.

EDIT: 'd

Anyways, how would you react if these were the first 3 fighters of Vol. 2?

FP6: Min Min
FP7: Rayman
FP8: Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars)

Honorable mention; how would you react if FP6 was Spring Man?

I mean any group of reps with Rayman is an instant win for me obviously, but min min would be cool as well, and I'd be willing to give Sakura a shot

 

[osby]

Anyways, how would you react if these were the first 3 fighters of Vol. 2?

FP6: Min Min
FP7: Rayman
FP8: Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars)

Honorable mention; how would you react if FP6 was Spring Man?

Spring Man is actually my favorite from ARMS, so I'd prefer him over Min Min. I'd be bummed if it's her but I wouldn't complain.

Rayman certainly is a character that exists.

Sakura would be amazing but I really need to see how they handle her moveset first before making a final decision.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Because June 20th is the last day of Spring, and Summer kicks off the same day.

EDIT: 'd

Anyways, how would you react if these were the first 3 fighters of Vol. 2?

FP6: Min Min
FP7: Rayman
FP8: Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars)

Honorable mention; how would you react if FP6 was Spring Man?

Min Min would be pretty cool, Spring Man would be much better though.

Then Rayman is an okay pick.

Sakura honestly I feel is kind of a bad choice, imo too obscure and niche for Smash.

If that's the order of reveals I'd probably buy the Pass after Rayman and then kinda regret it by FP8.

 

[osby]

Sakura honestly I feel is kind of a bad choice, imo too obscure and niche for Smash.

Just to provide a reference, Sakura Wars has sold over 4.5 million copies worldwide in 2010. That's without counting the latest game, which sold over 17,500 copies just as of January this year. It's a series commonly considered one of the biggest properties of SEGA and is popular among both critics and fans.

Hardly the biggest franchise around, especially compared to some of the giants in Smash. Niche? Yes. Obscure? I wouldn't say so.

 

[Droodle]

Just to provide a reference, Sakura Wars has sold over 4.5 million copies worldwide in 2010. That's without counting the latest game, which sold over 17,500 copies just as of January this year. It's a series commonly considered one of the biggest properties of SEGA and is popular among both critics and fans.

Hardly the biggest franchise around, especially compared to some of the giants in Smash. Niche? Yes. Obscure? I wouldn't say so.

"I haven't heard of it, therefore it's magnitudes too niche for Smash". Jokes aside, I hate the double standards the Smash fanbase has for certain characters.
Banjo-Kazooie: Which is rightfully described as a icon of the N64 selling well both in Japan and America, but then fell hard from grace? "It deserves to get in because it was an icon of the N64-era".
Sakura Wars: An icon of Sega in the late 90's - early 2000's, and being one of the few profitable series that Sega had during the Dreamcast-era (still selling ridiculously well for the dreamcast). And on top of that it got a revival recently, which while it did not reach the sales of the previous games, still did decently well for a reboot of a 15 year dormant franchise. Sakura Wars = obscure.

Now this isn't a criticism of Banjo's fanbase, but it is a criticism of the larger Smash fanbase. I hate the bandwagon effect.

Edit: That said, my top choices for the next SEGA rep are still Kiryu and Eggman. Kiryu because he's a wholesome Yakuza daddy who's still wacky enough to oddly fit into Smash. Eggman because outside of Bowser, he's likely still the most iconic villain in gaming (at the very least he's easily top 5); and I think if there are any franchises that deserve a 2nd completely unique fighter, it would have to be Sonic.

Ideally Eggman would be portrayed by Jim Carrey in Smash.

 

[osby]

"I haven't heard of it, therefore it's magnitudes too niche for Smash". Jokes aside, I hate the double standards the Smash fanbase has for certain characters.
Banjo-Kazooie: Which is rightfully described as a icon of the N64 selling well both in Japan and America, but then fell hard from grace? "It deserves to get in because it was an icon of the N64-era".
Sakura Wars: An icon of Sega in the late 90's - early 2000's, and being one of the few profitable series that Sega had during the Dreamcast-era (still selling ridiculously well for the dreamcast). And on top of that it got a revival recently, which while it did not reach the sales of the previous games, still did decently well for a reboot of a 15 year dormant franchise. Sakura Wars = obscure.

Now this isn't a criticism of Banjo's fanbase, but it is a criticism of the larger Smash fanbase. I hate the bandwagon effect.

To be fair, Smash fandom, in general, suffers from an astonishing lack of self-awareness.

Hating on characters is super common yet same people complain when their fave has "detractors".

