Need some advice or have a question about something? Ask here!

[brinboy789]

How important is stage counterpicking?

Just wanna hear some answers.

IMO it depends on the char. if your versing D3 and bridge of eldin isnt banned in your area, then you obviously would avoid there. but against other chars, its not so important

 

[_Phloat_]

Just a question. It isn't really about smash, but it concerns this thread so I would guess it belongs here...

For some reason, this thread has like a higher tolerance of "read". What I mean is, while one post on the GaW boards makes the title bold for me, brinboy's post didn't do anything. Anything at all. It was still "read" even though there were new things to read..

Any way to change this, or is it a glitch with vbullitin as threads get bigger, or what?

 

[infomon]

I doubt it has anything to do with "prioritizing" one thread vs. another. I think it's just that after a certain amount of time, it just "unbolds" threads you haven't looked at, assuming they're unimportant since you didn't look at them. They're no longer "new". And I think there's sometime at nights (around 2am EST I think, but it prolly depends on your own registered timezone), when it decides that the old day is done and its threads are all unbolded. But I could be wrong....

Iunno it's weird lol

 

[Shaya]

How do you DI Pit's uair effectively?

 

[THE IRON KENYAN]

So Ive began to take in interest in learning more about smash bros brawl and how to get better at it.

I had a bit of an epiphany after reading one of the threads called "Play to learn"

In that thread they talked about confidence, determination, some stuff on simple and obvious ways to get better, and mental fortitude.

I then realized that a lot of things take time to get better at, and that I should go with the flow and learn at my own pace. In general it increased my understanding principles of actually getting good at something and really opened be up to something so simple and brilliant that I was surprised I didn't think of it before. My emotional maturity or knowledge database increased, whatever you'd like to call it helped me a bundle.

So I don't know any techniques or much lingo at all, but I have figured out what Character I'd like to get better at and have heard rumors about being pretty good in brawl, Mr Game and Watch.

Ive already got the two most important things down, a knowledge of the games controls and the ability to play for fun.

So experienced smasher I ask you this: Whats the first thing I should learn next? or if this sounds a bit vague, what area should I be focusing on next?

 

[infomon]

IMO: learn to read ppl and respond to their habits, approaches, and all the situations you get into with your character.

Basically, just get lots of experience fighting real people. The more you're responding to them; spacing yourself just outside of the range of their attacks, learning when it's safe to move in with yours or fake-out approaches, etc..... that will help you more than memorizing weird ATs/glitches.

 

[THE IRON KENYAN]

IMO: learn to read ppl and respond to their habits, approaches, and all the situations you get into with your character.

Basically, just get lots of experience fighting real people. The more you're responding to them; spacing yourself just outside of the range of their attacks, learning when it's safe to move in with yours or fake-out approaches, etc..... that will help you more than memorizing weird ATs/glitches.

Sure experience is everything, but where exactly can I learn the brawl lingo I keep hearing all the time I tried to look it up, I just have no idea what its classified under.

Mainly what im trying to ask is what are the basics and where can I find them? such as applicable knowledges, gameplay, and term that benefits just about anyone no matter what character they are playing. Thats what im trying to ask. Sorry if I was a bit misleading, I hope this clears things up.

 

[_Phloat_]

Check out the GaW character boards. They are a good place to discuss GaW more specifically, and the guide has a list of lingo I believe.

 

[deepseadiva]

Thank you for the answers, much appreciated.

I come with a new question though:

What is the general argument against MK not having bad stages? Specifically Green Greens, or Yoshi's Island Melee?

I think I see the logic behind it, but then common sense kicks in.

 

[infomon]

I... don't understand which argument you want clarified. The argument that MK has no bad stages, or the argument that MK has bad stages? Or the argument that either of those is relevant, say, for deciding if he should be banned?

 

[deepseadiva]

I... don't understand which argument you want clarified. The argument that MK has no bad stages, or the argument that MK has bad stages? Or the argument that either of those is relevant, say, for deciding if he should be banned?

I would consider Green Greens and Yoshi's Island Melee stage counterpicks against MK.

