*NEW* Falco Match-Up Thread ~ Week #13: Olimar

[King Funk]

There is a tiny error on the chart, you put Jigglypuff as dark blue when the matchup is noted as 60-40. Awesome chart either way, nothing to say. ^^

And yeah, we really need to rediscuss many matchup, some numbers just don't seem right anymore.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Are we just doing the discussions by going down the tier list? I'm curious to see what the ROB matchup is like now.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I have to commend MMM on that really nice matchup chart. :D

Indeed, great chart there MMM

Thanks ^_^

There is a tiny error on the chart, you put Jigglypuff as dark blue when the matchup is noted as 60-40. Awesome chart either way, nothing to say. ^^

Thanks for keeping an eye out for me

I actually just noticed that the other day-- I already have it fixed on my end but I was waiting until Denzi needed me to update it again to send it to him. So it will be fixed when we finalize one of the new ratios for sure.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Lol rob in his advantage..

giggle

only characters that have 60/40 or worse on us are IC pika and possibly marth : D

 

[Nefarious B]

Just gonna point out that the beauty behind snake's air release CG is it allows him to dthrow you at the ledge. Why would he ever finish in a DA, unless he can score a KO off it? Just dthrow at the edge and now your froll is a terrible option. You already mentioned your getup attack is a bad option because it's away towards, which gives a good snake time to PS. Roll behind, sit there, and normal getup are your only decent options. If Snake is fast he'll turn around grab you out of roll behind, in which case he'll release you back to the other side and dthrow you again, resetting the situation while racking damage, so this is another terrible option.

So yeah if you get grabbed by a competent snake... good luck

 

[Jon?]

Isn't Snake's grab release CG on spacies a bit tricky to get the timing right? I told one of my friends who mained Snake about it and we practiced it for about 20 minutes before we just stopped trying.

 

[Nefarious B]

I don't find it difficult personally once you get the timing for boost grabbing. Practicing pivot boost grabbing with falco is a good way to figure the timing out because it's very obvious when you've done it right, whereas snake just gets a small boost.

 

[Jon?]

If you are getting grab released CG by Snake at low percentages, you shouldn't really worry. It won't rack up much damage. Only at high percentages you wanna keep away from Snake's grab as well as with all his moves.

 

[Vlade]

The main issue with his air release is the fact that it can send you to the edge of the stage and then throw you off, which is a very poor position for falco as we all know

 

[Wulfy07]

Eh, true, but I find that snake's air game is terrible at chasing, so most most of the snakes I know will simple use their upsmash. If Snake chases, spot dodge and maybe phantasm canceling (or not if you've already done that) should keep Snake guessing on where you're going *if in the air. If not, just avoid the little bomb... easier than trying to get back against MK.

 

[swordsaint]

What are we doing getting air released anyway? If the Snake isn't pummeling all we have to do is stop trying to break free so we get ground released.

 

[smashkng]

Snake and Yoshi can force jump break against EVERYONE. So swordsaint, it doesn't matter against Snake.

 

[King Funk]

Lol rob in his advantage..

giggle

only characters that have 60/40 or worse on us are IC pika and possibly marth : D

Agreed, I play a ROB main extremely regularily, and I know that Falco can outcamp the **** out of ROB. I really think it's actually Falco's advantage, unless the players are on a bad Falco stage (Yoshi's, Brinstar, Frigate).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Agreed, I play a ROB main extremely regularily, and I know that Falco can outcamp the **** out of ROB. I really think it's actually Falco's advantage, unless the players are on a bad Falco stage (Yoshi's, Brinstar, Frigate).

I've 2stocked every rob I played so far so there's no way it's 60/40.

 

[Jon?]

I've 2stocked every rob I played so far so there's no way it's 60/40.

