Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Luco]

Yeah, I often get carried away with having fun, because tournament winnings = $ My mind is set to win that $, but I end up just playing and losing. Thus, it causes me to really lose my self thought. These problems are the worst, because it's something that the person themselves has to deal with. It really sucks, but once you try and focus on what's really important, you'll learn and have fun at the same time with no negatives in the end (cliche I know).

Usually when you lose the first match, you become demoralized and you have to get over that wall if you want to make a comeback. CP-ing correctly and winning the second time helps a lot. You have to know your strengths and weaknesses and remember, as Shaya once (roughly) said: Everything in this game is punishable. Attacks, grabs, shielding... there's a punish for all of it. Capitalize on punishes (spacing is good as well), play smart, you'll win. This extends to everyone. It's harder as a Low/Low mid tier but it can still be done.

 

[Susi]

GW isnt as hard as he was earlier in the metagame. Try not to fall into his stupid stuff like bairs landing hitbox or stupid gimps, combos and such. GW has powerful smashes but he actually has hard time killing you if you just watch out for them. Not committing so much and actually watching what he does helps a lot in this MU. You can beat almost any of his attacks straight out if you see them coming.

 

[Kokomaniac]

GW isnt as hard as he was earlier in the metagame. Try not to fall into his stupid stuff like bairs landing hitbox or stupid gimps, combos and such. GW has powerful smashes but he actually has hard time killing you if you just watch out for them. Not committing so much and actually watching what he does helps a lot in this MU. You can beat almost any of his attacks straight out if you see them coming.

Should I play really defensive then? I don't think I was really playing all that conservatively when I was fighting him most of the time, sometimes I'd back off and try to land a few PK fires knowing that if I played it safe, it would be hard for him to punish it, but I still couldn't really deal with him in the end. It got to the point where there were two seconds left in the match (the time limit was at 6 for some reason) and he killed me with a fair (i think?) That was heartbreaking.

 

[Susi]

Not maybe really defensive. Just not aggressive. Stay pretty close and try to punish his obvious stuff. Yes fair is his best killmove if you can avoid his smashes till 130-150%. PK Fire is pretty good but dont let him bucket them, its not worth it. You can beat out his approaches well if you can keep your shield high and stay at or close to ground.

This sounds like a cliche but stay patient and find openings. GW is the kind of char it really works on. If you have a lead, keep calm. If he has the lead, keep him afraid.

 

[Kokomaniac]

Thanks for the tips, I'll definitely try to do that next G&W I face.

 

[yoshi8984]

What stages should we ban and counterpick against a Fox and a Snake?
I have a feeling Yoshi's Island should be banned, but it might change for these MUs. =P

 

[Kokomaniac]

I personally hate yoshi's island so I would personally ban it, and I think I would avoid battle field as the c4 is really annoying on platforms

I dunno I'm not too experienced or knowledgable with with picks or bans just my .02, don't take it too heavily

 

[Luco]

I get the feeling Brinstar would be great for both because you could make them come to you instead of the other way around. Fox can't spam lasers if you're behind stuff or on platforms or on the ledge.... I just mean, against both there's just so much you can do to avoid their projectiles. Snake would probably end up hurting himself more than he's hurt you on Brinstar.

 

[Mad Duck]

Brinstar is good for both I think but watch out with Snake,he is a powerhouse and in Brinstar he can kill you incredibly early

 

[Luco]

Brinstar is good for both I think but watch out with Snake,he is a powerhouse and in Brinstar he can kill you incredibly early

True but doesn't the odd geometry of the stage sometimes save you from GR to Utilt there?

Also, the bubbles can be hit so that if he tries to DACUS, he goes no further than the bubbles.

 

[Mad Duck]

True but doesn't the odd geometry of the stage sometimes save you from GR to Utilt there?

Also, the bubbles can be hit so that if he tries to DACUS, he goes no further than the bubbles.

Yeah but there's more **** that can kill you ):

 

[Luco]

Yeah but there's more **** that can kill you ):

True. We have a few of our own tricks as well though.

 

[Kokomaniac]

Is snake a good secondary to cover ness's bad matchups? Sorry if this is considered off topic or something but I need someone else so I don't die to my bad matchups

 

[PK Jibaku]

Is snake a good secondary to cover ness's bad matchups? Sorry if this is considered off topic or something but I need someone else so I don't die to my bad matchups

Some characters can be a pain to Ness, but if you train hard enough you can beat those matchups. I would recommend Meta Knight. "Meta Knight is everything, he's all we ever wanted." xD And he doesn't really have any bad matchups...