Others would disagree with me saying they are not. I'd like to hear their points.

 

[infomon]

Hmmmm... ask Overswarm, I've heard him describe why YI:M was thought to be an MK counter, then he (and presumably others) decided that if you know how to play the stage right, MK's actually great there. I think it had something to do with him being able to camp the left side really effectively, to knock ppl back into the really close left killzone for easy low-% KOs. I'm not sure on the details tho, obv.

I'm not sure about GG either, but I bet OS would be able to give you the argument.

Edit: Also, just being MK's worst stages, doesn't mean that they're necessarily a good counterpick stage against MK for your character. Whether the stage is "good" or "bad" depends on the matchup, not each character individually.

I know Sonics like GG and YI:M, but I don't know what other characters would say the same, lolol. Do they work well for Snake/G&W/Yoshi?

 

[deepseadiva]

Edit: Also, just being MK's worst stages, doesn't mean that they're necessarily a good counterpick stage against MK for your character. Whether the stage is "good" or "bad" depends on the matchup, not each character individually.

Yes, of course, you don't have to tell me that.

Now,

Overswarm,
Overswarm,
Overswarm.

I know Sonics like GG and YI:M, but I don't know what other characters would say the same, lolol. Do they work well for Snake/G&W/Yoshi?

I'd imagine it would do well for Snake, G&W depending on the matchup, and Yoshi, I have no clue.

 

[infomon]

Yes, of course, you don't have to tell me that.

Now,

Overswarm,
Overswarm,
Overswarm.

lullz.... ok, sorry if I sounded condescending or smthg, I don't know you, and I'm not at the top of the metagame enough to be able to argue about MK counterpicks etc., I just try and forward to where you can find more info... so meh!

 

[Shy Guy 86]

When will Tier List 2.0 get released?

 

[infomon]

Mainly what im trying to ask is what are the basics and where can I find them? such as applicable knowledges, gameplay, and term that benefits just about anyone no matter what character they are playing. Thats what im trying to ask. Sorry if I was a bit misleading, I hope this clears things up.

Oh, I misunderstood. You should follow some of the links here:
[The MOST IMPORTANT Thread You'll Ever Read.]
^^ dumb title, it's just links to important stuff

IMO, the noteworthy guides are the SSBM Compedium of Knowledge (since it will explain a lot of the terms/acronyms you still see thrown around here, even though it's for Melee), the Physics of Attacks thread (great explanation of DI, priority as it exists in Brawl, etc.), and Using Aerials for Recovery (which describes the momentum-cancelling system, which helps you recover even after DI).

Hope this helps.

 

[Oddler]

I have two questions
Question 1: I heard move deterioration is only for the last 9 moves you do. Is that true? If I F-Smash 10x in a row but if I do 9 other moves and land it on my opponent will my F-Smash be fresh again?

Question 2: I also heard that using hits from your grab can undeteriorate your moves faster? Is that true?

Sub question of #2: If I do a jab-lock and manage to get off like 20 jabs across a screen will all my moves with the exception of my first jab be FRESH status again?

 

[infomon]

Yes, yes, and yes.

Edit: With grab-jabs, be careful... if your jabs happen too quickly in succession, they can count as the "same move", and so they'll only count for one move in the stale moves queue. This means the jab causes more damage, but it's probably not what you want.

You can experiment in training mode, if you want to check out the timing for it; if the jabs count as a "combo", then they're one move in the queue.

 

[Oddler]

Ok, that's actually great to know. Although, whats this about grab-jabs happening too quickly? I'm a Link user so let's say that I throw out my hookshot and grab a person. If I hit them on the head with the hilt of my sword while they're being grabbed that will free up my 9th queue move? but if I do it too fast it won't free up the 8th and still count as the 9th? Can you explain a little further people...this is really interesting. I appreciate the knowledge, infzy :D

 

[Hype]

That interesting.

 

[infomon]

Oddler, sounds like you got it. If you have great timing, you can buffer one jab-hit from the next, so the two are like one "multi-hit" move (like a Pika Dsmash, that hits multiple times), and so only counts as one spot in the queue.

