NCSU Smash Stacks - Round 9 @DUKE 10/30

[stingers]

2 tourneys a month is perfect. but i play both games so maybe thats why I think that.

 

[ZeldaRox!]

but seriously guys.... we should just leave stuff the way it is.

no need to fix what aint broke.

i mean......keith is getting pretty annoying posting this but I have to say he is right. I don't have a problem with the way things are now. I made an attempt to appease both parties. But it seems like no compromise is to be found. Both sides want to stick to their guns and not try to find a middle ground. So it seems that we now have two camps who are unsettled but as long as they only continue to bicker but not find solutions, we will be in a stalemate and things will stay the same regardless.

Well, i've been shot down trying to be the arbiter. I really thought my solution sounded reasonable. But neither side is willing to compromise.

I've done my best. I've said my peace. ZR out.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

but seriously guys.... we should just leave stuff the way it is.

no need to fix what aint broke.

Yeeeeeep...just gonna repost this...

 

[Bl@ckChris]

whelp, that's why i wanted GIG to initially be a large fest. but everyone who posted seemed to say "i'm not coming unless its a tourney" sooo i made it a tourney.

i want to prioritize getting better. as a state. and i really think there are better things than tournies that can do that.

in my honest opinion, i think pause and play is often better suited for good solid festage for advice and improvement for all who show up, especially the locals. but that could just be how i look at it, idk. but that is also what i wanted GIG to be. a solid fest with good players for advice, where, although there was not a large bracket made for 5 dollars, there could be a heightened sense of mm's to practice and test skill against those you feel competitive with. but that seemed unpopular, soooo whatever.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'd suggest not making a thread for something if you don't want a tourney for it.

 

[stingers]

I'd suggest not making a thread for something if you don't want a tourney for it.

lol are u ********?
i guess all of snap's fests need to be tourneys now...

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

whelp, that's why i wanted GIG to initially be a large fest. but everyone who posted seemed to say "i'm not coming unless its a tourney" sooo i made it a tourney.

i want to prioritize getting better. as a state. and i really think there are better things than tournies that can do that.

in my honest opinion, i think pause and play is often better suited for good solid festage for advice and improvement for all who show up, especially the locals. but that could just be how i look at it, idk. but that is also what i wanted GIG to be. a solid fest with good players for advice, where, although there was not a large bracket made for 5 dollars, there could be a heightened sense of mm's to practice and test skill against those you feel competitive with. but that seemed unpopular, soooo whatever.

But Asheboro did well..

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i still wanted a turnout. i wanted it to be a good melee event. i don't mind it being a tourney, but i still want it to focus on improvement and not just...proving what level we're already at. but i can't really force any of it, and i don't really have a part in much of it.

 

[_Kadaj_]

If your going to change it for the worst (bigger pot spilts with a $5 entry fee)

your better off just leaving it as is

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

i still wanted a turnout. i wanted it to be a good melee event. i don't mind it being a tourney, but i still want it to focus on improvement and not just...proving what level we're already at. but i can't really force any of it, and i don't really have a part in much of it.

You improve from entering tournaments because you can't learn from friendlies.

 

[Dr Peepee]

i still wanted a turnout. i wanted it to be a good melee event. i don't mind it being a tourney, but i still want it to focus on improvement and not just...proving what level we're already at. but i can't really force any of it, and i don't really have a part in much of it.

I see.

Well, put your foot down on the fest idea next time then. I encourage any other TO who feels similarly to do the same.

Like I said, I don't really know what to do on when things should be hosted, but changing pot splits is ridiculous.

Not like Adam and Dop come to everything for Melee anyway. Not like Stongers makes everything for Brawl.

 

[ZeldaRox!]

You improve from entering tournaments because you can't learn from friendlies.

wrong and misguided

the amount you learn from a tourney match is limited at best. friendlies are much more conducive (they have taught me 10X the amount of stuff than tourney matches have). I play every friendly just as serious as I play a tourney match. The difference is, I don't feel pressured and I am more apt to try new things rather than sticking to what I know works. My 'opponent' will usually tell me what I'm doing wrong, things I do that work, etc.

