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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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osby

osby

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Ben Holt said:
And Mii Costumes and Spirits. Let's go, Shovel Knight!!!
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To be fair, even if we get Spring Man, this doesn't mean every non-playable character has their chances skyrocket.

I'd say it's a positive sign for Rex but not so much for characters like Krystal or Isaac, seeing how there seems to be a focus of Switch-originated characters.
 
True Blue Warrior

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Ben Holt said:
Excuse me?
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Read this.

osby said:
To be fair, even if we get Spring Man, this doesn't mean every non-playable character has their chances skyrocket.

I'd say it's a positive sign for Rex but not so much for characters like Krystal or Isaac, seeing how there seems to be a focus of Switch-originated characters.
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Watch as a new Star Fox game with Krystal ends up being announced in the next direct! :p
 
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Ben Holt

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osby said:
To be fair, even if we get Spring Man, this doesn't mean every non-playable character has their chances skyrocket.

I'd say it's a positive sign for Rex but not so much for characters like Krystal or Isaac, seeing how there seems to be a focus of Switch-originated characters.
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I understand that. After all, the Pass was chosen ahead of time, so Spirit Events probably rule out characters, but it is certainly a good sign for fans of characters trapped in Assist Trophy Purgatory.
 
osby

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UberPyro64 said:
How do you guys feel about this Fighter Pass Vol. 2?
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I'd be a little sad that we didn't get Spring Man but at least Smashing Ramen would be happy. Other than that, both Dante and Sora are amazing. I don't really care about the rest but those two would make me content.
 
Will

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UberPyro64 said:
How do you guys feel about this Fighter Pass Vol. 2?
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how the **** did dante get in before the arms character

its alright tho. would be surprising considering sora got deconfirmed.
 
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UberPyro64

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Whoops, I edited the post too late for it to make a difference. I have a better version of my slightly crazy Fighter Pass Vol. 2 predictions now. Crawfish on the PapaGenos Discord server made it for me!
Fighter Pass Vol. 2.png
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Evil Trapezium

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UberPyro64 said:
Whoops, I edited the post too late for it to make a difference. I have a better version of my slightly crazy Fighter Pass Vol. 2 predictions now. Crawfish on the PapaGenos Discord server made it for me!
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Not bad at all. Crash, Dante, Ryu Hayabusa and Sora are great picks and Gordon would be a decent gunner character but I suppose he would mostly be fighting with his crowbar.
 
osby

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Mamboo07 said:
An Assist Trophy can't become a fighter in the same game. For example Little Mac was in Brawl then a fighter in Smash 4, same with Isabelle and Dark Samus.
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Giving counterexamples isn't the same thing as proving your claim.

You can say that we have strong evidence suggesting that Assist Trophies won't become fighters in the same game they are added but in the end, you're only saying "this didn't happen in Brawl and Smash 4" (and Brawl didn't even have DLC, making your argument less strong). That doesn't mean Ultimate will be the same.

By the same logic, you can "prove" ARMS won't get a newcomer in Ultimate because Splatoon didn't get one in Smash 4.

I don't want to be lecturing but I think this is a good place to stop and think before we speak in absolutes about character speculation. Byleth and an ARMS character disproved a lot of people's theories (including my own).
 
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CapitaineCrash

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I really suggest that if Spring man is the playable Arms character you should always hype responsibly. Arms is in a different situation than the other assist trophies because 1) It's a very recent game and still kind of relevant and 2) it was planned to be add in the base game. Even if Spring-man is confirmed and destroy the "assist trophy rule", I wouldn't get my hopes up on Isaac, Krystal, Geno etc. They are all so different characters and even if we do get one assist trophies doesn't mean that we will get more after that.
 