I don't see ROB to be that big of an issue. But playing against a top level ROB, it will be difficult. Ith's hard to get inside of ROB. ROB's tilt outranges your attacks. His grabs are very good for juggling or throwing you off stage. Once your offstage, he can easily Nair your recovery.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

He can't approach you and his camping will bite him back because the animations are way to obvious and setups are obvious

just dont go after him and he wont get a hit on you, dont follow up or you'll get naired and thats kinda fail

 

[King Funk]

I don't see ROB to be that big of an issue. But playing against a top level ROB, it will be difficult. Ith's hard to get inside of ROB. ROB's tilt outranges your attacks. His grabs are very good for juggling or throwing you off stage. Once your offstage, he can easily Nair your recovery.

Why would anyone even want to get inside ROB? You can just out camp him with lasers, predict his own laser and gyro, and racking up damage becomes a one-sided job. If by "getting inside" you mean killing then yes, it's not very easy to kill ROB. It's not impossible either.

And once you're offstage, you just have to see where the ROB is placing himself (which often depends on your attitude in regards to recovering):

• does he wait at the middle of the stage? --> phantasm to the ledge
• does he drop off the stage and nair/bair/dair? --> phantasm above ROB
• does he throw his projectiles at you? --> let them hit you if you're at low percent ; if you're at high percent do what you can to avoid them without dropping too low.

 

[Jon?]

When I say "inside of you," I mean when ROB comes to approach you. He has a bigger grab range and his tilts outrange a lot of your attacks. ROB's Nair can easily catch Falco out of phantasm, regardless of if you're going for the ledge or the stage. It has a large lingering hit box.

 

[DEHF]

I've 2stocked every rob I played so far so there's no way it's 60/40.

it's 60-40

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I mean 60/40 for rob xd

 

[King Funk]

I mean 60/40 for rob xd

Maybe DEHF does mean it's for ROB.

 

[swordsaint]

I haven't seen any mention of R.O.B's Fair gimping potential either.

Imo it's 60/40 R.O.B. He can beat out our camping by timing his projectiles right. If it's timed properly it gives him time to move in and pressure Falco.

His range and extreme potential off-stage can be overwhelming at times. I remember once not so long ago, I nearly lost to a R.O.B that I was leagues ahead of merely because throwing me offstage resulted in getted faired in the face. If I jumped away to time my phantasm better, oftentimes I was just easily followed or had my jump cut by another forward air and if you try to just phantasm during it expecting priority to outdo it, well too bad, the fair will get you on phantasm start up.

Paired with R.O.B's decent combo ability with dtilt, jabs, grabs, uair, fair, up tilt, ftilt, dsmash and ability to also limit and follow up with projectiles it makes him for quite the worthy adversary.

R.O.B feels a tiny bit laser heavy, so it might hold him back a bit, but as I said his ability to cut your camping options is more than adequate, and not approaching a R.O.B just makes his LAZORZ stronger. Which can be deadly with a well read recovery as well.

Falco's somewhat slow offstage too, if he starts charging Gyro's well have an even bigger problem. R.O.B's ability to also recovery using his aerials attacks kinda removes any spiking options me might want to attempt. And if we tried to bair them it most likely will be outreached by Nair or fair.

He also has the ability to mix up his kill game a great deal too, and abuse whatever tool a particular Falco is succumbing to. Every Falco has a slightly bigger hole in their game than another person when it comes to a certain weakness of Falco as a character, and R.O.B can greatly exaggerate all of our weaknesses.

Personally, I think landing the kill on a R.O.B would also be tedious. He's defensive enough to be able to chip away and as I said, outcamp us on the higher percentages, so any R.O.B that get's the lead is at an incredible advantage imo.

The fact R.O.B's dtilt sometimes results in tripping is also pretty unfortunate, and due to the speed of it, will likely be getting used often. If the Falco thinks they can be safe spamming or playing near a ledge then they have another thing coming.

My longwinded opinion.

@Xonar. Good R.O.B's are hard to come by. So that's probably why. He's quite an overlooked character by a lot of people.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I haven't seen any mention of R.O.B's Fair gimping potential either.

Imo it's 60/40 R.O.B.

...

Good R.O.B's are hard to come by. So that's probably why. He's quite an overlooked character by a lot of people.

