*NEW* Falco Match-Up Thread ~ Week #13: Olimar

[Overswarm]

OS Falco doesn't have to use d tilt to put Rob in the position you were talking about. He can also use dair or dash attack, dair being the one that would put them in the worse position.

Yeah, I was focusing more on stationary ground play. Stuff you can do out of lasers. Dash attack actually doesn't put him in the same position though; it's easier to DI and often puts Falco behind ROB, which makes it much easier to land. Still better than d-tilt by a mile though due to safety.

The Gyro does help against Falco's camping, but not greatly. If Rob is holding a gyro Falco can still camp safely if he just does shl instead of shdl from a distance. Rob would also be at a disadvantage if Falco were to manage to get in close to Rob while he was holding the gyro.

SHL is not really very threatening, especially since ROB can punish it easily from about half the length of battlefield. The idea behind holding a gyro isn't to shut Falco down, but to limit his options so that ROB has an easier time dealing with lasers. If the Falco is inexperienced enough to double laser it's an easy punish; SHL is much harder to punish and a better solution for Falco but still not fool proof from a glide toss in the slightest.

The trick to beating a ROB holding the gyro is in fact to get close on him though. If you just ignore lasers completely you can do some serious damage. ROB still has some good close quarters combos (z drop OoS to fair catch to glide toss grab/f-smash is epic), but they are all extremely difficult and situational, while Falco can get in a really good position if he gets off a dair or nair shield poke.

The Reverse up b edge guard can be avoided if the Falco cancels his up b correctly. Being able to cancel the side b helps out Falco by great amount in this match up. It probably saves him from being bair about half the time in this match up

up+B? I'm assuming you mean over-b. ROB can still hit him out of this via a fast-fall if he spaces it correctly, but I agree with its usefulness. It'll save Falco a ton.

 

[DEHF]

Falco's dash attack will send you in the position you mentioned earlier regardless of DI depending on which part of the dash attack hits you.

The shl laser isn't at threating at as the double one, but the gyro punish you mentioned would only happen if the Falco was SHLed at after rob threw the gyro or if falco was doing shl close, just outside of Rob's f tilt range

 

[Overswarm]

Falco's dash attack will send you in the position you mentioned earlier regardless of DI depending on which part of the dash attack hits you.

Are you positive? This wasn't the case against the Falco's I played, but I'm assuming you hit with a different part of the dash attack.

The shl laser isn't at threating at as the double one, but the gyro punish you mentioned would only happen if the Falco was SHLed at after rob threw the gyro or if falco was doing shl close, just outside of Rob's f tilt range

It's quite a bit farther than that, I assure you, but it isn't an end all to the matchup at all in either case. Just something that lessens Falco's double laser game.

 

[clowsui]

haha this is entertaining + interesting

can't wait to fight your ROB again os. $3 MM falco v. rob next time we meet?

also if you hit with falco's leg (the stronger hitbox) it'll definitely pop rob up

 

[Teran]

Hey guys, try not to troll OS, I mean he is a guest on our boards and stuff.

 

[DEHF]

It's not really the position of the dash attack but the timing. If you can hit someone in the middle or the ending of the dash attack DI won't how much affect on where you go.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I just realized Xonar is from Holland, and the world makes more sense now.


I wish I could have played SK92 or DEHF when I was in my prime with ROB, there were a lot of things I really wanted to test out.

I'd gladly MM you rob vs falco any time we meet.

 

[Overswarm]

I'd gladly MM you rob vs falco any time we meet.

Big man, challenging an MK main from across the sea you'll never see to a money match from his first main on Brawl's release.

=P

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Big man, challenging an MK main from across the sea you'll never see to a money match from his first main on Brawl's release.

=P

I don't see the problem

 

[Overswarm]

I lol'd becasue I saw your sig while reading that

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

**** He-man is popular.
Anyway we're too far offtopic atm.

I was wondering, if you really quit rob, how did you gain experience in the matchup? Aren't you outdated in terms of rob vs falco metagame?

