Morph balls - A 3.0 Samus video thread

[Litt]

Good point, but what about if you can dair them onto a platform?

Kati, don't listen to phoot here, if you have a good grasp on their techs you should very well dair them back onto the stage, then you can get a dsmash or fsmash follow up, especially in the positioning you had in that match. Be confident with your tech reads, and you should certainly force them into positions when they have to tech... + dairing someone on stage gives you mad style points and frustrates the opponent a bit and force them to be more aggressive towards you (which according to that match, you capitalized on quite well, and this suits your playstyle). And you should really dair them onto platforms, because both samus's dair and dsmash cover the majority of most platforms.

 

[Spralwers]

@ Litt do you think you'll ever be able to come up to our thursday night Smashing Grounds weekly in Framingham, MA? Would love to get a Samus main on stream

 

[ph00tbag]

Good point, but what about if you can dair them onto a platform?

Platfoms can kinda work, because of Dsmash, as KLit mentioned. By and large, though, you can't cover as many options as setting up an edgeguard, even in the very small chance you get into a situation where you can punish the tech. Samus tech chase game from the air is not as good as her edgeguarding. Sure, you can say it looks cool, but it's extremely sub-optimal, given Samus' kit.

 

[Litt]

Platfoms can kinda work, because of Dsmash, as KLit mentioned. By and large, though, you can't cover as many options as setting up an edgeguard, even in the very small chance you get into a situation where you can punish the tech. Samus tech chase game from the air is not as good as her edgeguarding. Sure, you can say it looks cool, but it's extremely sub-optimal, given Samus' kit.

I do completely agree with you there Ph00t, however this is all very percentage dependent, and if the opponent is at a low to mid percent, getting another opportunity to tech chase, is a much smarter option than throwing them off the stage to a position where an edge guard will be very difficult, if not impossible. In which case, covering the next option with a tech read would give you more % and a better chance to edge guard should you read correctly.

 

[Litt]

@ Litt do you think you'll ever be able to come up to our thursday night Smashing Grounds weekly in Framingham, MA? Would love to get a Samus main on stream

Hahhaha dude I've been wanting to get up there, and Id have a decent shot making it far into bracket because Ive played with a number of individuals that have placed high and won that tournament, its just GU is like an hour 20 from uconn and my class doesn't get out until 5pm on top of having an already long day, Ill try make it out there next week or the following, but hopefully I will do well enough in PM at NSA2 to finally get some good samus action on steam and on youtube. I am going to the PM Hall of Gaming tournament this saturday though, and I believe they will have a stream as well.

 

[ph00tbag]

I do completely agree with you there Ph00t, however this is all very percentage dependent, and if the opponent is at a low to mid percent, getting another opportunity to tech chase, is a much smarter option than throwing them off the stage to a position where an edge guard will be very difficult, if not impossible. In which case, covering the next option with a tech read would give you more % and a better chance to edge guard should you read correctly.

Even if you don't fully set up an edgeguard, you still get to the ground before your opponent does, and you have a number of juggle opportunities. By and large, for Samus, that is a preferable situation to be in. That's what this is fundamentally about for me. Dairing someone onto the stage loses to tech in place unless you are already falling when you start the dair. This is even true for Falco, so it follows that it's a really bad place for Samus to be. Since you have to be falling, there's only so many timings where dair actually sets up for solid tech chase opportunities, and even with those ones, there's only so many situations where Samus actually covers multiple options with one sequence. On the other hand, even if you don't get an easy edgeguard set-up by knocking the opponent away, you have ground control, which allows you to set up really solid juggles, and landing punishes with missiles.

 

[Litt]

Even if you don't fully set up an edgeguard, you still get to the ground before your opponent does, and you have a number of juggle opportunities. By and large, for Samus, that is a preferable situation to be in. That's what this is fundamentally about for me. Dairing someone onto the stage loses to tech in place unless you are already falling when you start the dair. This is even true for Falco, so it follows that it's a really bad place for Samus to be. Since you have to be falling, there's only so many timings where dair actually sets up for solid tech chase opportunities, and even with those ones, there's only so many situations where Samus actually covers multiple options with one sequence. On the other hand, even if you don't get an easy edgeguard set-up by knocking the opponent away, you have ground control, which allows you to set up really solid juggles, and landing punishes with missiles.

By in large you just said it yourself... you prefer the safe options, low risk, low reward, and thats fine for your style, Im just recommending to another samus that just because its not always the best option, doesnt mean you shouldn't take it or that you don't have other follow ups. I personally love dairing as much as possible because its hella fun, and its mad disrespectful and funny, because samus is not falcon and shouldn't really be able to continually dair an opponent. But if I have a solid grasp of my opponents tech, im gonna be dairing my ass off ... I dair to dair sir, you perfer to nair, and thats just fair, hopefully neither of us come across a bair xD anyway, back to my original point, its up to the samus player and how their play style is and what they care to accomplish ^_^ both ways work

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Hahhaha dude I've been wanting to get up there, and Id have a decent shot making it far into bracket because Ive played with a number of individuals that have placed high and won that tournament, its just GU is like an hour 20 from uconn and my class doesn't get out until 5pm on top of having an already long day, Ill try make it out there next week or the following, but hopefully I will do well enough in PM at NSA2 to finally get some good samus action on steam and on youtube. I am going to the PM Hall of Gaming tournament this saturday though, and I believe they will have a stream as well.