Friendlies are for practice. Tourney matches are tests. You learn more by doing the homework than by taking the test.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

wrong and misguided

the amount you learn from a tourney match is limited at best. friendlies are much more conducive (they have taught me 10X the amount of stuff than tourney matches have). I play every friendly just as serious as I play a tourney match. The difference is, I don't feel pressured and I am more apt to try new things rather than sticking to what I know works. My 'opponent' will usually tell me what I'm doing wrong, things I do that work, etc.

Friendlies are for practice. Tourney matches are tests. You learn more by doing the homework than by taking the test.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I don't mind friendlies being played seriously, and I think it should happen more often here.

 

[ZeldaRox!]

glad you think it's funny. but you can't improve if you don't take it seriously. If I just wanted to do fun games, I would spend my weekends in my dorm and hook the wii up to the common room tv and just play with everyone in the dorm.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

By the way, by saying you try new things in friendlies means you're testing new things, not practicing them.

I do think it's funny. I didn't take Brawl seriously at all and placed above you and improved the 8 months I did not play. Not only do you to take it seriously, but you also need to stick to a character as well, using other characters for different match-up's is silly. Maybe if it is a situation where you're a Ganon main and need another character for Ice Climbers, but other than that, you don't need, and shouldn't use another character for hard match-up's. When I first started Melee, Kevin told me to focus on one character because if you use multiple characters you waste time trying to focus time on each one that you improve little to nothing and you can't keep up with others.

 

[ZeldaRox!]

By the way, by saying you try new things in friendlies means you're testing new things, not practicing them.

semantics my dear friend semantics. try a better argument than squabbling over the vagueness of the english language.

 

[stingers]

smith, zeldarox is right...you don't really get much better in tourney matches, there isn't a single person that plays that goofs off during tourney matches like you would in friendlies. and hey guess what, that "goofing off" is what helps you get better. you wouldn't learn anything if you were playing seriously all the time, because playing seriously entails that you never try to do something new, just stick with what you know works...

 

[DJRome]

once again, contrived data = different data than other pr data and should be categorized as such. brackets are fine. **** friendlies

 

[Bl@ckChris]

if you're trying as hard in friendlies as you do in tournament, you're either lying, or you're not paying attention hard enough in tourney.

i think my limit for real observance is about 4-5 matches. its too exhausting to pay attention to every aspect and try to analyze intentions and proper reactions to the current situation, and interpret what to do in future situations for more than 20 minutes.

that's right folks, i've finally gotten to the point where friendlies are friendly.

 

[Dr Peepee]

There's the difference between playing to learn and playing to win.

Playing to learn has a much more carefree feel to it. You get to experiment with whatever ideas you want to this way, and it's critical for developing your creativity and mixups as a player.

Playing to win teaches you how to apply these principles best, but doesn't offer much in the way of helping you enjoy the game or learn to expand your horizons/develop new tricks.

Each way has its own advantages and disadvantages, but I'd say NC tends to play more on the playing to learn spectrum of things.

 

[DJRome]

i never play to learn

 

[stingers]

i never play to learn

which is why you always beat me

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i'd say that nc tends to play on the more "playing to play/have fun" spectrum of things.

i don't think we play to learn that much.

and i think we sorta play to win in tourney.

 

[ZeldaRox!]

By the way, by saying you try new things in friendlies means you're testing new things, not practicing them.

I do think it's funny. I didn't take Brawl seriously at all and placed above you and improved the 8 months I did not play. Not only do you to take it seriously, but you also need to stick to a character as well, using other characters for different match-up's is silly. Maybe if it is a situation where you're a Ganon main and need another character for Ice Climbers, but other than that, you don't need, and shouldn't use another character for hard match-up's. When I first started Melee, Kevin told me to focus on one character because if you use multiple characters you waste time trying to focus time on each one that you improve little to nothing and you can't keep up with others.

first of all, I hope you're not talking about singles brackets. We had an issue and I didn't even enter. Low tiers I goofed around. My mind was so burned out and I had an important issue on my mind. second of all, that is irrelevant to the point.

btw, I'm pretty sure at Snap's I went easy on you cause I thought you were a scrub (had never seen you at a tourney), and I still beat you every single time. So let's not go down this road please.

