New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Chris the Ripper]

Whats it for?!

 

[Conviction]

Sonic Gen. is going to be on 360,PS3, and 3DS. I'm hoping they'll make a Wii U port too.

 

[Chris the Ripper]

Sonic himself is excited about the game!

 

[OmegaXXII]

Ahem... Why won't we talk about Sonic in SSB4 instead, like Dr. Eggman being a SSE boss for example, he would have been a great boss with the many machines he uses, and if Megaman does appear maybe Dr. Wily could be there as well.

Whats it for?!

Here's a sneak peak, don't look if you don't want to be spoiled.

No offense guys, but if you want to discuss Sonic games you should discuss it HERE all discussions pertains to his games.

 

[Conviction]

Lol the Egg Carrier.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Sonic himself is excited about the game!

I like it!!

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[Conviction]

I guess. Whenever it comes it better be good. LOL

I'll just jump whenever it looks like I can say something.

 

[Oasis_S]

Then again, I didn't know what Oasis meant so I'm gonna ask this question:

Is Paper Mario different from Mario? I heard he's just another Mario from some other dimension/universe. Just asking.

As far as I can tell, he's the same Mario, but what I was saying was that even if he was a different Mario, he would still be counted as a Mario series character, giving it five reps.

Who do you not want to see in SSB4? Think of characters that actually have at least a minuscule chance. I'll give an answer this evening.

Uh... I guess out of the suggested characters I've seen: Waluigi, Tom Nook, Toad, Dark Samus, Magnus, Travis Touchdown, Laughing Dog, Ninten, and NESS. I guess Palutena too, since Medusa would be so much cooler. >:V

 

[DaisyChain]

Quote from Cave Story, since it was remade for wiiware.

 

[Pieman0920]

You know what would be a pretty interesting stage (or at least I think it would be) that could be done with the system's new power? A Trophy Tussle style stage that shifts people throughout the trophy room, which has all of the player's trophies in the background. There would be like 10 or so trophies that could actually be fought on, and the stage shifts around like Delfino Plaza between them. The stage would be unlocked once the player obtains at least 5 of the trophies that are used as platforms here, and getting the rest just expands the stage from there.

 

[JavaCroc]

You know what would be a pretty interesting stage (or at least I think it would be) that could be done with the system's new power? A Trophy Tussle style stage that shifts people throughout the trophy room, which has all of the player's trophies in the background. There would be like 10 or so trophies that could actually be fought on, and the stage shifts around like Delfino Plaza between them. The stage would be unlocked once the player obtains at least 5 of the trophies that are used as platforms here, and getting the rest just expands the stage from there.

I've thought of an idea for a new Smash Bros. stage to compliment Battlefield and Final Destination - Smash Arena. The stage starts as basically the colosseum that was seen in the Melee opening. The stage is grounded and walk-off, with nothing really of note but one feature. There is a large video screen in the background in the center of the stage. Normally the screen is empty, but occasionally, it will start flashing through images of Nintendo characters, both retro and recent, in a slot machine-type way. It will stop on one image, and then the stage will transform according to a level from that game.

For example, the screen shows the Laughing Dog holding a duck. The stage would transform (in some sort of heck-a-awesome, fancy manner) into the marsh from Duck Hunt. Or perhaps it shows Urban Champion on the screen and then changes the stage to the front of a city building like in the game.

Similar to Final Destination or Battlefield, there are no gimmicks that can hurt or help combatants here; the special effects are purely cosmetic.

This stage could allow for representation of numerous more Nintendo games and franchises in one stage.

 

[OmegaXXII]

As far as I can tell, he's the same Mario, but what I was saying was that even if he was a different Mario, he would still be counted as a Mario series character, giving it five reps.

I disagree, Paper Mario being from a different parallel universe i.e. Paper realm would totally be a different franchise, at least in Smash it would, it makes sense since Paper Mario has his own line up of games, plus he's pretty much different from Mario in terms of moves and style.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[OmegaXXII]

^ @ 0:18-0:21

Is the argument really based on cloning here? I can't stress Omega's points enough

Your link doesn't work.

The point I am trying to point out is that Paper Mario simply wouldn't be part of the Mario franchise, rather he would rep his own.

I wish people took note of the custom music stage idea, it would be one of the best features to have, especially in Smash.

 

[Hoots]

^ @ 0:18-0:21

Is the argument really based on cloning here? I can't stress Omega's points enough

edit: for the characters I'd don't want topic, I'd hate to see that grotesque

Spoiler

gensect

I can't wait to eat that greasy pig!

 

[Gamingboy]

Another Assist Trophy idea: A King Dodongo...

 

[Johnknight1]

Lots of Character Predictions! (I can't wait for some epic debate threads!)

Paper Mario is the same as Mario, except he's made of Paper! I don't think it'd be a big deal to be honest if there were a ton of Mario reps (like all the way up to 7!), or a ton of Pokémon reps (although many will probably be for the 3DS, since Pokémon is the handheld consoles). He could easily make it in the game. With three Paper Mario games that are uniquely different, Nintendo could easily make an original move set for him. While I wouldn't say he's a surefire thing (like Olimar, Diddy Kong, and of course, Sonic were with Brawl), I will say that the chances are extremely unlikely[/U ]that he won't at least (boy I love those two words) be considered, or at least be an AT or something given Super Paper Mario's success (I feel old mentioning that game, considering it came out like 5 years ago), and the remake of the original Paper Mario.


