DJRome
Smash Hero
lol brawler calling my game gay bahahahahaha
edit: ewww, creepy crawler lurker
edit: ewww, creepy crawler lurker
-
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NCSU Smash Stacks - Round 9 @DUKE 10/30
- Thread starter Foxy
- Start date
Juno McGrath
Smash Hero
DJRome
Smash Hero
i have a sharp wit
And a loose tongue <3
TheLastCacely
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2009
- Messages
- 6,937
keika kakaru!
( what ever get him out of here means in Japanese.)
( what ever get him out of here means in Japanese.)
DJRome
Smash Hero
keith, u should learn english first
TheLastCacely
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2009
- Messages
- 6,937
No
tenrefusals
tenrefusals
DJRome
Smash Hero
i am. . .
Gardevior
Smash Lord
Btw dj, we pushed the draft back to 4:00. And we already have eight people Jon....
TheLastCacely
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2009
- Messages
- 6,937
how much is the draft?
i have like 20 bucks, and i want new myr cards.
i have like 20 bucks, and i want new myr cards.
V1CE
Smash Champion
get ***** keith they just dont want cha ther lol jk <3
Gardevior
Smash Lord
I mean, we could do two drafts and kick out the losers from the first draft but idk how Keith would get here. I certainly don't mind...
Draft would be free keith. Or like $5 at most.
Draft would be free keith. Or like $5 at most.
bossa nova ♪
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Messages
- 2,876
<33 dj
Kaila
MLG That Bracket Girl that makes cookies <font col
MTG wat?
**** them, you can just come play with me and my roommates.
**** them, you can just come play with me and my roommates.
TheLastCacely
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2009
- Messages
- 6,937
she knows what MTG is jon....
Kaila
MLG That Bracket Girl that makes cookies <font col
It was more of a 'happy surprise that it is the current topic at hand' wat.
Still, **** *****es, we'll do our own 'private' draft.
DJRome
Smash Hero
**** you
Foxy
Smash Master
I'm not sure exactly how to describe it so I'll just type off of the top of my head - I would like to start some discussion in NC about some really different types of pot distributions.
Seeing $12,500 for first, $35,000 in prizes, and only the top 8 in singles gets paid? There were players who flew to Dallas, upset literal pros, or performed at the pro level they are already at, made it to the PRO bracket, and didn't get a dime? Players who put every ounce of effort in, and SUCCEEDED at it, along with the entire effort to make it to the event and prepare and such... let me give a better example.
Championship Bracket, Round 2 of Losers, Losers Place 9th-12th
MJG vs Atomsk
DEHF vs Tyrant
Dojo vs Ally
MikeHaze vs Lee Martin
These matches were the equivalent of
ONE-THOUSAND DOLLAR TO TWELVE-AND-A-HALF-THOUSAND DOLLAR MONEY MATCHES
I almost felt sick.
Most of them went to 5 rounds, and for players like DEHF, who are world-class, and spend so much of their lives on this game, and actually got to the championship bracket at a national event, to be forced to play one best-of-5 round, coming down to 1 or 2 hits, in a game with a lot of factors, to decide whether he goes home with ZERO dollars or anywhere from ONE to TWELVE AND A HALF THOUSAND DOLLARS.
Now obviously this is just bat**** crazy pot distributions from MLG with too much money on their hands and not realizing that a top 12 round leading to a prize money difference of FOUR TIMES that of a match one round LATER in the tournament, and not realizing that almost never in the history of Smash has one round, or even one grand finals round, been the deciding factor of a $1,000 dollar prize difference between the two players.
So this obviously was a rant more about MLG than local tournaments like here in NC, but it definitely got me thinking.
We always use tournament matches as a better source of data and a better way to evaluate performance from player skill because money is on the line, there are actual prizes that are being played for.
Well, we rarely stop to think of the actual truth of that. I definitely remember being a player that always entered tournaments to improve, but almost every tournament money was not in my thoughts past the registration fees. I knew there was a 0% chance of me, a newer player, or me as a promising player, or even me as a top 10 power-ranked player, or beating the other competitors that are expected to take the top spots. This isn't a small period of time. This is actually the truth for most of the career of the vast majority of tournament players of smash, with the tiny exception of players with a lot of confidence or high expectations that never make it in the money, but always know that they can if they would just play well enough.