Third of all, it's stupid to stick to only 1 character. I main falco; he has a really hard time against pikachu. Its smart for me to pick up a secondary. Most people have secondaries. You are one of the few who I know who don't. Being able to play a diversity of characters increases your chances of winning. If I just beat and MK on BF with falco I know what he is about to do. Counterpick rainbow cruise. Why would I let him do that and give him the near automatic win? If I know his next move, why not pre-empt it and switch my character to MK or another character I feel comfortable with.

moreover, falco is one of those characters its hard to play consistently with. Some days you just have a bad day and cannot get the timing down. Those days, you switch characters.


and lastly, I like a few characters on the cast. heaven forbid I should learn how to play them.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Fair enough, Chris. That probably does need to happen more.

 

[stingers]

secondaries are whack yo

how many secondaries does m2k have
or adhd
or gnes
or tyrant
or dehf
or x

 

[ZeldaRox!]

secondaries are whack yo

how many secondaries does m2k have
or adhd
or gnes
or tyrant
or dehf
or x

well when you play a character that doesn't have a losing matchup I would assume you don't need seconaries lol

and isn't diddy's worst match-up 45? that's nothing to complain about.....until you're on brinstar

I'm really impressed dehf but I read somewhere he has never met esam in tourney. I wonder if he even knows the pika MU. I would love to watch and see how he handles it if you have a link of him playing a top level pika.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

zr u main falco? i thought you mained...zelda.

and although your concept makes sense, it doesn't work until you have a truly established main. you pick up a secondary after establishing your main in every matchup it can reasonably fight. secondaries are for matchups that your main cannot reasonably fight, or situations (ie character stage combo's) that your character simply fails on. if i understand things correctly, if you're a falco main, neither of these should be an issue so trying to understand the complexities of 3-4 characters sounds distracting and challenging and ultimately, fruitless.

imo everyone should have a pocket mk. even melee players.

edit: WTF ZR DID U EVEN READ STINGERS' POST? he had x in that list. arent like...ALL his matchups losing ones? and you main falco!!! aren't like his only losing mu's like...maybe snake mk and diddy? and i thought even the last 2 were even at worst for falco...

 

[Uncle]

Just for the record, I'm not in either "camp". I'm just very open to the idea. It looks like this idea got a bunch of discussion just as Foxy intended, I suppose. Let's look at the payouts for the last NCSU....

Kadaj and Sushi got 45 each. (splitting)
Stingers got 15 (3rd)
PP got 5 (4th)
Shady and Ilove got 5 each (both 5th)

The bracket had 32 entrants. The question is: Are we willing to go beyond the 50/25/10/5/5/5 split? Or is that a good point to stop at? Every player that got awarded cash at this particular tourney is clearly a good player, so it's hard to play the "he didn't deserve it" card in this case.

Obviously, the entry fee and # of entrants will matter for this question.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

first of all, I hope you're not talking about singles brackets. We had an issue and I didn't even enter. Low tiers I goofed around. My mind was so burned out and I had an important issue on my mind. second of all, that is irrelevant to the point.

btw, I'm pretty sure at Snap's I went easy on you cause I thought you were a scrub (had never seen you at a tourney), and I still beat you every single time. So let's not go down this road please.

Third of all, it's stupid to stick to only 1 character. I main falco; he has a really hard time against pikachu. Its smart for me to pick up a secondary. Most people have secondaries. You are one of the few who I know who don't. Being able to play a diversity of characters increases your chances of winning. If I just beat and MK on BF with falco I know what he is about to do. Counterpick rainbow cruise. Why would I let him do that and give him the near automatic win? If I know his next move, why not pre-empt it and switch my character to MK or another character I feel comfortable with.

moreover, falco is one of those characters its hard to play consistently with. Some days you just have a bad day and cannot get the timing down. Those days, you switch characters.


and lastly, I like a few characters on the cast. heaven forbid I should learn how to play them.

The only time I played you Zr was at Karn's and I 3 stocked you 4 times in a row. I never played Brawl at Snap's, so please don't go there.

Now, picking Falco is fine, but one match up doesn't just fix that, it's a cop out, learn the match up, it isn't that bad at all. Falco is the 4th best character in the game. If you're using a secondary for one character, please PRACTICE THE MATCH UP. Same thing with stages, practice on the stage, it's why we are having these fests, right? Cmon, now! The rest about Falco is john. No character in Brawl is hard to play consistently with, please don't john about a Top Tier character, and then talk **** to Metaknight mains, it's sad. I also know plenty who use one character. Dr.PeePee, Stingers (As of now), Myself, Shady, LD PK, Ocean, Twitch, KillerSOS, and that's just in state. Out of state as others like HyRo, X, DEHF(Correct me if I'm wrong), Espy, Jerm, ESAM, etc. Plenty of people use one main, and actually take the time to learn the match up.