Plus if we can have Toon Link from Phantom Hourglass and the Wind Waker and Adult Link from Twilight Princess (and some weirdo named Sheik whose from one game, but based on an unused model from another), there could always be two different Marios. Heck, there already were .*points at Doctor Mario and laughs...and then cries* (yes I am arguing with myself; yes I am crazy.)

Other characters I'm on the watch out for are 5th generation Pokémon (there seems to be no runaway favorites like Lucario; they all seem overall better than gen 5, but nothing as awesome as Lucario), Dixie Kong (given Donkey Kong Country's revival!), Ridley (the new technology may help his chances), Mii's (I want to play as Mike Tyson!), a Golden Sun character (new vs. Issac? Who shall win?), Mega Man (he's recently come back from the 80's), and perhaps a character (or two) who was in Melee but not in Brawl may return as well (probably Mewtwo, and hopefully he actually has hit boxes! )

Toad is also a character I think probably won't make it, but definitely will be considered, and we should be on the watch out for. The same goes for Pac-Man, although he probably won't be considered. Bubbles (the thing from Clu Clu Land), Mach Rider, and Balloon Fighter could also make it (remember, they were considered for Melee), but again, it could be a long shot. Little Mac (the guy from Punch-Out!) could also make it; he was a Assist Trophy in Brawl, and his recent revival similar to Pit's. Given two new smash games (and hopefully quadruple the fun and competitiveness!), we could also get a ton of retro characters.

Also, last time around a ton of people were on the Waluigi bandwaggon last time. I was part of it (I was young, and I like his funny voice [but not a lot else]... what can I say?), but he's a looooooooooonnngg shot at best (the only thing that heped him is that he was an assist trophy). He's too unoriginal, he's never had a substantial role in anything but a don't get your hopes up Waluigi fans....again.... for like the third time.DDR Game, and he's never been in a canon Mario, Luigi, or even Wario game. I'm not saying he's a crazy longshot (he was an Assist Trophy last time around), but don't get your hopes up Waluigi fans. (the same probably goes for us Geno fans! )

Also, Cooking Mama for the lulz character! "You gave it yowww bwwsssttt effooorrrt!!!"

 

[OmegaXXII]

Johnnight1 is back!!

Yay!! Let's discuss..or debate shall we?

first off, I disagree with your statement about Paper Mario being very unlikely, Like you've mentioned he's already had 3 games which were all popular, plus he has an upcoming title on the 3DS. If anything can be said is that his chances are pretty likely considering he's growing in popularity, his chances are just as good as Bowser Jr's, okay maybe a tad less but they are still relatevely good.

Also Pac-Man probably won't even be considered, if ant 3rd party deserves the spot aside from Sonic and Snake it's
definetly Megaman, Pac-Man may have been in Mario Kart, but I doubt his appearance due to popularity, if anything he would make a perfect WTF character.

I do agree however on having Little Mac, his inclusion as an AT in Brawl proved that he has no been forgotten, he definetly has moveset potential as well as uniqueness.

I would also love to see Medusa or Palutena as Kid Icarus's 2nd rep, both are female and are definetly significant to the series, personally though Medusa is just a tad better since she's an antagonist.

 

[Pieman0920]

and the remake of the original Paper Mario.

What? If you're talking about Paper Mario 3DS, that's a new game.

 

[Johnknight1]

Johnnight1 is back!!

Yay!! Let's discuss..or debate shall we?

^ LOL Omega, I am remembered (even if I haven't been on for months; school/girlfriend/brother/summer vacation/doing stuff/too busy playing other video games/making fun of Robin Williams for being a nerd only to remember I'm much nerdier/watching cute kitten youtube videos that a grown man but help but go "Awww" over like a little girl which causes him to blush johns.

What? If you're talking about Paper Mario 3DS, that's a new game.

Please refer to my previous list of Johns! XD But sweet, that sounds awesome (there were too many games from E3 for my game to properly focus on more than 7 of them).

first off, I disagree with your statement about Paper Mario being very unlikely, Like you've mentioned he's already had 3 games which were all popular, plus he has an upcoming title on the 3DS. If anything can be said is that his chances are pretty likely considering he's growing in popularity, his chances are just as good as Bowser Jr's, okay maybe a tad less but they are still relatevely good.

I didn't say Paper was unlikely, I said he was unlikely not to be considered. I would bet money he will be considered (although there could be little proof if he was considered and dropped! :laugh). Hopefully if I win that bet it's not like that guy I bet $50 if Diddy Kong would make it who never showed his face around these parks again... >.>

Truly many, many, many characters will be considered, especially with two games. I expect no less than 70-100 to be considered, and there will be anywhere from 45 to 65 playable between the two. Now having said that, IMHO there are truly no shoe in new characters yet (especially since a trailer hasn't even been revealed) like Diddy Kong, Ike, King Dedede, Lucario, and Sonice like with Brawl, aside from a 5th generation Pokémon (that new Dark thing whose name I can't remember so far seems like the best bet). There are also no hugely glaring omissions, aside from maybe a Metroid character, a 5th Pokémon (as previously mentioned), Mewtwo (IMO; that's most likely a stretch) and perhaps a new Fire Emblem main character. You could also make the argument that no generation 3 Pokémon is an omission (and the Brawl data proves Plusle and Minun were in development).