And we think of things like 70/20/10 and 60/30/10 as pretty normal and fine pot splits, and something like 50/25/10/5/5/5 as somewhat new, but also acceptable. But does anyone actually think about what the prize distributions become, what they reward, and what they do for the community?
What's the value in having tournaments (where the POINT of the event is competing to win the prize money, if we don't accept that as the point, then we invalidate all our PR data) when 75% of our entire community has never or almost never won ANY money at a tournament, at least 50% of them try their best and do improve and are skilled but still don't even think about the chance of winning money, they play each match simply as a test of skill, or something to get recognized for PR's, but even though losing means no money, they know that any reasonably seeded bracket will not let them realistically approach any money, even if they win their evenly-matched opponents, and even if they upset some players a bit above them?
And doesn't a money match, where two players both directly have a difference in their prize money based on the set, hold more weight then? A match where one player might win $1-$10 dollars, versus a match where regardless of who wins, both players already know they won't win money? And we all know how controversial using money matches for PR data is; lots of money matches aren't serious, even with the money on the line... the only prize-related motivation in a tournament match for most players is the fact that they spent their $5 to enter, so they might as well not waste it if they can help it (which happens to be identical to the effect of a $5 money match).
The current tournament theory is killing the competitive scene. The ability to win money is only a factor in motivation for maybe the top 20-30% of the community, depending on how often upsets happen there, and how big the skill gaps are. A portion of the remaining players (even really talented ones) are usually in limbo about quitting or entering tournaments because competing doesn't have any motivators for them, even if they play at or above their ability level.
tl;dr
I want to discuss and investigate much more spread pot splits, with much smaller gaps between prizes, slightly lowering the motivation of top players, and increasing the motivation and purpose of competing for all other levels of players, and those are the ones who actually need it to stick to the game and develop their potential (which the top players have already done quite a bit).
NCSU 9 Brawl Singles had 33 entrants, with a $120 pot, pretty low because our locals are only $5, and because I had to be on the safe side with setups so some people got free entrance as an incentive (now that I know we are safer with setup numbers, probably won't do it next time). In the bracket, there were 64 wins (and 64 losses of course). People who went better-than-even ( at least 3-2) made up the top 12. Top 16 was players who went even (2-2), and top 24 were all players who at least won a round. 3 wins is a very strong performance, and although none of the 3-2 players had big upsets, since they were higher seeds, they all performed with strength and played to their ability, and beat everyone they should have beat near their skill level, and 3 or those 4 players are also power ranked. But even with my extended split, with top 6 getting money, it's still very small.
Let's say you're a top player in your area, and mainly the only tournament there are smaller locals, almost always < 20 people, with cheap entrance fees. You know you wouldn't probably make money in a tougher region, and very improbable you'd get close to money at a regional. If there weren't any precedents in the community already about prize amounts, how much do you think you would hope to get, if you beat everyone you were supposed to, and won the tournament? $50 would seem like a lot to you. $40 is still a lot. Personally, with no existing ideas, but the same tournament size and same skill, I would hope/expect that the first place prize was at $30 or more for just one event. If you have a hard time imagining that to be realistic in that situation, it helps to imagine a scrub tournament you've seen or been to or heard of, something at maybe a Play And Trade (of which I've been to a handful of)... they are usually normal cheap entry, usually about the same number of entrants as a small local, but because it's not run by our community, you forget to expect $40-100 if you win. I've won 5 (?) tournaments run outside the smash community, with entrance fees and money prizes, and none of them were above $25 or $30 for a single event that small. And I still felt like I was ripping them off winning that much just by playing at my expected level.
I want players to have a reason to keep playing. I want the promise of a tournament, the promise of a competition to play as best as you can and each round you win will prove your skill and get you closer to the prizes, to stay true, just like we all thought it was back when we were scrubs just going to our first tournaments. We thought: "Wow, I've been playing competitively with people for a while (or maybe just casually until now), but there are whole other groups that have tournaments and competitions where if I can beat enough people, I can win money! I'm not sure how good other players will be, but probably a lot better than me so I'm going to attend one to learn what they're like, to get some experience, and maybe I'll get lucky, but it will probably take me some serious practicing and tournament attending for a while until I'm good enough to win money if I play my best."