Yo, post links here, I wanna see videos.

Like, 100% sincere, no hostility intended. I like seeing Samus play and I've wanted to see yours for a bit.

 

[Litt]

Yo, post links here, I wanna see videos.

Like, 100% sincere, no hostility intended. I like seeing Samus play and I've wanted to see yours for a bit.

Soonest you can watch them would be live saturday, the tourney name is Hall of Gaming starts at 12 est time, and I actually got a ton of PM experience last night, learned the yoshi, squirtle, and olimar MU, and kinda ivysaur... so many damn MUs lol

 

[Litt]

Yo, post links here, I wanna see videos.

Like, 100% sincere, no hostility intended. I like seeing Samus play and I've wanted to see yours for a bit.

Hey dude, found out my uncle passed away this morning and I have to go down to DC for the funeral Sunday. Please everyone, do not bother with condolences, I did not even know him that well myself, I am just going there to support my family. Hopefully I'll make it on stream at NSA2 and can finally get some PM samus on youtube for newer players to learn off of.

 

[Chevy]

http://www.twitch.tv/punkpanda777/b/512374603

Here's some more friendlies from my group. Mostly Samus play, starts switching on and off around 50:00.
Things I need to work on: I'm horrible at pressuring shields and need to get in the habit of jab canceling more.
Horrible at dealing with pressure, need to work on out of shield options.

As always criticism is encouraged.

 

[Litt]

One suggestion I can make is that if you do realize you Fed up your up b and are facing the wrong way... at least try to ledge cancel so you dont die by forward smash or just dont grab the ledge because you are facing the wrong way

 

[Chevy]

One suggestion I can make is that if you do realize you Fed up your up b and are facing the wrong way... at least try to ledge cancel so you dont die by forward smash or just dont grab the ledge because you are facing the wrong way

Ya, a lot of SDs that session. I usually aim for the ledge cancel, and end up missing and dieing. I need more precision.

 

[Litt]

Ya, a lot of SDs that session. I usually aim for the ledge cancel, and end up missing and dieing. I need more precision.

Also you need to work on close the gab between yourself and your opponent better than just dash attacks, so spacing is another thing to add to the list; where to transition from projectiles to zair, where to transition from zair to tilts, where to transition from tilts to jabs/jab cancels.

 

[Chevy]

Also you need to work on close the gab between yourself and your opponent better than just dash attacks, so spacing is another thing to add to the list; where to transition from projectiles to zair, where to transition from zair to tilts, where to transition from tilts to jabs/jab cancels.

Definitely, I feel like an idiot every time I dash attack into shield. Bad habit I need to kill.

Unrelated note, is SHFFMC possible in PM? I can't even pull it off in 1/4 speed.

 

[Litt]

not possible

 

[Spralwers]

Hahhaha dude I've been wanting to get up there, and Id have a decent shot making it far into bracket because Ive played with a number of individuals that have placed high and won that tournament

I can see you getting top 5. I'll look out for you during NSA2. I'll keep a recording set up handy in case we get time to do some friendlies.

 

[Litt]

I can see you getting top 5. I'll look out for you during NSA2. I'll keep a recording set up handy in case we get time to do some friendlies.

Hahhaha wow that confidence in both me and our character xD ill try my best

 

[Spralwers]

Getting top 5 at Smashing Grounds definitely won't be easy but I don't think its undoable for a Samus with a strong melee background and has gotten the feel for her new tools.

 

[Litt]

Ohhh I thought you meant at NSA this weekend, I could definitely get top 5 at smashing grounds

 

[pizzacato]

This became the new social thread. 10/10

 

[Kaysick]

Sadly I can't go to my weekly tourney at Chicago this week, but next week I'll hopefully get on stream with my Samus. I'm dropping my other characters except Kirby for her.

 

[Litt]

Ok, well I got on stream a few times last night, even played @ Spralwers in one match, guys wanted to see my samus so here it is
http://www.twitch.tv/gameunderground/b/516825258

 

[Spralwers]

I'll try to have all the matches up on youtube by the end of the day. I'll post the Samus ones when they're up.

