Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ZephyrZ]

No, it does NOT have shooting elements! Because the Portal device IS NOT A GUN. It does NOTHING when you hit enemies with it! The thing makes doors on walls!

This is maddening that people think that anything that projects anything is a gun! As if garden hoses or flashlights are guns! You people are insane!

Cameras aren't guns either but you can shoot with them.

Chill.

 

[Shroob]

No, it does NOT have shooting elements! Because the Portal device IS NOT A GUN. It does NOTHING when you hit enemies with it! The thing makes doors on walls!

This is maddening that people think that anything that projects anything is a gun! As if garden hoses or flashlights are guns! You people are insane!

No, because said paint, ya know, blows people apart when you hit them with it.

This is needlessly pedantic to be frank.

Is Portal a first-person puzzle game? Yes, it is, but it's also played like a FPS as well. It's literally called the Portal GUN. Does it fire bullets? No, but the fact that it requires you to aim and right click on something(surfaces in this case), is enough to make it a FPS.


Is it a Call of Duty kind of FPS? No, but it's 100% a Puzzle Platformer FPS.


You're in first person.

You shoot.

There doesn't need to be these imaginary barriers as to what constitutes an FPS. The lack of killing enemies doesn't mean a game isn't a FPS, just like throwing puzzle elements in a game like DOOM or Halo doesn't mean it's any less of an FPS.

 

[Phoenixio]

No, it does NOT have shooting elements! Because the Portal device IS NOT A GUN. It does NOTHING when you hit enemies with it! The thing makes doors on walls!

This is maddening that people think that anything that projects anything is a gun! As if garden hoses or flashlights are guns! You people are insane!

But a gun doesn't need to be shooting bullets that kill people... Ever heard of welding guns? What about paint guns to play paintball?

And anyways, whether the portal gun is a gun or not (it's really hard to write this, seriously...), we're talking about Shooters. A shooter doesn't require guns. It could be bows. It could be paint. It could be any projectile really, like baseballs. Why are you so objected to this? You clearly need to shoot and aim the damn portal gun, what more do you want? Headshots?

 

[PLATINUM7]

Cameras aren't guns either but you can shoot with them.

Chill.

This is needlessly pedantic to be frank.

Is Portal a first-person puzzle game? Yes, it is, but it's also played like a FPS as well. It's literally called the Portal GUN. Does it fire bullets? No, but the fact that it requires you to aim and right click on something(surfaces in this case), is enough to make it a FPS.


Is it a Call of Duty kind of FPS? No, but it's 100% a Puzzle Platformer FPS.


You're in first person.

You shoot.

There doesn't need to be these imaginary barriers as to what constitutes an FPS. The lack of killing enemies doesn't mean a game isn't a FPS, just like throwing puzzle elements in a game like DOOM or Halo doesn't mean it's any less of an FPS.

The implications of these posts is that Pokemon Snap is an on-rails FPS and that's neat.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Remember when Mysterious Murasame Castle got a port on the 3DS and people were like "OMG TAKAMARU IN SMASH???" and like a day later sakurai assist trophied him on pic of the day

Well it's technically a hint since Takamaru did appear in Smash, albeit as an assist trophy.

Other FPS candidates are JC Denton (Deus Ex), Sam "Serious" Stone (Serious Sam), Stranger (Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath), and lastly William "Bill" Overbeck (Left 4 Dead).

And Sgt. Cortez!

Yeah! It's Time to Split!

 

[Cosmic77]

We're still on this FPS thing? Honestly, does it really matter? Will Nintendo look at the Portal games and say, " Well, we would've added you, but sadly you're a FPS and that disqualifies you."

If this debate was ever about Smash, then we've moved on from it a long time ago.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Remember when Mysterious Murasame Castle got a port on the 3DS and people were like "OMG TAKAMARU IN SMASH???" and like a day later sakurai assist trophied him on pic of the day

The cruel irony being that Takamaru was made an AT in 4 because of his game not being released outside of Japan during character planning.

 

[osby]

I know I'm the weird man out here but my most wanted PFS fighter would be Left 4 Dead 2 Survivors. Not that they have any chance but I love the characters and it's one of the very few zombie apocalypse media I could get into.

But I also want Doomguy purely because of Isabelle.