For most of you, if you aren't a top player, it's been months, maybe a year, maybe YEARS since you first had thoughts like that. Did you picture yourself in a year still attending tournament, and having improved more than you even imagined at the beginning, and having some good events where you upset some respected players, and gaining tons of experience about tournament play, and still not ever having won any money, and still rarely thinking about competing for a prize when you pay money to compete?
I personally have won events at probably around 10 tournaments, and probably around 20 individual events. In terms of prize money, probably around $200 from all of them combined. In terms of entrance, that's 40 $5 events, or 20 $5 events where you enter singles and doubles. Count in the fact that I've usually played both Brawl and Melee, and some events have cost more than $5 (some locals, and the HERB's), and my total for entrance fees over the couple of years is probably from $300-$400. I've been power ranked in both games, I've been power ranked top 5 in both games, I've had periods where I've won money consistently, and at the moment I still don't think of my tournament sets as obstacles on my way to a shot at the prize (although I have had that mindset in periods where I was more successful), not in either game. And it's the same mindset I had after a few months in the scene. So I know how a lot of players feel. And I certainly am not expressing feeling bad about my situation, I think mine is incredibly lucky compared to most, I've actually experienced regular winnings for some periods, and I've been given some recognition in both games (a lot of it undeserved or speculated 0.o), and I've ran 14 of my own events where I've always been confident in the tournament theory, too. And even I'm in the same kiddie-pool as most players end up in.
Probably somewhere between 0 and 2 people will actually read this. Hopefully 3+ people manage to get through most or all of it so that I have anyone in NC to discuss and brainstorm with about this issue. Maybe share it with a couple smashers if you do actually read it and have input?
Seeing $12,500 for first, $35,000 in prizes, and only the top 8 in singles gets paid? There were players who flew to Dallas, upset literal pros, or performed at the pro level they are already at, made it to the PRO bracket, and didn't get a dime? Players who put every ounce of effort in, and SUCCEEDED at it, along with the entire effort to make it to the event and prepare and such... let me give a better example.
Championship Bracket, Round 2 of Losers, Losers Place 9th-12th
MJG vs Atomsk
DEHF vs Tyrant
Dojo vs Ally
MikeHaze vs Lee Martin
These matches were the equivalent of
ONE-THOUSAND DOLLAR TO TWELVE-AND-A-HALF-THOUSAND DOLLAR MONEY MATCHES
I almost felt sick.
Most of them went to 5 rounds, and for players like DEHF, who are world-class, and spend so much of their lives on this game, and actually got to the championship bracket at a national event, to be forced to play one best-of-5 round, coming down to 1 or 2 hits, in a game with a lot of factors, to decide whether he goes home with ZERO dollars or anywhere from ONE to TWELVE AND A HALF THOUSAND DOLLARS.
Now obviously this is just bat**** crazy pot distributions from MLG with too much money on their hands and not realizing that a top 12 round leading to a prize money difference of FOUR TIMES that of a match one round LATER in the tournament, and not realizing that almost never in the history of Smash has one round, or even one grand finals round, been the deciding factor of a $1,000 dollar prize difference between the two players.
So this obviously was a rant more about MLG than local tournaments like here in NC, but it definitely got me thinking.
We always use tournament matches as a better source of data and a better way to evaluate performance from player skill because money is on the line, there are actual prizes that are being played for.
Well, we rarely stop to think of the actual truth of that. I definitely remember being a player that always entered tournaments to improve, but almost every tournament money was not in my thoughts past the registration fees. I knew there was a 0% chance of me, a newer player, or me as a promising player, or even me as a top 10 power-ranked player, or beating the other competitors that are expected to take the top spots. This isn't a small period of time. This is actually the truth for most of the career of the vast majority of tournament players of smash, with the tiny exception of players with a lot of confidence or high expectations that never make it in the money, but always know that they can if they would just play well enough.
