Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

WhIch company will take the coveted DLC Fighter #5?

  • Nintendo

    Votes: 13 9.2%
  • Capcom

    Votes: 29 20.6%
  • Sega

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • SNK

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bandai-Namco

    Votes: 30 21.3%
  • Microsoft

    Votes: 7 5.0%
  • Square-Enix

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • Konami

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • Koei Tecmo

    Votes: 5 3.5%
  • Arc System Works

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Level-5

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Bethesda

    Votes: 5 3.5%
  • Sony

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Marvelous

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • Blizzard Activision

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ubisoft

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Netherealm Studios

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • FromSoftware

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Grasshopper

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Valve

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Indie company

    Votes: 21 14.9%
  • Other (Feel free to specify)

    Votes: 6 4.3%
  • Waluigi

    Votes: 12 8.5%

  • Total voters
    141
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With all due respect, saying DOOM is the equivalent of DQ for FPS is flawed at best. DOOM was one of the pioneers of the FPS genre similar to DQ, but DQ managed to sustain its momentum to become the biggest JRPG in Japan, alongside with multiple spinoffs, successful media spin-offs (see the DQ manga) as well as a huge cultural impact into its home country. It's easy to tell that DQ got in on the basis of it being the biggest

DOOM on the other end petered out in the early 2000s and only had a resurgence in 2016, during which multiple FPS solidified their presence and have stayed there ever since,
Halo? Started in 2001 to great fanfare, became a juggernaut in the 2010s with multiple spinoffs as well as serving as the icon of Xbox. Even after its halycon days Halo 5 still performed better than DOOM 2016.
Counterstrike/TF dominated the PC scene and never let go, even today.
Then you have the newer FPS such as Overwatch (yes, it's still doing really well despite the ****storm Blizzard brought themselves in).
If you want to talk about Sakurai's preference, Half life is a possibility as well. It's the only FPS game he has personally praised, which is more than his one-off mention of John Carmack.

I like DOOM, the series deserved its return and his popularity among the smash crowd is definitely a big plus point. While he's a frontliner if we get a FPS rep, the lines aren't that clear cut as with DQ and JRPGs .
While I agree that Doom didn't maintain its mass popularity during the 00's, I think you're greatly underselling the enormous impact the the original Doom had. An estimated 15-20 million people had played it by 1995, and the entire genre of FPS was called "Doom Clones" for a while afterwards. Most FPS series today could trace their inspirations back to Doom. Not to mention it also has a ton of spin-off media, including 2 movies, books, etc.

It's not the most popular FPS series today, but its by far the most influential.
 
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CyberHyperPhoenix

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It seems like SNK was really easy to work with when it came to their representation in Smash in comparison to pretty much every other 3rd party. Not to mention how much Sakurai loves their games. I’d be surprised if we didn’t get another fighter from them in Ultimate.
Haha, yeah, it would be nice if we got another SNK fighter, wouldn't it?

...Wouldn't it, Sakurai? :)

 

N3ON

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Is it bad that I was like 9 when I discovered Newgrounds? That may explain why literally nothing taboo offends me.
You don't grow up with two older brothers and not walk away desensitized from the internet, that's all I can say.

Though I still and will always love Salad Fingers. <3

Well, that's how the world changes, girl.
Uh... yes... thanks Lesley.

I think they came back fairly recently, there should be more video's on their channel.
I have a friend who still quotes Dedede from those videos; he'll be delighted they're back, thanks! ^_^
 

Guynamednelson

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Like this?
View attachment 245761

I'd say Wolfenstein 3-D is to FPSs what DQ is to JRPGs.

Practically...
View attachment 245764
I guess, but I'm not sure if Rillaboom is meant to smack foes with its drum like Chang with his iron ball. Besides, the reason for this starter trend is because they had fighter archetypes so obvious that I wouldn't be surprised if they were made using unused movesets lying around, something that isn't the case with this new set.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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Wow, now we're over 1000 pages.
Will he thread get reset or will we end off on 2000 by the time this is all done?
 