I agree, he's better than most people realize.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

timing it right? As soon as you have a percentage advantage you don't even have to use lasers anymore, just wait till you see the animation and use the reflector.

if your jumps get interrupted learn2jump, seriously it's one of the biggest aspects of smash. How do you even get knocked off stage? Position yourself better in the mu, another large aspect. he is to slow to just ftilt you offstage.

Up close rob has nothing, jab beats it all, or ftilt does. Rolling away from rob is also quite effective. Robs dsmash has sucky kill potential, can be SDI'd out of (even though that makes it a setup, so I rather not) but its his best up close move. it gets beat by jab though (clash, and multiple jab just outranges it because we lean forward : D) Well, maybe dtilt is a nice one, but it lacks range.

I never get hit by robs projectiles, I know the animation and can react on it and I know the usual setups and followups.

Landing a kill on rob is hard, true. I usually do so by Dtilt as it outranges him (except ftilt if he angles it down iirc) or spotdodge utilt.


Oh and this rob player called Reaper got 4th here in holland 2 weeks ago, beating a large part of our top. I 2stocked his rob, but he beat me with snake. if that has something to say about his rob or my MU experience with snake is yours to fill in.

 

[swordsaint]

Sheer ignorance. I only ever hear the same reasoning here ever. "Our jab beat's it or out ftilt does". Seriously. It's so boring hearing the same things repeatedly. Believe it or not, we WILL get hit by these things and they WILL hit more often than you seem to think.

If Falco get's the percent lead sure, he can stop lasering, but hey now! What's this!? R.O.B's approaching without ANY hindrance? BLASPHEMY! -_- So basically, you're now in his range, he's outside yours. WOW, SMART MOVE XONAR. "Falco can stop lasering and reflector when he see's the animation." YEAH, SMART MOVE R.O.B. TOTALLY USING A PROJECTILE ON A COMPLETELY PREPARED FALCO.

R.O.B is floaty. If he bans FD and just uses platforms to prepare everything, Falco's gonna have a difficult time. R.O.B also doesn't have many bad stage I'm particularly aware of, but has many that will benefit him greatly in this MU.

Your reactions aren't godlike, and R.O.B's ftilt and jab are faster than you give credit for, his ftilt is also longer than you give credit for. If you can react to a R.O.B's ftilt quick enough to beat it with jab, I'll give you a cookie.

The fact of the matter is, in this MU R.O.B will almost always know what the Falco is doing, whether it's safe at the time or not, and this gives him a huge advantage in the overall game. R.O.B's forcing Falco to play a particular way and that's never a good thing.

Yeah, killing him with dtilt and spotdodge uptilt is a COOL IDEA BRO. What a high percentage he is on! Spotdodge uptilt? How EASILY punished!

Knowing set-ups and follow-ups isn't everything Xonar. If you're moving to avoid the danger zones, you're moving in to his prediction zones, or areas he's expecting you to recover to, and therefore he's waiting on it.

R.O.B's dsmash DOES have sucky kill potential, why do you think they use it so often for damage? -.-

Obviously, I can't comment on this "Reaper" fellow, but there could've been any number of Factors, and using a one time occurence as an example hardly holds enough merit to sway a match-up discussion.

I apologise, for my rudeness. I had a massive argument with my mother earlier and I am quite ticked off. So anything that seems condescending please take as sarcastic humour and we'll be best friends. <3

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Sheer ignorance. I only ever hear the same reasoning here ever. "Our jab beat's it or out ftilt does". Seriously. It's so boring hearing the same things repeatedly. Believe it or not, we WILL get hit by these things and they WILL hit more often than you seem to think.
I never denied that we will get hit by it, I'm just saying that jab is better overall and will just beat the moves, ofc theres mixup etc but thats personal and has no room in MU discussion

If Falco get's the percent lead sure, he can stop lasering, but hey now! What's this!? R.O.B's approaching without ANY hindrance? BLASPHEMY! -_- So basically, you're now in his range, he's outside yours. WOW, SMART MOVE XONAR. "Falco can stop lasering and reflector when he see's the animation." YEAH, SMART MOVE R.O.B. TOTALLY USING A PROJECTILE ON A COMPLETELY PREPARED FALCO.
Approaching through lasers are not that big a hindrance anyway, they aren't really meant for camping on high level play, just for limiting options. Besides, phantasm and ftilt is just as much an anti-approach as laser.
Well, the point was that you see the projectiles on reaction, which is more then possible as they're really obvious and if you learn to react to it, they can muster as a kill move for you.

