Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Nido]

It's not very good but against some characters it *****, like vs D3 it can mind game so hard

 

[Kokomaniac]

Yeah it's good for keeping people on their toes as long as you ensure you won't get punished at least too hard

 

[PK Jibaku]

FOW uses PK Flash on G&W's recovery move... It's really cool. :3

 

[Luco]

An old video of me that shows why PK flash is amazing: ( )

This is also done on his next stock

When I did that, everybody watching went insane. :D

 

[PK Jibaku]

I bet they were like "WOAH HOOO OMG SO COOL! WTF?" XDDD

That was awesome Luco!

 

[Luco]

I bet they were like "WOAH HOOO OMG SO COOL! WTF?" XDDD

That was awesome Luco!

They went something along the lines of, "AAAAAAAHH!!"

I felt so awesome in that moment.

 

[PK Jibaku]

They went something along the lines of, "AAAAAAAHH!!"

I felt so awesome in that moment.

I would have felt awesome too. It sucks that you lost though. :/

 

[Luco]

I would have felt awesome too. It sucks that you lost though. :/

Only that game, and it was close even though he destroyed me on that second match.

I won the set. ^_^

 

[PK Jibaku]

Only that game, and it was close even though he destroyed me on that second match.

I won the set. ^_^

That's great! Your Lucus is amazing too.

 

[Luco]

That's an old Lucas. My current Ness/Lucas are a lot better... I still have a way to go but i'm confident in my abilities thus far. I wish there was a tournament around here haha, I do need to see where i'm at through a bigger picture.

 

[Tikao]

pk-flash can be good against fatties like bowser (hehehe)
but , it was very dumb of him to down-b into this pk-flash xD

at the second he jumped in it xD , he could just drop from the edge and then recover , instead of jumping in it

at the third , he could airdodge , instead of a side-b ... why did he do that ... he would have reached the edge with his up-b xD

but it's more like a mixup , it makes some people afraid , so they do mistakes ... and you readed this mistakes , good job

also , if you are on the ground , and the enemy is above you , you can just hit with an uncharged pk-flash , it doesn't kill and does 10%? 11%? ... around 10% i think , if you use this as a mixup , he won't read that ... because of the low knockback , it can be a combo-starter against some fatties like bowser xD ... but the use of this is more like , when they see it (it's not that slow , but not fast) , they airdodge and when the airdodge ends , you can just start your combo too ... also good at fatties like bowser , at low% , you can start and string some utilts , so so , it's damage

but only as a mixup , if you overuse it , they'll just punish you for that

 

[Kokomaniac]

That was the kind of thing I was thinking of as well, the uncharged pk flash above your head

 

[Luco]

pk-flash can be good against fatties like bowser (hehehe)
but , it was very dumb of him to down-b into this pk-flash xD

at the second he jumped in it xD , he could just drop from the edge and then recover , instead of jumping in it

at the third , he could airdodge , instead of a side-b ... why did he do that ... he would have reached the edge with his up-b xD

but it's more like a mixup , it makes some people afraid , so they do mistakes ... and you readed this mistakes , good job

also , if you are on the ground , and the enemy is above you , you can just hit with an uncharged pk-flash , it doesn't kill and does 10%? 11%? ... around 10% i think , if you use this as a mixup , he won't read that ... because of the low knockback , it can be a combo-starter against some fatties like bowser xD ... but the use of this is more like , when they see it (it's not that slow , but not fast) , they airdodge and when the airdodge ends , you can just start your combo too ... also good at fatties like bowser , at low% , you can start and string some utilts , so so , it's damage

but only as a mixup , if you overuse it , they'll just punish you for that

Yea, though you have to consider that Bowser's down-B to the ledge is one of his safest recoveries. It makes sense that he'd do it and it's incredibly hard to punish. I just got lucky, is all. The other two were bad decisions on his part but he wasn't having the best day in terms of play and as you can see he SDed quite a lot. I don't blame him. But dre in general is a really nice guy, especially when you get to know him. =)

 

[Tikao]

no , don't mean it like " you're only lucky , and dre sucks" ... it was more like , you made him afraid with pk-flash and readed this , without of this , he may wouldn't be hit at any of this 3 pk-flash's ... was more like a explanation that pk-flash can be usefull for mindgames :3

 

[Luco]

no , don't mean it like " you're only lucky , and dre sucks" ... it was more like , you made him afraid with pk-flash and readed this , without of this , he may wouldn't be hit at any of this 3 pk-flash's ... was more like a explanation that pk-flash can be usefull for mindgames :3

Haha, don't worry, I get ya. Ness and Lucas' Neutral B's can be rather scary to throw out there, I remember scoot saying after one of our matches that he'd never been so scared of PK freeze in his life. :D

I got Ryuka with one just a moment ago too.