DrifloonEmpire

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With all due respect, saying DOOM is the equivalent of DQ for FPS is flawed at best. DOOM was one of the pioneers of the FPS genre similar to DQ, but DQ managed to sustain its momentum to become the biggest JRPG in Japan, alongside with multiple spinoffs, successful media spin-offs (see the DQ manga) as well as a huge cultural impact into its home country. It's easy to tell that DQ got in on the basis of it being the biggest

DOOM on the other end petered out in the early 2000s and only had a resurgence in 2016, during which multiple FPS solidified their presence and have stayed there ever since,
Same applies to a comparison between Doom and The Elder Scrolls. Like Dragon Quest, The Elder Scrolls kept its' momentum going, especially once Morrowind was released as it was the first TES game on consoles. Every TES game has seen greater and greater sales, and is still considered the magnum opus of the open world genre. And unlike Doom, nobody has been able to claim the niche of The Elder Scrolls.
 

Hydewell

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I'm the only one who thinks the last character of the season pass will be the "avatar" (or whatever it is) of Dark Souls? I mean, there aren't DLC costumes from Bandai Namco (and Heihachi was perfect in the last DLC), it's a japanese franchise, it adds a new company (From Software), and it fits the TGA show, like Doom Slayer. Also, it would be a compensation for Nintendo for the failed release of Dark Souls remaster (which Nintendo paid to have the rights of commercials).
 

Ben Holt

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I'm the only one who thinks the last character of the season pass will be the "avatar" (or whatever it is) of Dark Souls? I mean, there aren't DLC costumes from Bandai Namco (and Heihachi was perfect in the last DLC), it's a japanese franchise, it adds a new company (From Software), and it fits the TGA show, like Doom Slayer. Also, it would be a compensation for Nintendo for the failed release of Dark Souls remaster (which Nintendo paid to have the rights of commercials).
Chosen Undead.
But I feel like Lloyd and Heihachi's Mii Costumes haven't shown up because either:
1. Sakurai is planning them for the future or,
2. Sakurai does not have the entire future DLC planned yet, so he's future proofing them just in case.
 

N3ON

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>I created this account to try and be one of the most transparent sources of video game info in the industry.

 
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I'm the only one who thinks the last character of the season pass will be the "avatar" (or whatever it is) of Dark Souls? I mean, there aren't DLC costumes from Bandai Namco (and Heihachi was perfect in the last DLC), it's a japanese franchise, it adds a new company (From Software), and it fits the TGA show, like Doom Slayer. Also, it would be a compensation for Nintendo for the failed release of Dark Souls remaster (which Nintendo paid to have the rights of commercials).
Well, with the recent evidence towards Doomguy and Ryu Hayubasa (among others), I wonder if that old Google theory still holds up after all and we might get Artorius sometime down the line. The theory was discredited back when Hero was announced, but that was before we knew that there would be more than just the 5 characters in the fighter pass. I don't know if anyone tested the name "Hero" instead of Erdrick back then, or Terry, either which can prove it false.
 

PsychoJosh

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I'm the only one who thinks the last character of the season pass will be the "avatar" (or whatever it is) of Dark Souls? I mean, there aren't DLC costumes from Bandai Namco (and Heihachi was perfect in the last DLC), it's a japanese franchise, it adds a new company (From Software), and it fits the TGA show, like Doom Slayer. Also, it would be a compensation for Nintendo for the failed release of Dark Souls remaster (which Nintendo paid to have the rights of commercials).
I really hope not. There are so many more interesting franchises they could add than Dark Souls.
 

Ben Holt

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Possibly in the Mallowdemon Leak's favor, if you go into YouTube or Google and start typing "Mallow Cacodemon" or "Cacodemon Mallow", they will not show up as suggestions.
 
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While I agree that Doom didn't maintain its mass popularity during the 00's, I think you're greatly underselling the enormous impact the original Doom had. An estimated 15-20 million people had played it by 1995, and the entire genre of FPS was called "Doom Clones" for a while afterward. Most FPS series today could trace their inspirations back to Doom. Not to mention it also has a ton of spin-off media, including 2 movies, books, etc.