 

[N3ON]

Just to provide a reference, Sakura Wars has sold over 4.5 million copies worldwide in 2010. That's without counting the latest game, which sold over 17,500 copies just as of January this year. It's a series commonly considered one of the biggest properties of SEGA and is popular among both critics and fans.

Hardly the biggest franchise around, especially compared to some of the giants in Smash. Niche? Yes. Obscure? I wouldn't say so.

I'd say it's pretty obscure outside Japan. It's only had two titles localized, ten years apart, and it would be generous to say the first one "underperformed". Honestly I'm not sure how you can argue it isn't obscure outside Japan.

Within Japan it's definitely another story, there it's not obscure, but I wouldn't hold out hope for a series with as little western recognition as this one.

And it's nowhere near as prevalent as Dragon Quest is in the west (or the east), before someone makes that comparison.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So.

If we had to guess what week we get the ARMS character reveal... When would that be?

May 31st just to get it out of the way and hope for a Fighter 7 reveal who is definitely not coming with the ARMS rep.

Have any of you changed your mind on a character, just due to the fan content created around them

Well I hate Isabelle more now for staining Doom Guy's reputation of being a killing machine. The Doom Guy and Isabelle fan art makes me sick!

How would you react if these were the first 3 fighters of Vol. 2?

FP6: Min Min
FP7: Rayman
FP8: Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars)

Honorable mention; how would you react if FP6 was Spring Man?

Absolute neutrality to everyone on the list.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Anyways, how would you react if these were the first 3 fighters of Vol. 2?

FP6: Min Min
FP7: Rayman
FP8: Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars)

Starts out amazing, Min Min is my second pick for the ARMS rep and Rayman is one of my most wanted but Sakura is kind of ehhh to me.
I'd call her too obscure but then again, people in Japan would feel the same about Rayman and consider Sakura the hype pick so I guess they balance eachother out.

 

[kirbsmash]

Statement checks out.

I just love how pretty he looks in the remake, pretty much.


Anyway, any thoughts on Rayman?

 

[zeldasmash]

If there's one thing besides the Garou costume that I think Smash kinda missed out on Terry it's not including "This is True Love We're Makin'" from Capcom vs SNK 2. The literal title is Smash Ultimate's MO and is one hell of a banger.

 

[3BitSaurus]

"I haven't heard of it, therefore it's magnitudes too niche for Smash". Jokes aside, I hate the double standards the Smash fanbase has for certain characters.
Banjo-Kazooie: Which is rightfully described as a icon of the N64 selling well both in Japan and America, but then fell hard from grace? "It deserves to get in because it was an icon of the N64-era".
Sakura Wars: An icon of Sega in the late 90's - early 2000's, and being one of the few profitable series that Sega had during the Dreamcast-era (still selling ridiculously well for the dreamcast). And on top of that it got a revival recently, which while it did not reach the sales of the previous games, still did decently well for a reboot of a 15 year dormant franchise. Sakura Wars = obscure.

Now this isn't a criticism of Banjo's fanbase, but it is a criticism of the larger Smash fanbase. I hate the bandwagon effect.

I do agree with some of your points, and there is a big difference between being niche and being obscure. But I think the comparison doesn't land well especially because Banjo and Kazooie have recorded fan demand since the Melee era and that demand existed precisely because of their connection to Nintendo.

As far as Sega series are concerned... I think Alex Kidd or Shenmue would be more apt comparisons as "faces of a console that went dead afterwards".

 

[Mr. Robotto]

If there's one thing besides the Garou costume that I think Smash kinda missed out on Terry it's not including "This is True Love We're Makin'" from Capcom vs SNK 2. The literal title is Smash Ultimate's MO and is one hell of a banger.

I'm pretty sure that Capcom owns the soundtrack to both Capcom vs SNK and Capcom vs SNK 2, Capcom had to have a hand in Terry's inclusion for that song to get in. It's a damn shame though... Capcom vs SNK 2 has one of my favourite OSTs.

Also, I remember being disgusted with people who wanted FemTerry instead of his Garou costume as his alt. It wouldn't make sense. Also, Mark of the Wolves is only being repped through Rock Howard. It deserves more, really. It's an amazing game.

Terry's inclusion would've been a 10/10 with his daddy Garou costume and those tracks, but not everything can be perfect sadly.

 

[osby]

I do agree with some of your points, and there is a big difference between being niche and being obscure. But I think the comparison doesn't land well especially because Banjo and Kazooie have recorded fan demand since the Melee era and that demand existed precisely because of their connection to Nintendo.

I see your point but it's also a bit hard to deny that Banjo fans of all people vehemently opposing to characters for being niche is more than a little ironic, especially when they complain about Dragon Quest, a series with a much older and long-lasting connection to Nintendo.