 

[Kokomaniac]

Some characters can be a pain to Ness, but if you train hard enough you can beat those matchups. I would recommend Meta Knight. "Meta Knight is everything, he's all we ever wanted." xD And he doesn't really have any bad matchups...

Yeah my friend told me the same thing so ill try them both out and yeah he really doesn't so I might as well lol

 

[Luco]

Pfft, Meta Knight is for dweebs. Unless you're a top player.

Not joking now, MK is a good secondary for Ness. Pika is as well iirc. That said, all of Ness' MUs are do-able, Even Marth and DDD. They're hard but we have a few things we can use in those MUs and with enough skill you can beat the player.

Play the 'don't get grabbed' game, be careful (because at least marth can out-space you if you aren't careful) and bait and punish. Everything in this game is punishable. Also, look for openings you can use to your advantage.

It's still a hard as heck MU but it's not -4 horrendous-ness. Oh, also, if you get grabbed, use techniques to make you slide further away if possible and/or air release. Remember that if you mash more, he's not going to be able to get as many pummels in and that means less damage.

 

[Tikao]

meh , don't play Ness against Marf , even without grabreleases , this MU just sucks xD , in theory , every MU is do-able , but you must be way better than the marf , or the marf should be realy bad in that MU (yay unknown MU-Ness :D) ... but if the marf knows how to play it ... Lucas-marf is way better imo ... but every other MU can be played with Ness :3

... but the don't get grabbed game against marf is realy hard if he spaces right , his fair just ***** Ness
if marf wants to gimp us , he can just jump in our pkt2 and use his counter (which doesn't work against Lucas , because his pkt2 has many hits , Ness only one)

also , after a grabrelease , Lucas just slides further away (if done right)

also pk-fire is like useless against marf , because of his counter , or he can just up-b out of it , and hit you with it (maybe mortal damage ._.) ... ok you can read this , but it's pretty dangerous
Lucas pk-fire is usefull in this MU

we just get outranged , except of our fair , which get out-prio'd xD
he can just approach defensivly , we must go a bit away , so his fair doesn't hit us , but than , there is the end of the stage ... and if we are on the edge , it's hard to reach the stage again against him ... also , if he forces us to use pkt2 ... we are dead xD

why isn't this a -4 MU ... D³ is much better , also Lucas-Marf is better
Lucas isn't like good against Marf , but better than Ness-Marf , and it's the same MU ... and I don't think this MU should be a -2 xD

 

[Nido]

***** please

I CP Marf to FD as Ness

 

[Tikao]

how is that possible D:

 

[Nido]

Because the Marf gets humiliated when they lose.

 

[Luco]

meh , don't play Ness against Marf , even without grabreleases , this MU just sucks xD , in theory , every MU is do-able , but you must be way better than the marf , or the marf should be realy bad in that MU (yay unknown MU-Ness :D) ... but if the marf knows how to play it ... Lucas-marf is way better imo ... but every other MU can be played with Ness :3

... but the don't get grabbed game against marf is realy hard if he spaces right , his fair just ***** Ness
if marf wants to gimp us , he can just jump in our pkt2 and use his counter (which doesn't work against Lucas , because his pkt2 has many hits , Ness only one)

also , after a grabrelease , Lucas just slides further away (if done right)

also pk-fire is like useless against marf , because of his counter , or he can just up-b out of it , and hit you with it (maybe mortal damage ._.) ... ok you can read this , but it's pretty dangerous
Lucas pk-fire is usefull in this MU

we just get outranged , except of our fair , which get out-prio'd xD
he can just approach defensivly , we must go a bit away , so his fair doesn't hit us , but than , there is the end of the stage ... and if we are on the edge , it's hard to reach the stage again against him ... also , if he forces us to use pkt2 ... we are dead xD

why isn't this a -4 MU ... D³ is much better , also Lucas-Marf is better
Lucas isn't like good against Marf , but better than Ness-Marf , and it's the same MU ... and I don't think this MU should be a -2 xD

On paper, yes, but Marths don't always play the MU perfectly. In fact, many get greedy and try to go straight out for the GR. Those that don't you have to be careful of but we can string up a few combos and we can still kill him fine with Bthrow. Play bait and punish and try to mix up your approaches.

Lucas marth is definitely easier, probs still a -3 but one of the easier ones, i'll give you that.

I don't know the entirety of the MU but tell you what, i'll ask Yink. She'll have a better idea of what we can do than I can.

 

[Tikao]

isn't it like , the MUs are based on that (so the Marf knows the MU perfect and the ness too?)
don't know , if it should be a hard -3 or a weak -4
like donkey/bowser-d³ is a -4 , and Ness-marf is way better , but compaired with other -3 MUs , marf it's just harder ... there should be MUs like -3,5 / -2,5 / -1,5 etc ...

