Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[3BitSaurus]

So let me get this straight.

The different attributes system would work similarly to Hero's Down Special. You KO an opponent, you level up and then a screen pops up on top of his hud (Where the Hero down special similarity starts) and then you pick from attack, defense and speed or something like that.

I think I could get behind that but I don't think combining moves from different classes would work unless this chosen undead was an every class character like the deprived set but then again you'd have certain weapons that clearly better than others in terms of versatility and it'd probably be better for them to work with one main weapon which presents my problem.

Could be - isn't there a boss that uses attacks from several different player classes, though?

There's also no character with multiple RPG classes in Smash, so having Chosen Undead using attributes from different classes could be interesting. Main weapon could still be a sword, since it's the most prominent one, but other ones could be incorporated as well for his normals (like tilts and Smash attacks).

 

[GKMLTTSB]

For Ultimate I'm not expecting anymore SNK content, though there is definitely more hope for the next game. Terry's inclusion has shifted a ton of people's focus onto SNK so I think another character from them could be possible as long as the demand is there.

I have my doubts that the next game will have enough breadth of scope to justify a second SNK rep, and I doubt they'd choose anyone else before bringing Terry back. For a lot of characters this game really is the only chance they've got of getting the Smash kiss, IMO.

Though it's kind of hard to get hyped for 'next time', honestly. Switch may well be my last modern console, so I'd like to enjoy the resurgence of these characters in the now.

 

[SvartWolf]

Since Terry has a unique mechanic with his spot dodge, it would be interesting to see future newcomers explore unique mechanics with other defensive options.

I know Dark Souls combat revolves around rolling and parrying, so it would be interesting to see a Dark Souls character have unique mechanics for the rolling and parrying actions in smash.

What are other potential newcomers that could take advantage of unique mechanics wit defensive options such as shielding, spot dodging, parrying, rolling, and air dodging?

maybe a roll attack? but riposte i think would be a little too complex... Ive always felt that if teh dark souls character has a shield a walking while shielding mechanic (and a stamina bar as a way of resource managing) could be interesting unique gimmicks that immediatly make them different to other shield users.

 

[KatKit]

That moment when you realize that Leona doesn't make an Arena cameo. "Sayonara..." indeed.

 

[Deleted member]

That moment when you realize that Leona doesn't make an Arena cameo.

Gives me more reason to main her, though I'm satisfied with the female cameos in the stage (IKIMASSUUU!!).

But yeah, Leona was a big part of the Orochi saga, to which most of where they got the cameos from (excluding Tung Fu Rue). I kinda expected stuff from NESTS onwards, but I got my jams from K' and Crimson so...yeah.

 

[WeirdSandwich]

Wolfenstein was developed first by Carmack, and there were a lot of elements in that game that DOOM took inspiration from. Like to me, it doesn't matter whether it came first - since each new game brought its own things which influenced the genre (for example Rare claimed that they took inspiration from DOOM, but the things that they brought in such as multiplayer/scoped weapons/stealth were brand new and influenced the genre in its own ways). I just don't see how DOOM is the "most influential" just because it came first - there are many other FPS who have left their marks in the genre too.

Also, i haven't seen any indication that the first DOOM sold that much (being bundled in a pc program doesn't mean that everyone who had a pc played it). The spinoffs also bombed and there isn't anything to show that it was anything compatible to the cultural penetration of DQ (which is still a household name. I doubt even Halo/Overwatch hit those levels of popularity in the West). All things considered, my intention is not to put down DOOM - far from it! It's just that i feel that fans overblow its importance which isn't necessary if you want to push for the character.


Yea. It's not so much being the first game out there, but whether or not you can sustain the momentum and become a big franchise by its own merits.


Sure he did, but you can see that he was more taken by Half-Life. It's good to see that he liked both series through.

Yes, being the first is not the most important, even Wolfenstein was preceded by others. However Doom was the first to have such a wide mainstream appeal. It even popularised FPS multiplayer, being the first game to coin the term "deathmatch". Raw sales numbers don't show the full picture, since a lot of people played (the first episode at least) through shareware without needing to buy the full game.