 

[SKX31]

It's wild how the one character they've chosen to give paid costumes to is arguably the least naturally popular of the entire roster.

Just imagine how much they'd make if they gave people skins they want for characters that are generally more cared about.

Seems like a baffling oversight, but I can't imagine they haven't thought about it. And yet I can't fathom why they've decided against it. The work and cost versus reward is hugely in their favour. I mean milking the fanbase for costumes is the bread and butter of so many fighters (and shooters, and mmos, etc etc), and the Smash fanbase is bigger and crazier than most.

I do agree with this, but to play Devil's Advocate:

They probably have thought about it, but decided to keep the ol' "8 costumes per character" hardcoded (presumably) and have the Miis get the costumes since they're more customizable. This was emphasized in the Miis' trailer, and Ultimate's built out of 4.

I say presumably because of Daisy. Nintendo's gone out of their way to ensure that Daisy plays exactly the same as Peach (they patched out the only difference the two had gameplay-wise: the turnips' knockback*). And also, if it wasn't hardcoded they'd be selling new skins / costumes already. I'm not saying that's the only reason to include Daisy - far from it - but it seems as if Sakurai and co. decided that that was the most cost-effective way of including her.

Spoiler: The changes to Daisy

*3.0.0:

• Vegetable's knockback values have been adjusted (30 (base), 35 (scaling) → 25/45), making it identical to Peach's variant. This improves its combo potential at lower percents, and its KOing and gimping potential at higher ones.
  • However, this limits the move's combo potential at higher percents.

The only difference remaining pertains to her animation:

• Daisy crouches slightly during her idle animation. This makes her slightly harder to hit vertically [than Peach].
  • However Daisy's idle having arms held up by her side expands her hurtbox, making her easier to hit horizontally. This means that the Ice Climbers' up tilt will reliably connect on a standing Daisy but not a standing Peach, for instance.
• Daisy's hurtbox is wider when she runs and when she reverses her running animation.

Thus, Daisy = S-tier (except vs. Icies.).

 

[Megadoomer]

Anyways, how would you react if these were the first 3 fighters of Vol. 2?

FP6: Min Min
FP7: Rayman
FP8: Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars)

Honorable mention; how would you react if FP6 was Spring Man?

Min Min: I haven't played much of ARMS (I played it twice while the free trial was available), but Min Min would make a lot of sense (I think she's the most popular, going by the Party Crashes? I haven't looked too deeply into ARMS), and I'd find her to be more interesting than Spring Man. Given my lack of experience with/knowledge of ARMS, I'd be neutral but leaning towards positive, since she's got a good design.

I'd be excited for Rayman - I've only played Rayman Origins and Legends out of his series, so I'd be interested to see what they could pull from his other games, and the potential stages would be great.

As for Sakura...

Though I vaguely recall that she appeared in a Segata Sanshiro commercial, so if it means that we get the Segata Sanshiro theme, then I'm all for it.

If we don't get the Segata Sanshiro theme, I don't know who the character is or what they can do (though I'm vaguely aware that they pilot a mech? Maybe?), so I don't know what my reaction would be.

 

[SNEKeater]

I saw someone mentioning Smash 4 DLC. If I'm honest, I only bought Ryu, Mewtwo and Cloud. Hell, the only reason I got any characters other than Terry for the first pass is that I think it's more economically sound to save the 5 bucks and potentially get more characters I might like instead.

Fools and clowns, all of them. Garou Terry's a near perfect redesign.

Yeah. Honestly I consider that redesign to be vastly superior to his classic design, which I love as well.

If there's one thing besides the Garou costume that I think Smash kinda missed out on Terry it's not including "This is True Love We're Makin'" from Capcom vs SNK 2. The literal title is Smash Ultimate's MO and is one hell of a banger.

Well, that was a pipe dream. CvS music is owned by Capcom and I guess that involving another third party , despite already being in the game, doesn't sound easy. I'd have loved to see some CvS songs in Smash, especially the one you're mentioning and this one:

I'm pretty sure that Capcom owns the soundtrack to both Capcom vs SNK and Capcom vs SNK 2, Capcom had to have a hand in Terry's inclusion for that song to get in. It's a damn shame though... Capcom vs SNK 2 has one of my favourite OSTs.

Also, I remember being disgusted with people who wanted FemTerry instead of his Garou costume as his alt. It wouldn't make sense. Also, Mark of the Wolves is only being repped through Rock Howard. It deserves more, really. It's an amazing game.