 

[Luco]

isn't it like , the MUs are based on that (so the Marf knows the MU perfect and the ness too?)
don't know , if it should be a hard -3 or a weak -4
like donkey/bowser-d³ is a -4 , and Ness-marf is way better , but compaired with other -3 MUs , marf it's just harder ... there should be MUs like -3,5 / -2,5 / -1,5 etc ...

Sorry, I mis-stated. An integral part of marth's game is his ability to space and wall people out. But everyone makes mistakes and he's gotta make one sooner or later, you know what i mean? It's like when we whiff Dair and get all that landing lag that we can be seriously punished for.

 

[Tikao]

i never got that ending lag *cough* ;P
yeah , everyone is making mistakes , and it's not like , any MUs are like impossible , but if you're like as good as your enemy , and both of you are realy good (which is the concept for the MU) its like a realy hard counter ... so it would be a -3 (hard counter) ... don't know if it should be close tzo unwinnable , it's not THAT bad , but "only" a hard counter? ... need a -3,5 MU xD ... marf makes mistake , but the ness isn't perfect either
i know what you want to say , but i'm still not sure about that MU
some people are judging MUs against some people , who don't know it , like , "Ness-Marf should be a -2 , because i've won against that and that marf etc." ... if the marf knows the MU , it's not a -2 MU (only an example) , you can beat as many Marfs as you want , if nobody of them knows the MU , it doesn't count xD

well , that's all about the theory , it's not like impossible , in theory , IC should be the best , and mk second , but mk is still better (only an example, too xD)

 

[Nido]

In theory, Ganon is top tier, theoretically have the items on then coincidently have a bomb spawn on MK's nado which could hypothetically KO him thus giving you the lead and pray to Giygas that it happens two more times.

Ganon for Über Tier

 

[Tikao]

could contain some earthbound/mother3 spoilers , so don't read this , if you haven't played it yet ... and just play it , specially , when you main Ness/Lucas D:

why praying to Giygas? , he scared the **** out of me , when i was 7 ... or 8 , don't know ... also he prepared Porky/Pokey ... and so , all that stuff in mother3 happened ... poor Lucas ;_;
ok it's not like Giygas wanted , that everything like that happened , he is a Fetus , emerged out of a **** (when you fight against him) , so he had no choice
and because of him (or Porky/Pokey , who was prepaired by him) , like the whole world got destroyed ... except than nowhere island , which could be destroyed at the end (for me , it's not clearly , that nowhere island , and everyone survived , yes , they said this , but after it got destroyed , and that could be an illuision , but you can't see anything , when Lucas said this , so he could've used his psi-stuff to tell you this , so you aren't worried about him , and maybe everyone is dead , and it's only his soul , telling us this ... like i said , I'm not sure , if they survived or not , and that's not only because of Giygas , but without of him , Lucas wouldn't be that sad ... I'm sry for him ;_; his mother died , his brother died , both in front of Lucas ... and Lucas could have the feeling that he killed his brother , because his franklin badge reflected the attack of him ;_; he died in his arms ;_;

 

[Nido]

Just a tad overkill?
I see your points and they'd be fitting of it were say Ness in the brawl but it's Ganon who's evil, so him asking out his evil homies seems right to me.

 

[yoshi8984]

My brother mains Marth and doesn't know about the deathgrab. xD
Errrr anyways, for neutral stages, try to avoid stages with platforms since Marth gets tippers more easily. Perhaps Smashville would be best of neutrals in this MU? Though if you prefer other stages, it's your choice, just watch out if it's one with platforms.

For counterpicks, try going to Brinstar. The acid and short platforms help, though the bubbles can be weird and sometimes make you get stuck if he's deathgrabbing you. If it's banned (whether he bans it or it's not legal in your area xD) then again, just CP a stage you feel comfortable on.

edit: tbh the only MU I feel the need to switch for is G&W, every move of his is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Tikao]

yeah , brinstar is banned xD ... but there are also marf's here , i win against with ness ... and two stock them on yoshi's island hehehe ... i prefer banning Yoshi's Island or bf (bf is in general my worst stage , and again marf , like you said , platforms are not that good ... counterpicking delfino( my always loved stage xD) or fd (large stage , no platform) ... and smashville isn't that good against marf in europe , because liek everyoine is platformcacnling xD ... it's so european ... along with his tippers , and his deathgrab , they can just be a surprise sometimes ... but it's not that bad , just be carefull about something like that , bf and yi are much worse

 

[Nido]