Yet there are many characters who have a shot, especially characters who have recently been revived or who have become mainstay Nintendo characters (the only I can think of is Bowser Jr).

Bowser Jr. is another character I forgot to mention whose' chances are rising (given that he has been in NEW Super Mario and both Mario Galaxy games as a main character), although the chances of Shadow Mario as a transformation are next to nil.

Also Pac-Man probably won't even be considered, if ant 3rd party deserves the spot aside from Sonic and Snake it's
definetly Megaman, Pac-Man may have been in Mario Kart, but I doubt his appearance due to popularity, if anything he would make a perfect WTF character.

Some guy name Shigeru Miyamoto (or as we call him in my household, GOD!) is friends with the man who made Pac-Man. Plus with two consoles, I can see 2 to 2 1/2 times the retro characters of Brawl happening easily (including the previous characters, of course). Brawl already opened the door for retro characters, giving us two. Why not 2 more along with Sonic and Snake? Why not Mega Man? Why not Tails (please don't talk). Why not Pac-Man, one of the most popular video game characters (well games) of all-time? He was heavily debated for last time, and I see no reason why he couldn't be considered as at least a semi-"wtf?" (3rd party) character (which was Snake in Brawl).

I think JavaCroc summed up Pac-Man's chances pretty well. Given Mega Man, Sonic, and Snake make it in Brawl, who else would be the 4th 3rd party nominee if there is 4 3rd party characters? Aside from the movement for Geno (which I am all for, but it probably has about as much chance of happening as the chances that the crazy doomsday preacher in Oakland converts to Transformers worshiping [which is more likely than you may think! ).

Do you think that if there are 4 3rd party characters, Omega, that Pac-Man wouldn't at least be considered?

I do agree however on having Little Mac, his inclusion as an AT in Brawl proved that he has no been forgotten, he definetly has moveset potential as well as uniqueness.

Plus he beat up Mike Tyson; it doesn't get ANY sweeter than that! He's got the moves, the punches (maybe a below the belt punch will be his Final Smash! ), and he's been revived in Brawl-and in a new Punch-Out! game (which rocked!). Don't be shocked if we see him.

I would also love to see Medusa or Palutena as Kid Icarus's 2nd rep, both are female and are definetly significant to the series, personally though Medusa is just a tad better since she's an antagonist.

I'm not sure about Medusa. She's based on a fictional character. Palutena may be a stretch, but since Sakurai has the animations ready with the new Kid Icarus game he's making, I could see her being considered, although she may be too God-like to make it. (although Mewtwo was pretty Godly too!) I'm not sure what Pit's Final Smash would be if she's in the game, though. I'm not sure what her chances would be (other than not likely), but it could be an interesting choice. I wouldn't put it past Sakurai. He loves certain characters, especially those dang furry space animals (I don't want to see another one! Maybe switch Wolf for Krystal, but I don't care either way, really).

What just happened LOL

Nostalgia viva Brawl character prediction threads! (I was very active then)

Also, I just realized for years I have the same basic smash bros. character character prediction theories. Woaw I feel dumb for just realizing that...

 

[Conviction]

What just happened LOL

 

[OmegaXXII]

We just got johned by johnknight and that's no John!

 

[JavaCroc]

Johnnight1 is back!!

Yay!! Let's discuss..or debate shall we?

first off, I disagree with your statement about Paper Mario being very unlikely, Like you've mentioned he's already had 3 games which were all popular, plus he has an upcoming title on the 3DS. If anything can be said is that his chances are pretty likely considering he's growing in popularity, his chances are just as good as Bowser Jr's, okay maybe a tad less but they are still relatevely good.

Also Pac-Man probably won't even be considered, if ant 3rd party deserves the spot aside from Sonic and Snake it's
definetly Megaman, Pac-Man may have been in Mario Kart, but I doubt his appearance due to popularity, if anything he would make a perfect WTF character.

The fact that we're considering him makes him not a WTF character.

Pac-Man definitely has the potential to be a third-party character, and he's actually got a bigger chance than you might think. However, like you said, I doubt he would be considered, and if he is even to be in the game, he would probably have to take a fourth third-party character spot - which, a fourth spot isn't very likely in the first place.

 

[ssbowns]

Out of the originals Mario, Starfox, Zelda and Kirby have villains. Pokemon and F-Zero don't really have them. So DK and Metroid villains are top priority.

Anyway here's my take on Hayabusa moveset:
Hayabusa

Specials:
B = (tap) Shurikens, (hold) Incedinary shurikens, (hold) Bow. Last being the fastest and most powerful.
B+S = Summons slightly homing fireballs from the sky. Tap for 1 and charge for up to 3.
B+U = Piercing Void shot towards sky (Chargeable for bigger size and damge)
B+D = Wind Blades radial attack. Weak damage but good crowd control (Chargeable for more blades increasing range and damage)
Final Smash: Ultimate Technique. Uninterruptable powerful combo always hitting the closest character (some hits push enemies backwards a lot so the closest isn't always the same). Changes weapon every now and then (Even ones you can't use normally: Nunchuks, Vigorian Flail, Kusari Gama, Hammer, Dual Swords).

