that doesn't work that well, Falco can shield it then drop from the platform and land an aerial. He might be able to hit them with an up smash out of shield as well.
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*NEW* Falco Match-Up Thread ~ Week #13: Olimar
- Thread starter Denzi
- Start date
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Notra is right.
A good Ice Climbers player will not get chaingrabbed whilst Nana is still alive. And usually you won't kill Nana while Popo is still in chaingrab percent, effectively making our chaingrab almost useless. And our cg > dair can be avoided with ease, whereas IC's cg > fair is much more effective and a lot harder to avoid.
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
It is possible to delay our chain grab so that the lasers from it hit Nana away. Then, each time she runs back, you time the down throw to knock her away again.
Obviously they have a better CG than us, but we can chain grab them with Nana still around, it's just kind of hard to setup and it makes it more likely for them to break out if you miss the timing.
Denzi
Smash Master
Yeah, Wario next, I'lll get it soon.
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
What are we settling on here, anyway?
Oh awesome we should do Toon Link soon Lol
Or have we done him?
PurpleTop
Smash Cadet
god i hate fighting against a good Ice Climbers player. Just so frustrating.
Denzi
Smash Master
thexsunrosered
Smash Lord
you should definitely take the more informative posts from each discussion and put them in the OP. When I come to a match up thread, I don't look for numbers, its not like knowing the match up 60-40 falco is gonna help me at all. Yes it's nice to know, but this thread doesn't help anyone who doesn't participate in the discussion at the time it takes place
Cloud9157
Smash Journeyman
Dunno if we're still on ICs or on Wario, but I feel ICs/Falco should be 55:45 ICs if not even.
I don't really have problems with camping them, and its tough to respond with Blizzard when Falco is going to Phantasm. Reflector stops Blizzard and Ice Blocks. If they get too close for comfort, jab is a great tool to get them off.
Problem is trying to split the 2. I still like Phantasm to do this since it pops them into the air at higher percents.
Getting the kill won't be that hard. They don't live too long, even for Falco's power.
I don't really have problems with camping them, and its tough to respond with Blizzard when Falco is going to Phantasm. Reflector stops Blizzard and Ice Blocks. If they get too close for comfort, jab is a great tool to get them off.
Problem is trying to split the 2. I still like Phantasm to do this since it pops them into the air at higher percents.
Getting the kill won't be that hard. They don't live too long, even for Falco's power.
Guardian Falco
Smash Rookie
I faced IC on FD big mistake. 
lol
lol
Notra
Smash Ace
can we move on? i think we'd all agree on 55:45 falco. who's next olimar? pika?
Denzi
Smash Master
We'll go Pika but OH GOD Olimar sounds like a good idea after that. I hate him xD
Denzi
Smash Master
That'll be helpful.
Pika right now guys.
Pika right now guys.
iFudge
Banned via Warnings
Err shl laser. phantasm/ jab. Is my key to victory. Really not too many pika's where i live. I'll try to fine some good one's on lol-wifi Today.
Shade26
Smash Cadet
I'm just adding this in late, but you can always hit with an Usmash from a jab if you do a Buffered Dacus in the middle of the jab.(I found this out 2 weeks before the Buffered Dacus was founded but I didn't know what it was since I was trying to doa normal DACUS)
How do you do the buffered Dacus?
dainbramage
Smash Journeyman
No way. Jab --> grab isn't guaranteed and that's 6 frames. Buffered DACUS is 9 frames.
clowsui
Smash Legend
this x 1000. jab->grab is **** hard to react to though
plus you can do double jab mixupOk I realize that we've moved off the IC's matchup but I think that matchup should be at least 60:40 in favour of the IC's. I just spent the last two days getting my falco owned by my friend who plays IC's because whenever he got a grab it was a guaranteed 0-death as he would SoPo chaingrab me to the edge of the stage and then spike me. Is there some way to SDI out of this that I'm missing, because if there isn't then I don't see how it can be 55:45. In addition thanks for the tip about chaingrabbing IC's, however my friend still survives the spike at the end of the cg whenever he is in cg percent.
EDIT: I changed to Snake to beat his IC's and then the vicious circle of counterpick begun.
EDIT: I changed to Snake to beat his IC's and then the vicious circle of counterpick begun.
Notra
Smash Ace
this is what pika can do when its **** time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7sAXnTIPro
u can find me losing to him as well on youtube, not that bad but still losing none the less.
Anthers in my state i dont play him too much, but ive def watched him play a million times.
fyi the sad part is at the end of the video. and this is months ago, anthers alot better now, and play pretty different.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7sAXnTIPro
u can find me losing to him as well on youtube, not that bad but still losing none the less.