It's not the most popular FPS series today, but it's by far the most influential.
This. However, I'd like the point out to Half-Life being in Smash as ceterisparibus said, would be phenomenal. Gordon Freeman is my most wanted character.

Doom Slayer, Gordon Freeman, and Master Chief would be the holy trinity of FPS characters.
 
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Hydewell

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
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Well, with the recent evidence towards Doomguy and Ryu Hayubasa (among others), I wonder if that old Google theory still holds up after all and we might get Artorius sometime down the line. The theory was discredited back when Hero was announced, but that was before we knew that there would be more than just the 5 characters in the fighter pass. I don't know if anyone tested the name "Hero" instead of Erdrick back then, or Terry, either which can prove it false.
The only evidence for Ryu is being rumoured by insider's sources (so basically, nothing), and Doom is the mii costume "leak" (which could be fake) and a statement for one producer/director who said Bethesda spoke with Nintendo regarding Smash (which could mean anything).

The google ad "leak" is false and shouldn't be resurrected, even if some of the character were listed appear as a DLC.
 

Lionfranky

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With all due respect, saying DOOM is the equivalent of DQ for FPS is flawed at best. DOOM was one of the pioneers of the FPS genre similar to DQ, but DQ managed to sustain its momentum to become the biggest JRPG in Japan, alongside with multiple spinoffs, successful media spin-offs (see the DQ manga) as well as a huge cultural impact into its home country. It's easy to tell that DQ got in on the basis of it being the biggest

DOOM on the other end petered out in the early 2000s and only had a resurgence in 2016, during which multiple FPS solidified their presence and have stayed there ever since,
Halo? Started in 2001 to great fanfare, became a juggernaut in the 2010s with multiple spinoffs as well as serving as the icon of Xbox. Even after its halycon days Halo 5 still performed better than DOOM 2016.
Counterstrike/TF dominated the PC scene and never let go, even today.
Then you have the newer FPS such as Overwatch (yes, it's still doing really well despite the ****storm Blizzard brought themselves in).
If you want to talk about Sakurai's preference, Half life is a possibility as well. It's the only FPS game he has personally praised, which is more than his one-off mention of John Carmack.

I like DOOM, the series deserved its return and his popularity among the smash crowd is definitely a big plus point. While he's a frontliner if we get a FPS rep, the lines aren't that clear cut as with DQ and JRPGs .
Objection. At the link you posted, he also praised Halo.
 
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So I'm assuming that the prime candidates for Fighter #5 are between Ryu Hayabusa, Doomguy and Geno?
There's no "prime candidate" right now in my eyes, as even if the leak is real there's no guarantee that either of them are even in, much less the next character. As far as Ryu, Vergeben is the only leaker I even remotely trust, and he's a hard no on Hayabusa for FP5.
 
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While I agree that Doom didn't maintain its mass popularity during the 00's, I think you're greatly underselling the enormous impact the the original Doom had. An estimated 15-20 million people had played it by 1995, and the entire genre of FPS was called "Doom Clones" for a while afterwards. Most FPS series today could trace their inspirations back to Doom. Not to mention it also has a ton of spin-off media, including 2 movies, books, etc.

It's not the most popular FPS series today, but its by far the most influential.
Wolfenstein was developed first by Carmack, and there were a lot of elements in that game that DOOM took inspiration from. Like to me, it doesn't matter whether it came first - since each new game brought its own things which influenced the genre (for example Rare claimed that they took inspiration from DOOM, but the things that they brought in such as multiplayer/scoped weapons/stealth were brand new and influenced the genre in its own ways). I just don't see how DOOM is the "most influential" just because it came first - there are many other FPS who have left their marks in the genre too.

Also, i haven't seen any indication that the first DOOM sold that much (being bundled in a pc program doesn't mean that everyone who had a pc played it). The spinoffs also bombed and there isn't anything to show that it was anything compatible to the cultural penetration of DQ (which is still a household name. I doubt even Halo/Overwatch hit those levels of popularity in the West). All things considered, my intention is not to put down DOOM - far from it! It's just that i feel that fans overblow its importance which isn't necessary if you want to push for the character.