EricTheGamerman

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Seems like quite a few people want Spring Man so they can claim another rule got broken that favors their most wanted of choice rather than actually wanting Spring Man himself, which just kind of feels like a zero sum game as there is absolutely nothing indicating that other Assists would really have much of a chance to get upgraded even if Spring Man gets in. It's not going to suddenly open the flood gates for Assist promotions, and all the things that hold something like Golden Sun back regularly (I'm not picking on Golden Sun, I really enjoy the series, so I always just use it as an example) is still going to be present post a same game Assist promotion. The calculus doesn't really change that much for any Assist Trophy I can think of except for maybe Waluigi, and even then Waluigi doesn't have the ARMS element of being a brand new IP that Nintendo is trying to actively promote and build that currently doesn't have a playable character in Smash.

I'm not saying additional promotions can't happen, but it's worth examining each one more specifically and why they would happen as opposed to generalizing one's promotion as a definitive positive to those others. And also worth saying, if you like other ARMS characters more, don't just support Spring Man so Assist Trophies look back on the menu.
 
Rie Sonomura

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CapitaineCrash said:
I really suggest that if Spring man is the playable Arms character you should always hype responsibly. Arms is in a different situation than the other assist trophies because 1) It's a very recent game and still kind of relevant and 2) it was planned to be add in the base game. Even if Spring-man is confirmed and destroy the "assist trophy rule", I wouldn't get my hopes up on Isaac, Krystal, Geno etc. They are all so different characters and even if we do get one assist trophies doesn't mean that we will get more after that.
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Geno’s a Spirit, not an Assist Trophy.

nevertheless I do think the ARMS character will be one of the five Spirited ones which includes Spring Man as he’s also a Spirit. IMO I still think Min Min is the most likely though due to popularity factor
 
3BitSaurus

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EricTheGamerman said:
Seems like quite a few people want Spring Man so they can claim another rule got broken that favors their most wanted of choice rather than actually wanting Spring Man himself, which just kind of feels like a zero sum game as there is absolutely nothing indicating that other Assists would really have much of a chance to get upgraded even if Spring Man gets in. It's not going to suddenly open the flood gates for Assist promotions, and all the things that hold something like Golden Sun back regularly (I'm not picking on Golden Sun, I really enjoy the series, so I always just use it as an example) is still going to be present post a same game Assist promotion. The calculus doesn't really change that much for any Assist Trophy I can think of except for maybe Waluigi, and even then Waluigi doesn't have the ARMS element of being a brand new IP that Nintendo is trying to actively promote and build that currently doesn't have a playable character in Smash.

I'm not saying additional promotions can't happen, but it's worth examining each one more specifically and why they would happen as opposed to generalizing one's promotion as a definitive positive to those others. And also worth saying, if you like other ARMS characters more, don't just support Spring Man so Assist Trophies look back on the menu.
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Eh, to be fair, even if Assists upgrades aren't a thing for the rest of DLC, it does at least kill the argument against upgrades for future Smash games. That's already a good thing in my book.

Regarding our previous discussion... I got the impression you were adressing my point from the perspective of whether or not more niche Nintendo characters will be a thing in DLC, which is not really what I was saying. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Dinoman96

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I mean, yeah, the vast majority of assist trophies are just characters Sakurai was never going to add. Basically two categories:

a. characters that really don't make sense as playable fighters (I.E Andross, Mother Brain, Nintendog, Moon, etc)
b. characters that could technically work as fighters, but just weren't considered important/popular enough by the dev team for it (I.E Lyn, Isaac, Krystal, Waluigi, Ashley, etc)

Spring Man was always a special case because he's a character that would of been playable in the base game had there been better timing with ARMS. They were obviously under the assumption that there'd be only one Fighter Pass back in 2018, and Nintendo decided not to prioritise ARMS for it, so they just threw in the AT, as well as the spirits and Mii costumes, to at least ensure that Nintendo's big new IP still got something in the event that it wouldn't make it as DLC. But obviously things changed in 2019, so I don't think the spirits or even the AT should affect how they select the ARMS rep.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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3BitSaurus said:
Eh, to be fair, even if Assists upgrades aren't a thing for the rest of DLC, it does at least kill the argument against upgrades for future Smash games. That's already a good thing in my book.

