Naruto

[theeboredone]

So is Tobi using another technique when he teleports or disappears to other places/realms?

 

[Gates]

EDIT: nvm.

 

[asianaussie]

It's because he's

Spoiler

David Bowie

.

oh god i ****ing lol'd something shocking

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I doubt Obito is Tobi, for one main reason - Obito is the same age as Kakashi, and both trained under the Fourth Hokage. If you remember, Tobi fought the Fourth, and Obito was just a child at the time.

Well, according to Kakashi, Tobi is using two jutsus, so it's probably kamui plus some illusion/clone technique.

Actually, Kakashi realizes that Tobi is using one lol.

 

[Lore]

Madara could have been the earlier Tobi.

 

[Gates]

I doubt Obito is Tobi, for one main reason - Obito is the same age as Kakashi, and both trained under the Fourth Hokage. If you remember, Tobi fought the Fourth, and Obito was just a child at the time.

Good point, but isn't it implied that Tobi can control spacetime? Could he have created a FFI-style time loop where he rescues his injured self from the past and takes him into the future where he trains for years and masters his mangekyo?

Maybe I'm just making it more complicated than it is. It doesn't change the fact that all the recent foreshadowing is pointing towards Obito being Tobi.

Actually, Kakashi realizes that Tobi is using one lol.

Oh crap you're right. idk what I was thinking.

Madara could have been the earlier Tobi.

If by this you mean the one who attacked Naruto's parents, then yeah that's another possibility. The Masked Man wasn't killed in that fight though and Madara was brought back with the resurrection jutsu, so when and how would Madara have died in between then if not while fighting the first or fourth hokage?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Hm, let's theorycraft here.

I feel like there would not be two different people just for time / plot related reasons.

Tobi is most likely not Uchiha Madara. Madara must have died at some time, somehow - otherwise Edo Tensei would not have worked.
Tobi is most likely not Uchiha Obito, since he had to have existed prior to the Third Shinobi World War, since Tobi claims - during the fight against Konan - to have given Nagato the Rinnegan, who later killed Hanzo. Furthermore, Obito has no real motive to be Tobi, not sharing the same world view.
Tobi is most likely not Uchiha Shisui. Shisui lost both eyes before suicide, which was prior to the Uchiha massacre. Like Obito, Shisui also does not have the motives of Tobi.

I think Uchiha Izuna is the most likely person to have the motive for being Tobi, but who knows, Tobi may not even be Uchiha although having both Sharingan and Rinnegan suggests blood of both Uchiha and Senju. Then again, claiming to be Uchiha can give you the respect and subsequently fear needed to control others.

Spoiler

Maybe Tobi is the man at Ichiraku Ramen.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Spoiler

Maybe Tobi is the man at Ichiraku Ramen.

Persona 4 mindgames right here!

Smooth Criminal

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

Well Kishimoto said we'll know his identity soon, hopefully this month. I just hope it's someone who has already been introduced into the story & not some random character kishi pulls out of his ***, I would be done with Naruto if that ends up happening.
Maybe it's......*heartattack*

 

[asianaussie]

Persona 4 mindgames right here!

Smooth Criminal

i was going to mspaint a hiimdaisy comic panel CAN I TOUCH YOUR HANDDDDDD but then i cbf'd

 

[Gates]

I think Uchiha Izuna is the most likely person to have the motive for being Tobi, but who knows, Tobi may not even be Uchiha although having both Sharingan and Rinnegan suggests blood of both Uchiha and Senju. Then again, claiming to be Uchiha can give you the respect and subsequently fear needed to control others.

I had to actually look up who Izuna was because I haven't heard that name in so long. It's possible that Izuna is Tobi, but both of Izuna's eyes were supposedly taken by Madara. Then again, we've been lied to about Uchiha history before...

Also, I don't think Tobi's Rinnegan is natural. It's very unlikely that he has Uchiha and Senju blood, and the Rinnegan isn't natural to the Senju clan anyway.

I'm really starting to think that Tobi is not an already-established character. If he was, there would likely be some major plot hole that needed to be retconned in order for it to work.

Spoiler

Maybe Tobi is the man at Ichiraku Ramen.

Didn't HotArms make that joke last week? I'm glad we finally have an image for it though.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

This is all theory of course, just going off of what we know from the manga.

