Morph balls - A 3.0 Samus video thread

[keninblack]

Hey new to Samus, pretty sinked in on how she plays. I used Sheik in Melee but shes fitting like a glove for some reason in P:M.

Who are the best P:M Samus players I should be watching? I learn best from videos so knowing who to check out would help. Thanks!

 

[Kaysick]

Just watch all of the videos here. Dyna has some nice matches.

 

[Kaysick]

Double post, but it has been 10 days since the last post.

If you can, please critique my Samus. Especially you, @ Litt , I like the amount of effort you put into the boards.

1:16:50 - 1:21:00
http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/521400102?t=76m50s
The only john I have for losing is that I was gradually getting more and more sick as the day went on. After the crews I could barely even play anymore. I can beat Double's Lucario.

 

[Litt]

Double post, but it has been 10 days since the last post.

If you can, please critique my Samus. Especially you, @ Litt , I like the amount of effort you put into the boards.

1:16:50 - 1:21:00
http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/521400102?t=76m50s
The only john I have for losing is that I was gradually getting more and more sick as the day went on. After the crews I could barely even play anymore. I can beat Double's Lucario.

Capitalize on your CC options when you do have them, You really need to stop making your approaches less straight forward and bait your opponent to try and counter or go after you first, another thing, you do move around well, dash dancing alright into wave dashes, but you need to use a shield a little more in between the dash dances and wave dashes, missile camping would help make your opponent approach, any good player can react to a super wave dash so dont use it unless you are winning and just wanna style, so really, stop just running in there and trying to over power your opponent, and try to think about what they are trying to do to you as well, and missile camping helps give you time, and slows down your opponent trying to react to the missiles to see how they are going to approach you.

 

[Chevy]

Double post, but it has been 10 days since the last post.

If you can, please critique my Samus. Especially you, @ Litt , I like the amount of effort you put into the boards.

1:16:50 - 1:21:00
http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/521400102?t=76m50s
The only john I have for losing is that I was gradually getting more and more sick as the day went on. After the crews I could barely even play anymore. I can beat Double's Lucario.

I think you could have capitalized on your up-airs a little better. There were a couple times where they were still in range after hit but you N-aired instead of continuing the combo with a D-air. Up-air into D-air is amazing, and will usually net at least another D-air into a tech chase, or an Up-Smash. If they shield once they hit the ground you can land behind them with the D-air, or drop a bomb. Also, whenever someone is inside you, morph bomb is a great punisher. If they're ready, they can shield, but you still have the advantage and a cool 8%. If they don't shield, you can start up a combo with Dair off of the jump.

I would also just shoot more missiles. Besides spamming them, you should pretty much just shoot one whenever you land. There's no extra landing lag so it's pure profit if you were just empty jumping anyway. If anyone ever gives you space when you come back on stage, you should ledge-drop->double-jump->missile-cancel back onto stage. Especially when they're on ground level, it instantly converts it from recovering to pressure and a potential followup based on they're reaction. Or they'll eat the missile.

When Lucario flew past you with the Super Aura Sphere off the edge, it was a pretty good chance to punish and just B-air him to oblivion.

I would fast-fall when you respawn so you can better capitalize on those invincibility frames.

Oh, and spot-dodge and roll way less.

 

[Varia31]

Okay, so, I understand the belief that playing Samus WITHOUT using any projectiles probably wouldn't work against players very well (though personally, I think it would be possible if you played smart about it), but just for fun, I made this video of fighting a level 9 Link CPU without using any of Samus' projectiles.

Spoiler

 

[pizzacato]

Okay, so, I understand the belief that playing Samus WITHOUT using any projectiles probably wouldn't work against players very well (though personally, I think it would be possible if you played smart about it), but just for fun, I made this video of fighting a level 9 Link CPU without using any of Samus' projectiles.

Spoiler

While this is very neat, firstly it's a demo against a CPU, and you're the only one who's doing the adjusting. Every approach was very slow and predictable. If the opponent were to adapt, shield-grabbing would be the most free option. An L-canceled nair would be viable, since it's +1 on shield. If you have successfully conditioned to put your opponent in shield with everyone of your approaches, like I would've done, would be to approach similarly and bait a shield and grab it yourself.

