*NEW* Falco Match-Up Thread ~ Week #13: Olimar

[Jon?]

I'm not a big fan of reading huge walls of text.

The only thing we have on ROB is:
1) He's a big laser target
2) Reflector

His f-tilt very good and has lots of range. Dtilt is also unexpected and can lead to trips.

Edit: This kind of debate always happens and going to the other side of the argument isn't the best idea of a solution. Different people have different match up experiences and opinions. This happened a lot with the Kirby-DDD match up.

 

[DEHF]

Maybe DEHF does mean it's for ROB.

it's 60-40 falco

 

[swordsaint]

DEHF thinks everything's 60/40 Falco. =(

That's just cos you're so bloody good.

Reflector isn't really that safe, if the R.O.B is angling his laser it's not going to hit him and he can probably run in afterwards and punish how abyssmally slow it is.

However I will give you the SHL scenario. It's something that always slips my mind, lol. I don't think this MU is in Falco's favour yet though. For the sake of argument I think it's 50/50 AT BEST. However, at the current time because of me always ****ign up lasers I drop to 55/45 R.O.B.

 

[Wulfy07]

DEHF thinks everything's 60/40 Falco. =(

That's just cos you're so bloody good.

Reflector isn't really that safe, if the R.O.B is angling his laser it's not going to hit him and he can probably run in afterwards and punish how abyssmally slow it is.

However I will give you the SHL scenario. It's something that always slips my mind, lol. I don't think this MU is in Falco's favour yet though. For the sake of argument I think it's 50/50 AT BEST. However, at the current time because of me always ****ign up lasers I drop to 55/45 R.O.B.

That would be my guess. I would never think that ROB has that big of an advantage, but to say it's definitely Falco's a stretch. I would actually push 50/50 for good laser game as I chalk up the winner to the player with more of this MU experience/knowledge.

 

[DEHF]

The match up is 60-40. I played HugS a lot when he played brawl in his prime.

ROB's camping is weak compared to Falco's. His laser has a good amount of start up lag and tilts his head back making it obvious when he's going to do it. ROB being so big makes him an easier target as well. His gyro is a move, but is a double edged sword since Falco can reflect it and is also able to throw it too.

ROB's close range is good, but is not able to rack up damage is quickly as Falco. ROB gets chain grabbed from 0 to about 30% and is big enough to dash attack up smash to until high%. Falco can rack up a good amount of damage with jab as well. It is hard to get into good ROB players though since they out range us with their f tilts, jabs, and throws.

The only way ROB can **** Falco is if he gets him off stage since he can use bair, fair, nair, and his laser to keep falco off stage. His only great kill move is his up smash, which is very hard for him to land on falco. His next kill move is his nair, which has a great deal of start up lag and probably won't kill until about 110 or 120.

 

[Wulfy07]

Hm... fair enough.

Maybe it is Falco's advantage?

Still, we probably should stick to discussing Snake since we're getting ahead of ourselves.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

DEHF = truth, falco = win.

Scoot you were complaining about falcos thinking everything is a bad mu : (

 

[swordsaint]

Haha yeah. Dehf thinks everythings advantageous though. =P

I dunno, I can't seem to refine to a standard lol. I'm always too opinionated and see everything differently, I seem to think almost the complete opposite on most of the match ups so far.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I mostly agree with that assessment from DEHF but I still think 60-40 our favor makes it sound more advantageous than it really is... I would think 55-45 to 45-55 would be better. I mean Falco has about as hard of a time killing ROB as he does us, and you didn't touch on that much.

Like... you really think ROB is as easy for Falco as DeDeDe or other 60-40's?




also, yeah... what happened to Snake discussion? lawl

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dedede is harder to kill which kinda makes it about the same imo. ROB is just harder for rob on lower levels

i do think we counter dedede harder then 6040 imo tho

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Dedede is harder to kill which kinda makes it about the same imo. ROB is just harder for rob on lower levels

i do think we counter dedede harder then 6040 imo tho

i always kind of thought dedede was 70/30 but recently i have thought it to be more like 60/40. either way i dunno us having a 60-40 on ROB seems a bit much... i would buy that it was our advantage or his advantage by a small amount, or even, but 60-40 either way seems a bit much.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I'd even go as far as to say Falco Dedede is 55-45, he's just so god**** hard to kill, while you die so easily.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

how does falco die easily lol.