Normal:
A = 3 Sword slashes
A+S = Sword uppercut launcing enemy in air
A+U = Lunar Staff radial spin attack above head
A+D = Eclipse Scythe trip attack
Dash = Extremely fast sword strike

Aerials:
Neutral Aerial = Jump kick
Forward Aerial = Flying Swallow (quick dash forwards)
Down Aerial = Downwards sword smash
Up Aerial = Windmill Shuriken circling diagonally upwards and coming back.

Grabs: Wears Falcon Talons
Pummel = Talon punches
Forward Throw = Jumps over the enemy and throws him over his head
Up Throw = Uses enemy as platform to jump
Down Throw = Izuna Throw (throws enemy in air, jumps to grab him and comes crashing down head first)
Back Throw = Rolls back and kicks the enemy over him

Floor attack = Handstand spin kick
Ledge attack low % = Talon downward kick
Ledge attack medium % = Staff downward smack
Ledge attack high % = Scythe downward smash

Taunts:
Side = Swipes blood (rainbows lol) from his sword and sheats it
Up = Access a Muramasa shop stand buying a handful of seeds
Down = Ayane jumps on stage but Ryu shoos her away showing he can handle this

And I still wish I could add more Lots of ninpos, weapons and cool moves still missing.

 

[OmegaXXII]

The fact that we're considering him makes him not a WTF character.

Pac-Man definitely has the potential to be a third-party character, and he's actually got a bigger chance than you might think. However, like you said, I doubt he would be considered, and if he is even to be in the game, he would probably have to take a fourth third-party character spot - which, a fourth spot isn't very likely in the first place.

Right! He may be considered only if Namco wants anything to do with Smash, here are some most likely 3rd party reps IMO to appear...

Megaman: Obviously the most demanded 3rd Party character by fans, he's been on Sakurai's poll.

Slime: Nintendo seems to show interest in him, so much so that he's been included in Mario Sports Mix as well as the upcoming Fortunes crossover for Wii, he definetly has a role bigger than just being a 'generic' DQ series character.

Geno: even though he's only been in one game, he is still popular among fans, he was even on
Sakurai's poll, but seeing that Square nor Nintendo hasn't done anything with him, it seems he may have been forgotten by them.

Ryu Hayabusa: I really don't know too much about him but he seems to be popular by fans, still if Sakurai decides on 1 new 3rd party rep, his chances are pretty much destroyed by Megaman's.

 

[Oasis_S]

To be clear, I was never arguing against Paper Mario's inclusion (I've been saying he's the most likely next Mario character, lol), but the idea that he wouldn't for whatever reason be considered part of the Mario series is silly. He's totally the same Mario. Just made of paper. He would be a Mario series character.

The whole argument comes down to whether or not he would use the mushroom logo, which is just completely silly. I feel stupid for even discussing this. I'm... I'm the silly goose this time. u3u

 

[OmegaXXII]

Bringing up that point about logo just made me feel silly.

 

[Johnknight1]

Right! He may be considered only if Namco wants anything to do with Smash, here are some most likely 3rd party reps IMO to appear...

Megaman: Obviously the most demanded 3rd Party character by fans, he's been on Sakurai's poll.

Slime: Nintendo seems to show interest in him, so much so that he's been included in Mario Sports Mix as well as the upcoming Fortunes crossover for Wii, he definetly has a role bigger than just being a 'generic' DQ series character.

Geno: even though he's been only been in one game, he is still popular among fans, he was even on
Sakurai's poll, but seeing that Square nor Nintendo hasn't done anything with him, it seems he may have been forgotten by them.

Ryu Hasubasa: I really don't know too much about him but he seems to be popular by fans, still if Sakurai decides on 1 new 3rd party rep, his chances are pretty much destroyed by Megaman's.

Namco allowed Pac-Man to be in Mario Kart, so you never know.

Slime is a possibility since Dragon Quest is now Nintendo exclusive...again. Plus c'mon! He's a cute puddle of slime!!!

Geno's chances are next to none, and that's coming from a guy who loves, loves, LOVES Super Mario RPG.

Ryu is another guy I was thinking. If Mega Man makes it, Ryu could easily be considered. However, the differences between being considered, created for smash bros, and in the game are substantially different. I'm sure many characters we'll never know were considered for the previous smash games. Plus characters like Bowser, Peach, Pit, and King Dedede in SSB64, Mach Rider, Bubbles from Clu-Clu Land, and Balloon Fighter in Melee, and the Melee exclusive characters in Brawl (plus Dixie and Plusle and Minun) were being built but were never in the finished game.

I'm sure there will be more considered characters who weren't made in these two games than the previous 3 games. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there were less characters who weren't completed, consider we are getting two games that will probably be in some way intertwined and probably will connect to one another.

To be clear, I was never arguing against Paper Mario's inclusion (I've been saying he's the most likely next Mario character, lol), but the idea that he wouldn't for whatever reason be considered part of the Mario series is silly. He's totally the same Mario. Just made of paper. He would be a Mario series character.