Just because you don't, doesn't mean everybody else doesn't. No Johns, learn the **** you need to learn and get around it.

 

[TheLastCacely]

God i hate stupid people.

 

[stingers]

i think it should be 45/25/15/10/5/5 personally

 

[Bl@ckChris]

5/6th is the lowest payouts should ever go without considerable oos entry.

edit: and as long as the pot is big enough where the split between the 10's and the 5's is...worth making it so, i completely agree with stingers.

 

[ZeldaRox!]

zr u main falco? i thought you mained...zelda.

and although your concept makes sense, it doesn't work until you have a truly established main. you pick up a secondary after establishing your main in every matchup it can reasonably fight. secondaries are for matchups that your main cannot reasonably fight, or situations (ie character stage combo's) that your character simply fails on. if i understand things correctly, if you're a falco main, neither of these should be an issue so trying to understand the complexities of 3-4 characters sounds distracting and challenging and ultimately, fruitless.

imo everyone should have a pocket mk. even melee players.

well actually what you said is the same thing I tried to explain to smith and ocean but they found it more entertaining to ignore what I say and hark on 1 line the whole time (why you so mad?).

I do believe everyone should have a pocket main.

And I'm comfortable with most of faloc's MUs. But the pika one I hate. And the squirtle one seems hard from the videos I've seen (I've never had to deal with it myself).

And yes, both of those are an issue for falco. He gets ripped royally on a good part of the counterpick stages (brinstar, norfair lmao, rainbow cruise to an extent) and pika gives falco a really hard time and so do the ice climbers. That MU is listed 45 for falco but that number only applies to DEHF; most falco players I have read say they hate that MU more than any other one. So yes, finding a secondary is a must.

But also, I play this game for fun. And I want to play some characters that are just fun. That's why I work on sheik and peach. Those are just fun characters that I would like to know how to use. And maybe one day perfect them for tourney usage. How many people in NC are familiar with the peach MU?

 

[stingers]

i'm trying really hard to learn the Peach MU because im pretty sure that peach beats ROB and I want to be prepared for it

 

[DJRome]

which is why you always beat me

that hurts

 

[ZeldaRox!]

The only time I played you Zr was at Karn's and I 3 stocked you 4 times in a row. I never played Brawl at Snap's, so please don't go there.

Now, picking Falco is fine, but one match up doesn't just fix that, it's a cop out, learn the match up, it isn't that bad at all. Falco is the 4th best character in the game. If you're using a secondary for one character, please PRACTICE THE MATCH UP. Same thing with stages, practice on the stage, it's why we are having these fests, right? Cmon, now! The rest about Falco is john. No character in Brawl is hard to play consistently with, please don't john about a Top Tier character, and then talk **** to Metaknight mains, it's sad. I also know plenty who use one character. Dr.PeePee, Stingers (As of now), Myself, Shady, LD PK, Ocean, Twitch, KillerSOS, and that's just in state. Out of state as others like HyRo, X, DEHF(Correct me if I'm wrong), Espy, Jerm, ESAM, etc. Plenty of people use one main, and actually take the time to learn the match up.

Just because you don't, doesn't mean everybody else doesn't. No Johns, learn the **** you need to learn and get around it.

I know for a fact that you were at Snap's and we played like 10 games. Don't try to deny it. Karn's? When was I at Karn's? This has to be a joke.

And since when am I johning? Falco is the second best character in the game. I like that about him. However, he does have 2 hard match-ups. If I am playing to win, then I'm going to pick a character that I feel comfortable with those 2 match-ups. I don't talk **** to MK mains. You are a real prick I must say. I have argued for months that MK isn't broken. He odes have hard match-ups. None of his high-tier match-ups are easy wins unless he counterpicks the stage (in which case, he has to deal with their counterpick). I'm gald you can come up with all of 10 names that main a single character. HOwever, in watching lots of brawl videos many of the best players I see know a diversity of characters.

LOL you're arguments step further and further from relevance. I can't wait until you start outright flaming me. you're a funny kid.

 

[TheLastCacely]

I honestly hope every dumb person in the world dies of galmorax disease.

 

[DJRome]

no keith