Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But then who's gonna laugh in the background?

No one?

Honestly, I'm not sure what you mean cause I can't remember this instance.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

New Sakurai POTD

pic.twitter.com/GDysTyzblk

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) May 19, 2020

...nom

 

[Perkilator]

Me: *tries to watch Euden gameplay to see what he can do*
Euden: *stands behind the boss so I can't see*
Also Euden: *turns into anime girl*
Me: *watches a different video*
Euden: *turns into Rathelos*

*slams desk*

I had a video ready, but…it got copyright claimed when I uploaded it to YouTube.

 

[SneakyLink]

New Sakurai POTD

pic.twitter.com/GDysTyzblk

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) May 19, 2020

...nom

Sakurai researched the Internet and saw people researching this for... reasons.

On the Startropics thing, Mike Jones would be a neat newcomer, but did Japan ever receive either game in the series?

 

[chocolatejr9]

In the next #NintendoPower Podcast, we’ll be revisiting StarTropics, available now via #NintendoSwitchOnline. Play along with us and share your thoughts about the game below! pic.twitter.com/zsywRX7qFX

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) May 18, 2020

So, StarTropics is going to be in a Nintendo Power Podcast, and maybe this is foreshadowing for Mike Jones in Smash.

I've been curious about StarTropics. Doubt this means anything, though.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Remember when Mysterious Murasame Castle got a port on the 3DS and people were like "OMG TAKAMARU IN SMASH???" and like a day later sakurai assist trophied him on pic of the day

 

[Garteam]

In the next #NintendoPower Podcast, we’ll be revisiting StarTropics, available now via #NintendoSwitchOnline. Play along with us and share your thoughts about the game below! pic.twitter.com/zsywRX7qFX

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) May 18, 2020

So, StarTropics is going to be in a Nintendo Power Podcast, and maybe this is foreshadowing for Mike Jones in Smash.

I guess we're getting the ARMS character now, because this is a stretch!

On a less sarcastic note (sorry, I had that joke in my head all day and had to use it), I don't really think this means anything. Byleth was largely kept a secret internally, so unless Chris Slate (assuming he's the one who chooses the discussion topic) is one of the lucky few to be in the know, there's no real way it could be foreshadowing something Smash based. Likewise, there's really no major releases to discuss in June and a fourth month of Animal Crossing discussion was probably deemed excessive. They most likely just wanted something nostalgic and under appreciated to fill the month's time slot.

 

[snowgolem]

But then who's gonna laugh in the background?

I know this is a joke, but it would definitely feel strange if we got a presentation and it was just Sakurai sitting by himself, and there was absolutely no one behind the camera.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's what I could find of Euden's (or, The Prince, as he also seems to be called) abilities:

• Blazing Circlet: Spin Attack, but fire. May or may not be the recovery move.
• Exalted Fire: Genmu Zero, but fire.
• Rising Circlet: Summons a fortress around himself that leaves behind a buff zone that boosts his attack while he's inside it. Not what I expected but ok.
• Exalted Glory: Apparently is an attack, but I never saw it in action. It's also a pretty big buff though. Could be his Final Smash.
• I think his dragon form gives him one other ability but I have no idea what that would be since I don't even know which dragon he'd have.

As far as the dragon goes, I could see it being just a Final Smash. Or it could be a comeback mechanic in the same vein as Cloud and Joker. I dunno.

 

[snowgolem]

Here's what I could find of Euden's (or, The Prince, as he also seems to be called) abilities:

• Blazing Circlet: Spin Attack, but fire. May or may not be the recovery move.
• Exalted Fire: Genmu Zero, but fire.
• Rising Circlet: Summons a fortress around himself that leaves behind a buff zone that boosts his attack while he's inside it. Not what I expected but ok.
• Exalted Glory: Apparently is an attack, but I never saw it in action. It's also a pretty big buff though. Could be his Final Smash.
• I think his dragon form gives him one other ability but I have no idea what that would be since I don't even know which dragon he'd have.

As far as the dragon goes, I could see it being just a Final Smash. Or it could be a comeback mechanic in the same vein as Cloud and Joker. I dunno.

He would most likely have Midgardsormr. Spoiler free and makes sense

 

[ZephyrZ]

The old Manaketes are just basic western dragons with no flair whatsoever, Fire Emblem Awakening's Manaketes are weird kelp dragons, and Corrin is probably the weirdest dra-...

Awakening manaketes were western dragons fused with real life leafy sea dragons, a seahorse relative that camoflages as kelp.

 

[snowgolem]

How would you guys react if, during an ARMS presentation, Sakurai announced that Smash Ultimate was the last game in the series?