AND THEN imagine if you had crazy non-projectile game and put in missile game, Zair spacing, and yolo charge shots on top of that.

#brokentier

 

[Varia31]

While this is very neat, firstly it's a demo against a CPU, and you're the only one who's doing the adjusting. Every approach was very slow and predictable. If the opponent were to adapt, shield-grabbing would be the most free option. An L-canceled nair would be viable, since it's +1 on shield. If you have successfully conditioned to put your opponent in shield with everyone of your approaches, like I would've done, would be to approach similarly and bait a shield and grab it yourself.

AND THEN imagine if you had crazy non-projectile game and put in missile game, Zair spacing, and yolo charge shots on top of that.

#brokentier

I appreciate the critique, but I posted this up for fun, as I said. And the "slow and predictable" part comes from me toying with the CPU. I wasn't really trying. I certainly don't expect things like this to work in actual fights.

EDIT
Still though, reading what you're saying, having a master close quarters game Samus who combines that with a deadly missile game would be pretty awesome I would imagine. :D

 

[pizzacato]

I appreciate the critique, but I posted this up for fun, as I said. And the "slow and predictable" part comes from me toying with the CPU. I wasn't really trying. I certainly don't expect things like this to work in actual fights.

EDIT
Still though, reading what you're saying, having a master close quarters game Samus who combines that with a deadly missile game would be pretty awesome I would imagine. :D

MOST DEF!

 

[Litt]

I appreciate the critique, but I posted this up for fun, as I said. And the "slow and predictable" part comes from me toying with the CPU. I wasn't really trying. I certainly don't expect things like this to work in actual fights.

EDIT
Still though, reading what you're saying, having a master close quarters game Samus who combines that with a deadly missile game would be pretty awesome I would imagine. :D

If you weren't really trying, then whats the point of posting it up here, just for fun, I certainly didn't have fun watching it, nor do I think many people here would enjoy watching you toy with a CPU. Maybe your friends would find it entertaining, but its neither informative as to how to play samus without missiles (*cough* her neutral game), nor is there anything of substance in which you are doing. The majority of people on here are looking for ways to get better with the character. From a critique standpoint, you roll way too much, EVERYTHING is super predictable, your jab cancels are beyond slow, your wding is pretty much nonexistant, and it really looks like you have no grasp of how to play samus at a higher level because you really dont NEED to depend on missile or projectiles at all to win as her, they just help a ton, just watch hugs from melee, he uses very few missiles, and he is just a spacing god. If anything you demonstrated you understand the attack patterns of a CPU and understand they are not good at adapting to a single strategy, they just kinda throw **** out and occasionally try to grab you when you are in shield. And if thats what you wanted to show everyone, then good job, but im pretty sure the majority of players figured out that stuff back in 2001 when melee first came out.

* toying with a CPU involves actually doing well against them, and displaying a fair amount of control over the game, neither of which you accomplished, so please don't take this the wrong way, but if you wanna post something about not using projectiles, then make a serious video of using the rest of samus's moveset, but if you claim to just be joking around, then why even post this video under a video thread, because you know it will get heavily critiqued. You obviously have put work into learning samus, but you seriously have a long way to go.

 

[pizzacato]

If you weren't really trying, then whats the point of posting it up here, just for fun, watch it yourself, because the majority of people on here are looking for ways to get better with the character. From a crituqe standpoint, you roll way too much, EVERYTHING is super predictable, your jab cancels are beyond slow, your wding is pretty much nonexistant, and it really looks like you have no grasp of how to play samus at a higher level because you really dont NEED to depend on missile or projectiles at all to win as her, they just help a ton, just watch hugs from melee, he uses very few missiles, and he is just a spacing god.

and toying with a CPU involves actually doing well against them, and displaying a fair amount of control over the game, neither of which you accomplished, so please don't take this the wrong way, but if you wanna post something about not using projectiles, then make a serious video of using the rest of samus's moveset, but if you claim to just be joking around, then why even post this video under a video thread, because you know it will get heavily critiqued. You obviously have put work into learning samus, but you seriously have a long way to go.