And we think of things like 70/20/10 and 60/30/10 as pretty normal and fine pot splits, and something like 50/25/10/5/5/5 as somewhat new, but also acceptable. But does anyone actually think about what the prize distributions become, what they reward, and what they do for the community?
What's the value in having tournaments (where the POINT of the event is competing to win the prize money, if we don't accept that as the point, then we invalidate all our PR data) when 75% of our entire community has never or almost never won ANY money at a tournament, at least 50% of them try their best and do improve and are skilled but still don't even think about the chance of winning money, they play each match simply as a test of skill, or something to get recognized for PR's, but even though losing means no money, they know that any reasonably seeded bracket will not let them realistically approach any money, even if they win their evenly-matched opponents, and even if they upset some players a bit above them?
And doesn't a money match, where two players both directly have a difference in their prize money based on the set, hold more weight then? A match where one player might win $1-$10 dollars, versus a match where regardless of who wins, both players already know they won't win money? And we all know how controversial using money matches for PR data is; lots of money matches aren't serious, even with the money on the line... the only prize-related motivation in a tournament match for most players is the fact that they spent their $5 to enter, so they might as well not waste it if they can help it (which happens to be identical to the effect of a $5 money match).
The current tournament theory is killing the competitive scene. The ability to win money is only a factor in motivation for maybe the top 20-30% of the community, depending on how often upsets happen there, and how big the skill gaps are. A portion of the remaining players (even really talented ones) are usually in limbo about quitting or entering tournaments because competing doesn't have any motivators for them, even if they play at or above their ability level.
tl;dr
I want to discuss and investigate much more spread pot splits, with much smaller gaps between prizes, slightly lowering the motivation of top players, and increasing the motivation and purpose of competing for all other levels of players, and those are the ones who actually need it to stick to the game and develop their potential (which the top players have already done quite a bit).
NCSU 9 Brawl Singles had 33 entrants, with a $120 pot, pretty low because our locals are only $5, and because I had to be on the safe side with setups so some people got free entrance as an incentive (now that I know we are safer with setup numbers, probably won't do it next time). In the bracket, there were 64 wins (and 64 losses of course). People who went better-than-even ( at least 3-2) made up the top 12. Top 16 was players who went even (2-2), and top 24 were all players who at least won a round. 3 wins is a very strong performance, and although none of the 3-2 players had big upsets, since they were higher seeds, they all performed with strength and played to their ability, and beat everyone they should have beat near their skill level, and 3 or those 4 players are also power ranked. But even with my extended split, with top 6 getting money, it's still very small.
Let's say you're a top player in your area, and mainly the only tournament there are smaller locals, almost always < 20 people, with cheap entrance fees. You know you wouldn't probably make money in a tougher region, and very improbable you'd get close to money at a regional. If there weren't any precedents in the community already about prize amounts, how much do you think you would hope to get, if you beat everyone you were supposed to, and won the tournament? $50 would seem like a lot to you. $40 is still a lot. Personally, with no existing ideas, but the same tournament size and same skill, I would hope/expect that the first place prize was at $30 or more for just one event. If you have a hard time imagining that to be realistic in that situation, it helps to imagine a scrub tournament you've seen or been to or heard of, something at maybe a Play And Trade (of which I've been to a handful of)... they are usually normal cheap entry, usually about the same number of entrants as a small local, but because it's not run by our community, you forget to expect $40-100 if you win. I've won 5 (?) tournaments run outside the smash community, with entrance fees and money prizes, and none of them were above $25 or $30 for a single event that small. And I still felt like I was ripping them off winning that much just by playing at my expected level.
I want players to have a reason to keep playing. I want the promise of a tournament, the promise of a competition to play as best as you can and each round you win will prove your skill and get you closer to the prizes, to stay true, just like we all thought it was back when we were scrubs just going to our first tournaments. We thought: "Wow, I've been playing competitively with people for a while (or maybe just casually until now), but there are whole other groups that have tournaments and competitions where if I can beat enough people, I can win money! I'm not sure how good other players will be, but probably a lot better than me so I'm going to attend one to learn what they're like, to get some experience, and maybe I'll get lucky, but it will probably take me some serious practicing and tournament attending for a while until I'm good enough to win money if I play my best."