Anthers in my state i dont play him too much, but ive def watched him play a million times.
fyi the sad part is at the end of the video. and this is months ago, anthers alot better now, and play pretty different.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Yeah, CG spike doesn't work.
I agree that IC's are about 55-45 on Falco. It's not as bad as you think, as long as the Falco player has learnt how to plank, camp and space properly specifically for this MU, knows how to seperate efficiently and can kill Nana early-ish to begin timing out the Sopo.
Anyway, Pika's discussion is practically done. Let's do Olimar.
(Yeah I'm back now honeys)
I agree that IC's are about 55-45 on Falco. It's not as bad as you think, as long as the Falco player has learnt how to plank, camp and space properly specifically for this MU, knows how to seperate efficiently and can kill Nana early-ish to begin timing out the Sopo.
Anyway, Pika's discussion is practically done. Let's do Olimar.
(Yeah I'm back now honeys)
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
M@v
Subarashii!
I still don't see how pika is harder than Icys. I know he has a **** cg just like them, but I just feel Falco has an easier time overall vs pika than he does vs icys, particularly in the camping category.
I feel its a lot harder to out camp the ice climbers than it is to out camp pika. Also, our aerial game is overall better than his :/. We really can't rely on reflecting his thunder, since almost every pika at the level we are talking about actually does have common sense :/ Lastly, at least we can cg pika back and follow it up with a tech chase.
TL:DR
Both matchups are hard, since they can both 0-death us
I feel Pika is less difficult than ice climbers due to:
-Falco outcamps pika
-Falco out-prioritizes pika, meanwhile ice climbers has some brick wall moves, like the blizzard and upair.
-Falco has a better aerial game than pika.
-We have a cg on pika. Nana will interrupt the cg on ice climbers.
I feel its a lot harder to out camp the ice climbers than it is to out camp pika. Also, our aerial game is overall better than his :/. We really can't rely on reflecting his thunder, since almost every pika at the level we are talking about actually does have common sense :/ Lastly, at least we can cg pika back and follow it up with a tech chase.
TL:DR
Both matchups are hard, since they can both 0-death us
I feel Pika is less difficult than ice climbers due to:
-Falco outcamps pika
-Falco out-prioritizes pika, meanwhile ice climbers has some brick wall moves, like the blizzard and upair.
-Falco has a better aerial game than pika.
-We have a cg on pika. Nana will interrupt the cg on ice climbers.
Denzi
Smash Master
You have enough time to break out of IC's chain grabs, assuming they grab you when desynced are chain grab you too slow.
Falco's down b has more range than blizzard and reflects.
It doesn't matter if Falco can outcamp Pikachu, he doesn't need to, Pikachu has enough mobility to get to falco.
Falco can still chain grab Popo. Nana is able to stop the chain grab, but it doesn't mean that it will always happen.
Ice Climbers need Nana in order to do their chain grab. Once she's gone, the match will fall into our favor.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Once you guys get done with ICs, I feel as though you guys should rediscuss D3.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Hmm... D3. I don't feel we hard counter D3 anymore, but that's just me. It'll be an interesting discussion.
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
I agree I don't think it's worse than 65:35 us, it might even only be 60:40.
BOLT08
Smash Lord
I am very experienced in this D3 match-up. It's not near as bad people think. 60-40 is probably my vote. I will post more once the thread for D3 is put up.
swordsaint
Smash Master
It's been a while since D3 was discussed, so there's more than likely things that I'm doing wrong, not to mention I really don't get much D3 experience because there's no good ones in my state. Though when I do play good, versatile players who can adapt to using different characters, if I have to vs their D3 in friendlies it's awkward.
His weight, DI, strength, ability to beat phantasm and a bunch of other annoying things makes me think it's probably only 55-45 us. However, depending on what I hear I could definately say 60/40 if I'm missing something.
His weight, DI, strength, ability to beat phantasm and a bunch of other annoying things makes me think it's probably only 55-45 us. However, depending on what I hear I could definately say 60/40 if I'm missing something.
Lets get one thing straight.
When IC's Grab you, they usually dash grab you unless you get Read. At that point, they will normally start the Bthrow cg assuming you're out of Dthrow grab percent. You can buffer struggles, and struggle out.
Pikachu can start a CG the second he grabs you, and it can start at various percents. You can not buffer struggle out.
Big difference.
When IC's Grab you, they usually dash grab you unless you get Read. At that point, they will normally start the Bthrow cg assuming you're out of Dthrow grab percent. You can buffer struggles, and struggle out.
Pikachu can start a CG the second he grabs you, and it can start at various percents. You can not buffer struggle out.
Big difference.