Down boy.

 

[Litt]

Down boy.

yeah its a little harsh pizzacato i agree, but what I said was not wrong

 

[Varia31]

I understand all that, KLit, but am I not allowed to just enjoy myself? I have mained Samus since Smash 64, and I do know how to use her well enough to get the job done at the very least. What I lack in tech skill, I usually manage to make up for by out-thinking opposing players. Sadly, I've barely been able to play against others on Project M due to only being able to play through Wi-Fi (and bad Wi-Fi at that). Though right now, I'm not really in a position to play against other players any more, so messing with CPUs is basically all I can do. I always use Samus because I love Metroid to death, and because I always feel most at home using her. All I wanted was to share something I thought was fun to do with my favorite character.

Guess I'll just take down the video.

 

[Litt]

I never said take it down, Im just saying it was a waste of time to make, and you accomplished nothing but getting your ego bruised by myself and pizzcato, im glad you love the character, but we have very different standards of what holding your own means, as well as having a firm grasp of the character and her: movement, options, and fluidity of combos

 

[Varia31]

Alright then. Well, sorry for overreacting. I wish I had more experience, I really do. I know tech skill, mind games, and things like that are important. Personally, I think it might be possible to win without having as much tech skill, so that's why I don't use things like wavedashing a ton. Yes, I know how to fairly well, but I digress. Fighting competitively in tournaments isn't my primary concern right now, partly because I'm not in a position to do so, so that's another reason. Though I'm sure actually playing competitively would help me understand the necessity of them. Granted, fighting these improved AIs in PM has helped to improve my game, but it's all I'm limited to right now, so I'm afraid it'll be some time before I can get to your standards here.

So besides all that, I joined the Boards so I could simply communicate with fellow Samus mains and fans of Smash, not really to show how good or bad I am. That's about it.

 

[MonkUnit]

I'm not going to point out specific user(s), but, you know who you are. Samus board needs to take a chill pill and be less hostile.

While Project M is geared towards competitive play, usually in tournaments, there is nothing wrong with practicing and learning the fundamentals, skills, etc. to become a competitive player or just playing against CPUs, with items, and/or playing on banned stages, etc. I know that most of the people on this board are focused on helping people improve and have better performance in tournaments, but there is no reason to be so hostile towards any topic, person, etc. on this board.

Every person who visits or participates in the Samus board may not have the same mindset as you, post something that is already known, or post about sub-optimal things that may not be an ideal thing for tournament play, It's a Smash game, just like any other--there is no right or wrong way to play or enjoy the game.

 

[Anuran]

I'm not going to point out specific user(s), but, you know who you are. Samus board needs to take a chill pill and be less hostile.

While Project M is geared towards competitive play, usually in tournaments, there is nothing wrong with practicing and learning the fundamentals, skills, etc. to become a competitive player or just playing against CPUs, with items, and/or playing on banned stages, etc. I know that most of the people on this board are focused on helping people improve and have better performance in tournaments, but there is no reason to be so hostile towards any topic, person, etc. on this board.

Every person who visits or participates in the Samus board may not have the same mindset as you, post something that is already known, or post about sub-optimal things that may not be an ideal thing for tournament play, It's a Smash game, just like any other--there is no right or wrong way to play or enjoy the game.

preach

 

[Litt]

I'm not going to point out specific user(s), but, you know who you are. Samus board needs to take a chill pill and be less hostile.

While Project M is geared towards competitive play, usually in tournaments, there is nothing wrong with practicing and learning the fundamentals, skills, etc. to become a competitive player or just playing against CPUs, with items, and/or playing on banned stages, etc. I know that most of the people on this board are focused on helping people improve and have better performance in tournaments, but there is no reason to be so hostile towards any topic, person, etc. on this board.

Every person who visits or participates in the Samus board may not have the same mindset as you, post something that is already known, or post about sub-optimal things that may not be an ideal thing for tournament play, It's a Smash game, just like any other--there is no right or wrong way to play or enjoy the game.