This is just what I've read, however, I haven't tested it out myself, but I described the method that can be used in training mode to experiment with the timing... of course, moves don't stale in training mode, so you'd have to find other creative ways to really verify the effect.

 

[Oddler]

What button spamming combinations are the best to press for getting out of a grab. Also, which buttons work to get out of grabs and which don't. Is there a BEST combo.

All that ^

 

[Zatman]

Ok, I have a little noobish problem...
Up till now I have been playing against mostly same players, but recently I have been started playing in wifi and i found out that there are many flaws in my play. So I want to ask about the biggest one. In short i lack experience.

So, e.g when 1 vs. 1, I am Lucario my opponent is C. Falcon or Samus. We take our battle to edge and the problem starts here. He tries hits me, i spot dodgel and when it ends he grabs or hits me, if i roll back i get punished by dsmash. I almost always lose this kind of situations even if it not on the edges. I always get grabbed or hit, whatever I or he tries to hit first.
What should i do in this kind of situation? (and maybe how can i avoid this kind of situations beforehand?)

Of course i undestand that it depends on situations, but i must know what i lack.

P.s. Sorry if this kind of question was asked before.

 

[Cero]

What button spamming combinations are the best to press for getting out of a grab. Also, which buttons work to get out of grabs and which don't. Is there a BEST combo.

All that ^

The best way to break out of a grab is to rapidly spin the control stick in a 360 degree motion and mash on the A, B, X, Y buttons. IIRC, the L/R triggers, C stick, and control pad don't do anything for a grab break.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

What makes the rules that the metagame uses the highest level of playing Brawl? What defines the highest level of play? (If there is a thread that explains it, link please?)

 

[SuSa]

What makes the rules that the metagame uses the highest level of playing Brawl? What defines the highest level of play? (If there is a thread that explains it, link please?)

The highest level of play is basically just saying the best that character can be played.

Think of it as the 'best' possible way a character can be played. It's what works best, even if not everyone uses it.

The highest level of play defines itself. It's the highest level of play.

 

[viparagon]

The highest level of play is basically just saying the best that character can be played.

Think of it as the 'best' possible way a character can be played. It's what works best, even if not everyone uses it.

The highest level of play defines itself. It's the highest level of play.

I thought it referring to the current metagame...

 

[Cross.]

Sorry for not searching if this was asked before but...wow too many pages. Anyways, what is the situation that you loose your jumps? Sometimes I get hit of the stage and I can't jump, only UP B or Side B. I die alot due to this cuz I'm not aware when it happens and react too late cuz I expect to jump.

 

[_Phloat_]

the only situation you lose jumps is when you use them. For example say you wanted to do a jump to avoid the opponent, and the second you press it you get hit. You won't have the jump, even if you didn't get a boost from it.

 

[Cross.]

the only situation you lose jumps is when you use them. For example say you wanted to do a jump to avoid the opponent, and the second you press it you get hit. You won't have the jump, even if you didn't get a boost from it.

Oh I see. Thanks for the speedy reply. Guess that means that I have to pay more attention then

 

[The Halloween Captain]

The highest level of play is basically just saying the best that character can be played.

Think of it as the 'best' possible way a character can be played. It's what works best, even if not everyone uses it.

The highest level of play defines itself. It's the highest level of play.

Thanks, but not quite what I meant. I meant I know what the highest level of play is and what a metagame is, but how do we define what we are doing as the highest level of play? Super Smash Bros. is a game intended to be played as a four player free-for-all death match. The default setting was "time," not stock. The default items are on, and were always meant to be a part of the game. This is also true of the stages we ban. While I understand why we did this, we really are not playing the original game at the highest level after adjusting all the rules like that.

How are we still playing the game at the highest level when we changed all the original rules?

 

[False Soundz]

A hard question for you guys, or maybe not.

How to stand out from everyone else when using a character? For example MK. How are you supposed to stand out from a crowd of MK's?

Not that I use MK, just curious lol.

 

[cubick]

I would think you would have to play then a different playstyle than everyone else.

 

[XxBlackxX]

A hard question for you guys, or maybe not.