 

[Ben Holt]

Oh look. Actual speculation in the Speculation Thread.
I think the most likely characters for Fighter's Pass Volume 2 are those from Third Parties already in Smash (not just playable characters).

Excluding the confirmed ARMS character (Reminder: It's Spring Man.), here are the ten most likely characters for Fighter's Pass Volume 2 in my completely infallible opinion.

1. Rex & Pyra
2. Crash Bandicoot
3. Heihachi
4. Ryu Hayabusa
5. Monster Hunter
6. Rayman
7. Doom Slayer
8. Shovel Knight
9. Master Chief
10. Bomberman

 

[Shroob]

I know I'm the weird man out here but my most wanted PFS fighter would be Left 4 Dead 2 Survivors. Not that they have any chance but I love the characters and it's one of the very few zombie apocalypse media I could get into.

But I also want Doomguy purely because of Isabelle.

JUMPIN' JEHOSAPHATS
CLOWNS?!

 

[Staarih]

Skipping the FPS discussion and jumpin back to Dragalia Lost:

I’d be down with Euden...
...as long as Dragalia Lost would release in my country, I wanna try it out. Seriously, with how succesful(?) it is, you’d think they’d be eager to spread it out more.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

People, people, why such the confusion about Portal's status as a game? It's realistically a First Person Puzzle Solver. Although the Portal Gun is used to fire a projectile in a given direction, the projectile in question is not of the offensive type, and rather is explicitly used for the solving of puzzles in a three-dimensional space. To garner the title of 'first person shooter,' the gun that one wields must fire a projectile, or series of projectiles, of an offensive variety, in a given direction (usually indicated by player input of some form.) The argument that games such as the Legend of Zelda are, thus, first person shooters, can be talked down with a simple description - a game is not categorised by small elements of gameplay, it is generally categorised by the primary focus/focuses of gameplay as a whole - hence why Zelda is (traditionally) an Action-Adventure game, as opposed to an FPS - it has some of those elements, but those elements are not as sizable a section of gameplay as the solving of puzzles, the traversing of dungeons, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

It's literally called the Portal GUN.

The game never refers to it by this name, that's only an unofficial name given to it by the community.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm just going to say this whole Portal conversation was very funny to read.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The game never refers to it by this name, that's only an unofficial name given to it by the community.

You try constantly saying "Aperture Science Handheld Portal Device".

 

[Shroob]

The game never refers to it by this name, that's only an unofficial name given to it by the community.

*Pushes up nerd glasses*


Ashctually, in Portal 2, Wheatly refers to it as a "Gun" or even "Portal Gun" on multiple occasions.

https://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Wheatley_voice_lines

Check for yourself.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

*Pushes up nerd glasses*


Ashctually, in Portal 2, Wheatly refers to it as a "Gun" or even "Portal Gun" on multiple occasions.

https://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Wheatley_voice_lines

Check for yourself.

Wheatley is also explicitly designed to be a moron. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Shroob]

Wheatley is also explicitly designed to be a moron. Draw your own conclusions.

I stan with this moron if only because he's got a sexy British accent.

 

[osby]

I stan with this moron if only because he's got a sexy British accent.

Finally, quality arguments I can stand behind.

 

[Ben Holt]

Finally, quality arguments I can stand behind.

Cor blimey. Ats good reasnin'. Innit?

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Portal is an FPS in the same way as Smash Bros is a platformer.

-Platforming in Smash is not the primary goal, but it's definitely part of the core gameplay and required in order to fight well.
-Shooting is not the primary goal of Portal, but it's part of the core gameplay and required in order to solve the puzzles.

The fact that shooting in Portal is not offensive, means absolutely nothing... it's still FPS gameplay, though Portal is primarily a puzzle game, so that's the genre people usually tag it under, similar to how Smash is usually called a fighting game only.

I've seen an experimental game (I can't remember where, it was probably a demo or something) that consisted in a completely white world without any shading, where you had to shoot black paint balls around you in order to show the shape of the world and understand where to go. It was still called FPS, experimental FPS. Sadly I don't have more informations about this, I saw a gameplay footage of that stuff some years ago.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Cor blimey. Ats good reasnin'. Innit?