It didn't sustain that popularity, since Id Software moved on to Quake and after that their major talent began to leave. But for a few years in the mid 90s, it achieved some of the greatest hights in gaming. I agree that it's nowhere near DQ nowadays, few games are.

Anyway, thanks for being polite with this conversation. I'm not trying to shout over your opinion, I just want to illustrate why Doom fans consider the series so important.

 

[Deleted member]

That moment when you realize that Leona doesn't make an Arena cameo.

Team America is forever forgotten.

 

[Deleted member]

Team America is forever forgotten.

When at the very least they're in All Stars.

 

[SvartWolf]

BTW, sometime ive been wondering is if there is any chance of bringing trophies back, or something akin (like a model viewer) I know that sakurai said that making trophies was too much effort for very little payback.. teh issue is, that if we count only 2 trophies per fighter, and one trophie for most of the 3d models already in teh game (assists, bosses, stage cameos, Items) I'm pretty sure it would be possible to have more trophies than melee. I was thinking this before terry being added, and bringing 21 new character models to the game.

something akin the Trophy system of Guilty Gear Xrd revelator would be amazing honestly.

 

[Deleted member]

When at the very least they're in All Stars.

Honestly, that's like the most interesting thing about that game for me.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, that's like the most interesting thing about that game for me.

Here's to me still trying to pull for Mecha Goenitz haha

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

maybe a roll attack? but riposte i think would be a little too complex... Ive always felt that if teh dark souls character has a shield a walking while shielding mechanic (and a stamina bar as a way of resource managing) could be interesting unique gimmicks that immediatly make them different to other shield users.

A roll attack sounds interesting, after all now there’s a precedent with Terry getting an extra move than the rest of the roster. Maybe Riposte could work as a special move, kind of like a smaller version of Ridley’s down b stab. The shield and stamina bar sounds like a great idea!

I have not played a Souls game before, but the gameplay potential for Smash seems quite interesting to me and the solemn dark fantasy style would be an interesting change of pace from the rest of the roster.

 

[Flyboy]

That moment when you realize that Leona doesn't make an Arena cameo. "Sayonara..." indeed.

I am similarly sad about it, but I did realize that pretty much all the cameos outside of Iori were from the first few games or Fatal Fury...

But also, I doubly realized that they capped the amount of simultaneous cameos to two! Because in KOF your two teammates stand behind you as you fight! So the Ikari Warriors appear together (rip Leona and Heidern) because you're the third person on the team! Apparently if you use Pokemon trainer you'll always only have one other cameo, since Red/Leaf is the other team member.

I'm just overjoyed to see King there, I can't lie.

 

[Deleted member]

BTW, sometime ive been wondering is if there is any chance of bringing trophies back, or something akin (like a model viewer) I know that sakurai said that making trophies was too much effort for very little payback.. teh issue is, that if we count only 2 trophies per fighter, and one trophie for most of the 3d models already in teh game (assists, bosses, stage cameos, Items) I'm pretty sure it would be possible to have more trophies than melee. I was thinking this before terry being added, and bringing 21 new character models to the game.

something akin the Trophy system of Guilty Gear Xrd revelator would be amazing honestly.

Maybe, but at the same time doing something like that would pretty much exclude minor franchises that only managed to get an appearance with Spirits. While I doubt throphies would come back at least I could see a model viewer, which would be nice.

 

[Deleted member]

I am similarly sad about it, but I did realize that pretty much all the cameos outside of Iori were from the first few games or Fatal Fury...

But also, I doubly realized that they capped the amount of simultaneous cameos to two! Because in KOF your two teammates stand behind you as you fight! So the Ikari Warriors appear together (rip Leona and Heidern) because you're the third person on the team! Apparently if you use Pokemon trainer you'll always only have one other cameo, since Red/Leaf is the other team member.

I'm just overjoyed to see King there, I can't lie.

I was pretty shocked we got the Team Korea dudes from '94. Didn't think they would be chosen over people like Kula or Leona, but I see Sakurai was aiming for early days.

 

[TheTuninator]

Since Terry has a unique mechanic with his spot dodge, it would be interesting to see future newcomers explore unique mechanics with other defensive options.