The whole argument comes down to whether or not he would use the mushroom logo, which is just completely silly. I feel stupid for even discussing this. I'm... I'm the silly goose this time. u3u

I agree that he's very likely, but really, the logo doesn't matter IMHO. It's whether he's in or not, what his moveset is, and how awesome is it to play him IMHO. Mario could use another character. In Brawl they had 4. Star Fox had 3. Mario has sold well over 200 million copies worldwide. Star Fox has sold only around 4 million. According to my math, that means Mario games have sold more than 50 times as many copies. You could argue since Mario and Donkey Kong originated from the same game, and that Wario and Yoshi are originally from Mario games that there were 8 Mario characters in Brawl (9 total with Doctor Mario). But still... it's friggen MARIO!

Colonial Roy Campbell: "There's probably not even a single person who doesn't know who Mario is. He's that famous."

I also wouldn't bet against Toad making it (well.....that mayyyyyy be a stretch), given there are two games, or at least being a AT. If Sakurai can make someone as unoriginal as Wolf somewhat original, why not Toad, given how much more popular he is?

We just got johned by johnknight and that's no John!

Corrrection: John got Johned by Johnknight's logic. This is what happens when you argue with yourself over which cereal is better between poptarts and ice cream... >.<

 

[ssbowns]

Ryu Hayabusa: I really don't know too much about him but he seems to be popular by fans, still if Sakurai decides on 1 new 3rd party rep, his chances are pretty much destroyed by Megaman's.

I was just thinking that last time we got 1 "cute" (Sonic) and 1 "adult" (Snake) characters so maybe we could get another "cute" (Megaman) and also another "adult"

But if Snake got in because of Kojima's "begging" then I don't see much future for Ryu. After Itagaki (creator of the new games) left with sparks flying I don't see anyone being a convincing beggar. Most fans are concerned about where the series is heading now too.

So atleast for the classic version we have slimmer than slim chances. I don't know if the new version will be so demanded

 

[Fatmanonice]

You know, in light of this whole Operation Rainfall thing, I think Smash fans should do something of their own. With Brawl, most people didn't start sending stuff into Nintendo until the summer of 2006, more than half a year after it started developed but this time around we have a chance to do something before development starts for SSB4 and SB3D. Sakurai has estimated that development will start in October for both games giving us about three months to suggest things before production gets underway.

Now, as for what to ask for, I think we should ask for something pertaining to gameplay or the online features. Asking for particular characters has been done to death and the only characters that people almost unanimously agree with are Little Mac, Ridley, and Megaman (with two of them being extremelly likely as it is). I think the goal for the campaign should be either to suggest gameplay elements that could help with balancing or to suggest features that would optimize the online experience. For this, I would suggest focusing on one with no more then 5 items to ask for. An example for the gameplay category would be to ask for tripping to be removed.

I just wanted to toss this idea out there real quick because I think it would be nice thing for the Smash community to get involved in and its something that both casual and competitive players could get behind. If there's enough support, we can try to make a campaign out of.

 

[JavaCroc]

You know, in light of this whole Operation Rainfall thing, I think Smash fans should do something of their own. With Brawl, most people didn't start sending stuff into Nintendo until the summer of 2006, more than half a year after it started developed but this time around we have a chance to do something before development starts for SSB4 and SB3D. Sakurai has estimated that development will start in October for both games giving us about three months to suggest things before production gets underway.

Now, as for what to ask for, I think we should ask for something pertaining to gameplay or the online features. Asking for particular characters has been done to death and the only characters that people almost unanimously agree with are Little Mac, Ridley, and Megaman (with two of them being extremelly likely as it is). I think the goal for the campaign should be either to suggest gameplay elements that could help with balancing or to suggest features that would optimize the online experience. For this, I would suggest focusing on one with no more then 5 items to ask for. An example for the gameplay category would be to ask for tripping to be removed.

I just wanted to toss this idea out there real quick because I think it would be nice thing for the Smash community to get involved in and its something that both casual and competitive players could get behind. If there's enough support, we can try to make a campaign out of.

This is a good idea. I would think you may even get more support than Operation Rainfall given the popularity of Smash Bros.

Anyways, I’ve updated my roster since last time. The biggest change is that I’ve now made two rosters. These rosters are based on SSBFan’s two options for how the SSB4 developers should handle characters between the two versions.

First up is my original roster, based on the idea of a 50+ character roster combined between the two systems, with exclusives on each. Although it’s the same number of characters as I had before, I’ve replaced some of the previous “indecisive” spots with real character choices, and some characters have been swapped out for others. My choices regarding third-party characters prevent this roster from being anything realistic, but I decided that it was what I wanted and kept the changes.

[COLLAPSE=Roster One]Note: All characters exclusive to the 3DS version can be imported into the Wii U version, provided that the player of course have a copy of both versions.