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Nice PK Flash kills, though those matches with Ness needed more Yo-Yos I think. Pretty sure it'd have been more useful than just rolling around D:

(even though I know this is a 7 months old match, I can't help but point that out)

 

[yoshi8984]

An uncharged PK Flash is also nice where it's too risky to trade hits with someone else's D-air (like Link, Lucario, etc.) and U-air wouldn't do much. XP

 

[Luco]

Nice PK Flash kills, though those matches with Ness needed more Yo-Yos I think. Pretty sure it'd have been more useful than just rolling around D:

(even though I know this is a 7 months old match, I can't help but point that out)

I know, I fixed my rolling habits a long time ago. :3

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Das ist gut ! (y)

 

[Luco]

What does vunderbar mean again? In the context 'Das ist vunderbar'?

 

[Mad Duck]

What does vunderbar mean again? In the context 'Das ist vunderbar'?

wunderbar = wonderful IIRC

 

[Luco]

Thought it was something like that. Awesome. :D

 

[Tikao]

Heißt das , wir können hier jetzt deutsch reden? ... Das packt ihr sowieso in den Google Übersetzter und dann kriegt ihr eine Brei-Übersetzung : D
ok , I'll talk english D: ... german everywhere xD

 

[Nido]

ihr

I can't take this word seriously at all

 

[Luco]

Seeing as the MU thread is dead and so is the panel thread, if you were part of the panel, or even just out of curiosity, what Ness MUs would you change? :3

 

[Nido]

0:100
Marth:Ness
Our favour

 

[Luco]

Or even better, what do you think our MUs would look like without GR issues?

 

[Nido]

+4: the entire cast except ness
-4: Ness

 

[Tikao]

Seeing as the MU thread is dead and so is the panel thread, if you were part of the panel, or even just out of curiosity, what Ness MUs would you change? :3

Ness-Lucas -> 0
Ness-Pika -> 1
Ness-Olimar -> -1
Ness-Peach -> -1

Not sure list

Ness-Ike -1/0
Ness-Diddy -1/0 (i love this MU , could be the reason for that xD)
Ness-ROB -1/-2 (more like -1 , like in the current MU , but not 100% sure)
Ness-Marf -3/-4 (both a false xD , to hard for a -3 , to easy for a -4 ... -3,5 )
Ness-MK -2/-1 (the GR put's you in a bad position offstage , but except for that , this MU isn't that bad)
also , Falco and D³ are like the same for me ... both should be -3 or both -2 ... -2,5 xD

 

[Nido]

Ness-Lucas -> 0
Ness-Pika -> 1
Ness-Olimar -> -1
Ness-Peach -> -1

Not sure list

Ness-Ike -1/0
Ness-Diddy -1/0 (i love this MU , could be the reason for that xD)
Ness-ROB -1/-2 (more like -1 , like in the current MU , but not 100% sure)
Ness-Marf -3/-4 (both a false xD , to hard for a -3 , to easy for a -4 ... -3,5 )
Ness-MK -2/-1 (the GR put's you in a bad position offstage , but except for that , this MU isn't that bad)
also , Falco and D³ are like the same for me ... both should be -3 or both -2 ... -2,5 xD

Oli if anything is 0/1 we have a spinning nair of doom that sends pikmin away faster than Fox News scares away intelligence
Other than that I don't have too many problems with your list

 

[Kokomaniac]

Oli if anything is 0/1 we have a spinning nair of doom that sends pikmin away faster than Fox News scares away intelligence
Other than that I don't have too many problems with your list

I'm going to be using that Fox News line from now on, thank you for the laughs.

I really really really really really hate olimar

 

[Nido]

Even Australia knows how stupid Fox News is

 

[Tikao]

yeah , the Ness-Oli MU is awesome , but I'm feeling like it's a little bit in Olimars advantage ... at first , he was on the "not sure list" , but i changed it , because the regular list was too small xD ... yeah could also be a even MU , but in some little way , it's in olimars advantage

 

[Nido]

MK:Ness is a definite -1 too
Fair just ***** his everything and PKT11 is indestructible when he's in the air so it is an AMAZING mind game and damage racker

 

[Luco]

Ness-Lucas -> 0
Ness-Pika -> 1
Ness-Olimar -> -1
Ness-Peach -> -1

Not sure list

Ness-Ike -1/0
Ness-Diddy -1/0 (i love this MU , could be the reason for that xD)
Ness-ROB -1/-2 (more like -1 , like in the current MU , but not 100% sure)
Ness-Marf -3/-4 (both a false xD , to hard for a -3 , to easy for a -4 ... -3,5 )
Ness-MK -2/-1 (the GR put's you in a bad position offstage , but except for that , this MU isn't that bad)
also , Falco and D³ are like the same for me ... both should be -3 or both -2 ... -2,5 xD

[COLLAPSE="thoughts on those changes from a random ness "]Ness oli is definitely a 0. Look at it logically: He can't camp all day against us because of PK fire which creates a wall of safety.