I had to actually look up who Izuna was because I haven't heard that name in so long. It's possible that Izuna is Tobi, but both of Izuna's eyes were supposedly taken by Madara. Then again, we've been lied to about Uchiha history before...

Haha yeah. Let's keep in mind though - Izuna was the only person on par with Madara. Tobi had acquired hundreds of Sharingan eyes before, what's to say Madara didn't take any other Sharingan and give them back to Izuna? (More on that in a later bit)

Izuna would be the most afraid by seeing the dead Madara, since that's his older brother and just as strong - AKA the one who could potentially stop him if Kabuto betrayed Tobi. Also, Tobi didn't know about the workings of Edo Tensei because he never knew about it prior to his death, since the Second Hokage was the one who created the technique and I'm assuming Madara researched this (that's the only way Madara could have canceled the negation of Edo Tensei). Obito and Shisui would also be worried, but again, I doubt they're Tobi through motives and time relevance.

It's referred that Tobi, Nagato, and Madara all knew each other at some point, which furthers the possibility of Izuna and disclaims Obito / Shisui.

Also, I don't think Tobi's Rinnegan is natural. It's very unlikely that he has Uchiha and Senju blood, and the Rinnegan isn't natural to the Senju clan anyway.

Of course Tobi's Rinnegan isn't natural, Tobi had two Sharingan before using Izanagi during the fight with Konan before replacing the dead eye with a Rinnegan. Besides, Madara claims that the order is Sharingan -> Mangekyo -> Eternal Mangekyo -> Rinnegan, and he only achieved the Rinnegan shortly before his death. We have never seen Tobi go past default Sharingan, which could also potentially relate to Tobi not being Uchiha.

However, aren't there implications that Tobi has to have Uchiha and Senju blood? Danzo, a non-Uchiha non-Senju was able to use Izanagi through both implanted Sharingan and Senji DNA transplants, but could only do so for like a minute each. Tobi used Izanagi during the fight with Konan, and lasted for like...a while lol.

Going off this, what stopped Madara and Izuna from faking the latter's death when Madara took Izuna's eyes? Maybe Izuna wanted revenge on Konoha like his brother did, especially after the First Hokage defeated Madara. Izuna would have then taken the dead Madara's EMS (since Sasuke got Itachi's dead eyes and Tobi got Nagato's dead eyes). Tobi then brought the Kyuubi to attack Konoha again, and was right on par with the Fourth Hokage and subsequently defeated, and later helped Itachi with the Uchiha massacre.

This however, does not explain the weakening of Tobi - why we've never seen Mangekyo / Susanm'o from him. Perhaps this is what ties Orochimaru and his body switching techniques into all this?

I'm really starting to think that Tobi is not an already-established character. If he was, there would likely be some major plot hole that needed to be retconned in order for it to work.

There are still a million questions / holes - what is the scroll Suigetsu found from one of Orochimaru's hideouts? Is Tobi who Sasuke refers to as "the one who knows everything"? If not, who is? How would / will Tobi respond when he discovers Madara is still very much alive now?

Hopefully we'll get the answers soon.

 

[Gates]

Haha yeah. Let's keep in mind though - Izuna was the only person on par with Madara. Tobi had acquired hundreds of Sharingan eyes before, what's to say Madara didn't take any other Sharingan and give them back to Izuna? (More on that in a later bit)
[...]
Going off this, what stopped Madara and Izuna from faking the latter's death when Madara took Izuna's eyes? Maybe Izuna wanted revenge on Konoha like his brother did, especially after the First Hokage defeated Madara. Izuna would have then taken the dead Madara's EMS (since Sasuke got Itachi's dead eyes and Tobi got Nagato's dead eyes). Tobi then brought the Kyuubi to attack Konoha again, and was right on par with the Fourth Hokage and subsequently defeated, and later helped Itachi with the Uchiha massacre.

This however, does not explain the weakening of Tobi - why we've never seen Mangekyo / Susanm'o from him.

Like I said, we've been lied to about Uchiha history before. A lot. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be aliens.

Izuna would be the most afraid by seeing the dead Madara, since that's his older brother and just as strong - AKA the one who could potentially stop him if Kabuto betrayed Tobi. Also, Tobi didn't know about the workings of Edo Tensei because he never knew about it prior to his death, since the Second Hokage was the one who created the technique and I'm assuming Madara researched this (that's the only way Madara could have canceled the negation of Edo Tensei). Obito and Shisui would also be worried, but again, I doubt they're Tobi through motives and time relevance.

