Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Koopaul]

That was probably the least heated debate on this thread even with the politics involved.

Yeah this thread has had worse. It was just kind of ridiculous that it became as heated as it did. Looking back I kind of just laugh at it.

 

[KillerCage]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

The game I'm currently playing is Freedom Planet.
You know what that means?
Sash Lilac is joining Smash!

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's much easier to simply delay content than to outright nuke months of business preparation and even development. You're the one being illogical here with how much your attempting to hand-wave the complexity of the process of deciding an entire season of content months in advance. You can technically drop out of agreements or push back that work, but it's considered poor form and you don't want to burn a bridge with a third party by shifting them out of the already agreed upon contract. There's no reason to talk about it because there's very little to imply we should take it as meaning all that much, made especially clear by the fact that the immediate next information from Sakurai was stating how well the transition had actually played out for the DLC development. At worst, you're looking at a month or two delay for products with no certain release date to begin with outside of "all of them by the end of 2021." That release window has always been extremely generous to Nintendo and gives them even greater breathing room to develop as necessary.

We were reading the same quotation, correct? The one where he said he was not able to meet with a publisher and had no plans to redetermine when that meeting would be held?
This is him completely stating that the plans had been disrupted. What exactly am I insinuating?
I don't see how I'm oversimplifying anything- the complexities of character configuration are the exact reason I brought this quotation up.
I suppose we will never know what happened, but it seems pretty evident certain things were moved around and changed. When I initially brought the idea that characters were even reordered or switched in release date, I think the consensus of the room was 'not possible.' Yet we were clearly told the plans had to be changed in some way...

I know its hard to continually have the conceptions of the room let down, but sometimes- I'm sure everyone feels- this game discussion really makes it feel like you are talking into a wall.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

Looks we would be getting a Xenoblade 2 rep, but not Rex and Pyra, but Jin and Lora instead since I've been playing Torna while waiting for DE.

 

[The_Naraotor]

The game I'm currently playing is Freedom Planet.
You know what that means?
Sash Lilac is joining Smash!

View attachment 272725

She has a Sonic The Hedgehog character look that I like.

 

[Droodle]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

The last character I played is Fox from Smash Bros Ultimate.
It's hype to think about being able to play as Fox in Smash bros Ultimate and 1v1ing another Fox on Final Destination. Too bad it'll never happen.

Before that was DQ 11S, the Hero is already playable; but Erik would be cool with being able to divide and poison.

If we're talking about the last non-Smash related game I played, it would have to be Ys 8. Adol would be cool, but only if Flash Guard is as broken in Ultimate as it is in Ys 8.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

People who were salty over Byleth's reveal basically threw a temper tantrum when they saw that Dante or Geno didn't make it in. Fire Emblem is extremely popular in Japan, so it kind of makes sense that Byleth would be the final fighter in the first Fighters Pass.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

Playing mayo vs ketchup in Splatoon 2 the last few days soooo

IT’S VEEMO TIME.

 

[Speed Weed]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

last one i played was terry in smash ultimate

time for garou terry as a separate character, baybeeeeee

 

[Cosmic77]

People who were salty over Byleth's reveal basically threw a temper tantrum when they saw that Dante or Geno didn't make it in. Fire Emblem is extremely popular in Japan, so it kind of makes sense that Byleth would be the final fighter in the first Fighters Pass.

I think it had more to do with the character choice itself rather than who didn't get in instead of Byleth. Most of the pass consisted of characters no one was asking for, yet the reception was mostly positive. People had been complaining about the number of FE reps before Ultimate even existed.

As for FE being extremely popular in Japan, this isn't really accurate. Truth be told, it's only moderately popular in Japan. The West is responsible for most of its success now.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

We were reading the same quotation, correct? The one where he said he was not able to meet with a publisher and had no plans to redetermine when that meeting would be held?
This is him completely stating that the plans had been disrupted. What exactly am I insinuating?
I don't see how I'm oversimplifying anything- the complexities of character configuration are the exact reason I brought this quotation up.
I suppose we will never know what happened, but it seems pretty evident certain things were moved around and changed. When I initially brought the idea that characters were even reordered or switched in release date, I think the consensus of the room was 'not possible.' Yet we were clearly told the plans had to be changed in some way...

