*NEW* matchup discussion week #6: Wario!

[Denzi]

Okay, moving right along, we've got Wario this week.

Wario is a character with insane air mobility and an interesting playstyle. Who wins this one?

Watch out for Farts.
(I'll add points as the discussion goes on.)

 

[Typ_Ex]

jab/nair is awesome.

 

[Denzi]

jab/nair is awesome.

His Nair is better, and I think his Dair beats all our aerials.

If you hit Wario's shield with ANYTHING (other than laser/Phantasm), he can OoS nair you.

We do outrange him on the ground though. this is one ov those matchups where spacing is very important.

Watch out for Bites through shield.

We can GR -> Dair Wario at the ledge. Dunno what else is guaranteed.

Lasers are really effing good in this MU. Phantasm too as long as you aren't predictable.

 

[clowsui]

against wario you have to be careful to space. he is pretty good at punishing escape attempts so what you want to do is not get in those sticky situations in the first place

 

[gunterrsmash01]

This is kinda like the MK matchup except you can be a bit more aggressive.... also if they jump break out of grab, you get a free fsmash

 

[Notra]

This is kinda like the MK matchup except you can be a bit more aggressive.... also if they jump break out of grab, you get a free fsmash

very important, cause wario is hard to kill. dies alot higher than mk

 

[DEHF]

LOL my best match-up. This is 50-50, I would say RC is the worst stage to play a Wario on.

 

[Mew2King]

oovideogamegodoo (12:49:12 AM): what is the wario falco MU
Fiction52s (12:49:42 AM): absolutely hugely falco's favor
oovideogamegodoo (12:49:48 AM): LMFAO
oovideogamegodoo (12:49:50 AM): im posting this
oovideogamegodoo (12:49:52 AM): MAD funny
Fiction52s (12:49:53 AM): its so freaking hard
Fiction52s (12:49:57 AM): you dont get it
Fiction52s (12:49:58 AM): >_<
oovideogamegodoo (12:50:08 AM): u will understand in one second

BAM

XD

i had to

 

[ssbbFICTION]

LOL my best match-up. This is 50-50, I would say RC is the worst stage to play a Wario on.

You shut up you dirty cheater.

I wish I'd recorded all the times you were laughing because you could just wall me out with jab utilt and cg spike me at 65 >_<. Don't you be in here polluting their thoughts with your lies!

 

[Tommy_G]

ummm what happened to that 50-140 cg wario has on falco

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Let's get a few things straight from my experience. Wario is very good close up if he can get inside falco's defences. One mistake will lead to a few combo set-ups which end with falco offstage and in a bad position.

But, getting wario inside your defences should be difficult. The battle with wario is all about positioning. Be sure you are always in a safe position/spacing against wario. Wario is hard to predict if he is above you. I would suggest never trying to approach wario from underneath him. Trying to predict this is risky, so it's better to not even try. Wario cannot do much do use if you always keep him in front of you.

Playing defensively is key also. Spaced Bair and boost pivot grabs are extremely safe from what I have noticed. Boost Pivot Grabs at the right time will avoid SH aerial approaches and punish attempts of wario trying to get behind you. Bair is good because it pretty much clashes or beats out wario's options. Close range lasering is risky becuase of airdodge and the bike. IAP is also great at resetting spacing in this match-up. Get cornered at the edge of the stage and wario is in the air, IAP underneath him when you get the chance to reset spacing.

Everything else about wario isn't that much of a problem. our ground game I feel is > than wario.

Killing is a problem, but if you play a good defence game that isn't too much of a problem as you would be keeping him out of range of trying to kill you.

Remember that wario does not get forced air release unless he is not touching the ground. He can get air released, but only if the person escaping does the wrong inputs that causes an air release.

The match-up I feel is extremely stage biase. On FD or SV it's pretty easy to predict wario, but on something like BF with platforms where Wario can get above you and behind you easily is troublesome.

 

[DEHF]

You shut up you dirty cheater.

I wish I'd recorded all the times you were laughing because you could just wall me out with jab utilt and cg spike me at 65 >_<. Don't you be in here polluting their thoughts with your lies!

Only you would complain about an even match up lol and jab u tilt on wario is so fun to do =)

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Only you would complain about an even match up lol and jab u tilt on wario is so fun to do =)

You say that falco IC's is practically even too and why is that 50000000 times easier than trying to go wario?

 

[PhantomX]

I want to play Larry

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I want to play Larry

I want to play the "let's discuss the match-up game". But, sadly I am the only one that feels this way.

 

[DEHF]

You say that falco IC's is practically even too and why is that 50000000 times easier than trying to go wario?

maybe I just know how your Wario plays from playing that match up for over a year .-.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

maybe I just know how your Wario plays from playing that match up for over a year .-.

Lol dude you can't deny that falco has some pretty **** options to hit wario out of most of his stuff. People call wario cg but honestly its so hard to grab u at the rite percent u just keep side-bing or platform camp. Thers no way its even!

 

[DEHF]

You honestly believe this match up is 60-40?

 

[PhantomX]

I think it's even if the Wario is careful... can live to ridiculously high percents against Falco which makes up for all the gay. Then again... I want to play Larry.

 

[clowsui]

i had a feeling utilt would work well in this MU similar to how sheik can just utilt all day and wario can't approach with dair because it trades. granted it works in his favor because of the damage that he can take as opposed to sheik but it stuffs his dair approach and sheik's utilt and ftilt serve as a great wall to his fair/bair shenanigans too

 

[Vlade]

I actually think battlefield is a really good stage, wario has more trouble approaching on it

But for the love of god, avoid being above wario. 17% uair is nasty business and he juggles **** well. I think that this should be falco's main goal for the matchup (kinda like against MK too)

 

[gunterrsmash01]

I think its at least 55-45 falcos favor

 

[Corrupted]

He can't really juggle because his uair can't force airdodges, only bait them, due to high ending lag.

 

[Typ_Ex]

grab release spike does nothing more than guarantee a spike. however, it is easier for warios to DI towards the stage and tech it. ive had this talk w/ PX and DMG when it comes to fighting our wario representative.

 

[iFudge]

match-up is weird for both sides even tho i think falco has abit of advantage.

 

[Notra]

falco owns these skys, wario can buy a ticket if he want some.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

55:45 in falcos favor. Probably my best known mu, heh.

 

[Lord Chair]

55:45 in falcos favor. Probably my best known mu, heh.

So, that.

Also Falco is really gay.

 

[Typ_Ex]

I don't really think its too difficult to grab falco at around 50. than again i dont camp w/ lasers against wario.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

There is no way this is worse than 55:45 either way. I agree that it's 50:50.

 

[o0 DR3W 0o]

[as Falco]
Killing's a *****.
Getting back to the stage's *****.
Dair's a *****.
Spam lasers to force approach (obviously).
Bair's fun.
Nair's cool.
Jab/utilt are cool.

[as Wario]
Avoiding chaingrab is a *****.
Approaching's a *****.
Approaching then successfully hitting is a *****.
Recovering's a ***** (sometimes).

Probably 50:50.

Edit: all ***** = *****

 

[MetalMusicMan]

[as Falco]
Killing's a *****.
Getting back to the stage's *****.
Dair's a *****.
Spam lasers to force approach (obviously).
Bair's fun.
Nair's cool.
Jab/utilt are cool.

[as Wario]
Avoiding chaingrab is a *****.
Approaching's a *****.
Approaching then successfully hitting is a *****.
Recovering's a ***** (sometimes).

Probably 50:50.

Edit: all ***** = *****

I agree, this is a ***** for both characters. Gotta be 50:50.

 

[Sky`]

Without the Chaingrab, this M U is 60-40.
With the CG, it's 55-45.

Wario should never really be able to approach you. If he comes from above, Uptilt, if he comes from the side, Ftilt, there really is no better way to explain it. Your Jab, Ftilt, and utilt all beat out his aerials. Seems easy right?

Well, the thing is, mixups are quite a pain. Beyond the general camply play style you have to play, if he decides to Air dodge instead of Dair, then he grabs you, you're in for some nasty followups. Furthermore, getting back on the stage is just as frustrating as it is against Marth, because all of his Ariels hit you just soft enough so that a follow up can be administered with your happy 20 frame landing lag. Further more, if the player can do the CG, you're in for a nice 52-110 combo.

But don't worry, With your Utilt and your Ftilt keeping him away and in check, this MU is really about mediocre reads, playing it Safe, and not getting ***** by Dair. Who ever said you have to approach Wario?

A hidden option you have, is in your shield if they decide to Nair you, you can Boost Pivot Grab OOS to grab them, it's really handy. Also, when they come down with Dair, you can boost Pivot Grab them extremely safely. Take note that your Soft Bair and your Lasers hit Wario off his bike.

Additionally, while Wario is recovering, his Up B doesn't always sweet spot, so charge that Fsmash, it might hit the top of their head, and kill them.

Also, do you Falco's understand how big the hitbox of your Bair is? Learn it, because the hitbox is also on the top of his head. big enough, so that if you're directly below him, while he is jumping or just above you, it will hit him. It's **** hear around his entire body. It serves as an excellent punishment for Wario in the air in lieu of Fair punishments. The Dthrow LL starts at about 55 Percent.

Falco's Nair is very useful in this MU in my opinion. An easy way to punish his Air dodges, as well as his Aerials. My only hang up, is that you shouldn't really be in the position to use it much. If you are finding yourself using Nair a lot up close, you're playing this matchup incorrectly. Granted, you'll use it, but not more than 5-10 times a match.

Become too predictable, and this MU will be frustrating. Stay calm, collected, safe, and this MU is yours. They shouldn't be able to get that grab in anyway if you're playing perfectly.

So in conclusion,

I'd say 60-40, Assuming no CG.
55-45 if they can do it 100% consistently, which honestly, not many Wario's can do on the spot under pressure. But even then, it's one of those MU's where it can NEVER be in Wario's Favor. I think that a good mentality for this MU, is remember, that this match up is EXTREMELY hard for the Wario. They will be more frustrated than you 100% of the time, if you capitalize on their frustration, you should have an easier time.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Also, do you Falco's understand how big the hitbox of your Bair is? Learn it, because the hitbox is also on the top of his head. It's **** hear around his entire body. It serves as an excellent punishment for Wario in the air in lieu of Fair punishments. The Dthrow LL starts at about 55 Percent. .

Lol his head? no. just no.

 

[Typ_Ex]

why isn't sky in the fbr? he seems knowledgeable enough to be the SBR

 

[DEHF]

Wario's dair is pretty easy to DI out of once you know how t o do it.

If Wario counter picks Brinstar, you can grab release him on the slopes of the stage.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Wario's dair is pretty easy to DI out of once you know how t o do it.

If Wario counter picks Brinstar, you can grab release him on the slopes of the stage.

I'm mad you didn't tell us how >.>

 

[Lord Chair]

why isn't sky in the fbr? he seems knowledgeable enough to be the SBR

Because the FBR is utter crap (oh no I didn't).

Also, if you really get Wario to the point of using upB you might as well bair stagespike or just...


EDGEHOG

 

[DEHF]

Because the FBR is utter crap (oh no I didn't).

Also, if you really get Wario to the point of using upB you might as well bair stagespike or just...


EDGEHOG

F smash is better than a bair stage spike. With a bair stage spike you give them a better chance of surviving if they know how to tech.

 

[Sky`]

Larry, can you confirm my writeup? =/