I don't see how this would be different from if Tobi was any other Uchiha. Madara is historically known to be one of the strongest ninja ever in the Naruto universe. He'd be a huge threat to Tobi's plans no matter who Tobi was. There's also the fact that by Kabuto revealing Madara's corpse to Tobi, he's threatening to expose him as a fraud and reveal to the five Kages that Tobi is potentially not as big a threat as he acts like. One of the biggest reasons he told the five Kages that he was Madara was probably to scare them into acting fast and making hasty decisions about going to war. I don't know how he'd benefit from this since they're still pretty well organized but his plans never made much sense anyway.

Also, you really need to get off this whole "motives" kick. This is the same series where a murderous sociopath became the beloved leader of a major country after the timeskip. Characters in the Narutoverse change motivation at the drop of a hat. It's perfectly possible for Obito to do a face heel turn and become an evil megalomaniac. It's not reasonable, but it's possible.

It's referred that Tobi, Nagato, and Madara all knew each other at some point, which furthers the possibility of Izuna and disclaims Obito / Shisui.

But did Nagato really know Madara or did he just know Tobi, who was claiming to be Madara at the time they were both in Akatsuki? I don't recall any evidence of Nagato knowing that Tobi was not Madara. There's also a considerable age difference between Nagato and Madara, so it's unlikely that they met before Nagato joined Akatsuki, especially since Madara was dead.

However, aren't there implications that Tobi has to have Uchiha and Senju blood? Danzo, a non-Uchiha non-Senju was able to use Izanagi through both implanted Sharingan and Senji DNA transplants, but could only do so for like a minute each. Tobi used Izanagi during the fight with Konan, and lasted for like...a while lol.

Oh, I thought you meant natural Uchiha+Senju blood. If Tobi has done body experimentation (like every other villain in the series except Zabuza) then yeah I could see Tobi implanting Senju cells into his body.

Hopefully we'll get the answers soon.

If by "soon" you mean within the next three months, I highly doubt it. We'll probably see Naruto, Kakashi, Guy, and Bee fight Tobi to the point where his mask comes close to breaking and then cut back to Madara fighting the five Kages or Team Sasuke and Orochimaru doing some homoerotic stuff.

If by "soon" you mean by the end of the current story arc, I agree but I think this story arc is going to keep going for at least another year, probably more like two. Given how much is going on and how drawn out the fights are starting to get, I think Kishimoto is going to start taking a page from Kubo and pad out his story arcs more and more and not draw any backgrounds.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Like I said, we've been lied to about Uchiha history before. A lot. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be aliens.

This just confirmed: Tobi is Aizen.

I don't see how this would be different from if Tobi was any other Uchiha. Madara is historically known to be one of the strongest ninja ever in the Naruto universe. He'd be a huge threat to Tobi's plans no matter who Tobi was. There's also the fact that by Kabuto revealing Madara's corpse to Tobi, he's threatening to expose him as a fraud and reveal to the five Kages that Tobi is potentially not as big a threat as he acts like. One of the biggest reasons he told the five Kages that he was Madara was probably to scare them into acting fast and making hasty decisions about going to war. I don't know how he'd benefit from this since they're still pretty well organized but his plans never made much sense anyway.

Yeah, but even after the Allied Shinobi Forces discover that Tobi isn't Madara, the intel about Tobi's forces are still strong enough to cause problems. Like I said before, Tobi was most definitely faking as Madara is order for fear and authority.

Also, you really need to get off this whole "motives" kick. This is the same series where a murderous sociopath became the beloved leader of a major country after the timeskip. Characters in the Narutoverse change motivation at the drop of a hat. It's perfectly possible for Obito to do a face heel turn and become an evil megalomaniac. It's not reasonable, but it's possible.

True, but I still refer to the time relevance in terms of Obito and Shisui.

But did Nagato really know Madara or did he just know Tobi, who was claiming to be Madara at the time they were both in Akatsuki? I don't recall any evidence of Nagato knowing that Tobi was not Madara. There's also a considerable age difference between Nagato and Madara, so it's unlikely that they met before Nagato joined Akatsuki, especially since Madara was dead.