For most of you, if you aren't a top player, it's been months, maybe a year, maybe YEARS since you first had thoughts like that. Did you picture yourself in a year still attending tournament, and having improved more than you even imagined at the beginning, and having some good events where you upset some respected players, and gaining tons of experience about tournament play, and still not ever having won any money, and still rarely thinking about competing for a prize when you pay money to compete?
I personally have won events at probably around 10 tournaments, and probably around 20 individual events. In terms of prize money, probably around $200 from all of them combined. In terms of entrance, that's 40 $5 events, or 20 $5 events where you enter singles and doubles. Count in the fact that I've usually played both Brawl and Melee, and some events have cost more than $5 (some locals, and the HERB's), and my total for entrance fees over the couple of years is probably from $300-$400. I've been power ranked in both games, I've been power ranked top 5 in both games, I've had periods where I've won money consistently, and at the moment I still don't think of my tournament sets as obstacles on my way to a shot at the prize (although I have had that mindset in periods where I was more successful), not in either game. And it's the same mindset I had after a few months in the scene. So I know how a lot of players feel. And I certainly am not expressing feeling bad about my situation, I think mine is incredibly lucky compared to most, I've actually experienced regular winnings for some periods, and I've been given some recognition in both games (a lot of it undeserved or speculated 0.o), and I've ran 14 of my own events where I've always been confident in the tournament theory, too. And even I'm in the same kiddie-pool as most players end up in.
Probably somewhere between 0 and 2 people will actually read this. Hopefully 3+ people manage to get through most or all of it so that I have anyone in NC to discuss and brainstorm with about this issue. Maybe share it with a couple smashers if you do actually read it and have input?
Ocean
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Messages
- 3,810
- Slippi.gg
- OCEAN#0
I'd like to agree to that, but I feel like theres no way to make it work. kevin places first at event he goes to in NC, yet he still comes out in the negative. theres really no way to make it so that everyone profits. personally, I'd rather have 1st-4th get more money, than have myself place 5th or something and get a dollar or two back.
this doesn't apply to larger tournaments though.
this doesn't apply to larger tournaments though.
Foxy
Smash Master
Definitely not everyone will profit, that's pretty backwards, but the goal is to have players who are currently skilled, and outperform other skilled players in tournaments, to profit, or at least make back a bit of money, in that period. But everyone will be in the hole, looking at spendings vs earnings, when included is the long time period that we all have gone to tournaments while we are still improving.
Uncle
Novus Ordo Seclorum
You know, I've always been open to wider pots ever since I started playing this game competitively. I see such good players in 5th-7th that I can't help but wonder "shouldn't these dudes get at least some money for their efforts?"
A few bucks to cover part of their entry fees wouldn't be big, but it would be nice either way you spin it. Usually, the top 3 would still be getting their entry fees back and then some, so they shouldn't complain much.
Basically, I'm saying that Foxy is on to something here. Spreading pot distributions in NC tourneys will probably do more good than harm. There's no need to jump into anything right away, but this proposal deserves consideration and discussion.
Would a wider pot boost my motivation? Maybe a little bit, but I'd keep on truckin' like a bad*** even if they didn't change. That's just how I am in this game.
A few bucks to cover part of their entry fees wouldn't be big, but it would be nice either way you spin it. Usually, the top 3 would still be getting their entry fees back and then some, so they shouldn't complain much.
Basically, I'm saying that Foxy is on to something here. Spreading pot distributions in NC tourneys will probably do more good than harm. There's no need to jump into anything right away, but this proposal deserves consideration and discussion.
Would a wider pot boost my motivation? Maybe a little bit, but I'd keep on truckin' like a bad*** even if they didn't change. That's just how I am in this game.
Foxy
Smash Master
You're one of the types of players I feel like this will do the most for, in terms of what I'd really like to see.You know, I've always been open to wider pots ever since I started playing this game competitively. I see such good players in 5th-7th that I can't help but wonder "shouldn't these dudes get at least some money for their efforts?"
A few bucks to cover part of their entry fees wouldn't be big, but it would be nice either way you spin it. Usually, the top 3 would still be getting their entry fees back and then some, so they shouldn't complain much.