Curse you guys getting Delfino D:<
I'm stuck with SV, BF, FD, Lylat, Yoshi's and PS1
BF is my best out of those 6
SV is ok
FD is gaaaaaaaaaay (except when they don't know the MU)
Yoshi's is a hellhole
Lylat is a hellhole
PS1 I don't know much about

 

[Tikao]

ps1 is very nice ... when you understand the edges xD ... and it's the "i'll timeout you" stage ... tink was my 2. Main ... it's funneh

lylat ... depends of the MU ... sometimes it's hell , sometimes , I would make sweet love to it (like against Falco)

Yoshi's island sucks for ness

Smashville is awesome , because of platform cancling stuff and the most neutral stage (it's alway like "wanna strike , or pick sv?" ... also , if you strike , 80% of the stages are sv xD)

i hate battlefield :@

and fd is ok , unless you're facing IC

but why only 6 stages?

6 stages?

Stage-List
Starter Stages
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Lylat Cruise
• Smashville
• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)

Counter-Pick Stages
• Castle Siege
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Pokémon Stadium 1
• Pokémon Stadium 2

and I'm jealous of brinstar ... I'm feeling bad now

 

[Nido]

In Victoria it's
Starter
- SV
- FD
- BF
Counterpicks
- Lylat
- Yoshi's
- PS1

I never felt at home on Brinstar but I know why it's good for Ness, just not me.

 

[Tikao]

would be my favorite stage : ( ... noticed that , while playing some "moa stagez allowd" side-events ... pkt2 through this many-log-things ... don't know what they are , but you'll just like stop there , and destroy one log , fly 1 centimeter to the next just stop there , while destroy this one , the time of the hitbox is just extended ? can you say that ... english meh , it's funny , when your enemy don't know this and run just in your pkt2 xD

also , why is bf good for Ness? ... it's (for me) like the worst stage (can't decide if yoshis island or battlefield) ... Yoshi's island is obvious , but what makes battlefield good ? the platforms are just in my way ... air-mobility and stuff ... also the stage is pretty short , so spacing is harder , because of less space

 

[yoshi8984]

I don't know why I like Battlefield, I guess mainly because platforms can help with Jab Locks xD

Delfino, Halberd and Brinstar are my faves though. Basically any stage with a passable platform LOL
Also, I love Halberd's Butter Building music. XD
Though I will ban it against a Snake, lol

 

[Mad Duck]

I think any stage with platform is good,and you can set-up a Jab Lock or do some sexy stuff with PKT

 

[Kokomaniac]

I like smashville the best, I don't know why, I just really like it. I choose FD a lot but I'm really starting to like it a lot less as I play more and more and my friends, who I play with a lot, continue to improve. Overall though Smashville is my favorite, Battlefield is up there too

 

[PK Jibaku]

FD is a bad choice when you're playing Marths and other characters that can CG Ness.

I like BF because it's small and has tiny platforms... ._.

 

[yoshi8984]

Er new question, how come sometimes when I Jab/D-Tilt someone lying on the ground, they're forced to do their get-up animation and other times they can control it?

 

[Luco]

Er new question, how come sometimes when I Jab/D-Tilt someone lying on the ground, they're forced to do their get-up animation and other times they can control it?

Is this at like 30% At that point, they immediately get up after like 2 Dtilts.

Or if you mean occasionally rolling and the like, I don't know either but it's why I barely ever go in to usmash after a Dtilt lock now and go straight to Dsmash/Fsmash.

Okay, I talked to Yink about the marth MU and she says you have to be patient. The reason why this MU is a -3 and not a -4 is because Ness doesn't have killing issues and we can harass Marth off-stage. Apparently our dash grab is good in the MU and though we'll probably take damage, super armour will help. We have to play bait and punish. You just have to practice it a bit and make sure you don't stress in your matches. Playing this MU is like surgery, she says, you have to be precise. Just have to be patient. =)

We have some nice priority on our aerials. Stay near the edge and input so that you release when he's not pummeling if possible.

 

[Kokomaniac]

Is PK Flash edgeguard a thing? I use it a few times a game especially on characters with linear recoveries like Link, TL, sometimes Falco if I hit him far enough and he's being predictable, etc... When it hits, it's hilarious, and sometimes, in my opponents' haste to avoid it, they end up not being able to reach the platform after it explodes. I think it's situationally good but it seems to have a bad rep or it isn't used much.

I use PK thunder a lot to edgeguard (/juggle/pressure offstage) as well but sometimes I find myself using it too much and then it's mostly avoided or blocked or something, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't incorporating something into my game (ie PK Flash) that wasn't necessarily good.