 

[SnowClaws]

Yeah, I know StarTropics topic couldn't possibly be a foreshadow in Smash since there are hardly any contents from that game in Smash at all. I just want to bring back the franchise in public eye, so there can be a discussion about Mike Jones chance in Smash. Plus, StarTropics never been released in Japan, so the chance is slim.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He would most likely have Midgardsormr. Spoiler free and makes sense

Ok then. That adds...

Tornado Tail...I cannot find any footage of this attack because all that shows up are boss fights and the description doesn't really tell me much.

 

[PeridotGX]

How would you guys react if, during an ARMS presentation, Sakurai announced that Smash Ultimate was the last game in the series?

I'd be suprised to learn that Nintendo hates money.

 

[snowgolem]

Ok then. That adds...

Tornado Tail...I cannot find any footage of this attack because all that shows up are boss fights and the description doesn't really tell me much.

I can’t find a clip either. I found the wiki page, if that helps. It was the second result so you probably found it though. https://dragalialost.gamepedia.com/Tornado_Tail_(Skill)#Icon
I wish I could tell you all about it but I don’t use Midgardsormr so I don’t know much about him.

I'd be suprised to learn that Nintendo hates money.

It wouldn’t be because Nintendo hates money. Sakurai’s break is long overdue. Maybe it would just be time to move on to other projects.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It wouldn’t be because Nintendo hates money. Sakurai’s break is long overdue. Maybe it would just be time to move on to other projects.

Even if that were the case the series would just get a new director. Besides, the next game likely won't be for a while. Sakurai will get his break either way.

 

[snowgolem]

Even if that were the case the series would just get a new director. Besides, the next game likely won't be for a while. Sakurai will get his break either way.

Thanks for the terrifying thought of Smash without Sakurai

 

[Perkilator]

Ok then. That adds...

Tornado Tail...I cannot find any footage of this attack because all that shows up are boss fights and the description doesn't really tell me much.

I recorded some footage to upload as a YouTube video, but TOYS FACTORY, Inc. claimed it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Thanks for the terrifying thought of Smash without Sakurai

It wouldn't be that bad. The project would just be handed over to someone like Miyamotto, and all of the characters would be turned into Toads.
EDIT: Well...not all of them. The villains would be replaced by Shy-Guys!

I recorded some footage to upload as a YouTube video, but TOYS FACTORY, Inc. claimed it.

That's too bad... :/

 

[Arcanir]

Ok then. That adds...

Tornado Tail...I cannot find any footage of this attack because all that shows up are boss fights and the description doesn't really tell me much.

If you're curious to see what he can do, here's his boss fight ('High' as I couldn't find the normal version). Tornado Tail is among the attacks he uses there and it gives an idea of what else he could do.

How would you guys react if, during an ARMS presentation, Sakurai announced that Smash Ultimate was the last game in the series?

Very surprised as I don't think either Sakurai or Nintendo want the franchise to end. It probably won't be revisited for a while, but due to Sakurai's attachment to the series (it's the only one he's constantly come back to whereas Kirby and KI he's left alone) and the success it brings to Nintendo there probably will be a new game in the future.

 

[---]

Remember when Mysterious Murasame Castle got a port on the 3DS and people were like "OMG TAKAMARU IN SMASH???" and like a day later sakurai assist trophied him on pic of the day

I guess, though in fairness there was also Samurai Warriors 3 & Nintendo Land so there was a fair amount in his favor at the time speculation wise. News of an international release of his original game months before the release, was certainly something to take note of.

Not exactly the best comparison, but definitely one of major de-confirmation events.

 

[Knight Dude]

Well, if you want an FPS suggestion that isn't just Master Chief, Doom Slayer and Tracer, what about the dude from Crysis? Obviously, the Switch port doesn't confirm anything, but the main guy has a sick costume and can turn invisible.

Again, just some weird idea since no one mentioned it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

How would you guys react if, during an ARMS presentation, Sakurai announced that Smash Ultimate was the last game in the series?

Well that would be like the fifth time he's said that, so I'd shrug, say "Oh, Sakurai, you card!" and then we'd freeze frame as the credits roll.

 

[DarthEnderX]

No. I'm not calling the Hookshot a gun nor the The Legend of Zelda series a shooter.

The Portal Device is nothing more than a tool that transports you from one part of a level to another. Just like the Hookshot. So if you are calling the Portal Device a gun, then yes, you are also calling the Hookshot a gun.

The first person targeted items bring an FPS element to the game, but they are not its core focus like it is in Portal.

Look, you can spend all day arguing that this game where your character's only tool is a glorified magic wand that makes doors, is somehow a shooter. But when you bring up Portal on Steam, you know what tags it has? Puzzle. Puzzle Platformer. 3D Platformer.

You know what tags it doesn't have? FPS or Shooter.