Same applies to a comparison between Doom and The Elder Scrolls. Like Dragon Quest, The Elder Scrolls kept its' momentum going, especially once Morrowind was released as it was the first TES game on consoles. Every TES game has seen greater and greater sales, and is still considered the magnum opus of the open world genre. And unlike Doom, nobody has been able to claim the niche of The Elder Scrolls.
Yea. It's not so much being the first game out there, but whether or not you can sustain the momentum and become a big franchise by its own merits.

Objection. At the link you posted, he also praised Halo.
Sure he did, but you can see that he was more taken by Half-Life. It's good to see that he liked both series through.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Meh.
I'm not really super into either Dark Souls or Elder Scrolls, but I'd be more down with them getting a spot if it were a named character, rather than another generic CaC.
Solaire/Priscilla/whatever and like... Sheogorath... or something.
The Dragonborn could get around the generic-ism with it's different alts. The first two alternate costumes could be the default nord guy, and a female variant of that, the second two could be a male and female Khajit with thievery attire, etc.

As for Dark Souls, I feel like Solaire would be the better pick in terms of popularity, but the Chosen Undead would be the better choice if they wanted to pull from Bloodborne as well.
 
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The Dragonborn could get around the generic-ism with it's different alts. The first two alternate costumes could be the default nord guy, and a female variant of that, the second two could be a male and female Khajit with thievery attire, etc.

As for Dark Souls, I feel like Solaire would be the better pick in terms of popularity, but the Chosen Undead would be the better choice if they wanted to pull from Bloodborne as well.
The problem I find with CaC characters is something that PublicServant PublicServant (I'm sorry to mention you into this argument again) brought up a while ago in the Doom thread about the Dragonborn.

I personally feel that the biggest problem with having Dovahkiin as a fighter is you'd be presenting a drastically narrow scope of the series.

As an RPG, ES has such a ridiculous breadth of customization options, weapons, equipment and playstyles that it'd be impossible to nail down complete represention of anything besides "Nord Swordsman with wyvern shouts". Heck, even the number of playable races in Skyrim eclipses the number of alt fighter slots - No matter what way you spin it, someone is going to complain about not being able to play as an Imperial or Bosmer (and god forbid you bring gender into the mix; I can already hear the cries of "I wanted X race to be male/female," (if they decide on a 50/50 split) or "why are they all male?")

The main point of contention I see, however, is the representative elements of his moveset. As stipulated above, current RPG characters such as Link, the FE fighters and Hero have a number of "bottlenecks" which allow them to still be highly representative of their characters despite Smash's limited move options (Hero having a move that brings up a random assortment of spells, Link's iconic arsenal changing very little between games, FE characters using their default Lord classes, etc.). When it comes to Dovahkiin, however, no such creativity restraint or bottleneck exists that can allow him satisfy the majority of the ES community (and yes, you can argue till the cows come home that they should be happy with the Dragonborn's inclusion regardless, but that's never going to happen on the internet, at least in a widespread fashion).

What we'll most likely end up with is a Western Swordsman character who throws in an axe or double-wielded swords into a couple moves, has one or two ranged attacks in the form of either a cross/longbow or any number of random projectile staves/spells, and a whole collection of moves that other fighters can perform (seriously though, Unrelenting Force would more or less be Mario's FLUDD with a different visual effect), except they can be charged up and the Dragonborn shouts some kind of meme phrase prior to launching the attack. This severely de-values the variety of playstyles that are on offer in Skyrim:
  • Why can't I play as a my pickpocketing member of the Thieves Guild who dumped all their skill points into sneaking, speech and one-handed daggers?
  • Why do I have to use Dragonbane as my primary weapon? I wanted to use Wabbajack.
  • Why can't I summon any Creatures/Dragons/Undead monsters to my aid? There are plenty of shouts and magic-related skills/weapons that can do this, so there's no excuse as to why this isn't the case.
  • Why is there only stuff from Skyrim in here? I wanted him to wield weapons/abilities from Oblivion/Morrowind!
I believe that TerminatorLOL put it best:
I would only accept the Dovahkiin if he was an Argonian werewolf necromancer like in my game.