 

[swordsaint]

Wrong phantasms and Falco's weight class, paired with D3's power.

D3 kills us much easier than we do him.

BACK TO SNAKE? YEAH? YEAH!

 

[MetalMusicMan]

how does falco die easily lol.

Is this a serious question? Falco is a light-weight with terrible DI capabilities.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dedede's smashes are **** slow, his air speed is scrub which makes his aerials bad on falco too, and we can turn him around with lasers in the air (hint hint this is epic against bair), his throws don't kill that fast, his utilt has the worst hitbox ever and you shouldnt get hit by it ever ever.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Dedede's smashes are **** slow, his air speed is scrub which makes his aerials bad on falco too, and we can turn him around with lasers in the air (hint hint this is epic against bair), his throws don't kill that fast, his utilt has the worst hitbox ever and you shouldnt get hit by it ever ever.

BAIR. What else is there to say?





...also his air speed doesn't really matter. MK's air speed is the 4th worst in the game, do you ever find that he has problems getting to you? No. Why? Because he's a multi-jump character. Kirby is the same way. All multijump characters have slower air speeds than you would think, but it ends up evening out because their jumps help with mobility.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Lasers turn him around, there aren't really any onstage situations in which you should get hit by bair.
Offstage, maybe, but I doubt that it will hit that often. I occasionally live to 150-200% against dedede because I play the MU safe and gay like falco should in some MUs

 

[Laem]

if d3 has to save his bair for the kill he doesnt have many viable moves left vs a spammy falco ><

 

[MetalMusicMan]

if d3 has to save his bair for the kill he doesnt have many viable moves left vs a spammy falco ><

DeDeDe doesn't need to save anything. It will kill whether it is stale or not, especially on Falco.

 

[DEHF]

D3 is 70-30 falco

 

[CO18]

Yo i got some new ish vs falco ya hearr. Premiere will be live on DEHF at Pound truuuu

 

[DEHF]

Yo i got some new ish vs falco ya hearr. Premiere will be live on DEHF at Pound truuuu

What's premiere?

 

[Teran]

The premiere of his new tactic for beating Falcos with D3.

 

[DEHF]

oh I thought he meant that was the name of his new tactic.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Maybe it will be something like the tactic DEHF used against Tyrant.

 

[Wulfy07]

Dedede is not a bad match up for Falco at all. In fact, Falco dominates. I wouldn't say its quite 70-30 even though I might as well since I'm actually thinking 65-35. DDD is just so punishable and he can't really do anything in the match. Albeit, I'm a little biased against DDD, but that's just me.

 

[DEHF]

Dedede is not a bad match up for Falco at all. In fact, Falco dominates. I wouldn't say its quite 70-30 even though I might as well since I'm actually thinking 65-35. DDD is just so punishable and he can't really do anything in the match. Albeit, I'm a little biased against DDD, but that's just me.

No, what you're saying if right. If falco camps DDD he can't really do anything about it. On top of that, Falco can side b away from DDD by double jumping above him and side b cancelling so that you move further than the regular side b. DDD also gets destroy by falco's full jab combo and will never be able to punish it if you do it properly. His inability to do anything against falco's laser camping and jabs makes the match up 70-30

 

[El Blue]

mr game & watch, kirby, icys,marth, rob and pit MU are wrong...

 

[AvoiD]

And you have 5 posts.

We'll get to their discussions in awhile, you can post why then. :]

 

[DEHF]

He's right though. Pit I'm not very sure about since I haven't actually played anyone that is good with him.

 

[Teran]

And you have 5 posts.

We'll get to their discussions in awhile, you can post why then. :]

Post count don't mean ****, brah.

 

[Jon?]

Best way to kill DDD is to camp him to 200% and land an easy Bair.