There's a considerable age difference between Madara and everyone lol but yeah that's something to keep in mind. I don't remember exactly but I recall Madara referring and talking about Nagato with Muu, but I'm too lazy to try and research that.

Oh, I thought you meant natural Uchiha+Senju blood. If Tobi has done body experimentation (like every other villain in the series except Zabuza) then yeah I could see Tobi implanting Senju cells into his body.

Nah, I don't even think there's a character in the series with natural Uchiha + Senju blood, excluding the Sage of Six Paths...and his two sons...wait...

The elder brother of the Sage could maybe be Tobi? But then I'd feel like he wouldn't be afraid of Madara, who came after him.

If by "soon" you mean within the next three months, I highly doubt it. We'll probably see Naruto, Kakashi, Guy, and Bee fight Tobi to the point where his mask comes close to breaking and then cut back to Madara fighting the five Kages or Team Sasuke and Orochimaru doing some homoerotic stuff.

If by "soon" you mean by the end of the current story arc, I agree but I think this story arc is going to keep going for at least another year, probably more like two. Given how much is going on and how drawn out the fights are starting to get, I think Kishimoto is going to start taking a page from Kubo and pad out his story arcs more and more and not draw any backgrounds.

Right. Perhaps Orochimaru will go see Madara and the five Kage and they can all have tea while they wait for Tobi to revive the Juubi.

Maybe Tobi is Jiraiya, who wants to use Infinite Tsukuyomi to turn everyone to join him in his perverted ways.

 

[Gates]

Jiraiya is going to use Infinite Tsukuyomi to play the most disgusting porno he can find on the moon and force the entire world to watch it.

 

[asianaussie]

and god-king aizen will sit back on his throne and laugh, sipping from a decanter of sakura's tears and eating copies of those kabuto backstory chapters

 

[NTA]

:o Where did Kakashi get that eye? O_o

 

[Pikaville]

Off his dying friends who was pretty much crushed to death.

 

[Thino]

the real question is how did Tobi get Obito's other eye

 

[Hot_ArmS]

Doesn't surprise me, he has a whole fishtank full of sharingans

 

[asianaussie]

by this point, im sure everybody has a fishtank of sharingans

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

Still gonna say Tobi is Obito, after seeing Chapt. 597, Ok so if Tobi's MS has the ability to move things to a different dimesion, is it possible he could have moved the crushed side of his body to another dimesion & gradually heal it, how would we know if Obito actually died after the rocks caved in on him? & here's something I'm been thinking about, what if time moves faster in that dimesion compared to real time like in Tsukuyomi, You may be in Tsukuyomi for a week but only 3 minutes have passed in real time, so maybe that's why Tobi is significantly older looking (even though we haven't seen all of him >_>

 

[Gates]

I think the way things are going now, it's going to be revealed that Tobi is actually Obito until a year later when this story arc is still going on and Obito Uchiha is brought back by Edo Tensei and Tobi gets exposed as a fraud for a second time. Then it's finally revealed that Tobi is really

Spoiler

Kishimoto

.

 

[asianaussie]

that's impossible,

Spoiler

kishimoto has long since fallen under the influence of the moon's eye plan, tobi has been controlling the mangaka and when he finally manages to break free and reveal who tobi actually is, he will be forced to commit seppuku

Spoiler

and also aizen

 

[Y.b.M.]

I honestly think that Tobi is none other then Kagami Uchiha. Not only does he have the same hair as Tobi but, his name "Tobi" Take the first 4 letters of his teams captain name which is Tobirama Senju, the Second Hokage. Not only that one of his closest friends be came the 3rd Hokage, Hiruzen Saratobi, the last 4 letters of that name make "Tobi". And let's not forget that he is the son of Madara Uchiha. He's like the only other Uchiha that was around to know anything about the Massacre of the Uchiha clan.

Just a little food for thought. I don't think it's Obito. Obito is dead.... Kagami on the other hand was never confirmed dead, he was only assumed dead...

 

[Hot_ArmS]

whoa i didnt know kagami was madaras son lol

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

I honestly think that Tobi is none other then Kagami Uchiha. Not only does he have the same hair as Tobi but, his name "Tobi" Take the first 4 letters of his teams captain name which is Tobirama Senju, the Second Hokage. Not only that one of his closest friends be came the 3rd Hokage, Hiruzen Saratobi, the last 4 letters of that name make "Tobi". And let's not forget that he is the son of Madara Uchiha. He's like the only other Uchiha that was around to know anything about the Massacre of the Uchiha clan.