 

[Overswarm]

I've kept up to date with ROB; when I quit I was at a point that was better than the majority of ROBs that mained him then that still play now. The only one I can consider a potential equal would be Holy Nightmare. The matchup hasn't changed much. What you've said in this thread is the same thing Falco's said over a year ago. There have only been technical advances, really.

 

[Vlade]

I have to agree, the matchup against ROB has really been the same

 

[6Mizu]

So what do you guys think the MU w/ ROB is?
I think it's even or 55:45 Falco.

 

[Overswarm]

It's close enough to where the stages have a drastic effect. If the starter list is bad, ROB loses because Falco will inevitably get a good starter on a 3-5 starter list. If the starter list is good, it's much more in ROB's favor as Falco is heavily influenced by the stage he's on.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

55:45 falco seems to be the overall accepted ratio. I still personally think 60/40, like DEHF, but w.e

 

[6Mizu]

55:45 falco seems to be the overall accepted ratio. I still personally think 60/40, like DEHF, but w.e

So 55:45 Falco...then?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yosh, sounds fine.

 

[Karcist]

I personally think its 60-40 Falco because ROB just seems to eat every single laser that comes his way because of his giant frame.

 

[Overswarm]

See? Noobs are still noobs.

 

[6Mizu]

I personally think its 60-40 Falco because ROB just seems to eat every single laser that comes his way because of his giant frame.

See? Noobs are still noobs.

LOLZ!
Nice one OS.

 

[Wulfy07]

On the marth match up, I don't think it's changed much. On one hand, Marth is still a solid player with a predictable but effective game. We can still laser camp it but that doesn't greatly affect his ability to approach. He does have an easier time killing Falco than the bird killing him, and dolphin slash is still wrecking my chain grabs most of the time. *That's my own error, but it is important to note that he can really punish a missed chain grab.*

Overall, I'd say that the match up hasn't changed that much from my perspective and stays 40-60 in Marth's favor in terms of theory craft. While my chain grab gets wrecked, I don't think it's quite as bad as 40-60, but hey, it's opinion. I've been...okay against Marths and in practice, I could feel 45-55 , but really, that's just a lack of Marths on my level. It's usually guys below me or someone who's ranked in my region (which means I put only so much weight on it...there just better than me, period).

 

[Arcadia]

Can we please move on?

Pretty plz, with bread on top (and bottom)?

 

[hippiedude92]

i just read the chart, but not the discussions, but why does Falco lose to Pikachu and ICs so badly? O_o and why does he lose to GaW? just wondering.

 

[Denzi]

i just read the chart, but not the discussions, but why does Falco lose to Pikachu and ICs so badly? O_o and why does he lose to GaW? just wondering.

GnW needs re-discussion. Pika has a 0-120% CG on us, and Ic's have a 0%-death, Nana to absorb laser hits, Blizzard to go through Phantasm, and we have no safe way of separating them.

 

[6Mizu]

I think this is EVEN.

 

[__Gold__]

GnW needs re-discussion. Pika has a 0-120% CG on us, and Ic's have a 0%-death, Nana to absorb laser hits, Blizzard to go through Phantasm, and we have no safe way of separating them.

Thats so true but with pika you can phantasm to not get into cg
and then for his thunder reflect and for IC yeah it sucks idk how to beat them D:<

 

[Denzi]

Thats so true but with pika you can phantasm to not get into cg

You can't just assume you'll ba able to
avoid everything when writing up match-up ratios. And actually, Pika has an okay time keeping up with us due to his QAC and projectiles.

Also, good Pika players will use aerial Thunder (when they even use it) so as to not get hit if we happen to reflect it.

 

[Wulfy07]

True, but pikachu versus Falco according to the Falco boards is 55-45... the chain grab is also much, much harder to do to 90 than people think (according to the pika mains I know around here)

 

[Denzi]

True, but pikachu versus Falco according to the Falco boards is 55-45... the chain grab is also much, much harder to do to 90 than people think (according to the pika mains I know around here)

It's also easier than people think, if that makes sense. And we haven't gone over matchups in a while, we're just starting again. He didn't have the CG at the time we finished the first discussion.