I know its hard to continually have the conceptions of the room let down, but sometimes- I'm sure everyone feels- this game discussion really makes it feel like you are talking into a wall.

I'm sure the pandemic is changing things around, and I'm equally sure that it may cause them to swap reveals or characters around a bit since they don't have much freedom of movement anymore.

What I'm not sure about is that the pandemic will force them to cancel characters and renegotiate with others. If DLC set 2 was announced in January, where it was also announced that all characters were decided, we know that the negotiations for the characters had to have been months before that. COVID-19 wasn't a major problem last summer, so those negotiations for the character probably went fine. Now it's a matter of building and balancing the characters, which they can do in house. They can't have their update meetings easily, or they need to do those virtually which may leave them open for hackers, so I can see them possibly delaying third parties (especially if a western one is involved), but to just call up the company and say "No, sorry, we're not making your character anymore" seems a bit excessive. I doubt people are assuming that this work-from-home status will continue through December 2021 and they'll never be able to have the meetings. Besides, then they'd have to scrap the work they did (since they probably started modelling and rigging) and renegotiate with a different company (and yes, Nintendo first parties probably still need negotiation, and second parties like GF/TPC or IS definitely do)

Besides, if they are under a lockdown the same way we are in NYC, Sakurai's got just as much of a hurdle talking to Nintendo execs as he does talking to any developer anywhere. It's not like he lives in HQ.

So in the grand scheme of things, it's totally possible to have reveals switched because of working from home. But does that matter if they change the releases order? What if we get who was supposed to be character 79 as 76 instead? If they're all still in, we get the same end result in December 2021 anyway.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

We were reading the same quotation, correct? The one where he said he was not able to meet with a publisher and had no plans to redetermine when that meeting would be held?
This is him completely stating that the plans had been disrupted. What exactly am I insinuating?
I don't see how I'm oversimplifying anything- the complexities of character configuration are the exact reason I brought this quotation up.
I suppose we will never know what happened, but it seems pretty evident certain things were moved around and changed. When I initially brought the idea that characters were even reordered or switched in release date, I think the consensus of the room was 'not possible.' Yet we were clearly told the plans had to be changed in some way...

I know its hard to continually have the conceptions of the room let down, but sometimes- I'm sure everyone feels- this game discussion really makes it feel like you are talking into a wall.

This is the entirety of what you're basing this theory on: https://sourcegaming.info/2020/03/23/sakurai-on-covid/
"My business trips have also been restricted by the influence of the novel coronavirus. Long distance trips have been especially difficult to put together. For example, my trips to Nintendo in Kyoto. Trips to other companies have been problematic, too. Planning new fighters, presenting to publishers, and having meetings have all been indefinitely postponed. Business at our office has been continuing as usual despite other businesses closing."

Keep in mind, this was still as the extent to which the outbreak was only really beginning to be recognized and rapidly evolving from day to day, so putting things on hold indefinitely while literally everybody tried to figure out what the hell was going on and how best to keep people safe made sense. This was on March 23rd, 2020 and it doesn't make any mention of anything being cancelled (and this was even before they had really started working from home).

BUT, a month late on April 29th, 2020, Sakurai said this in his column about teleworking and spoke to how well the process had gone: https://twitter.com/Sephazon/status/1255541908274679808
"For the time being, we are proceeding without any problems, so far. However, we’re only developing DLC at the moment. For example, it would have been very difficult to develop Super Smash Bros. Ultimate early on if we were in this situation.”

So, I really don't get where you're getting evidence of an outright replacement or cancellation of a character from. There's no evidence anywhere other than some immediate uncertainty as the very real threat of COVID-19 hit and required businesses to adapt to keep people safe and healthy. He's literally in an article one month later indicating that development is going well despite the transition and work towards adapting their work flow to meet the new paradigm shift.