Yes there is a right and wrong way to play the game... Just as history is written by the victor, the optimal... aka correct way to play... is written by those who achieve success and not failure in this game.

 

[pizzacato]

Yes there is a right and wrong way to play the game... Just as history is written by the victor, the optimal... aka correct way to play... is written by those who achieve success and not failure in this game.

I'm going to stop you right there. You're propagating the VERY thing Sakurai did not want!!
Holy ****, we may play this game competitively as a whole because those of us that do find our enjoyment in it,.. but there IS NO WRONG WAY to play the game. And as I've said, where else is someone going to get some chat about it? Youtube is a joke if you want to reach people of substance.

You're just wrong here, KLit.

 

[Litt]

I'm going to stop you right there. You're propagating the VERY thing Sakurai did not want!!
Holy ****, we may play this game competitively as a whole because those of us that do find our enjoyment in it,.. but there IS NO WRONG WAY to play the game. And as I've said, where else is someone going to get some chat about it? Youtube is a joke if you want to reach people of substance.

You're just wrong here, KLit.

Ok Pizzacato, its Barbie now, please read and respect my name choice, I made it for a reason, and there is of course a wrong way to play the game, and there is an optimal on the other end, the wrong way would be to jump off the stage and try to kill yourself as fast as possible, going against the objective your opponent is trying to accomplish, and the only end of the spectrum both on the competitive level and just friendlies, there is an optimal way to accomplish the goal in which you set forth when you pressed the start button.... so no dude you are dead wrong there. There is just the fine line between putting thought into your means to fulfill your goal and button mashing, which friendly play is that fine line.

 

[pizzacato]

Ok Pizzacato, its Barbie now, please read and respect my name choice, I made it for a reason, and there is of course a wrong way to play the game, and there is an optimal on the other end, the wrong way would be to jump off the stage and try to kill yourself as fast as possible, going against the objective your opponent is trying to accomplish, and the only end of the spectrum both on the competitive level and just friendlies, there is an optimal way to accomplish the goal in which you set forth when you pressed the start button.... so no dude you are dead wrong there. There is just the fine line between putting thought into your means to fulfill your goal and button mashing, which friendly play is that fine line.

I'm not trying to hit below the belt here, Barbie. Regardless of the content that is on here, you can't decide what you deem wrong to BE wrong. It's not a fine line. It's a spectrum. For many friends that I play with that aren't into the scene, tell me I play the game wrong. I wavedash, I edgeguard, I chaingrab, I missile camp, and I don't get hit. They tell me I'm not a good sport; I should play the game they want to play. I'll play like that for a bit. They'll play me MY way for a bit. And in the end, I had fun both ways. And to an extent they did too. I have fun throwing pokeballs on Pokemon Stadium. If a personal objective is playing without projectiles, then that's beautiful. I like playing without using the grapple sometimes, and only B-reversal wall jumps, and upB.

I firmly believe that there is never going to be a wrong way to play Super Smash Bros.

 

[Litt]

I'm not trying to hit below the belt here, Barbie. Regardless of the content that is on here, you can't decide what you deem wrong to BE wrong. It's not a fine line. It's a spectrum. For many friends that I play with that aren't into the scene, tell me I play the game wrong. I wavedash, I edgeguard, I chaingrab, I missile camp, and I don't get hit. They tell me I'm not a good sport; I should play the game they want to play. I'll play like that for a bit. They'll play me MY way for a bit. And in the end, I had fun both ways. And to an extent they did too. I have fun throwing pokeballs on Pokemon Stadium. If a personal objective is playing without projectiles, then that's beautiful. I like playing without using the grapple sometimes, and only B-reversal wall jumps, and upB.

I firmly believe that there is never going to be a wrong way to play Super Smash Bros.