Basically, I'm saying that Foxy is on to something here. Spreading pot distributions in NC tourneys will probably do more good than harm. There's no need to jump into anything right away, but this proposal deserves consideration and discussion.
Would a wider pot boost my motivation? Maybe a little bit, but I'd keep on truckin' like a bad*** even if they didn't change. That's just how I am in this game.
You've stuck with your characters, so your placing is limited a bit, but you've always put effort in and you're definitely good now and getting better, and in the kind of tournament theory you'd hope for, you would be a player that after a few more months of practice, focus, and attendance, would be able to enter a tournament thinking "if I play my game, stay on point, and go a round at a time I can upset a higher seed or maybe two and make it to prizes", but in the current style, that would never happen. Let's hope we figure something out!
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 16,415
I've never really gone into any tournament expecting to win before really. I go in to think that I'll try my best as possible and have a fun time doing so. Then I got 3rd in low tiers and got my 5 dollars back (calculating, I should have gotten 5.50 ) and was like
.
It's pretty cool being rewarded for my efforts I've put into Lucas and I feel that it makes me realllly want to get into the scene more. Just giving small bucks to people that place somewhat decently really helps to boost their morale.
) and was like
It's pretty cool being rewarded for my efforts I've put into Lucas and I feel that it makes me realllly want to get into the scene more. Just giving small bucks to people that place somewhat decently really helps to boost their morale.
Stockfield
Smash Champion
That was good Foxy.
Yeah I feel like when a player is rewarded even if it's a little bit. It makes a huge difference to them.
I doubt the people that regularly make money be happy about it though.
Yeah I feel like when a player is rewarded even if it's a little bit. It makes a huge difference to them.
I doubt the people that regularly make money be happy about it though.
When did tournaments turn into "let's all hold hands and pat each other on the back bros?" The reason the pot is split like it is in NC or anywhere is because THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE WHO DESERVE THE MONEY. You're not playing this game to boost the ego of everyone else, and if people seriously give up and quit because they aren't turning a profit/getting money back then they're playing the game for the wrong reasons(at least on a local level) and need to re-evaluate their priorities.
When I went to my first tournament, I wasn't thinking "oh well I got 4th, I guess I deserve to get rewarded the same as these seasoned players who have been playing for longer than me and are more clearly skilled and deserving of the money than me." I said "wow I got close to getting in the money! That's really cool" and kept pushing myself to get there. Getting money is something you work hard to get recognition for, and if you give up and resign yourself to a spot below the money then that's your own problem. From there, you have to get recognition beating other people who are also good and that is perfectly acceptable. Receiving money equating to keeping someone playing takes away the achievements and hard work of those who actually worked their hardest to get to the placing they received.
Now, if we had more people entering our tournaments so there was actually enough money to play around with, then I wouldn't mind. We have 15-30 man tournaments usually and that's perfectly acceptable to have a top 3, MAAAAYBE top 4 payout with(if it's like 27-30ish I guess....).
Not sure what else I wanna say or how I wanna say it but I think I covered all of my thoughts.
When I went to my first tournament, I wasn't thinking "oh well I got 4th, I guess I deserve to get rewarded the same as these seasoned players who have been playing for longer than me and are more clearly skilled and deserving of the money than me." I said "wow I got close to getting in the money! That's really cool" and kept pushing myself to get there. Getting money is something you work hard to get recognition for, and if you give up and resign yourself to a spot below the money then that's your own problem. From there, you have to get recognition beating other people who are also good and that is perfectly acceptable. Receiving money equating to keeping someone playing takes away the achievements and hard work of those who actually worked their hardest to get to the placing they received.
Now, if we had more people entering our tournaments so there was actually enough money to play around with, then I wouldn't mind. We have 15-30 man tournaments usually and that's perfectly acceptable to have a top 3, MAAAAYBE top 4 payout with(if it's like 27-30ish I guess....).
Not sure what else I wanna say or how I wanna say it but I think I covered all of my thoughts.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Basically what Kevin said.
But if you really want to get on the money side, Raise singles and doubles entry fee to 10 per person.
But if you really want to get on the money side, Raise singles and doubles entry fee to 10 per person.