R.O.B is floaty. If he bans FD and just uses platforms to prepare everything, Falco's gonna have a difficult time. R.O.B also doesn't have many bad stage I'm particularly aware of, but has many that will benefit him greatly in this MU.
It's true that ROB has stage advantage, but we're used to that anyway and it doesn't stop us from being in S tier. Platforms are (imo) an advantage to Falco, I think Falco just has godlike platform pressure with lasers and aerials, and a laserlock if he knocks you off (or at least guarenteed fsmash)

Your reactions aren't godlike, and R.O.B's ftilt and jab are faster than you give credit for, his ftilt is also longer than you give credit for. If you can react to a R.O.B's ftilt quick enough to beat it with jab, I'll give you a cookie.
It's true that ROBs ftilt and jab are quite fast, but in the situation that he dashes at us, he still has to stop his dash n stuff. We will be in an advantage in terms of speed, especially with jab. He has the choice of range (ftilt) or speed (jab), we have both in 1 jab.

The fact of the matter is, in this MU R.O.B will almost always know what the Falco is doing, whether it's safe at the time or not, and this gives him a huge advantage in the overall game. R.O.B's forcing Falco to play a particular way and that's never a good thing.
I disagree, one of the strengths falco has in this MU is limiting ROBs options. I think you are just being limited by the player, which has no room in a mu discussion

Yeah, killing him with dtilt and spotdodge uptilt is a COOL IDEA BRO. What a high percentage he is on! Spotdodge uptilt? How EASILY punished!
Yeah, because or spotdodge is like 90% immunity. Lol, there are like 1-2 frames on which you can hit him on the end, aka you're dead.
ROB being floaty gives us earlier upwards kills btw, and dtilt and utilt are hardly DI-able iirc

Knowing set-ups and follow-ups isn't everything Xonar. If you're moving to avoid the danger zones, you're moving in to his prediction zones, or areas he's expecting you to recover to, and therefore he's waiting on it.
Knowing what your opponent is doing doesn't always make it punishable.

R.O.B's dsmash DOES have sucky kill potential, why do you think they use it so often for damage? -.-
Well it is their best close up move against falco imo

Obviously, I can't comment on this "Reaper" fellow, but there could've been any number of Factors, and using a one time occurence as an example hardly holds enough merit to sway a match-up discussion.
Well I could give more examples of european rob players that you dont know

I apologise, for my rudeness. I had a massive argument with my mother earlier and I am quite ticked off. So anything that seems condescending please take as sarcastic humour and we'll be best friends. <3

Yeey best falco friends

 

[swordsaint]

Sheer ignorance. I only ever hear the same reasoning here ever. "Our jab beat's it or out ftilt does". Seriously. It's so boring hearing the same things repeatedly. Believe it or not, we WILL get hit by these things and they WILL hit more often than you seem to think.
I never denied that we will get hit by it, I'm just saying that jab is better overall and will just beat the moves, ofc theres mixup etc but thats personal and has no room in MU discussion

If Falco get's the percent lead sure, he can stop lasering, but hey now! What's this!? R.O.B's approaching without ANY hindrance? BLASPHEMY! -_- So basically, you're now in his range, he's outside yours. WOW, SMART MOVE XONAR. "Falco can stop lasering and reflector when he see's the animation." YEAH, SMART MOVE R.O.B. TOTALLY USING A PROJECTILE ON A COMPLETELY PREPARED FALCO.
Approaching through lasers are not that big a hindrance anyway, they aren't really meant for camping on high level play, just for limiting options. Besides, phantasm and ftilt is just as much an anti-approach as laser.
Well, the point was that you see the projectiles on reaction, which is more then possible as they're really obvious and if you learn to react to it, they can muster as a kill move for you.