*= indicates unlockable character
[Wii U] [3DS]= indicates if a character is exclusive to one of the two systems

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach [3DS]
4. Bowser [Wii U]
5. Bowser Jr. * [Wii U]
6. Toad * [3DS]
7. Donkey Kong
8. Diddy Kong
9. King K. Rool * [Wii U]
10. Yoshi
11. Wario
12. Link
13. Zelda/Sheik
14. Ganondorf * [Wii U]
15. Toon Link * [3DS]
16. Samus/Zero Suit Samus
17. Dark Samus * [3DS]
18. Ridley/Meta Ridley * [Wii U]
19. Kirby
20. King Dedede
21. Metaknight * [Wii U]
22. Fox
23. Wolf
24. Falco * [Wii U]
25. Marth
26. Ike OR New Fire Emblem Character
27. Micaiah OR Caeda OR New Fire Emblem Character * [Wii U]
28. Captain Falcon
29. Samurai Goroh * [Wii U]
30. Ness
31. Lucas * [Wii U]
32. Pit
33. Medusa * [3DS]
34. Pikachu
35. Jigglypuff
36. Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard) (can choose between male or female version now) [Wii U]
37. Genesect * [3DS]
38. Victini OR Meowth * [Wii U]
39. Olimar
40. Little Mac
41. Isaac * [3DS]
42. Saki * [Wii U]
43. Ray MK # * [Wii U]
44. Ice Climbers
45. Mr. Game & Watch
46. Alice [Wii U]
47. R.O.B. * [Wii U]
48. Takamaru * [Wii U]
49. (Retro Character) * [3DS]
50. Snake * [3DS]
51. Sonic * [Wii U]
52. Megaman
53. Professor Layton * [3DS]
54. Tetris Block * [Wii U]

[/COLLAPSE]

Here are the numbers for this roster:

• 30 Starting Characters
• 24 Unlockable Characters
• 33-34 Veterans (depends on Ike)
• 20-21 Newcomers (depends on Ike)
• 10 3DS Exclusives
• 20 Wii U Exclusives
• 35 3DS Characters
• 44 Wii U Characters
• 54 Total Characters
• 58 Total Characters (including transformations and the 2nd Ice Climber)

Here are some images depicting what this roster would look like in various stages:
[COLLAPSE=Roster Images]

The Wii U Roster out of the box; consists of only the starting characters

The entire combined roster, after the 3DS exclusive characters have been imported into the Wii U version.[/COLLAPSE]
I worked on the roster images to make some patterns visible within the roster, particularly the last image. For example, there are three "villain" columns that contain four villains each, one "female" column that contains five females (Pokemon Trainer would have a female version of himself as an alternate costume), and even an "overshadowed" column that has four characters I consider overshadowed for whatever reason, whether that be a more famous ally or their seemingly small stature.

Now here is my second, new roster. This roster is based on the idea that the Wii U has all the exclusives and the 3DS version is a cut-down roster.

[COLLAPSE=Roster 2]*= indicates unlockable character
[Wii U]= indicates a character is exclusive to the Wii U version

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Bowser Jr. OR Toad * [Wii U]
6. Donkey Kong
7. Diddy Kong
8. King K. Rool * [Wii U]
9. Yoshi
10. Wario
11. Link
12. Zelda/Sheik
13. Ganondorf * [Wii U]
14. Toon Link *
15. Samus/Zero Suit Samus
16. Ridley/Meta Ridley *
17. Kirby
18. King Dedede
19. Metaknight * [Wii U]
20. Fox
21. Wolf
22. Falco * [Wii U]
23. Marth
24. Ike OR New Fire Emblem Character
25. Captain Falcon
26. Samurai Goroh *
27. Ness
28. Lucas *
29. Pit
30. Medusa *
31. Pikachu
32. Jigglypuff
33. Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard) (can choose between male or female version now)
34. Genesect *
35. Victini OR Meowth * [Wii U]
36. Olimar
37. Little Mac
38. Isaac * [Wii U]
39. Saki * [Wii U]
40. Ice Climbers
41. Mr. Game & Watch
42. Takamaru
43. R.O.B. * [Wii U]
44. (Retro Character) * [Wii U]
45. Snake * [Wii U]
46. Sonic * [Wii U]
47. Megaman
48. Tetris Block * [Wii U]

[/COLLAPSE]

Here are the numbers for this roster:

• 29 Starting Characters
• 19 Unlockable Characters
• 34-33 Veterans (depends on Ike)
• 14-15 Newcomers (depends on Ike)
• 48 Total Characters

Feel free to comment with constructive criticism.

 

[Johnknight1]

I really got to add that I like Ridley's chances of being a wild card character. In Brawl, a ton of people (myself included) thought his chances were very high. However, I don't think Sakurai wanted to risk having a flying-based character. Meta-Knight, Charizard, and Pit all fly, sure, but none of them would be nearly as airborne-based as Ridley. He could potentially break the game. Think about it. Sakurai could give him air shields (which sounds funny to say out loud! AIR SHIELD POWER ACTIVATE! ) He could also be a game maker, and a character as flight-based as him could counter many characters, or be solely used as a counter (such as DK in Melee). Although it is funny to talk about counters before we even get a picture of the dang game, his play style, body type, and whatnot could warrant him to having limited or unlimited potential because of that.

I won't say he's a few steps away from a shoe in like I did with his speculation in Brawl. But I will say he is being considered, they might try to make him, and the developers need to make extremely carefully if they do. Plus c'mon! He's a purple friggen dragon! He could be like the anti-Barney!