I know Dark Souls combat revolves around rolling and parrying, so it would be interesting to see a Dark Souls character have unique mechanics for the rolling and parrying actions in smash.

What are other potential newcomers that could take advantage of unique mechanics wit defensive options such as shielding, spot dodging, parrying, rolling, and air dodging?

Could potentially be problematic, but Reimu could easily have her "focused movement" hitbox appear during shielding/dodging, as that's a defensive mechanic which the entire core series' gameplay revolves around.

 

[Deleted member]

Could potentially be problematic, but Reimu could easily have her "focused movement" hitbox appear during shielding/dodging, as that's a defensive mechanic which the entire core series' gameplay revolves around.

Dude I clicked your Fire Emblem quote and responded accidentally in the Edelgard thread lol!

 

[KatKit]

I am similarly sad about it, but I did realize that pretty much all the cameos outside of Iori were from the first few games or Fatal Fury...

But also, I doubly realized that they capped the amount of simultaneous cameos to two! Because in KOF your two teammates stand behind you as you fight! So the Ikari Warriors appear together (rip Leona and Heidern) because you're the third person on the team! Apparently if you use Pokemon trainer you'll always only have one other cameo, since Red/Leaf is the other team member.

I'm just overjoyed to see King there, I can't lie.

I noticed that, too. Though the cut-off date for cameos seems to be around KoF 98' at least, and she's still a glaring omission because not only is she popular with fans, she's a favorite for quite a few SNK devs as well.

With that being said, same... My go-to team is King/Athena/Yuri, so I got lucky. And we got so much more than anticipated overall, but it never hurts to poor one out for the homies lol.

Anyway, that level is so fun; Ryu/Ken vs. Terry on that stage doesn't even feel like Smash anymore. OMG.

 

[blackghost]

im not really for a souls character that series has incredibly clunky characters and gameplay. not to mention souls combat really just block and counter-attack. and repeat. Theres a reason games like sekiro and bloodborne were seen as upgrades.

theres many ways to look at what could come next but its clear that sakurai wants dlc to add new mechanics to smash as evidenced by most of the dlc excluding banjo. we have characters with unique offensive weapons either in cancels, the number of tools, or a new stance/upgrade. The only mechanic i can think of on offense that hasnt been done is a character that can cancel specials into other specials. The prime candidates that can fit this role are dante and 2b. action game characters can frequently use unique actions in fighting games and i think these two would do nicely.

we'vecome a long way i rmeebr supporting saber way back during ultimate speculation and got major pushback. I'd love to see her in smash its a good fit. I'd love to see her in and Gilgamesh in her sage background sitting on his throne.

id also support tracer. quick mid range fighter with her rewind (although i still have no idea how this would work in matches)

im not on the geno bandwagon i understand some of the smash fandoms, i dont get that one at all.
doomguy i have mixed feeling on he could be fun to play but he also might not be. i dont get the same feelings on many other speculated characters like Amaterasu, Heihachi, Ryu,or others.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Could be - isn't there a boss that uses attacks from several different player classes, though?

I wouldn't know since I've only played the first game and never got that far.

There's also no character with multiple RPG classes in Smash, so having Chosen Undead using attributes from different classes could be interesting. Main weapon could still be a sword, since it's the most prominent one, but other ones could be incorporated as well for his normals (like tilts and Smash attacks).

The problem with that is that the Chosen Undead would be wielding the Sword in his idle animations and walking. For it him to suddenly put it away and stab someone with a spear really feels jarring since you expect to use the sword when using a forward tilt. Sure Link and Hero have the odd kick in their standard moves but they are always visible for the player to see and not pulled out from their pockets.

I'd imagine that his other weapons and spells would be saved for his specials because well, they're special. Again that comes back to the initial problem I have which is that you'd be presenting a drastically narrow scope of the character by going for their most basic concept.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Haha, yeah, it would be nice if we got another SNK fighter, wouldn't it?

...Wouldn't it, Sakurai?

It would.

But also, I doubly realized that they capped the amount of simultaneous cameos to two! Because in KOF your two teammates stand behind you as you fight! So the Ikari Warriors appear together (rip Leona and Heidern) because you're the third person on the team! Apparently if you use Pokemon trainer you'll always only have one other cameo, since Red/Leaf is the other team member.

I wish the members were less random and they showed up as their more canon teams. It's neat that you're the third guy, but I'd have rather seen the whole team show up along the edge.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

 

[DarthEnderX]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5

1. Alucard
2. Zero
3. Shadow(as a Sonic echo)
4. Black Knight(as an Ike echo)
5. Spring Man

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

1. Waluigi
2. Isaac
3. Krystal
4. Ashley
5. Lyn

 

[Sari]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

1. Ashley
2. Waluigi
3. Lyn
4. Bomberman
5. Skull Kid

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

1. Lyn
2. Isaac
3. Spring Man
4. Alucard
5. The sleeper pick - Yuri Kozukata. Why? Cause I friggin love Fatal Frame that’s why

 

[cj.]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

1. Bomberman
2. Alucard
3. Ashley
4. Shovel Knight
5. Thwomp Dr Willy

 

[TheTuninator]

Dude I clicked your Fire Emblem quote and responded accidentally in the Edelgard thread lol!

Haha, my bad, the quote persistence always gets me!

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

1. Callie & Marie
2. Midna
3. Tiki
4. Phosphora
5. Yuri

 

[GKMLTTSB]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5

1. Moon
2. Thwomp
3. Color TV-Game 15
4. Ghosts
5. Rathalos

... What? >_>

But to be a bit more serious...

1. Skull Kid
And I'd honestly leave it there to keep any additional slots open to other characters.
If we were stuck with promotions though? Add in Waluigi, the Squid Sisters, Barbara Bat, and Ashley.

 

[Plank08]

Don’t ask how I got this image, just know that it’s here(ClubPenguintime)

 

[Ivander]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5

1. Bomberman
2. Lyn
3. Takamaru
4. Isaac
5. Shovel Knight

 

[PhantomShab]

im not really for a souls character that series has incredibly clunky characters and gameplay. not to mention souls combat really just block and counter-attack. and repeat. Theres a reason games like sekiro and bloodborne were seen as upgrades.

Something tells me you haven't played Dark Souls, Bloodborne, or Sekiro.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

happy to see all that Issac love sad to see no love for my half vampire boy

 

[dezeray112]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5

1. Samurai Goroh
2. Lyn
3. Shadow (Sonic Echo)
4. Isaac
5. Bomberman

 

[Lionfranky]

Also, i haven't seen any indication that the first DOOM sold that much (being bundled in a pc program doesn't mean that everyone who had a pc played it). The spinoffs also bombed and there isn't anything to show that it was anything compatible to the cultural penetration of DQ (which is still a household name. I doubt even Halo/Overwatch hit those levels of popularity in the West). All things considered, my intention is not to put down DOOM - far from it! It's just that i feel that fans overblow its importance which isn't necessary if you want to push for the character.

Halo got few acclaimed novels. It also got its museum in form of Halo Outpost. Halo costumes always pop up in most convention. It was also the first game to outgross and compete blockbuster movies. That was headline news back in the old days. If that's not cultural penetration, I don't know what else.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

1. Waluigi
2. Knuckles
3. Skull Kid
4. Krystal
5. Riki

and as a bonus, since he's an assist in 4 but absent from Ultimate:

6. Elec Man

 

[Will]

View attachment 245798
Don’t ask how I got this image, just know that it’s here

card jitsu was the only thing i found noteworthy about club penguin

 

[Wunderwaft]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

1. Waluigi
2. Ashley
3. Lyn
4. Zero
5. Alucard

 

[Banado_Boy]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

1. Tiki
2. Alucard
3. Bomberman
4. Krystal
5. Isaac

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So here's a fun topic what assist trophies would you guys want to break free and become playable let's limit it to 5
1. Alucard
2. Issac
3. Takamaru
4. Shadow
5. Bomber Man

1. Isaac - Gotta give one for the Golden boys.
2. Alucard - I would love to play as Alucard. While it's a shame he didn't get in, It'd feel really strange to not have Simon playable.
3. Zero
4. Shovel Knight
5. Shadow

View attachment 245798
Don’t ask how I got this image, just know that it’s here

No way! Sakurai is going to do Club Penguin justice?