R.O.B is floaty. If he bans FD and just uses platforms to prepare everything, Falco's gonna have a difficult time. R.O.B also doesn't have many bad stage I'm particularly aware of, but has many that will benefit him greatly in this MU.
It's true that ROB has stage advantage, but we're used to that anyway and it doesn't stop us from being in S tier. Platforms are (imo) an advantage to Falco, I think Falco just has godlike platform pressure with lasers and aerials, and a laserlock if he knocks you off (or at least guarenteed fsmash)

Your reactions aren't godlike, and R.O.B's ftilt and jab are faster than you give credit for, his ftilt is also longer than you give credit for. If you can react to a R.O.B's ftilt quick enough to beat it with jab, I'll give you a cookie.
It's true that ROBs ftilt and jab are quite fast, but in the situation that he dashes at us, he still has to stop his dash n stuff. We will be in an advantage in terms of speed, especially with jab. He has the choice of range (ftilt) or speed (jab), we have both in 1 jab.

The fact of the matter is, in this MU R.O.B will almost always know what the Falco is doing, whether it's safe at the time or not, and this gives him a huge advantage in the overall game. R.O.B's forcing Falco to play a particular way and that's never a good thing.
I disagree, one of the strengths falco has in this MU is limiting ROBs options. I think you are just being limited by the player, which has no room in a mu discussion

Yeah, killing him with dtilt and spotdodge uptilt is a COOL IDEA BRO. What a high percentage he is on! Spotdodge uptilt? How EASILY punished!
Yeah, because or spotdodge is like 90% immunity. Lol, there are like 1-2 frames on which you can hit him on the end, aka you're dead.
ROB being floaty gives us earlier upwards kills btw, and dtilt and utilt are hardly DI-able iirc

Knowing set-ups and follow-ups isn't everything Xonar. If you're moving to avoid the danger zones, you're moving in to his prediction zones, or areas he's expecting you to recover to, and therefore he's waiting on it.
Knowing what your opponent is doing doesn't always make it punishable.

R.O.B's dsmash DOES have sucky kill potential, why do you think they use it so often for damage? -.-
Well it is their best close up move against falco imo

Mix-ups, SHOULD be included in MU discussions. The more options one has to defeat their enemy, the easier it is. What shouldn't be included is mindgames, mix ups can be used for this, but it isn't the main purpose of it. If Falco can't guess right, he's not gonna be beating some of R.O.B's best options. I probably could phrase this better, but I hope you get my perspective here. The more options a character has the harder it is to fight. The fact the general consensus here is that Falco has to play second gives R.O.B a slight edge.
---
Projectiles don't limit R.O.B's options THAT well. And if they aren't being used for camping/damage here, Falco has to find another way to get that percent lead. If Falco begins by camping to get a percent lead, he's going to eat laser and be followed up on. And if he doesn't you're suggesting he's either approaching, or just playing it safe waiting for a reflector opportunity. In any case, R.O.B has something that counters this, and is much more easily reacted to by the R.O.B than anything Falco can react to by the R.O.B. Another edge R.O.B has.

Phantasm doesn't work EXTREMELY well as an anti-approach here either, it's much easier reacted to and/or interrupted than some of R.O.B's options.

The reason I talk about platforms, is because if there are platforms, R.O.B can use this to jump higher, and charge Gyro's if he has a decent percentage opportunity. I don't think R.O.B should ever be standing on the platform for any long period of time to be knocked off and laserlocked, in which case I will be the "Butz teh hyest form of teh metagamez" scenario, and say: "WELL TECH IT".

Well this is what Dsmash is for. It'll get your rolls AND spotdodges.