Once again, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I WROTE.... the wrong way to play, "going against the objective your opponent is trying to accomplish", which when played competitively, the goal your opponent has is to take 4 stocks before you, when you play with friends and casual players, you don't want to just **** on your friends because their goal is to just have fun with you and not to just win, and by playing competitively against them, you are actually playing the wrong way... I mean yes, every thing can be spun a different way and there is no definitive answer to any question ever posed, but you clearly did not understand what I was getting at before and just jumped to the conclusion that winning is everything. I was saying that going against the goal set forth by your opponent is playing the game wrong, because then you are playing a completely different game than your opponent is...

 

[pizzacato]

Once again, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I WROTE.... the wrong way to play, "going against the objective your opponent is trying to accomplish", which when played competitively, the goal your opponent has is to take 4 stocks before you, when you play with friends and casual players, you don't want to just **** on your friends because their goal is to just have fun with you and not to just win, and by playing competitively against them, you are actually playing the wrong way... I mean yes, every thing can be spun a different way and there is no definitive answer to any question ever posed, but you clearly did not understand what I was getting at before and just jumped to the conclusion that winning is everything. I was saying that going against the goal set forth by your opponent is playing the game wrong, because then you are playing a completely different game than your opponent is...

Well then I'm confused. I'm perfectly satisfied with your answer. I assumed you were still trying to dismantle Varia31's post on this thread.

 

[Litt]

No I was just speaking in general terms, Varia understands now after both our critiques how far he has to go to have good enough control over samus to be playable at the competitive level, and I was just speaking in response to MonkeyUnit and yourself. Specifically about a right or wrong way to play the game. Pressing the start button in a match, both you and your opponent have a good gist of what the other wants to accomplish going into the game, and just for comedy sake lets say you are having a game to see who can kill themselves the fastest and lose first, both of you understand that the goal is to take your own 4 stocks before your opponent takes their own. Should you just stand on the stage and keep all your stocks why your opponent kills themselves, your strategy is counter intuitive towards the goals of your opponent, which is going against the basis of the game being played, aka playing it the worst possible way. Bringing it back to a realistic standpoint, there is casual play where not much thought or strategy is implemented to achieve the goal of taking the opponents 4 stocks, so when you force an opponent to change their goal to align with yours, it upsets them, because its you forcing your will upon them, and forcing them to change, which upsets a number of people, and then the game is no longer fun... aka playing the game wrong. This is similar to going to a smash fest with pro players and just jumping off the stage when the game starts because you do not align your goals with that of your opponents, to have a fun exchange and enjoy the game you created within a game.

Therefore, Pizzacato, there is a wrong way to play this game, but there are also many many many many different ways in which to play this game as well.

 

[Varia31]

...Varia understands now after both our critiques how far he has to go to have good enough control over samus to be playable at the competitive level.

Or... DO I?!

Spoiler

... No, I couldn't resist.

 

[Litt]

Or... DO I?!

Spoiler

... No, I couldn't resist.

hahah we know you do Varia, and I hope you do take on the challenge of the competitive scene, we need more sami out there

 

[Varia31]

Perhaps one day!

 

[Litt]

Perhaps one day!

the best advice I can give you for improving is your control over your movement when you play, and making it fluid between attacks, you never want to just be standing around, either continue the attack if you know it will work, or back off and reestablish neutral ground so you don't get punished and comboed

 

[Varia31]

Ah, okay. Thanks. I actually played some more today, practicing wavedashing, among other things. There are actually several attacks that she can chain into a combo pretty well. One issue I have when playing is that I'm also forced to use a Wiimote and Nunchuk because I play on my Wii U, and no longer use the old Wii, so sometimes my wavedashes aren't as easy to pull off, and every once in a while, the Wiimote isn't as responsive as I'd like it to be, or it'll read the wrong command I intended. It's still good enough to use overall, but nothing beats the GameCube controller...

 

[Anuran]

There are adapters that attach directly to the wiimote. I'll link one here. To my knowledge there are not any nintendo brand ones. I mean on the bright side It makes your gamecube controller essentially wireless. http://www.amazon.com/Mayflash-Nintendo-GameCube-Controller-Adapter-Wii/dp/B00BS520SG
Playing on a GC controller is important tho so I highly suggest getting this soon before you start building bad habits.