In the air we destroy him.

Offstage we both destroy the other.

They can all be looked in to but i'm reasonably certain this is 0. Possibly 0.5 oli's favour (because he does win on the ground keeping us out a little) but nothing to really warrant a -1.

Peach I have no idea about.

R.O.B. is definitely either a -1 or 0, depending on who you ask. I had a lot of trouble with this MU at first but with correct spacing, R.O.B. - Ness isn't actually that bad. I was talking to Yink about it, she says it's a 0 and she's faced chibo. Shaky says -1 and while I haven't seen him verse R.O.B., i'm sure it's happened at some point.

I don't think this MU should go past -1 if top nesses say it's not that bad.

I explained Marth in on of my last posts, check it out. Marth isn't hideous and we can harass him off-stage, as well as playing bait and punish, knowing that many marths just wanna go for the grab.

Ness MK most Nesses (and a decent amount of MKs too) say is -1, so no problem with that.

I don't have any exp. with the pika MU but in my totally theory-crafting opinion, this is a 0... he has to watch 2 of his specials around us, another special is easily punishable. i don't know how we do against him generally though (on-stage, off-stage, in the air) but from the few matches i've had with pikas, Fair seems to do well and Nair is a fine OoS option like in any other MU. What's your reasoning?

The rest I have absolutely no idea about. :o[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Kokomaniac]

I hate peach too... God I hate so many characters

 

[Nido]

Pika is +1
If they use thunder more than twice they must be like ESAM level because we heal so much and it can be predicted and tanking one offstage > tech the stage can be a free recovery.
Our Fair is just too good, Pika can't speed past the magic sparkles of doom very well.
His UpB is spiked so hard if he's far offstage because of Pika's retardedly huge hurtboxes during it

 

[Luco]

Pika is +1
If they use thunder more than twice they must be like ESAM level because we heal so much and it can be predicted and tanking one offstage > tech the stage can be a free recovery.
Our Fair is just too good, Pika can't speed past the magic sparkles of doom very well.

Dunno, IMO pika can deal with us off-stage rather efficiently. :/

 

[Luco]

Nah it'd be too hard to spike his upB in most cases, i'd consider that to be an outlier.

Also, Falco's not that bad. It's like, after the whole CG thing it's a -1.

Whoops, sorry about the double post.

D3 is hard, we have to get him offstage to harass him, like Marth. He out-ranges us on the ground, the GR shenanigans are sucky, etc etc.

If there were no CGs on Ness this MU would probably be a -2 though.

THAT SAID I am a very optimistic ness and i've been talking to Yink about these a LOT lately. Yink hasn't been around for some time and there have been meta-game changes with some characters (such as Lucas!)

 

[Tikao]

ROB could only be a -2 for me , because i realy hate this MU xD ... thats why i said , it's more lika a -1 MU

yeah , Ness-Oli -1 is wrong ... maybe a -0,5 ... we need those half stepped MUs xD

Peach isn't that bad , floating cancel stuff , peach and ness are great in the air , her down-b isn't that good against us , if we catch it , we can do some double jump cancled stuff
Peach has the worst airdodge in the game , making pkt1 jugling awesome against her , also offstage , her regular jumps are realy short , her up-b isn't that long either , so , compaired with her ****ty airdodge , pkt1 can also be good at gimping ... she can't flow throuh pkt1 xD ... but she can gimp us with his down-b , just cut the length of our pkt2 in half ... so we must recover safe
... why should this be a -2? -1 for me

we just said enough about marf xD

and now pika (hehe)
we can force pika to approach , his neutral-b can just simply heal us , it's like useless in most situations
also , pika usually approaches with his neutral-b , but against GaW , Ness and Lucas , it's just bad ... so we can simply stay in some fairs , what will pika do? short ranged attacks , projektile , which can heal us (and that's not realy hard) ... also , some of pika's approaches are just based of air-dodging behind the opponent , but ness can punish that , with some shorthop double aireal stuff (or how it was called ) offstage , , if we're above pika , his down-b is like useless , we can simply heal us , pika has like one of the shortest amount of time , he has invisble frames on the edge , so edghogging is harder , he can only cut our pkt2 in half , if he hits with an neutral-b , but only in an 45° angle under pika , we shouldn't just recover from there ... it must be realy lucky to spike pika out of his up-b ... if the pika does it rght , he just shouldn't be gimped by us (like we shouldn't be gimped by pika )