It's not always punishable when you're predictable, no. However in the case of R.O.B he'll literally be WAITING for these recoveries. Hence why I said they can be punished. Now if the R.O.B covers your most used options and isn't thinking ahead enough to cover where you WILL go to avoid the worst, then this R.O.B is pretty meh.

Heyo.

The other thing is, once R.O.B's able to apply pressure and gets a hit in, he'll be getting more damage from his follow-ups than the Falco will. (Minus whatever chain grabs we have here) Whereas the R.O.B can easily use some of his disjointed and speedy aerials to just force you to back off.

Basically, R.O.B will capitalize far better than the Falco will, in most situations.

P.S. We write too much.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Mix-ups, SHOULD be included in MU discussions. The more options one has to defeat their enemy, the easier it is. What shouldn't be included is mindgames, mix ups can be used for this, but it isn't the main purpose of it. If Falco can't guess right, he's not gonna be beating some of R.O.B's best options. I probably could phrase this better, but I hope you get my perspective here. The more options a character has the harder it is to fight. The fact the general consensus here is that Falco has to play second gives R.O.B a slight edge.
If you can mixup doesnt mean you can mixup well enough to make it worthwhile. Mixups are personal.


Projectiles don't limit R.O.B's options THAT well. And if they aren't being used for camping/damage here, Falco has to find another way to get that percent lead. If Falco begins by camping to get a percent lead, he's going to eat laser and be followed up on. And if he doesn't you're suggesting he's either approaching, or just playing it safe waiting for a reflector opportunity. In any case, R.O.B has something that counters this, and is much more easily reacted to by the R.O.B than anything Falco can react to by the R.O.B. Another edge R.O.B has.
Lasers for damage, yeah bro I digg that 3% mayne. Why does Falco eat a laser if he begins by camping? is that like guarenteed?


Phantasm doesn't work EXTREMELY well as an anti-approach here either, it's much easier reacted to and/or interrupted than some of R.O.B's options.
... not even going to respond to this


The reason I talk about platforms, is because if there are platforms, R.O.B can use this to jump higher, and charge Gyro's if he has a decent percentage opportunity. I don't think R.O.B should ever be standing on the platform for any long period of time to be knocked off and laserlocked, in which case I will be the "Butz teh hyest form of teh metagamez" scenario, and say: "WELL TECH IT".
True, still gyro aint all that nice in this mu imo

Well this is what Dsmash is for. It'll get your rolls AND spotdodges.
Get your rolls behind rob? Yeah, because that's obviously one of your best options as falco. How will he kill anyways

It's not always punishable when you're predictable, no. However in the case of R.O.B he'll literally be WAITING for these recoveries. Hence why I said they can be punished. Now if the R.O.B covers your most used options and isn't thinking ahead enough to cover where you WILL go to avoid the worst, then this R.O.B is pretty meh.
Rob has a good gimping game, he will have problems with getting falco offstage though. Platforms also help with mixing phantasm height when recovering.
Heyo.

Listen what I saaaay--ooooo

edit:
lol spamming the snake mu thread with rob **** xd

 

[swordsaint]

LOL. I don't even know how we started talking about R.O.B... It just sorta happened.

The phantasm does work. Though it's not enough to sway the matchup, hence my exaggeration on "extremely". Anywho, the Gyro is mostly for followups and covering our offstage options. It can be quite the tool to create a danger zone.

I think R.O.B's laser is fast enough to hit a Falco that tries to SHDL. (Which is what I thought I was saying clear enough. lol)

And for kills, Nair. It's really sweet for ****** that offstage phantasm. A Falco who recovers to a platform might even eat an upsmash. Nair for the higher platforms.

TL;DR for those who just cbf.

I think R.O.B has enough options and the ability to capitalize better than Falco.

Anyway, should probably stop about this R.O.B discussion lol. I didn't realise and mistakenly thought I'd contribute. I'll probably copy it all down though for when we get to him lol.

I still believe that it's 60/40 R.O.B, but for the sake of compromise, I'd fall to 55/45 R.O.B. Still strongly believe 6/4 though...