 

[Litt]

Ah, okay. Thanks. I actually played some more today, practicing wavedashing, among other things. There are actually several attacks that she can chain into a combo pretty well. One issue I have when playing is that I'm also forced to use a Wiimote and Nunchuk because I play on my Wii U, and no longer use the old Wii, so sometimes my wavedashes aren't as easy to pull off, and every once in a while, the Wiimote isn't as responsive as I'd like it to be, or it'll read the wrong command I intended. It's still good enough to use overall, but nothing beats the GameCube controller...

ahhh yeah dude thats because you are first playing on a wireless controller, which adds frames of lag, and i bet you are on an LCD or HDTV, instead of a CRT, you need a classic wii with gamecube ports, and a CRT tv to practice on if you want consistency my friend, both of which you can prob find of like craigslist for pretty cheap

 

[Varia31]

Well, I DO still have a classic Wii with GameCube ports and a nice old GameCube controller, I just can't use them. As of right now, I'm tagging along with my parents while we're stationed in the UK (my father is Air Force), and I got a Wii U for Christmas. I don't play Project M quite as much as some of my other Wii games, or my Wii U games. So my parents have the old Wii to themselves. That's pretty much why I didn't think much of it until I realized just how much I miss the GameCube controller.

But... it isn't really important enough to me right now to warrant needing to swap systems or get new stuff. I could just go downstairs and play the Wii, but out of respect for my parents, they do tend to use the television down there, or play things on the Wii occasionally. I'm usually playing PS3, Metroid, or Donkey Kong most of the time. I appreciate y'all trying to help, though.

Love the Wii U, but curse its lack of GameCube backwards compatibility!

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

I present to to you ESAM--- the hero pm samus needs but not the one she deserves

Vs Squeak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1sLaoy03Qs

Vs Boss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U3K6h9a4fM

Vs m2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxw_Mp5_NjY

Vs pink fresh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJbujOFqhoY

the chain grab WAS REAL

 

[Varia31]

DAT CHAIN GRAB THO. MUST ATTEMPT.

Funny, because I used to use that chain grab against Ganondorf a lot in Melee, yet ironically never thought to try it in PM. Time to change that.

 

[pizzacato]

Yeah chain grabs are real on like half the cast. Reading DI is a little difficult for me to get a hold of, but I'll get it.

 

[Chevy]

I used to re-grab everyone at first, then my roommates learned to DI out of it, and I stopped. This was a good reminder to start doing that again. I'm still not sure if she has any legitimate chaingrabs, but it's pretty clear now that it's not hard to get re-grabs. It's very percent dependent on certain characters which way they have to DI to escape, so it's something that we should study.

 

[Litt]

Ummmm TOLD EVERYONE SO.... MAJORITY OF PLAYERS DO NOT DI GRABS AND SAMUS HAS LEGIT CHAINGRABS ON MOST OF THE CAST UP TO LIKE 30%.... Nothing ESAM did in those videos was anything new or something I didn't already tell everyone about weeks if not months ago... just because he did it, does not make chaingrabs and more or less viable than I was telling you they were.... :/

 

[Chevy]

Like I said, it was a good reminder to re-grab. They are not "legit" chain-grabs because you just have to DI properly. Not going into that argument again though. They quit being useful for me when my practice partners learned to DI properly, so I made note that they aren't legitimate chain-grabs. Nobody denied that there were easy re-grabs on most the cast.

 

[Chevy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwIXSUPP9Sc

Don't let Big Blue fool you, this was Grand Finals of a 27 man tourney. I came from losers, which unfortunately wasn't streamed.

EDIT: The stream quality is apparently garbage at that point, bummer.
EDIT AGAIN: Youtube video now, perfectly watchable.

 

[Litt]

http://www.twitch.tv/olympiasmashers/b/529170800?t=198m30s

Don't let Big Blue fool you, this was Grand Finals of a 27 man tourney. I came from losers, which unfortunately wasn't streamed.

EDIT: The stream quality is apparently garbage at that point, bummer.

Yeah dude, I can't even watch the video its too laggy, good **** making it to gf