And that's all without saying I don't think people should really be using COVID-19 to advance their ideas on the speculation front as it's kind of tasteless.

 

[Hinata]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

The last character I played as was Aqua in SRB2 Kart.

I don't think the world needs a useless goddess in Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The last character I played as was Aqua in SRB2 Kart.

I don't think the world needs a useless goddess in Smash.

This is false. What we really don't need, is two of them.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If delays do come up due to COVID-19, I could see them re-negotiating to move some 3rd party characters to a later slot, as Nintendo is more in-house and easier to travel to.

It however has shown no signs of that being needed. But we still have a year and a half. Things could change. But yeah, there's no real evidence this has happened, and definitely none for cancellations.

Nothing wrong with being pessimistic about the idea that "the exact order will stay the same" and all. With such a deadly pandemic, worrying a little is reasonable. But cancellations are a far bigger deal than changing the date of a release. Both would require new negotiations, but companies are releasing stuff later too, so they're pretty understanding in the regard of delays. Spring Man alone was delayed, and that could've affected any of the other 5 release dates, even if just a little. Likewise, the pandemic came up after they already figured out all the characters as is. That means if delays happen, they wouldn't have had an idea set up of who to change around by default. Of course there'd be new negotiations even for delays. Delays matter for a company, as the timing of a reveal and release often coincides with a game they have coming out. A promotional effect matters. That could mean they might not want to delay their game, but they may move it up a week or so depending the situation.

It can get pretty complicated, yeah. But there may have been ideal time periods for each character release too, ones that are extremely flexible. We don't know, and may never know at any point. But I do think the idea some characters could be switched around isn't that farfetched. Not really ARMS, as it was likely the pass opener as is, However, didn't Sakurai say they had to delay the release? I don't think it's cause of COVID-19, but more because extendable arms require extra balancing.

 

[P.Kat]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

Was playing FFXIV just a minute ago, guess that means the Warrior of Light is coming to Smash.

 

[Digital Hazard]

The last character I played as was Aqua in SRB2 Kart.

I don't think the world needs a useless goddess in Smash.

And miss on the chance of a guidance where Viridi and her argue to no end?

I feel robbed that it didn't happen with Sothis.

 

[Schnee117]

The last character I played as was Aqua in SRB2 Kart.

I don't think the world needs a useless goddess in Smash.

Jane Hairbones... win

 

[MisterMike]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

I last played the Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age Definitive Edition, but since we've already gotten Hero I'll go with Erik.

I've only gotten ~5 hours into the game so I have yet to see any of the other party members, but he's cool and I could see his use of magic and other such trickery to really let him stand out from the rest of the cast.

 

[SmashChu]

If delays do come up due to COVID-19, I could see them re-negotiating to move some 3rd party characters to a later slot, as Nintendo is more in-house and easier to travel to.

This is not true.
Sora and Namco Bandai, who are making the game, are in Tokyo
Nintendo is in Kyoto

If you take the bullet train, it's about 2 and a half hours to get there. So no, the travel isn't easier for Nintendo characters. Square, Atlus, Sega and Konami are in Tokyo and would be easier to travel too than Nintendo given any restrictions on travel.

 

[Opossum]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

Everything is calm until I reveal that I'm in the middle of grinding for timeskip Edelgard's hero merit in Heroes as I post this. I can't stop winning.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

Estelle Bright from Trails of the Sky.

 

[SNEKeater]

last one i played was terry in smash ultimate

time for garou terry as a separate character, baybeeeeee

Terry was 9.9/10 for me, and my reason for not giving him a 10 is because we didn't get Garou Terry.

Seeing people asking for Female Terry (???) instead of Garou Terry wasn't helpful as well lol

 

[Megadoomer]

She has a Sonic The Hedgehog character look that I like.

Freedom Planet is pretty heavily based on the Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog games.

 

[SKX31]

She has a Sonic The Hedgehog character look that I like.

While on that topic, I'd reccomend Freedom Planet 1 or 2's Demo if you're interested in Genesis / Mania Sonic games.

Everything is calm until I reveal that I'm in the middle of grinding for timeskip Edelgard's hero merit in Heroes as I post this. I can't stop winning.

*"All I do is win" starts playing in the background.*

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Last game I played was Dark Souls Remastered.

Why not?

 

[Perkilator]

People who were salty over Byleth's reveal basically threw a temper tantrum when they saw that Dante or Geno didn't make it in. Fire Emblem is extremely popular in Japan, so it kind of makes sense that Byleth would be the final fighter in the first Fighters Pass.

Well, in Dante's case, it was more to do with a DMC3 Switch port announcement happening on the same day coincidentally, so people falsely assumed Dante was hinted at.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That'd work well for Gradius' Option, but it's be a bit strange to have regular Vic Viper as anything but a spaceship as normal.

Well, regardless, I'd just love some spirits~

Same. All I need is some Spirits. Trying to make a playable Parodius character is kinda silly.

Getting the Gradius option as an Item though would be awesome. It floats next to you copies your Neutral Special when you use it? Amazing! Especially for characters without projectiles.

Edit: Goddamn, watching that video again reminded me about GameCenter CX and WHY THE HELL CAN'T I WATCH THAT ON CRUNCHYROLL OR SOMETHING!

He beat Super Mario RPG last year!

Why is this real? Why does Gradius have a gun ship waifu?

Because that's Otomedius.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Well, in Dante's case, it was more to do with a DMC3 Switch port announcement happening on the same day coincidentally, so people falsely assumed Dante was hinted at.

Pretty much this.

It's why the Fighters Pass is the only instance where I can't blame people of thinking it would legit end in a bang, and this comes from someone who wanted Byleth.

 

[kirbsmash]

Seeing people asking for Female Terry (???) instead of Garou Terry wasn't helpful as well lol

You, I like you. I wished we got the dad terry and not basically Samus in terry's clothes.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is not true.
Sora and Namco Bandai, who are making the game, are in Tokyo
Nintendo is in Kyoto

If you take the bullet train, it's about 2 and a half hours to get there. So no, the travel isn't easier for Nintendo characters. Square, Atlus, Sega and Konami are in Tokyo and would be easier to travel too than Nintendo given any restrictions on travel.

Maybe not completely true, but it's not completely untrue either. A 2 hour train ride is much less of a production than a 2+ hour flight to a different country.

Terry was 9.9/10 for me, and my reason for not giving him a 10 is because we didn't get Garou Terry.

Seeing people asking for Female Terry (???) instead of Garou Terry wasn't helpful as well lol

Part of this was likely due to Madame Lesley's campaigning having female representation on our minds. Terry from SNK Heroines (or technically more accurately, from SNK vs. Capcom) would have been a funny way of doing that (unless you find it offensive).

Personally, I don't care for the color brown, so his design from Garou: Mark of the Wolves doesn't appeal to me. Still, more alts = better unless you're trying to smoosh a bunch of characters together all willy nilly.

 

[zeldasmash]

Terry was 9.9/10 for me, and my reason for not giving him a 10 is because we didn't get Garou Terry.

Seeing people asking for Female Terry (???) instead of Garou Terry wasn't helpful as well lol

Agreed that Terry should have gotten his Garou costume as an alt. He looks great in Garou: Mark of the Wolves. Plus, didn't Buster Wolf debut from that game?

I wouldn't have minded Fem Terry, honestly. It's simply that I preferred his Garou look.

 

[kirbsmash]

Terry from SNK Heroines (or technically more accurately, from SNK vs. Capcom) would have been a funny way of doing that (unless you find it offensive

It kinda do? Becauyse she's only been like in 2 games, tops.

 

[SNEKeater]

Part of this was likely due to Madame Lesley's campaigning having female representation on our minds. Terry from SNK Heroines (or technically more accurately, from SNK vs. Capcom) would have been a funny way of doing that (unless you find it offensive).

Personally, I don't care for the color brown, so his design from Garou: Mark of the Wolves doesn't appeal to me. Still, more alts = better unless you're trying to smoosh a bunch of characters together all willy nilly.

Maybe that's what happened here, but that part of my post was mostly addresed to Twitter random people. It was relatively frequent to find people there wanting the female version.
I mean, it wasn't surprising at all, because most of the people asking for that were doing it just for the memes and because "Female Terry looks hot", but at the same time was shocking because... Female Terry isn't really the best depiction of the character? at all? While his Garou redesign, definitely more iconic and representative of his character progression, was barely asked among people, or at least that was the impression I got.

Is not the same case but it would be like adding Joker dressed as a female cop, which is from Persona 5 Dancing, as one of his costumes. It wouldn't be the best way to represent the character.

As for your last part of the message I agree, I think Smash needs more unique costumes in general. I know that in most cases that would mean more work, but still. I guess it doesn't help I'm not really a fan of color variations in any fighting game, those type of costumes are usually boring to my taste, which is why I usually stick with the default costume 90% of the time.

Agreed that Terry should have gotten his Garou costume as an alt. He looks great in Garou: Mark of the Wolves. Plus, didn't Buster Wolf debut from that game?

I wouldn't have minded Fem Terry, honestly. It's simply that I preferred his Garou look.

Yep, Buster Wolf debuted on Garou: Mark of the Wolves.

 

[Speed Weed]

i just really don't like the idea of fem terry as an alt over garou terry
especially considering that snk heroines wasn't exactly the best game and the fact that the way they did fem terry in the game was

uh

kinda disturbing

but nooooo, funny haha waifu hahahaha man become woman that is the absolute peak of comedy hahaha

basically, gimme proud mature daddy garou terry

 

[kirbsmash]

but nooooo, funny haha waifu hahahaha man become woman that is the absolute peak of comedy hahaha

T H A N K Y O UFOR TAKING THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH

 

[ZephyrZ]

The last character I played is Fox from Smash Bros Ultimate.

I don't believe you, no one on Smashboards actually plays Ultimate. We all just bought the game solely to complain about the roster picks.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

Skate from Streets of Rage 2 which would be pretty awesome.

 

[SmashChu]

Maybe not completely true, but it's not completely untrue either. A 2 hour train ride is much less of a production than a 2+ hour flight to a different country.

The point I was replying to was that there would be no issue with Nintendo characters because it's "In House". This isn't true because of the 2 1/2 hour travel

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It kinda do? Becauyse she's only been like in 2 games, tops.

Maybe that's what happened here, but that part of my post was mostly addresed to Twitter random people. It was relatively frequent to find people there wanting the female version.
I mean, it wasn't surprising at all, because most of the people asking for that were doing it just for the memes and because "Female Terry looks hot", but at the same time was shocking because... Female Terry isn't really the best depiction of the character? at all? It just appeared once in a spin-off. While his Garou redesign, definitely more iconic and representative of his character progression, was barely asked among people, or at least that was the impression I got.

Is not the same case but it would be like adding Joker dressed as a female cop, which is from Persona 5 Dancing, as one of his costumes. It wouldn't be the best way to represent the character.

Perhaps it would be better as a part of a pallet swap/alternate costume maker for the game. That's where I'd put all of the more random costumes anyway. Things like N64 models for characters, Animal villagers, Luigi's Peach disguise from Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga, Ninten, previous Link designs, etc. You could also pick your favorite Koopaling (or your favorite Bowser Jr.) and give them the pallet swaps they deserve.

EDIT: So what I'm saying is give me a pallet swap/alternate costume maker in this or the next game. Allow its use online but also let us turn it off for our opponents if we're tired of seeing barf color schemes or character colors that are too similar to one another.