***SNAKE***
I still reckon 55-45 Falco. lol

To bed I go!

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

haha bed, it's 1845 here : D

Why try to SHDL anyway, rob doesnt often take the air in his approach from to far away, so just SHL. SHL I found is better against rob as it gives you time to reflector if needed

Killing with nair? If you don't follow rob up, you won't get hit with nair, not following rob in the air really made the MU 1000000x easier for me.
As for going offstage, it will happen reaaally rarely.

60/40 for falco imo

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Looks like we agreed that the ROB matchup is either 60-40 ROB or 60-40 Falco.

Good job guys.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I never agreed on 6040 for rob, lol he cant kill us for ****

 

[Karcist]

I never agreed on 6040 for rob, lol he cant kill us for ****

Agreed. As a ROB main, as hard it might be for a Falco to land a kill on ROB. It's just as hard or harder for a ROB to land a kill on Falco. Falco is one of my harder match ups, I think its 60-40 Falco.

 

[Teran]

I'm not sure ROB has a lot of difficulty gimping Falco.

Then again a lot of characters don't.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ever saw dehf get gimped? no

because he just never ends up offstage in a gimpable position, and if he does he mixes up his recovery well enough to not get gimped

Falco having bad recovery is SO '09, this is the year of killing problems

 

[Teran]

I don't watch Brawl vids, they're incredibly boring.

Falco doesn't have a bad recovery, he just has an annoyingly precise one, messing with that precision can easily lead to a gimp. You need to have all your bases covered. Just because you shouldn't be getting knocked offstage, doesn't mean you shouldn't factor in the chance.

Arguably you shouldn't be getting grabbed, or hit, but this isn't theory bros, this is just plain old Smash Bros with people who make mistakes and misjudge things. It's very likely that you could get knocked offstage in an unfavourable position, maybe because you didn't tech the windmill properly on PS1 for example. If you don't factor in these possibilities, you're gonna get all shook up during a match when stuff like this happens. Just sayin'

If you fail to prepare then prepare to fail.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I agree

10charepicness

 

[King Funk]

Projectiles don't limit R.O.B's options THAT well. And if they aren't being used for camping/damage here, Falco has to find another way to get that percent lead. If Falco begins by camping to get a percent lead, he's going to eat laser and be followed up on. And if he doesn't you're suggesting he's either approaching, or just playing it safe waiting for a reflector opportunity. In any case, R.O.B has something that counters this, and is much more easily reacted to by the R.O.B than anything Falco can react to by the R.O.B. Another edge R.O.B has.

Phantasm doesn't work EXTREMELY well as an anti-approach here either, it's much easier reacted to and/or interrupted than some of R.O.B's options.

I have to disagree with you on these points. Falco has pretty much been designed to camp the camper. Falco is able to use laser and reflector at the same time: SHL/SHDL+ shine. Simply spam SHL/SHDL, and whenever you see ROB's laser/gyro animation coming, use the reflector as you land on the ground. This tactic which always worked for me in my oh so many matches vs my ROB main partner, also works on Pit, Toon Link, etc.

Also, a Falco player can use effectively the phantasm against ROB. Simply make sure you space it well, and don't make it too obvious. Try to mix it up with other options (grab the ledge ; do an Ozz-style awesome firebird lolzjk). It's a cat and mouse fight. ROB's close range options are much better than Falco's and can really pack up a lot of % very quickly. As long as you manage to keep a distance against ROB, you'll be winning in the damage department.

Honestly the matchup is 50-50 for me.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I could see it anywhere from 50-50 to 60-40 (ROB) personally. Falco can really irritate ROB, but ROB can irritate Falco just as much. They both really bug each other... It's just that ROB's gimp game is something that Falco can have a hard time with so that's what would lead me to think it's ROB's advantage at least a little.

At the same time though, I don't find ROB to be as hard as G&W or Marth and I definitely feel like those are 60-40 their favor... so maybe ROB is more like 50-50 or 55-45 (ROB).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Robs agree with me, falco wins the mu

visit robs boards for proof D: