Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Kokomaniac]

It's a damn shame I'm not better than you, and I don't face many diddys, but I think staying constantly airborne is key especially when approaching, slipping on bananas sucks. Pick stages like bf with platforms maybe?

 

[Susi]

Yes, airborne but close to ground.

I posted like everything that came to mind in the vs Diddy -thread! Mid-High level of playing the MU in my opinion...

 

[PK Jibaku]

Yeah I lost. :I I'll need to practice more haha! Thanks for the info guys.

 

[Nido]

I just thought of this, but can fast characters buffered dash pivot grab infinite Ness on ice? O_o

 

[Kokomaniac]

Wouldn't they have to be ridiculously fast for that to even be possible?

 

[Kokomaniac]

What stage do I take campy projectile characters to

 

[Nido]

Which ones specifically?
Don't take Falco to FD and take him to Lylat is the one the comes to mind first

 

[Jamwa]

Which ones specifically?
Don't take Falco to FD and take him to Lylat is the one the comes to mind first

why not FD :s Falco players usually ban FD haha
platforms gives falco somewhere to mix up his recovery, so SV is probs the worst. unless you feel comfortable gimping falco and you can use the platform to your advantage, but i cant see how).
a big map is good because you can just pull out PSI magnet whenever and falco wont be able to punish you or camp as much. bigger map also means he's less likely to finish a chaingrab with a spike off the ledge if you do not know how to SDI.
BF = no FH PKF, but if the falco doesnt know how to play on BF then it can be good for you (fairing someones shield on a platform can lead into a jab lock > fsmash).
Lylat is a good CP and so is PS1. I prefer PS1 because while Lylat is worse for falco, it is still bad for Ness (this is play-style dependent though), you can also camp on PS1 during certain transformations. YI is the worst easily never go there

If rainbow ride is legal that is the best stage for any campy character.

 

[Nido]

I thought FD was the insta-go-to for him :/

 

[Jamwa]

I thought FD was the insta-go-to for him :/

i think it is against any character excluding lucas ness and maybe others that can outcamp flaco

 

[Kokomaniac]

So how many angles does PKT2 have? I feel like it only has 8 angles, even though sometimes I notice that I can shoot him straight up and there's a slight variation in the angle sometimes, sometimes left or sometimes right, but overall I don't think it has too many angular options, so if you get into a certain situation it's really difficult or impossible to hit yourself straight to the edge. I should probably try it out for my self in a test game but I just wanted to know if anyone else noticed this or can articulate my question better than I can.

 

[yoshi8984]

Too many to count. PKT2 has a lot of angles, and note that the angle Ness is sent depend on where the PKT hits Ness, not necessarily the angle of the PKT.

 

[Tikao]

hmm maybe 360? ... but it's difficult to hit yourself with 360 different positions ... maybe 8 of them are common , because of the control of pkt1 , but there should be more than 8 ... a lot more , don't think you can count them unless it has 360 (thats not counting , but you know what i mean)

 

[Kokomaniac]

I just wish it was easier to send myself exactly where I want to go, I swear sometimes I hit myself in the exact same place twice in a row but I get sent in two slightly different direction, I'm normally very good at hitting myself where I want to be hit on his PKT2 but sometimes I don't even know what happens

 

[Jamwa]

theres some angles you can remember and theres some you can make up
e.g. the fastest you can PKT2 in the air will send you in an upwards 45 degree angle,
or you can hit yourself directly up by aiming straight down for a little bit then going back up.
then theres wierd stuff where you can send PKT1 (with lucas) on 45 degree angle down and away, then down and towards lucas and lucas will fall into the PKT and hit himself back up straight at the ledge. not sure if it works with Ness
you get better as you play

also remember falling speed affects where you PKT2 yourself, even though it might appear to be the same spot

 

[Kokomaniac]

I knew about the first two things, but I didn't know that thing about Lucas and if I can envision what you're talking about I'll test it out for myself on Ness, thanks

 

[Flame Hyenard]

I remember this one time where I did a PKT1 on the ground and struck myself as it went downward to the right. But instead of being sent into the direction of the PKT1, I was actually sent to the left ! This shows the direction PKT2 really depends on where you hit Ness with PKT1.

Another thing is that if you do a PKT1 RIGHT before you walk off a ledge, Ness will hover horizontally a little bit (like how Mario can hover horizontally when he does the Cape right before walking off a ledge) which can make tricky PKT2 gimmicks and things like that. I don't recommend it, but it's worth a try.

 

[Tikao]

yeah , thats his sliding pk-thunder ... you can also cancel his pk-fire by running of the ledge , so he'll shout pk-fire , but nothing happens ... also sliding psi-magnet xD ... and the best at in the game "sliding pk-flash" or (how i call it) sliding pk-stock-cancel ... but the're not very usefull ... Lucas' sliding pk-thunder can be usefull in very rare situations as far as i know ... but you can easily gimp yourself instead of the enemy with sliding pk-thunder xD ...

 

[Flame Hyenard]

I knew about the PK Fire cancel. I do it whenever I manage to get an opponent's stock =p

Oh boy, Lucas's PKT1 slide, I remember winning a match using this to KO my opponent and myself XD

 

[Nido]

That reminds me of when I was playing a Wolf and they UpB'd downward while a stock up as I was trying to recover and won

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Now THAT'S a bold move ! Risky things like that are rare to witness !

 

[Nido]

It was pretty hilarious when it happened but the funnier thing is that's all Wolf's UpB is good for and I was 6-0 up so it wasn't too big of a deal.

 

[Kokomaniac]

Or when toon link shoots an arrow and perfectly snipes the head of PKT the moment you try to recover

 

[Tikao]

or you space your pkt1 and clash with the pkt1 of a other Ness/Lucas , who tried to recover ... or both of you recover , your pkt2 clashes , and both of you die xD ... and both of you have only one stock left ... or somebody techs your fully charged pk-flash at 143% and survives ... there are so many ways of dying or killing with/against Ness in some flashy ways

 

[Flame Hyenard]

I once tried to tech a fully charged PK Flash as Ganondorf (PK Jibaku can tell us about it). I did hit the platform, but I didn't tech it. :/

In relations to clashing PKT1 with another one : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFoWVa2uOA0#t=7m25s

And I don't know if we're going off-topic, considering this is the "Question and Answers" threed and not the "Social" one. ^^;

 

[Kokomaniac]

In which ways do you guys use psi magnet besides absorbing things? Are there any other practical applications for it?

 

[Screk]

I only magnet if I know I can absorb it with out letting the other player following up and giving me the damage back or even more damage. I think it's situational thing in which you feel like you can get away with it with out much risk involved.

 

[Jamwa]

Air stalling is great, it even pushes people back as it ends so its tricky to punish even if they know you're going to do it.
its good for reversing your direction in the air by b-reversing.
you can also wavebounce it like snake does.
its just a mix up and i would only use it once a game or so, not the best option but can trick people

 

[Tikao]

Air stalling is great, it even pushes people back as it ends so its tricky to punish even if they know you're going to do it.
its good for reversing your direction in the air by b-reversing.
you can also wavebounce it like snake does.
its just a mix up and i would only use it once a game or so, not the best option but can trick people

can only quote that , couldn't say something other , it's good like that ^^
Love dat air-stalling

 

[Jamwa]

forgot one thing, in doubles you can save your partner by cancelling all knockback momentum with Psi magnet, so even if they get smashed at 999%, if you time it right and release Psi Magnet as they pass you, they will go into the falling animation as if they have been footstalled

its pretty hard to setup though and in doubles there'd be like 10 other things that you should be doing first

 

[Tikao]

it's just luck , when this happens ... but funny luck xD ... and you can just gimp Snake's c4-recovery with that

 

[yoshi8984]

I remember with the PSI magnet when I was doing 2 vs 2 friendlies I unintentionally saved my partner from dying (was more meant to be a Magnet air stall ) and he lived to 256% xD

But yeah, the magnet can also help you stall in the air and it's a nice mix-up.