Sure, the above statement was obviously made in jest, but there will no doubt be an endless amount of people decrying the Dragonborn's inclusion for the sole reason that it didn't turn out exactly/similarly to how they personally play the game. Contrast with the overwhelming majority of the Smash roster (Doom Slayer included), whose abilities are generally narrow enougb in scope that their movesets can adequately portray how they play within their home series.

There's also the slight fact that the Dragonborn is from a game that, while infamous for the fact that Bethesda have been re-releasing it on enough platforms to rival Resident Evil 4, the game and character itself are due to be overtaken by whoever is to become the next Protagonist in Elder Scrolls 6. Sure, Dovahkiin could simply be a marketing ploy by Bethesda to promote ES6 on Switch, but the Slayer already has the Dragonborn beat in that department by miles (in that it wouldn't make sense to promote your next game by using the main character from the previous game that will likely have little to no bearing on said next game).
 
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3BitSaurus

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The problem I find with CaC characters is something that PublicServant PublicServant (I'm sorry to mention you into this argument again) brought up a while ago in the Doom thread about the Dragonborn.

I actually think that a Souls character would be perfect for a customization moveset, with a "Level Up" mechanic that lets you invest points into different attributes. Combine a few moves from different classes and you could have a character that represents the act of player stats customization.
 
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>I created this account to try and be one of the most transparent sources of video game info in the industry.

Okay that's it. I'm walking out if Sabi is part of any discussion.
 
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SvartWolf

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Haha, yeah, it would be nice if we got another SNK fighter, wouldn't it?

...Wouldn't it, Sakurai? :)

I'm sorry.. but I'm more of an Iori guy.. (and sakurai clearly is too)


Still, wouldn't mind a second SNK character specifically to represent The King of Fighters ... (also i have to admit that when sakurai showed us teh classic route i was hoping for a sneak Rugal or Geese boss battle reveal. 0:)
 

GKMLTTSB

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I'm sorry.. but I'm more of an Iori guy.. (and sakurai clearly is too)


Still, wouldn't mind a second SNK character specifically to represent The King of Fighters ... (also i have to admit that when sakurai showed us teh classic route i was hoping for a sneak Rugal or Geese boss battle reveal. 0:)
I still want my playable Psycho Soldier. Phoenix form Final Smash? It. Just. Works.

But if we take spirits and cameos as being out, that still leaves room for my crazy dream of Cham Cham getting in.
She's like the gentlemans' Felicia!

But... yeah... I think any further SNK dream is dead...
 

Sari

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But... yeah... I think any further SNK dream is dead...
For Ultimate I'm not expecting anymore SNK content, though there is definitely more hope for the next game. Terry's inclusion has shifted a ton of people's focus onto SNK so I think another character from them could be possible as long as the demand is there.

My dream picks would be Kyo and Iori. If they both got in I'd never ask Sakurai for anything ever again.
 
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I actually think that a Souls character would be perfect for a customization moveset, with a "Level Up" mechanic that lets you invest points into different attributes. Combine a few moves from different classes and you could have a character that represents the act of player stats customization.
So let me get this straight.

The different attributes system would work similarly to Hero's Down Special. You KO an opponent, you level up and then a screen pops up on top of his hud (Where the Hero down special similarity starts) and then you pick from attack, defense and speed or something like that.

I think I could get behind that but I don't think combining moves from different classes would work unless this chosen undead was an every class character like the deprived set but then again you'd have certain weapons that clearly better than others in terms of versatility and it'd probably be better for them to work with one main weapon which presents my problem.
 
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PublicServant

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The problem I find with CaC characters is something that PublicServant PublicServant (I'm sorry to mention you into this argument again) brought up a while ago in the Doom thread about the Dragonborn.

I personally feel that the biggest problem with having Dovahkiin as a fighter is you'd be presenting a drastically narrow scope of the series.