 

[Gamingboy]

Ridley isn't universally wanted in Japan, where Metroid is more of a minor franchise. I don't know about Little Mac's popularity in Japan, although I've always thought of Punch-Out as being more of an "American" series (maybe because Mike Tyson was involved)

 

[Oasis_S]

I agree that he's very likely, but really, the logo doesn't matter IMHO. It's whether he's in or not, what his moveset is, and how awesome is it to play him IMHO. Mario could use another character. In Brawl they had 4. Star Fox had 3. Mario has sold well over 200 million copies worldwide. Star Fox has sold only around 4 million. According to my math, that means Mario games have sold more than 50 times as many copies. You could argue since Mario and Donkey Kong originated from the same game, and that Wario and Yoshi are originally from Mario games that there were 8 Mario characters in Brawl (9 total with Doctor Mario). But still... it's friggen MARIO!

It's not so much the logo that's important, It's just the fact that Mario really doesn't need any more characters. Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach represent the entire series perfectly by themselves. So the question is, whether Sakurai is too worried about showing too much favor to one series, or whether having unique characters would override that fear. Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. (I'm not going to agree about Toad, lol) would be very unique (I'm starting to think Bowser Jr. would be more unique moveset-wise...) so even though I feel the Mario series doesn't need any more characters, at the same time I think it'd be a shame if those two were kept out due to fear of over-representation.

Also, on Ridley: ...He has legs, y'know. :V He should have a good air game, that's just part of his character, but there's no reason he would be unfeasible because he tends to fly around a lot in the games, lol. He'll just have multiple jumps like any other flying character.

ALSOOO: ...Isn't it just the Metroid Prime games that are unpopular in Japan? I figured if they ever got around to re-making Super Metroid for the 3DS (WHICH THEY SHOULD TOTALLY DO), then it'd be a big hit. :V

 

[majora_787]

It's not so much the logo that's important, It's just the fact that Mario really doesn't need any more characters. Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach represent the entire series perfectly by themselves. So the question is, whether Sakurai is too worried about showing too much favor to one series, or whether having unique characters would override that fear. Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. (I'm not going to agree about Toad, lol) would be very unique (I'm starting to think Bowser Jr. would be more unique moveset-wise...) so even though I feel the Mario series doesn't need any more characters, at the same time I think it'd be a shame if those two were kept out due to fear of over-representation.

Also, on Ridley: ...He has legs, y'know. :V He should have a good air game, that's just part of his character, but there's no reason he would be unfeasible because he tends to fly around a lot in the games, lol. He'll just have multiple jumps like any other flying character.

If they want to go down the "Moar Mario" route, I just want them to give characters to series that need them. I.E. Ridley. r_r Overrepresentation is one thing, but overrepresenting when you could have spent time on other things FIRST that people want MORE is another.

And, yes. He has legs. o_O Half of his fight time in the prime trilogy took place on the ground.

 

[Johnknight1]

Ridley isn't universally wanted in Japan, where Metroid is more of a minor franchise. I don't know about Little Mac's popularity in Japan, although I've always thought of Punch-Out as being more of an "American" series (maybe because Mike Tyson was involved)

The 2D Metroid games are, and Metroid is also far more popular than Star Fox. They haven't made a Star Fox game since before Brawl came out. There's 5 Star Fox games. There's 9 canon Metroid games (I'm not counting the Pinball game for obvious reasons), 2 since Brawl came out, along with a bundle of the 3 Prime games, 2 of which were revamped with new controls. On top of that, Metroid has sold more games. I may have used this argument for Brawl, but I still think it holds true. Donkey Kong I can understand why Sakurai only had 2 characters instead of 3 (although Japan is missing one hell of a game, and Dixie almost made it!), but still, it is probably way more popular than a series that has only sold around 4 million copies (Donkey Kong has sold somewhere in the 40 to 50 million range).

Plus, America is where most of the buyers will be. I will say that I think Japanese-only characters will be more considered than Brawl (Melee is the only game with any, viva Marth and Roy). I don't think America or Japan should be the primary market, but rather the world at large, and who could prosper from being exposed. (I'm still waiting on that with the Ice Climbers... who else wants an rated M game with the Ice Climbers where they have they must face moral obstacles to climb Mount Everest, including cannibalism, love, ethics, and basic human understanding of tragedies?

Also, Punch-Out! is pretty popular worldwide amongst retro gamers, and Sakurai loves retro characters. Ness and especially Captain Falcon (I believe F-Zero X hadn't come out yet) and Samus hadn't been in a game for fairly long in SSB64, and various other characters hadn't been in a game for over 2 decades.

Spoiler

(also, Mike Tyson is a worldwide household name; he's the last huge international boxing superstar, especially since he bit that guys' ear...TWICE!!!)

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[Fatmanonice]

As far as the the different communities go, I say that it can be demonstrated the span in which players make their connections. From what I can tell, Brawl cradled the concept of online in a way that barred players from being progressively casual with it.

How I mean is, it isn't that much of a stretch in having an online experience akin to FPS or other online Fighters. There are various modes that one has access to that don't take away from folks that are simply trying to have a good time.

Perhaps the notion that Nintendo is bearing away from codes with play to our advantage.

Hopefully. I was thinking of other things like leaderboards and maybe even an option where you can choose opponents who are casual or competitive. Maybe each player could have an ID of sorts that says things like whether or not they like to play with items or not and then they are matched with people with similar tastes. I also think Nintendo should look into hosting online tournaments too in both categories like they did with Mario Kart Wii.