 

[Kokomaniac]

Thanks I've used it before off stage to stall a little bit and throw off my opponent while trying to recover safely, but these are pretty awesome ideas I didn't know about before

 

[Kokomaniac]

So my friend (he's Marth) and I are doing a best of 69, and he's up on me 10-5 (I was just getting warmed up when he had to leave though ). I started playing a LOT better right before he had to leave, starting to fastfall more of my stuff as well as make some better decisions, but I'm having a lot of trouble beating his stupid smashes and fair. My main problem is that sometimes he's really good at keeping me off the edge and I have to pk thunder recover from far away sometimes several times in one edgeguarding "session", for lack of a better word. I notice that when I watch pro Ness, they almost NEVER have to recover using pk thunder. Any tips for getting back to the stage less dangerously? I had tried covering my recovery with a pk fire angled down to the egde of the stage so that he wouldn't be able to react right away, but it doesn't seem to be good enough

 

[PK Jibaku]

So my friend (he's Marth) and I are doing a best of 69, and he's up on me 10-5 (I was just getting warmed up when he had to leave though ). I started playing a LOT better right before he had to leave, starting to fastfall more of my stuff as well as make some better decisions, but I'm having a lot of trouble beating his stupid smashes and fair. My main problem is that sometimes he's really good at keeping me off the edge and I have to pk thunder recover from far away sometimes several times in one edgeguarding "session", for lack of a better word. I notice that when I watch pro Ness, they almost NEVER have to recover using pk thunder. Any tips for getting back to the stage less dangerously? I had tried covering my recovery with a pk fire angled down to the egde of the stage so that he wouldn't be able to react right away, but it doesn't seem to be good enough

How about we both play and I can give you tips.

 

[Luco]

The PKT sending you in the opposite direction to where you think you'd go has something to do with angles and hitboxes. I enjoy doing that one myself. The name for the other one you guys are thinking of is 'thundersliding' and Ness' one is interesting. I prefer Lucas' because it can surprise the opponent so well.

Crazy instances would be like this one time recently where my brother and I were on delfino. He was below the ledge and had used his second jump. He used PKT to recover and I went down to try and magnet it, but pressed the control stick too far in one direction and instead of turning around to PSI magnet, I used PK fire. By this time the bolt was below my brother so a magnet might not have hit anyway. But oh man, the moment when my PK fire burst on his PKT1 and he died and I recovered and... oh man that was just so good! <3

On the subject of recovery, getting back often requires mix-ups and top players can more or less make PKT1 as safe as any other recovery move. I think the biggest part is learning how not to let yourself get put in bad positions. It's just about skill and practice, I guess. I know I have a while to go before I don't have to worry about being put in a bad position off-stage as Ness...

 

[Tikao]

well , I'm just rarely in a very bad position were i can get easily gimped , and I'm not very good too , so it's not like you have to be a pro player to not get gimped with ness , it's just practise with ness ... and after maining Ness for like 2,5 years , you are maybe not as good as others playing a char for 2,5 years , but you know ness and that's what you need to avoid those situations ... but that depends on the enemy ... like against marf and lucas , you have to recover in a diffrent way ... so it's not only char-knowledge , it's also MU-knowledge ... and you can be as good as you want , you'll get gimped against some chars , because it's not like " i have to do that and that , and i'll recover safe" ... it's mix-up based ... hope everyone can understand what i wanna tell by that xD

 

[yoshi8984]

To mix-up my recovery, sometimes I PKT2 (while still having my double jump) in case I get hit out of it, then I can use my Double Jump to recover for real.
Magnet stalling is also an option.

 

[Luco]

To mix-up my recovery, sometimes I PKT2 (while still having my double jump) in case I get hit out of it, then I can use my Double Jump to recover for real.
Magnet stalling is also an option.

Ahhh I wasn't sure whether you could use DJ after being hit out of PKT if you hadn't already used DJ. I'll try that. :D

Also, I occasionallyt magnet stall just above the opponent so that if they try to predict my landing and Fsmash it, they miss.

 

[yoshi8984]

You need to have Tap Jump off though.