So, the game's creators and the gaming community at large basically say you don't know wtf you're talking about.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

New Sakurai POTD

pic.twitter.com/GDysTyzblk

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) May 19, 2020

...nom

Oh god why is Sakurai so obsessed with making Ridley's beak ****ing curl? At least it isn't noticable here nor does it look like bent cardboard now

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well, if you want an FPS suggestion that isn't just Master Chief, Doom Slayer and Tracer, what about the dude from Crysis? Obviously, the Switch port doesn't confirm anything, but the main guy has a sick costume and can turn invisible.

Again, just some weird idea since no one mentioned it.

Crysis could work as a character, and I guess they could have the three protags as alts of each other.

Or maybe they'd just have Prophet, he's kind of the main character overall. And I can't remember if there's any differences between the suits so maybe alts don't make sense.

Look, you can spend all day arguing that this game where your character's only tool is a glorified magic wand that makes doors, is somehow a shooter. But when you bring up Portal on Steam, you know what tags it has? Puzzle. Puzzle Platformer. 3D Platformer.

You know what tags it doesn't have? FPS or Shooter.

So, the game's creators and the gaming community at large basically say you don't know wtf you're talking about.

Both Portal and Portal 2 are tagged as FPSes.

 

[DarthEnderX]

How would you guys react if, during an ARMS presentation, Sakurai announced that Smash Ultimate was the last game in the series?

Skeptically.

Both Portal and Portal 2 are tagged as FPSes.

I don't know where you're seeing that, because neither of their Steam pages show that on my end.

Also, both of their wikipedia pages list their genre as "Puzzle-Platformer".

 

[SnowClaws]

Well, if you want an FPS suggestion that isn't just Master Chief, Doom Slayer and Tracer, what about the dude from Crysis? Obviously, the Switch port doesn't confirm anything, but the main guy has a sick costume and can turn invisible.

Again, just some weird idea since no one mentioned it.

Other FPS candidates are JC Denton (Deus Ex), Sam "Serious" Stone (Serious Sam), Stranger (Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath), and lastly William "Bill" Overbeck (Left 4 Dead).

 

[PeridotGX]

Thanks for the terrifying thought of Smash without Sakurai

I don't think the idea of a non-Sakurai Smash is inherintly bad. I'd like to see someone else's take on the series, and if it's not that great we still have Ultimate.

 

[Koopaul]

I've seen this comparison made before as well, and it's still not a great representation of the situation.

All that really differentiates the ARMS cast from each other (in gameplay) is a difference in their stats, size, and gimmick. Spring Man, for example, punches in the exact same manner as Ribbon Girl, who punches in the exact manner as Min Min, who punches in the exact same manner as Master Mummy, who punches in the exact same manner as Dr. Coyle. 90% of the moves an ARMS character can perform are shared with the rest of the roster.

Compare with the shotos, who share comparatively little of their kits amongst each other. Ryu punches and kicks in a way different from Akuma, who punches and kicks different from Sakura, who punches and kicks differently from Dan. Even then, the abilities that these characters do share are completely different in appearance and function between the shotos. Even though Ryu and Dan both hadokens, how they do so and the effect those hakodens have are night and day. If the shotos were like the ARMS cast, they'd all perfectly share Ryu's punches, kicks, and specials while having different stats and one unique special each.

Okay I hate to drag this back up but I've been busy. I think a lot of you just don't understand ARMS. ARMS is not like other fighting games. Its a 3D game and as a result the gameplay revolves around 3D movement. People don't realize how vital that is to the game. A professional Ribbon Girl will have a completely different playstyle from Spring Man.

How characters move dramatically effects the gameplay. The complexity of the gameplay completely lies in movement. Moving yourself and moving your ARMS. Ribbon Girl having multijumps and Ninjara teleporting is critical to their character. Characters even have different arm girths which change the size of the punches. This may seem minor to someone who is not that familiar with the series, but so would frame data to people who aren't familiar with traditional fighting games.

The sad fact is that many people are still comparing ARMS to other fighting games. And because it doesn't do what other fighting games do they believe it is simple and has no nuance.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Skeptically.

I don't know where you're seeing that, because neither of their Steam pages show that on my end.

Also, both of their wikipedia pages list their genre as "Puzzle-Platformer".

Spoiler: Portal

Spoiler: Portal 2

Dunno what to tell you man. The gamer nation you so adore has spoken.

 

[MBRedboy31]

The Portal Device is nothing more than a tool that transports you from one part of a level to another. Just like the Hookshot. So if you are calling the Portal Device a gun, then yes, you are also calling the Hookshot a gun.

Look, you can spend all day arguing that this game where your character's only tool is a glorified magic wand that makes doors, is somehow a shooter. But when you bring up Portal on Steam, you know what tags it has? Puzzle. Puzzle Platformer. 3D Platformer.

You know what tags it doesn't have? FPS or Shooter.

So, the game's creators and the gaming community at large basically say you don't know wtf you're talking about.

The games’ actual genres on Steam (not the user tags, the actual official genre tags) are “Action” for Portal 1 and “Action, Adventure” for Portal 2. Steam doesn’t have an “FPS” or “Shooter” genre, nor does it have a “Puzzle” genre, though, so this might be irrelevant. Thus, the user tags are what we have to look at there.

On the other hand, as a counterexample, on Twitch, it is tagged as “Puzzle, FPS, Shooter.”

Since games like these blur the distinctions between genres, I guess the main takeaway is that game genres are often subjective; I guess it depends on what one thinks is the most important part of a game’s design.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Dunno what to tell you man. The gamer nation you so adore has spoken.

I mean, it's SIXTEEN and TWENTY tags down(mine only shows the top 4 for some reason). Which means, like, 5 people tagged it that. So, no, the gamer nation hasn't spoken. A handful of ignorant dip****s spoke.

On the other hand, as a counterexample, on Twitch, it is tagged as “Puzzle, FPS, Shooter.”

And, again, on wikipedia, it's genre is listed as puzzle-platformer.

Like, getting back to the root of the argument here. You could make a very long, twisting argument to say that there are things in Portal that resemble FPSs. But it's about 10 other things BEFORE it's an FPS.

So trying to call Chell an "FPS" rep is like trying to call Cloud a "Horse Racing Sim" rep. Like, yeah, there's something vaguely resembling horse racing in there somewhere, but that's not what the ****ing game is.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I think the main difference between Link's Hookshot and Chell's portal gun is that while the hookshot is an equipable item you only use when the situation requires it, firing the Portal Gun is one of the main methods you use to interact with the world. Portal controls like and FPS while Ocarina of Time only controls like one in very specific situations.

Still, I think its safe to say OoT has FPS elements included in it.

There isn't a concrete answer on what makes a game an FPS though. Is it how it controls, or does it have to be an action game? Some people might say the genre is centered on combat, but I don't like that answer because it excludes games where your objective is to shoot targets for points. I personally think a better definition would be a game that tests your skill and precision at aiming a virtual reticle from a first person perspective. Although some 3rd person games get very close to that definition aside from the perspective.

The moral of the story here is that video game genres are poorly defined and trying to about what games fit into which can be extremely arbitrary, especially when a game can encompass several genres to varying degrees. I mean, just think of how many wildly different forms an "action" game can take, for instance. Who even decides these things? As far as I an tell, there's no official organization who sets these definitions in stone - a genre's definition whatever the person using the term wants them to mean.

I suppose my stance is that Portal is "sort of" an FPS in that shooting is your main method of interacting with the world, but it (from my understanding) does little to actually test your skill at aiming.

 

[pupNapoleon]

How would you guys react if, during an ARMS presentation, Sakurai announced that Smash Ultimate was the last game in the series?

I expect it. I imagine the next game will be a reboot helmed by another director, focusing on hugely expanding the character versatility, and a well crafted story.

 

[Phoenixio]

I feel like people are forgetting what FPS means... It's First Person Shooter... Emphasis on First Person. Portal is obviously a First Person game, with obvious Shooting elements, so of course FPS applies. It doesn't mean it's the only thing the game does though, as it is also obviously a platformer and a puzzle-driven game. But again, the First Person Shooter part is essential to the game. Nobody can deny that, even if for them the puzzle part is more important...

FPS doesn't necessarily mean Call of Duty with army and constant machine guns... Would you argue that Splatoon is not a Shooter, because they're just painting the floor? That it's just a "magical" device that spits color?

 

[Shroob]

I expect it. I imagine the next game will be a reboot helmed by another director, focusing on hugely expanding the character versatility, and a well crafted story.

The day there's a fighting game with an actual, gripping story will be the day.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The day there's a fighting game with an actual, gripping story will be the day.

Mortal Kombat hasn't been telling a kick-ass time traveling Kung Fu story to be disrespected like this. And the Injustice storyline is so good that Zack Snyder tried and failed to adapt it to the big screen.

What I'm saying is look no further than Netherrealm for stories in fighting games.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I feel like people are forgetting what FPS means... It's First Person Shooter... Emphasis on First Person. Portal is obviously a First Person game, with obvious Shooting elements, so of course FPS applies.

No, it does NOT have shooting elements! Because the Portal device IS NOT A GUN. It does NOTHING when you hit enemies with it! The thing makes doors on walls!

This is maddening that people think that anything that projects anything is a gun! As if garden hoses or flashlights are guns! You people are insane!

Would you argue that Splatoon is not a Shooter, because they're just painting the floor? That it's just a "magical" device that spits color?

No, because said paint, ya know, blows people apart when you hit them with it.