 

[Cloud9157]

Don't like the 7-3 ICs

Don't think it's really all that bad. Falco laser camps and Phantasms to get away.

Nana tanking lasers for Popo does kinda suck, but my take on it is that if she takes the lasers, that means she goes higher up than Popo if they get hit by a Phantasm. Other than that, yeah I'm not seeing too many ways to separate them.

I'd say 6:4 at least, even wouldn't be too far out of sight either.

/scrubinput

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Kirby GW ROB and Marth should be even. Falco really only has 2 bad matchups. IC and pika.

Pika is prob 40-60 and IC is 45-55

just my input

 

[Notra]

Kirby GW ROB and Marth should be even. Falco really only has 2 bad matchups. IC and pika.

Pika is prob 40-60 and IC is 45-55

just my input

i pretty much agree, icees rly cant touch us, unless we mess up. the top of the blizzard we can phantasm through and still hit them. desyncing = they get hit by a lazer and resync. on a lvl w/ platforms they cant grab us from recovering onto those platforms, and our reflector is boss, when used right. only problem is having to kill at high as **** %'s. 45- 55 aint too bad.

pikachu however. is annoying. that grab isnt that hard. and a decent pika and beat a good falco w/ it. and a great pika (anther) is just unbearable. ive played him quite a few times (same state) and he can do the lock and cg in match. infact he does them at least once a tourney. but pika is around 65-35, 60-40.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I agree Pika is like 40-60.

I'm not sure I agree with IC's being 45-55 though... should probably be at least 40-60 or more.


Also Kirby and G&W are 45-55 at least, maybe 40-60 IMO, but yeah they aren't "bad".

 

[Jon?]

The ICs matchup is no less than 60-40 for ICs favor. Desync blizzard is impossible to break with phantasm. A standing ICs will just desync ice blocks and our lasers cannot hit them.

You have to play very smart in order to separate the two. Once you can do that, it is very easy to gimp or kill one of the ICs.


Pikachu is one little yellow ***** of a fight. Good planking abilities and thundershock camping makes this matchup very difficult. QACing is also another problem to deal with.

 

[Notra]

The ICs matchup is no less than 60-40 for ICs favor. Desync blizzard is impossible to break with phantasm. A standing ICs will just desync ice blocks and our lasers cannot hit them.

You have to play very smart in order to separate the two. Once you can do that, it is very easy to gimp or kill one of the ICs.


Pikachu is one little yellow ***** of a fight. Good planking abilities and thundershock camping makes this matchup very difficult. QACing is also another problem to deal with.

when they desync blizz we can just use reflect or shoot a lazer. we can jump inbetween every 2 blocks and still shl.

 

[Jon?]

when they desync blizz we can just use reflect or shoot a lazer. we can jump inbetween every 2 blocks and still shl.

They desnyc blizzard when Falco tries to recover, which makes it very difficult and forces us to recover high, which will most likely lead to a grab if not an easy punish.

You can do grounded lasers all day against desynch ice blocks and the ice blocks will just beat it. SHL inbetween blocks won't do a thing.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Or you get hit with it and just SDI out upwards

 

[Jon?]

Point is you're getting punished for your recovery. Regardless if you SDI upwards, you're still taking extra damage.

 

[Notra]

They desnyc blizzard when Falco tries to recover, which makes it very difficult and forces us to recover high, which will most likely lead to a grab if not an easy punish.

You can do grounded lasers all day against desynch ice blocks and the ice blocks will just beat it. SHL inbetween blocks won't do a thing.

hit the icee while desynced and they resync. so...............yeah it does stuff. and if they do desync blizz on recovery its called the edge. can edge guard and desync blizzrd. maybe blizzard and edge guard. but then we can recover high.