Yangus. I want you to appear in every Dragon Quest game from now on.

Invade smash, while you're at it.

 

[Gribbo]

Portal is an FPS in the same way as Smash Bros is a platformer.

-Platforming in Smash is not the primary goal, but it's definitely part of the core gameplay and required in order to fight well.
-Shooting is not the primary goal of Portal, but it's part of the core gameplay and required in order to solve the puzzles.

The fact that shooting in Portal is not offensive, means absolutely nothing... it's still FPS gameplay, though Portal is primarily a puzzle game, so that's the genre people usually tag it under, similar to how Smash is usually called a fighting game only.

I've seen an experimental game (I can't remember where, it was probably a demo or something) that consisted in a completely white world without any shading, where you had to shoot black paint balls around you in order to show the shape of the world and understand where to go. It was still called FPS, experimental FPS. Sadly I don't have more informations about this, I saw a gameplay footage of that stuff some years ago.

Are you talking about The Unfinished Swan?

 

[snowgolem]

I don't think the idea of a non-Sakurai Smash is inherintly bad. I'd like to see someone else's take on the series, and if it's not that great we still have Ultimate.

I know you made this post forever ago but I just woke up so- The thing is, what if the new director makes a crap game, but adds your most wanted character? Do you go and play the crap game? Or stick with Ultimate?

The game never refers to it by this name, that's only an unofficial name given to it by the community.

If you go on it’s wiki page, you’ll find its entity names.
https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Aperture_Science_Handheld_Portal_Device
They all include ‘gun’. The first one is even ‘weapon_portalgun’. It doesn’t get more FPS than that.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I don't think the idea of a non-Sakurai Smash is inherintly bad. I'd like to see someone else's take on the series, and if it's not that great we still have Ultimate.

Well... I was playing M.U.G.E.N, and something occurred to me - a traditional 2.5d fighting game, kinda like Street Fighter, KoF, or Mortal Kombat, but for Smash. I mean, you'd be able to reference a lot more source material with command inputs and such, such as Link, Simon, Cloud, Joker, and Bayonetta having more of their items, magic, moves and other such things. (After all, Cloud and Joker massively lose a lot of their magical abilities, Link and Simon have a lot of other items and such, and Bayonetta is from a Platinum game.) Furthermore, I'd love to see it in a sort of psudeo-anime style - kind of like the FighterZ artstyle - as I personally think it would suit the style and such of Smash as a whole. (For an example, check out that animated Link vs Pit video, it's gorgeous.) However, still having the 'classic' Smash alongside that would be good as well - more as a party game, and then the 'fighting game' can be this new one (where Nintendo would hopefully focus more on online play and such I CAN DREAM OKAY)

 

[Vintage Creep]

Thanks for the terrifying thought of Smash without Sakurai

People adapted to Mario and Zelda without Miyamoto as well

 

[snowgolem]

Well... I was playing M.U.G.E.N, and something occurred to me - a traditional 2.5d fighting game, kinda like Street Fighter, KoF, or Mortal Kombat, but for Smash. I mean, you'd be able to reference a lot more source material with command inputs and such, such as Link, Simon, Cloud, Joker, and Bayonetta having more of their items, magic, moves and other such things. (After all, Cloud and Joker massively lose a lot of their magical abilities, Link and Simon have a lot of other items and such, and Bayonetta is from a Platinum game.) Furthermore, I'd love to see it in a sort of psudeo-anime style - kind of like the FighterZ artstyle - as I personally think it would suit the style and such of Smash as a whole. (For an example, check out that animated Link vs Pit video, it's gorgeous.) However, still having the 'classic' Smash alongside that would be good as well - more as a party game, and then the 'fighting game' can be this new one (where Nintendo would hopefully focus more on online play and such I CAN DREAM OKAY)

And everybody who likes the original ‘party’ mode but competitively would have to play with items on

People adapted to Mario and Zelda without Miyamoto as well

Yeah, but I’m 99.9% sure that it wouldn’t be the same here. The director wouldn’t work as hard, and wouldn’t care as much about the fans. I may be entirely wrong but there’s always that worry.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