 

[Johnknight1]

MOAR LONG POSTSSS!!!! *insert evil laugh of your choice here*

It's not so much the logo that's important, It's just the fact that Mario really doesn't need any more characters. Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach represent the entire series perfectly by themselves. So the question is, whether Sakurai is too worried about showing too much favor to one series, or whether having unique characters would override that fear. Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. (I'm not going to agree about Toad, lol) would be very unique (I'm starting to think Bowser Jr. would be more unique moveset-wise...) so even though I feel the Mario series doesn't need any more characters, at the same time I think it'd be a shame if those two were kept out due to fear of over-representation.

Sakurai should make whoever is popular, whoever is original, whoever could add something unique to the series, and whoever who can make you say "WHAT THE HELL IS THAT THING!?!?!?" as Sakurai sees fit. And every time he does this, he pleases some people, and angers others. But he's ultimately got to make the best roster(s) he can as he sees fit. He practically made up a character with the Pokémon Trainer! XD Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. are both popular, could be be original, and both could be added representation. Toad could as well (I don't want Toad, but I could understand why he'd choose Toad). Mario simply has more characters with more to offer than nearly every other series, Pokémon and possibly Zelda aside, and many upon many of them are very popular and well-known like Toad, Paper Mario, and Bowser Jr.

If they want to go down the "Moar Mario" route, I just want them to give characters to series that need them. I.E. Ridley. r_r Overrepresentation is one thing, but overrepresenting when you could have spent time on other things FIRST that people want MORE is another.

I agree. Characters who add, instead of are just merely there. I can understand the Falco and Wolf thing, because they added a lot with a little development time, but overall every character was original. Luigi in Brawl went from being a semi-clone to almost entirely original. However, wouldn't you say that if a Mario character warranted a spot as much as a 4th Star Fox character and would add just as much, you would go with the Mario character? (that's right; this discussion is this now officially smash bros. character addition ethics discussion thread! )

Also, on Ridley: ...He has legs, y'know. :V He should have a good air game, that's just part of his character, but there's no reason he would be unfeasible because he tends to fly around a lot in the games, lol. He'll just have multiple jumps like any other flying character.

First off, I REALLLY WANT RIDLEY! I feel like he was robbed from me last time, even more so than Dixie Kong or Mega Man. However, I can see where Sakurai comes from. Charizard is a dragon that has most of his body size and weight in his torso. Pit's has a regular human body, plus wings and a crown thing. Meta Knight is literally Kirby's species with wings. Most of Ridleys' size and weight is in his wings, and he has a small torso.

My only fear is that he would have no ground game, or it would be unreliable, and he would have to be based on flight. Think about how hard it would be to balance out a character with wings that big and body that small. I understand that we can make him smaller, but his body ratio should stay about that same, and that would be hard to balance. So either you change him completely, or you risk killing the balance of the game. That would be extremely hard to execute. However, I will say with two games and possibly two separate studios/groups of people making these games, it could definitely help his chances, along with the new technology both systems present.

And, yes. He has legs. o_O Half of his fight time in the prime trilogy took place on the ground.

Again, it's the wing-span to body size ratio that concerns me, and how Sakurai could tinker that or use it, and what limitations or unbalanced game play it could represent; nothing else. It'd be sweet to play as someone (or something) with those big of wings, but it would be a daunting character design to make.

ALSOOO: ...Isn't it just the Metroid Prime games that are unpopular in Japan?

Yes, but that's 4 of the 9 games, 5 of the 10 if you include Pinball (but who does?).

As far as the the different communities go, I say that it can be demonstrated the span in which players make their connections. From what I can tell, Brawl cradled the concept of online in a way that barred players from being progressively casual with it.

How I mean is, it isn't that much of a stretch in having an online experience akin to FPS or other online Fighters. There are various modes that one has access to that don't take away from folks that are simply trying to have a good time.

Perhaps the notion that Nintendo is bearing away from codes with play to our advantage.

Brawl's online was laggy and boring. It cradled the casual too much. When facing your friends, there should be unlimited options as to what you can do. 99 stock super sized invisible bunny hood slow-mo high gravity metal super spicy with wings characters? YES!!

Tournament brackets? YES! Monthly official Nintendo tournaments for three years? YES! User-held tournaments with tournament mode online? YES! (did anyone else enter those Melee online tournaments? I lost to the guy who came in 3rd or 4th on the 2nd day...)

Leaderboards? YES! Quick and easy competitive and casual matchmaking? YES Rankings? YES! Clans and groups? Yes! (to where if I form a clan it actually has a reason to be active!) The end of friends' codes! YES! I will sell my kidney to charity to ride this world of this evil!

I mean really, this all helps both the competitive and casual community. If everyone wins, nobody loses. Let us also hope the Wii U has online more like Xbox Live or the Playstation Network (minus getting hacked) than the Wii's nearly nonexistent online. I almost never used the Wii's online? The PS3 or Xbox 360's? That's almost the only thing I do on those consoles, and why I play them every week, versus barely once a month with the Wii!

Also, who else feels tripping needs to happen more, kills you 1 in 8 times, and should cause a specific new Pokémon to evolve?