How to stand out from everyone else when using a character? For example MK. How are you supposed to stand out from a crowd of MK's?

Not that I use MK, just curious lol.

well your question is pretty unspecific. how exactly do you want to "stand out"?
i mean if you SD every stock in a match i think you'll "stand out" from the rest of the MK's, but im sure that's not the answer you were looking for so be more specific.

 

[_Phloat_]

A hard question for you guys, or maybe not.

How to stand out from everyone else when using a character? For example MK. How are you supposed to stand out from a crowd of MK's?

Not that I use MK, just curious lol.

Winners stand out.

Win.

 

[infomon]

What makes the rules that the metagame uses the highest level of playing Brawl? What defines the highest level of play? (If there is a thread that explains it, link please?)

Thanks, but not quite what I meant. I meant I know what the highest level of play is and what a metagame is, but how do we define what we are doing as the highest level of play? Super Smash Bros. is a game intended to be played as a four player free-for-all death match. The default setting was "time," not stock. The default items are on, and were always meant to be a part of the game. This is also true of the stages we ban. While I understand why we did this, we really are not playing the original game at the highest level after adjusting all the rules like that.

How are we still playing the game at the highest level when we changed all the original rules?

Hummm, you seem to be a little scattered.

When we're talking about the "metagame", we're not just talking about how Brawl is played, but how the-game-of-Brawl-with-our-tournament-style-rules is played. We're not playing Sakurai-Brawl, we're playing Competitive-Brawl. Think of it as its own game. Why should the competitive scene care about what the default settings of the game are, or what some ppl claim was the game's "true intention", if those settings don't make for a good competitive game? We do make a tradeoff.. we don't play a hacked version of the game, we don't enforce arbitrary handicaps or "MK can't use the B button" or silly things like that... it's unhealthy to spinoff the competitive scene of the game into its own exclusive bubble. But we pick the obvious options from the obvious-options-menu that make the game playable in a competitive environment, while still being natural to the general community of fans of the game.

So now that we're talking about the right game (Competitive-Brawl), I think you misunderstand the term "highest level of play". It's not a property of the game, ex. "In This Game, This is the Absolute Optimal way it can be played, to perfectly achieve the goals of This Game". You could claim something like that for a game such as Guitar Hero, where there's a precise goal and an objective measurement of your achievement of that goal. But not for Brawl -- where the "highest level of play" is a property of the community moreso than the game itself. It might be better to call it "the highest known level of play that would be effective in our tournaments".

Now, the metagame AFAIK is the collective general understanding, from our best players, of how each of Brawl's characters should be best played. And all the matchup information, and situational information -- understanding the set of options available to a character for spacing, brickwalling, recovery, etc...... That's the metagame. If some new AT comes a long that seriously impacts gameplay, or if some new strategy for a character shakes our matchup knowledge, this changes the metagame; it changes how we know the character should behave, in order to be played best, as far as we know.

It makes sense to talk about the metagame of our smartest players, ie. at the highest level of play, because those are the people who are right. Noone wants to listen to someone talk about how Falcon Punch is overpowered because it's so strong. It's extremely impractical in tournament, that is, it's not very effective in the combination of the Competitive-Brawl rules, and our current understanding of the metagame.

Am I making sense? Feel free to disagree with anything I've said, I know I'm not expressing myself all that clearly.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Thanks, Infzy! It seems kinda odd that we take the original Brawl game, use our own rules, and then blame Sakurai for not balancing his game to our rules

 

[Oddler]

Where is the link to that matchup guide where it shows a green check for if youre great at fighting them and an X if that character isn't. Huge huge square chart with pictures.

 

[Cero]

^^

Brawl Character Match-Up chart
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979

Character Board Specific Matchup Chart Project (Last Update: 11/22)
http://www.smashboards.net/showthread.php?t=186338

The first link is probably directed to the chart you were talking about. The one with the green check marks and X's and stuff...
But, just for reference, I added in a second match-up chart.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Also another thing, how does Smash BR measure skill level ? Anyone know?

Cause I reckon it would be really hard, because SBR are dealing with data that is very hard to quantify.