People adapted to Mario and Zelda without Miyamoto as well

But... Mario literally became Sonic after Galaxy 2. Other than Odyssey, I personally can't think of a massively game-changing Mario game since then, besides Maker, but that's not really a mainline Mario game (IMO). I mean...
SMB - Saved the gaming industry
Lost Levels - More of the same, fair play.
SMB2 - Tried something really different to the gameplay we already had. New artstyle, too.
SMB3 - Improved on original formula, added lots of new content, critically received positively. Again, a new artstyle.
SMW - Introduced a few new mechanics, but mostly added more. Brand new artstyle.
SMW2 - Rethought the mechanics of SMW, and pushed the limits of hardware. New, and gorgeous, artstyle.
SM64 - Introduced a whole new dimension.
SMS - Added brand new mechanics, tried stuff that had never been done before in Mario. Really nice design.
SMG - Incredible innovation once again.
SMG2 - More of the same, but with the same approach, and still very popular.
SMO - Incredible innovation, once more.

Meanwhile, we got,
NSMB - A fresh new outlook on the game's roots - good all round!
NSMBW - A bigger experience of the same, still well liked.
NSMB2 - Was coins the only thing you could do here? I mean... it's got a few new things, I suppose? Same artstyle, though.
NSMBU - Uhh... chief, did we just release the game again?
3DW - It's this game again, but in 3d. Cat Rosalina, I guess, so the whole game is original?

I don't like where this is going... Mario seems to be going in the same direction as Sonic in a sense... Mario is becoming more of a marketing tool than an innovative game series. It... it kinda hurts.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

In b4 the FPS rep is Tracer.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

In b4 the FPS rep is Tracer.

Tracer would just be an anime gun user.

 

[snowgolem]

In b4 the FPS rep is Tracer.

inb4 we don’t get an FPS rep

 

[blackghost]

You mean like howdoes with?

not the same thing.
rpg characters in smash have had abilities that aren't their own since melee. fighting game characters have never done this.
mostly because to Sakurai (a former competitive fgc player) the moveset of a fighting game character is more definitive of their character than an RPG character. The only time sakurai has invented a move for a fighting game character is terry upair. the rest can all be seen being used by said character in their source games.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

In the next #NintendoPower Podcast, we’ll be revisiting StarTropics, available now via #NintendoSwitchOnline. Play along with us and share your thoughts about the game below! pic.twitter.com/zsywRX7qFX

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) May 18, 2020

So, StarTropics is going to be in a Nintendo Power Podcast, and maybe this is foreshadowing for Mike Jones in Smash.

............as a Spirit Event.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

rpg characters in smash have had abilities that aren't their own since melee.

The sad thing is, a lot of RPG characters lose mechanics as well. Cloud lost magic and Materia as a whole - which, let's be real, are big parts of FFVII - and don't forget the fact that Ness never had PK Fire, PK Thunder, or PSI Magnet in Earthbound. (Although, actually, it's interesting to see how this has been explained over the years - it seems as though the Ness we have in Smash is actually an alternate counterpart to the Earthbound Ness, with slightly different story - seems as Melee explained these as Paula teaching him these.)

 

[blackghost]

But... Mario literally became Sonic after Galaxy 2. Other than Odyssey, I personally can't think of a massively game-changing Mario game since then, besides Maker, but that's not really a mainline Mario game (IMO). I mean...
SMB - Saved the gaming industry
Lost Levels - More of the same, fair play.
SMB2 - Tried something really different to the gameplay we already had. New artstyle, too.
SMB3 - Improved on original formula, added lots of new content, critically received positively. Again, a new artstyle.
SMW - Introduced a few new mechanics, but mostly added more. Brand new artstyle.
SMW2 - Rethought the mechanics of SMW, and pushed the limits of hardware. New, and gorgeous, artstyle.
SM64 - Introduced a whole new dimension.
SMS - Added brand new mechanics, tried stuff that had never been done before in Mario. Really nice design.
SMG - Incredible innovation once again.
SMG2 - More of the same, but with the same approach, and still very popular.
SMO - Incredible innovation, once more.

Meanwhile, we got,
NSMB - A fresh new outlook on the game's roots - good all round!
NSMBW - A bigger experience of the same, still well liked.
NSMB2 - Was coins the only thing you could do here? I mean... it's got a few new things, I suppose? Same artstyle, though.
NSMBU - Uhh... chief, did we just release the game again?
3DW - It's this game again, but in 3d. Cat Rosalina, I guess, so the whole game is original?