Terry's inclusion would've been a 10/10 with his daddy Garou costume and those tracks, but not everything can be perfect sadly.

The "Stand up!" taunt from Terry is from Mark of the Wolves as well, so I guess that's another piece of representation for the game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I guess that involving another third party , despite already being in the game, doesn't sound easy.

They probably would've gone through with it if they had Mii costumes from Capcom fighters to bring back. Both Mii costumes waves that were grab bags did bring back Mega Man costumes.

 

[Mr. Robotto]

Honestly, besides releasing Premium Capcom Mii costumes with CvS tracks, which would be a very roundabout way, they could still do a Music Pack DLC. Dragon Ball FighterZ has been doing that and I'm still confused as to why Sakurai hasn't thought about doing it as well. It'll be a way for them to include more hard-to-get songs from stingy composers like Final Fantasy's and Dragon Quest's and for them to add weird omissions like CvS tracks.

Talking about those, I always thought it would've been nice for them to be playable on both Suzaku Castle and the KOF Stadium. A nice way to incentivise people to purchase the pack even if they don't have Terry's Fighter Pack.

They don't even have to remix any songs... I just want more awesome tracks ;-;

The "Stand up!" taunt from Terry is from Mark of the Wolves as well, so I guess that's another piece of representation for the game.

Oh yeah, that's completely true, I forgot! You could also say Buster Wolf reps it in some way, seeing it originated there lmao.

 

[Dinoman96]

"I haven't heard of it, therefore it's magnitudes too niche for Smash". Jokes aside, I hate the double standards the Smash fanbase has for certain characters.
Banjo-Kazooie: Which is rightfully described as a icon of the N64 selling well both in Japan and America, but then fell hard from grace? "It deserves to get in because it was an icon of the N64-era".
Sakura Wars: An icon of Sega in the late 90's - early 2000's, and being one of the few profitable series that Sega had during the Dreamcast-era (still selling ridiculously well for the dreamcast). And on top of that it got a revival recently, which while it did not reach the sales of the previous games, still did decently well for a reboot of a 15 year dormant franchise. Sakura Wars = obscure.

I mean, how much has any individual Sakura Wars game sold? Has any of them cracked a million? B-K sold over 3 million and B-T sold 1.49 million, for the record.

It's not hard to see why people, especially a lot of the core Smash fandom that grew up with the series since the N64 era, would have more awareness and exposure to Banjo than they do with Sakura Wars. Especially since the Saturn was a completely nothing console in the west, unlike the N64 (in Japan, it was the opposite lol).

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Because June 20th is the last day of Spring, and Summer kicks off the same day.

EDIT: 'd

Anyways, how would you react if these were the first 3 fighters of Vol. 2?

FP6: Min Min
FP7: Rayman
FP8: Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars)

Honorable mention; how would you react if FP6 was Spring Man?

Min-Min would be okay. I would rather have the main mascot first, but she would do.
Rayman is the only one of the three that actually excites me as a character reval.
Sakura is the only one of the three that i actively dislike. Give me somone like Axel Stone instead. Hell, Arle and even damn Kiryu would be better than her.

As for Spring Man, i unironically would prefer him over Min-Min. But i do have to say that the implications of Spring Man's inclusion are more interesing than any ARMS rep could ever be in my eyes.

 

[Perkilator]

I mean, how much has any individual Sakura Wars game sold? Has any of them cracked a million? B-K sold over 3 million and B-T sold 1.49 million, for the record.

It's not hard to see why people, especially a lot of the core Smash fandom that grew up with the series since the N64 era, would have more awareness and exposure to Banjo than they do with Sakura Wars. Especially since the Saturn was a completely nothing console in the west, unlike the N64 (in Japan, it was the opposite lol).

As osby said earlier:

Just to provide a reference, Sakura Wars has sold over 4.5 million copies worldwide in 2010. That's without counting the latest game, which sold over 17,500 copies just as of January this year. It's a series commonly considered one of the biggest properties of SEGA and is popular among both critics and fans.

Hardly the biggest franchise around, especially compared to some of the giants in Smash. Niche? Yes. Obscure? I wouldn't say so.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, how much has any individual Sakura Wars game sold? Has any of them cracked a million? B-K sold over 3 million and B-T sold 1.49 million, for the record.

It's not hard to see why people, especially a lot of the core Smash fandom that grew up with the series since the N64 era, would have more awareness and exposure to Banjo than they do with Sakura Wars. Especially since the Saturn was a completely nothing console in the west, unlike the N64 (in Japan, it was the opposite lol).

It seems the best-selling Sakura Wars game sold about 509,000 units.