Regarding our previous discussion... I got the impression you were adressing my point from the perspective of whether or not more niche Nintendo characters will be a thing in DLC, which is not really what I was saying. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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I don't actually agree at all because any DLC is planned alongside the base game will still be victim to the Assist Trophies disconfirm for DLC. The only time DLC opens up is post base game when you're moving well beyond the original plans the game released with. It's the same reason that we have a new set of Spirits that almost certainly seem to disconfirm fighters with the new DLC sets because its indicative of how they're treating a property/franchise/character at a given moment when other content is being planned. Assists disconfirming, like Spirits, was always more of a logistical issue than a philosophic one. Now that we're past the logistical part with future DLC, we've moved to the more philosophic based issues of "Does this character warrant inclusion at this point?" Which is why ARMS is rather well positioned to be a sole upgrade versus other properties barring some big additional push for a franchise/character that currently sits as an Assist Trophy.

As for our previous discussion, that was just me tying back in the overall discussion to current Smash DLC and why we may not see those properties in our current DLC. Speaking to a future perspective for Smash, I think everything I mentioned still applies in similar ways as all the issues that currently non represented franchises have will just be exacerbated by the passage of time unless Nintendo decides to push them. Especially when future games may not have the same amount of roster space or have different focuses than Ultimate. But it was, overall discussion on Smash and more niche properties/properties that sold less overall.
 
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"FP1 will be all the DLC SSBU gets"
"CP5 has to be a third party"
"Only first parties that debuted very recently are allowed"
"ATs won't become playable via DLC"
"Okay, only Spring Man will become playable"
"CP6 has to be a hype third-party to end the pass with a bang!"
"Here's how Crash Bandicoot can still win."
 
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TheCJBrine

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I think that, if Spring Man is promoted, then it shows they don’t give a crap if a character is already an AT, Spirit, etc. or not. He may be the only promotion, but they could definitely have other already-represented characters from the basegame in mind.
 
True Blue Warrior

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Guynamednelson said:
"FP1 will be all the DLC SSBU gets"
"CP5 has to be a third party"
"Only first parties that debuted very recently are allowed"
"ATs won't become playable via DLC"
"Okay, only Spring Man will become playable"
"CP6 has to be a hype third-party to end the pass with a bang!"
"Here's how Crash Bandicoot can still win."
Click to expand...
I mean, he can still be in. I just don’t expect another third-party focused FP. I expect there to be one or two more in this pass (and yes, this would include Geno should he hypothetically be a playable character)
 
Cutie Gwen

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EricTheGamerman said:
I don't actually agree at all because any DLC is planned alongside the base game will still be victim to the Assist Trophies disconfirm for DLC. The only time DLC opens up is post base game when you're moving well beyond the original plans the game released with. It's the same reason that we have a new set of Spirits that almost certainly seem to disconfirm fighters with the new DLC sets because its indicative of how they're treating a property/franchise/character at a given moment when other content is being planned. Assists disconfirming, like Spirits, was always more of a logistical issue than a philosophic one. Now that we're past the logistical part with future DLC, we've moved to the more philosophic based issues of "Does this character warrant inclusion at this point?" Which is why ARMS is rather well positioned to be a sole upgrade versus other properties barring some big additional push for a franchise/character that currently sits as an Assist Trophy.

As for our previous discussion, that was just me tying back in the overall discussion to current Smash DLC and why we may not see those properties in our current DLC. Speaking to a future perspective for Smash, I think everything I mentioned still applies in similar ways as all the issues that currently non represented franchises have will just be exacerbated by the passage of time unless Nintendo decides to push them. Especially when future games may not have the same amount of roster space or have different focuses than Ultimate. But it was, overall discussion on Smash and more niche properties/properties that sold less overall.
Click to expand...
Ehhhhh V2 seems to have been made after the game went gold unlike V1
 
Goombaic

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No matter what, I think Sakurai will have to address spirits and ATs position as possible characters when the character presentation finally comes. If it's Spring Man or any of the other 4, he could say something like "despite already being in the game, this character proved to be popular enough to be included." If it isn't, he'll probably say something cheeky like "as these characters are already in the game, I looked elsewhere within the game's roster for a new character."
 
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