Just a little food for thought. I don't think it's Obito. Obito is dead.... Kagami on the other hand was never confirmed dead, he was only assumed dead...

Okay, say it was Kagami, why would he have Obito's eye, what use would he need with a weak sharingan when his clan had much more powerful eyes to choose from & finally if Obito is in fact crushed & dead, how did he recovery the crushed eye?

 

[asianaussie]

uh

what's obito's motivation to hypnotise the world, again?

 

[Hot_ArmS]

kakashi failed to protect rin

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Only thing I can imagine Obito motivated to take over the world is because he is one of the evil Uchiha clan.

Other than that, all points are seriously pointing to him.

Maybe the writer just thought it was funny fans thought Tobi was Obito and are leaving red herrings.

TBH I'm going with the Saying Obito 5 times fast sounds like saying Tobi over and over again theory

 

[asianaussie]

TBH I'm going with the Saying Obito 5 times fast sounds like saying Tobi over and over again theory

easily the strongest theory i've come across, i've converted

 

[Gates]

uh

what's obito's motivation to hypnotise the world, again?

Because otherwise the story would have no antagonist.

 

[Pikaville]

I honestly think that Tobi is none other then Kagami Uchiha. Not only does he have the same hair as Tobi but, his name "Tobi" Take the first 4 letters of his teams captain name which is Tobirama Senju, the Second Hokage. Not only that one of his closest friends be came the 3rd Hokage, Hiruzen Saratobi, the last 4 letters of that name make "Tobi". And let's not forget that he is the son of Madara Uchiha. He's like the only other Uchiha that was around to know anything about the Massacre of the Uchiha clan.

Just a little food for thought. I don't think it's Obito. Obito is dead.... Kagami on the other hand was never confirmed dead, he was only assumed dead...

Very interesting.

I like this.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I honestly think that Tobi is none other then Kagami Uchiha. Not only does he have the same hair as Tobi but, his name "Tobi" Take the first 4 letters of his teams captain name which is Tobirama Senju, the Second Hokage. Not only that one of his closest friends be came the 3rd Hokage, Hiruzen Saratobi, the last 4 letters of that name make "Tobi". And let's not forget that he is the son of Madara Uchiha. He's like the only other Uchiha that was around to know anything about the Massacre of the Uchiha clan.

Just a little food for thought. I don't think it's Obito. Obito is dead.... Kagami on the other hand was never confirmed dead, he was only assumed dead...

My thoughts with this argument / theory.

Where was it confirmed that Uchiha Kagima is the son of Madara? While it's plausible due to time references, I don't ever remember this being confirmed.

Actually, both "assumptions" of Kagami being dead are false, aren't they? The first was when the Second Hokage sacrificed himself to let his juniors escape - Sarutobi Hiruzen, Shimura Danzo, and Uchiha Kagami included. The second would be during the Uchiha Massacre and hell, anyone could've survived. And off of that, Obito was never "confirmed" dead either. Just because you saw a bunch of rocks fall on someone / their grave doesn't guarantee that they are dead.

I don't really base / think of much off of names - seems to trivial.

But here's something I just thought of to throw out there . Why wasn't Uchiha Izuna revived with Edo Tensei alongside his brother? The four strongest Uchiha ever discussed are Madara, Izuna, Shisui, and Itachi. Madara and Itachi were already revived, and Shisui's DNA was too difficult to obtain. However, Izuna was literally the second strongest Uchiha after his older brother, if that was so, I'm sure Kabuto would used Izuna for Edo Tensei.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

Stick that in your pipe and theorize

 

[theeboredone]

More theories please.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'll wait until the next chapter / YbM's thoughts.

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

Tobi is obviously Menma aka Emoruto from Road to Ninja

 

[asianaussie]

i want to watch road to ninja

aside from the fact sharingan illusions are involved, the concept seems fun

 

[theeboredone]

Seems like they have a rather limited method of hitting Mask Man now. There are only so many Mangekyos Kakashi can use. On top of that, I figure this might make Gai a bit more useless given they can only seem to hit him with projectiles.