As an RPG, ES has such a ridiculous breadth of customization options, weapons, equipment and playstyles that it'd be impossible to nail down complete represention of anything besides "Nord Swordsman with wyvern shouts". Heck, even the number of playable races in Skyrim eclipses the number of alt fighter slots - No matter what way you spin it, someone is going to complain about not being able to play as an Imperial or Bosmer (and god forbid you bring gender into the mix; I can already hear the cries of "I wanted X race to be male/female," (if they decide on a 50/50 split) or "why are they all male?")

The main point of contention I see, however, is the representative elements of his moveset. As stipulated above, current RPG characters such as Link, the FE fighters and Hero have a number of "bottlenecks" which allow them to still be highly representative of their characters despite Smash's limited move options (Hero having a move that brings up a random assortment of spells, Link's iconic arsenal changing very little between games, FE characters using their default Lord classes, etc.). When it comes to Dovahkiin, however, no such creativity restraint or bottleneck exists that can allow him satisfy the majority of the ES community (and yes, you can argue till the cows come home that they should be happy with the Dragonborn's inclusion regardless, but that's never going to happen on the internet, at least in a widespread fashion).

What we'll most likely end up with is a Western Swordsman character who throws in an axe or double-wielded swords into a couple moves, has one or two ranged attacks in the form of either a cross/longbow or any number of random projectile staves/spells, and a whole collection of moves that other fighters can perform (seriously though, Unrelenting Force would more or less be Mario's FLUDD with a different visual effect), except they can be charged up and the Dragonborn shouts some kind of meme phrase prior to launching the attack. This severely de-values the variety of playstyles that are on offer in Skyrim:
  • Why can't I play as a my pickpocketing member of the Thieves Guild who dumped all their skill points into sneaking, speech and one-handed daggers?
  • Why do I have to use Dragonbane as my primary weapon? I wanted to use Wabbajack.
  • Why can't I summon any Creatures/Dragons/Undead monsters to my aid? There are plenty of shouts and magic-related skills/weapons that can do this, so there's no excuse as to why this isn't the case.
  • Why is there only stuff from Skyrim in here? I wanted him to wield weapons/abilities from Oblivion/Morrowind!
I believe that TerminatorLOL put it best:
I would only accept the Dovahkiin if he was an Argonian werewolf necromancer like in my game.

Sure, the above statement was obviously made in jest, but there will no doubt be an endless amount of people decrying the Dragonborn's inclusion for the sole reason that it didn't turn out exactly/similarly to how they personally play the game. Contrast with the overwhelming majority of the Smash roster (Doom Slayer included), whose abilities are generally narrow enougb in scope that their movesets can adequately portray how they play within their home series.

There's also the slight fact that the Dragonborn is from a game that, while infamous for the fact that Bethesda have been re-releasing it on enough platforms to rival Resident Evil 4, the game and character itself are due to be overtaken by whoever is to become the next Protagonist in Elder Scrolls 6. Sure, Dovahkiin could simply be a marketing ploy by Bethesda to promote ES6 on Switch, but the Slayer already has the Dragonborn beat in that department by miles (in that it wouldn't make sense to promote your next game by using the main character from the previous game that will likely have little to no bearing on said next game).
No problemo, 'twas nice of you to share it.
 
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So I'm assuming that the prime candidates for Fighter #5 are between Ryu Hayabusa, Doomguy and Geno?
And Heihachi.
When it comes to predicting characters, I think the average Smashboards user has a better track record than Sabi.
I mean no one was able to predict:ultjoker:and:ult_terry:. Just saying so I'd keep expectations low for those including myself thinking Doom Slayer is next.
 
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Since Terry has a unique mechanic with his spot dodge, it would be interesting to see future newcomers explore unique mechanics with other defensive options.

I know Dark Souls combat revolves around rolling and parrying, so it would be interesting to see a Dark Souls character have unique mechanics for the rolling and parrying actions in smash.

What are other potential newcomers that could take advantage of unique mechanics wit defensive options such as shielding, spot dodging, parrying, rolling, and air dodging?
 
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