 

[Wulfy07]

He's right though. Pit I'm not very sure about since I haven't actually played anyone that is good with him.

I've played a good pit, and similar to ROB, his kill blow are impossible to land. I mean, he has back air that kills at good percents only if hit right, and I think Nair has about the same range, if not, our Bair destroys it. His Fsmash takes a ridiculously high percentage to kill at, with good DI, I've lived to 160%+ getting nailed with it on smashville's edge. (It's multi hit, thus you should have a decent chance at DIing it.) His arrows are annoying, but easily read with a reflect, but if you have a laser game going, he can't get it out. If he reflects lasers, he gets punished. I don't have experience outside of this one guy, but I'd reason something like 60-40 is about right. Maybe there are more gay pits out there that prove the match up is difficult?

Now, on topic of Snake:

juggling has always been an effective method. If we can manage back airs to juggle, we might be able to surprise him with a quick up air to kill him despite his insane survival abilities. Even if that's not a viable option, getting him in the air should be too difficult to do at least once, but would juggling work? I just realized I've never tried it, but when playing as Snake today, I found it insanely difficult to get back to land against Meta Knight. We may not have MK's juggling ability, but it should work to some extent, neh?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I've played a good pit, and similar to ROB, his kill blow are impossible to land. I mean, he has back air that kills at good percents only if hit right, and I think Nair has about the same range, if not, our Bair destroys it. His Fsmash takes a ridiculously high percentage to kill at, with good DI, I've lived to 160%+ getting nailed with it on smashville's edge. (It's multi hit, thus you should have a decent chance at DIing it.) His arrows are annoying, but easily read with a reflect, but if you have a laser game going, he can't get it out. If he reflects lasers, he gets punished. I don't have experience outside of this one guy, but I'd reason something like 60-40 is about right. Maybe there are more gay pits out there that prove the match up is difficult

Uhh... Yeah, I feel the match-up is near impossible if the match is played near the ledge. Pit has numerous tricks to use there. When he is actually on the ledge he is near impossible to touch. Depending upon the ledge. Uair will beat out any offstage approach you use. He can get back on the stage easily by using his shield to deflect lasers Falco might use. Once pit reachs the ledge there really is not much you can do against him there except to let him get back on stage.

Arrows aren't really the problem on stage, but offstage they are evil. Get hit by one arrow at firebird/phantasm recovery level and you will get arrowed to death. This more than easily makes up for pit's killing problems on falco.The trick to pit vs falco seems to be wanting to keep control of the center of the stage to avoid getting knocked off because pit just really messes up Falco's recovery attempts offstage really hard.

Regarding Bair beating out Nair... From what I have experienced, Nair beats out a lot of falco's aerial options. Bair I think simply trades hits at best. But, you have to get into position to use Bair first which really only happens when Pit is high in the air or something like that.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

the problem is that if we'd include planking in all our mus we'd be scrub tier

pit is a pretty strange one, his planking cant hurt you, except on walk through stages, but those are always temporarily... x.x
pit wont take a percentage lead in this mu anyway

 

[swordsaint]

No, what you're saying if right. If falco camps DDD he can't really do anything about it. On top of that, Falco can side b away from DDD by double jumping above him and side b cancelling so that you move further than the regular side b. DDD also gets destroy by falco's full jab combo and will never be able to punish it if you do it properly. His inability to do anything against falco's laser camping and jabs makes the match up 70-30

You may be good, but Dedede CAN do things about Falco's lasers. 70:30 is ridiculous.

I'm leaving the Falco boards now for stupidity reasons.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ciao.

(10char)

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Generally speaking, I would agree with DEHF's assessment on DeDeDe.

I've always thought that Falco-DeDeDe was 70-30, however, recently I have started think that maybe it is is closer to 65-35 or 60-40, but I haven't played enough good DeDeDe's with my Falco to be sure (no one wants to try >_<).

I am very excited to see what CO18 does at Pound though, that will likely have a large effect on whether or not I change how I feel about the matchup.

 

[Teran]

No 10char spam please.

No really don't do it here.