I don't like where this is going... Mario seems to be going in the same direction as Sonic in a sense... Mario is becoming more of a marketing tool than an innovative game series. It... it kinda hurts.

wow until i was really active on this board i never realized how brutal/spoiled some nintendo fans come across as. Every game does not have to innovate to be good or worthy of some standard.
Nintendo has with galaxy and the 3d series and the new series basically said that if we still have ideas thiers no reason to recreate or move on from an idea yet.

some of the points you placed on older games such as pushing hardware to its limits and reworking mechanics also apply to later games. you are also ignoring the games like mario kingdom battle which at the very least was a massive innovation and overall a good game even if fans pushed back for arbitrary reasons and mario maker established itself as the premier level design game ever made with a massive community and incredible possibilities without being too intimidating to approach.

mario is not sonic not even close. sonic gets a good game once or twice a decade and one of those is a fan made game. the rest are just heavily inspired from past games (sonic generations). sonic hasnt been in a game as good as mario odyssey in what decades?

The sad thing is, a lot of RPG characters lose mechanics as well. Cloud lost magic and Materia as a whole - which, let's be real, are big parts of FFVII - and don't forget the fact that Ness never had PK Fire, PK Thunder, or PSI Magnet in Earthbound. (Although, actually, it's interesting to see how this has been explained over the years - it seems as though the Ness we have in Smash is actually an alternate counterpart to the Earthbound Ness, with slightly different story - seems as Melee explained these as Paula teaching him these.)

i didnt i talked about ness in my post.

materia isnt a cloud specefic mechanic its a final fantasy 7 mechanic and the fact cloud has limit is more than enough to make up for him not having materia. plus people dont look at cloud and even expect much magic, sure he has it but he's known as "that anime dude with the sword." which is what his smash portrayal is. there are other characters in smash that have magic and do not use it or much of it including: ganon, bayonetta, rosalina, peach, cloud, and joker(?).
additionally, representation is not just about characters' cloud's stage has summons and materia on it as well so its not a good comparison.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Cloud lost magic and Materia as a whole - which, let's be real, are big parts of FFVI

I think the reason for that is the Buster Sword being so large, and because of the Limit Break system (with the Limit Break system being more centralizing). It's Final Fantasy VII's defining trait, and it would be silly not to include, but since (I'm pretty sure) there aren't any Limit Break Magic attacks, they had to go with Cloud's Buster Sword attacks, which is convenient because the hunk of steel is what Cloud as a character design is known for.

So what I'm saying is, we need to bring in Tifa to show off the Materia system (besides the Summon Materia on Midgar) and use magic.

 

[ZelDan]

............as a Spirit Event.

Honestly, Star Tropics getting acknowledged at all would be fine by me.

I never really wanted Mike as a playable fighter, but still think it's lame they haven't given Star Tropics any sort of content at all.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

you are also ignoring the games like mario kingdom battle

Okay, that one's on me - I forgot about it, I'll concede.

mario is not sonic not even close. sonic gets a good game once or twice a decade and one of those is a fan made game. the rest are just heavily inspired from past games (sonic generations). sonic hasnt been in a game as good as mario odyssey in what decades?

Never said the franchise is exactly like Sonic - more so that it's heading in that direction, based on marketing. Besides, it isn't like Mario games are unplayable by any degree - they are made with respect to the franchise. But, if it keeps heading in that direction, I fear the franchise may begin to lose quality over marketability, and... I don't want that to happen. As much as I don't seem like I'm saying this, I respect Nintendo - but what I am saying is, if their biggest franchise goes like this... it's not a good start. I don't want Nintendo to go like Sega did - I'm a big Sega fan too, ironically As I say, though - feel free to take it as you will.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

there are other characters in smash that have magic and do not use it or much of it including: ganon...

Ganondorf uses a ton of magic in Smash actually. He just does it to enhance his physical capabilities, which is kinda weird.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ganondorf uses a ton of magic in Smash actually. He just does it to enhance his physical capabilities, which is kinda weird.

Is it really weird when he's defined by "Triforce of Power"? He shows power. It actually fits pretty well.