DJRome
Smash Hero
i like a $7-10 entry with payout to top 4 better than a evened out split and $5
well, foxy, are you suggesting we make wider splits?
we can do something like Hawaii does (I watch DarkM's youtube channel a lot) where all the people who haven't won any money are allowed to enter their own 'little league' tournament (they do it once a year). Like we could do something like that....maybe every 2 or 3 months. I wouldn't mind skipping low tiers for a weekend and hosting a 'little league' and 'big league' tournament instead (they're still allowed to enter the big league tournament in case I wasn't clear). The little league is usually hosted during the morning and the big league is hosted in the afternoon/evening.
Other than these 2 options, I have nothing to offer.
we can do something like Hawaii does (I watch DarkM's youtube channel a lot) where all the people who haven't won any money are allowed to enter their own 'little league' tournament (they do it once a year). Like we could do something like that....maybe every 2 or 3 months. I wouldn't mind skipping low tiers for a weekend and hosting a 'little league' and 'big league' tournament instead (they're still allowed to enter the big league tournament in case I wasn't clear). The little league is usually hosted during the morning and the big league is hosted in the afternoon/evening.
Other than these 2 options, I have nothing to offer.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
real talk, the part about the MM's seeming to have more weight than tourney matches at the mid (7th-13th place) level hit me so hard. i've been thinking that for the longest, but every time i bring it up, it falls on deaf ears that assume i'm dumb.
i think i've fallen into the group of improved players for the last year who have received nothing.
and who will never receive nothing.
cause i will not be beating pp, dop, yay or l0zr in...possibly ever. so that is a little disheartening. but people at my level aren't moving money within each other because money matches seem to...not happen a lot. at least not seriously. ah, this state.
i think i've fallen into the group of improved players for the last year who have received nothing.
and who will never receive nothing.
cause i will not be beating pp, dop, yay or l0zr in...possibly ever. so that is a little disheartening. but people at my level aren't moving money within each other because money matches seem to...not happen a lot. at least not seriously. ah, this state.
It's a competition, it's not meant to give everyone monetary compensation for their hard work.
Money matches need to happen more too, but that's not something we're discussing here.
I'm fine with raising entry and paying out an extra spot.
Money matches need to happen more too, but that's not something we're discussing here.
I'm fine with raising entry and paying out an extra spot.
Ocean
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Messages
- 3,810
- Slippi.gg
- OCEAN#0
there is no solution. higher level players don't want to get less money because they work hard for it, lower levels player don't want to pay money to enter because they know they have no chance of getting to the level of winning money any time soon.
I wish money matches happened more. they are much more interesting than tournament sets to me. I don't have the money to sacrifice though.
I wish money matches happened more. they are much more interesting than tournament sets to me. I don't have the money to sacrifice though.
DJRome
Smash Hero
yo, don't think u can't beat them. i can beat them, and i will mm people. and, also, people should not need $ for motivation. pride son
Lower level players need the tournament experience though! There are no johns there for them. Getting serious matches vs better players is the foundation of why you spend money in a tournament with little chance of making it back. You're hoping it pays off eventually either in a local or national tourney or in some other way helps you learn more so you can reach your goals(and maybe those goals are monetary, but they can't be initially because that's unrealistic)
DJRome
Smash Hero
kevin, to be fair, u have made money at every tournament except for like 2
bossa nova ♪
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Messages
- 2,876
said kevin the guy who gets FIRST AT EVERY TOURNAMENT.
who usually gets THE MOST BIGGEST $$$ PAYOUT.
yeah no it's great being THE #1 POWER RANKED PLAYER AND WIDELY ACCEPTED AS BEING TOP 10 IN THE WORLD
kevin nanney is ****ING BIASED
hey kevin i guess you're forgetting that WE'RE NOT YOU
(that last one is my favorite)
who usually gets THE MOST BIGGEST $$$ PAYOUT.
yeah no it's great being THE #1 POWER RANKED PLAYER AND WIDELY ACCEPTED AS BEING TOP 10 IN THE WORLD
kevin nanney is ****ING BIASED
hey kevin i guess you're forgetting that WE'RE NOT YOU
(that last one is my favorite
)