 

[Chevy]

I got onto stream at Gameclucks. The match is pretty gross. I screw attacked about 4 times for no reason from flubbed homing missile inputs. Got killed by my tether, and killed myself twice otherwise. But it's not horrible.

http://www.twitch.tv/62bitgaming/b/517362608?t=422m40s

 

[Litt]

I got onto stream at Gameclucks. The match is pretty gross. I screw attacked about 4 times for no reason from flubbed homing missile inputs. Got killed by my tether, and killed myself twice otherwise. But it's not horrible.

http://www.twitch.tv/62bitgaming/b/517362608?t=422m40s

Ya dude, you just have a lot of trouble finishing the kills, your neutral and ledge game isnt bad though, for the ditty MU I would recommend walling him out with ice, and baiting him to approach with the faster missiles and the zair like you were doing. As for getting off the ledge when they are on the platform above you, you can go on stage with a rising up air and that should help you out a bit, or even a rising zair from the ledge.

 

[Chevy]

Thanks for the input. It was really disappointing to watch that again but I did better than I imagined. Tournament went fairly well all things considered. Starting to understand better which stages I want to play on against which characters. A month ago I would never have let a Roy take me to Yoshi's story melee, but it worked out.

 

[Litt]

Hahah yeah, yoshis isnt horrible against Roy as long as you can maintain center stage control, and you keep a lead by abusing the CC downsmash

 

[KMBR]

http://www.twitch.tv/odusmash/b/517666033

I would like some critique on my Samus. This was my first tournament and first time playing someone as good as ether. My set starts at 22:30

 

[Chevy]

The most annoying thing about that set was the commentator constantly spouting about how you had to switch to ice beam. Marth still out-ranges and out-speeds your forward air, it's good, but not the only solution like he made it seem. I'd save ice for like 70+ percent against Marth, wait until kill range because there's a big combo trade-off for the killing power. Also you lose one of your best kill moves, fire forward smash.

In the neutral game I would poke him with more land cancelled zairs. Short hop->air dodge into position->cancel into grapple is probably the best zoning tool you have. This may frustrate him and force him to approach you. Also mix up your missile approaches. You had an excellent opportunity to grab Marth on Dreamland when he shielded one of your land-cancelled missiles, but you just wave-dashed away. Think more about where you place your attacks instead of just throwing them out, watch your opponent and try to predict his moves.

Work on getting back onto the stage too. Your bomb jumps were good, but screw-attacking is pretty much always inferior to grapple unless it's going to hit your enemy. I've found one of the safest ways onto stage from ledge is by dropping->double jumping to the stage->aerial interrupt with up-air->crawl->boost ball. It's very quick and smooth if you can pull it off properly. And you can mix it up with a lot of your moveset after the aerial interrupt.
There's a more comprehensive list of ledge options stickied at the top of the Samus forums.

All and all you didn't do awfully, considering it was your first tournament. Nerves suck, but you'll get over it.

 

[Litt]

http://www.twitch.tv/odusmash/b/517666033

I would like some critique on my Samus. This was my first tournament and first time playing someone as good as ether. My set starts at 22:30

Chevy, you are way too kind, KMBR, you need to learn the Marth MU, and honestly you just got better playered on. I personally have played Ether in melee and he is a heck of a good player, and would never drop a game to someone that doesn't know marth half as well as he does. There are a ton of things you can work on in your game, and you should take the time by watch other melee and Pm samus players as to what to improve on as well as what they do differently from yourself. You definitely need to work on your recovery game and avoiding being hit before or during or grapple, and if you can't sweet spot that ledge at least 70% of the time with your up b, you will not make it far in tournies. You also need to use something called a shield, which is useful for not getting hit by attacks, samus has a very useful out of shield option, called up B OoS, where the first 4 frames are invins, and its a very quick and safe option a lot of the time when someone is pressuring your shield.

THAT BEING SAID, it being your first tournament, you did not do so poorly against such a veteran player, and you do have fairly good of control of the character, your basics just need a lot of fine tuning, keep at it and you will continue to get better.

*Another thing to add, commentators don't know wtf they are talking about, getting an ice upsmash against marth... OK GL WITH THAT... :/ the beam styles are more user preference, and I would say fire and ice are about the same in usefulness in the marth MU, (unless its a stage where with low platforms where you can spam the **** outa marth with the ice missiles, which I would say Ice is better)

 

[Kaysick]

@Dyna is too strong: http://gfycat.com/PowerlessAgitatedIndigobunting

 

[Litt]

@Dyna is too strong: http://gfycat.com/PowerlessAgitatedIndigobunting

Ok well Kaysick, that combo while yes looks nice, wouldn't appear at the highest level of play, because the ganon, first and foremost just ran in with a fair instead of establishing any kind of neutral game.... second, the combo was extended twice when it normally would have stopped because the ganon simple either jumped into the combo again, or didn't retreat once it was being comboed the **** out of. I wouldn't say too strong, but just a severe gap between players in that match. Nevertheless, dynadash i wanna play you some day or at least watch a match of yourself against Esam.

 

[Kaysick]

Ok well Kaysick, that combo while yes looks nice, wouldn't appear at the highest level of play, because the ganon, first and foremost just ran in with a fair instead of establishing any kind of neutral game.... second, the combo was extended twice when it normally would have stopped because the ganon simple either jumped into the combo again, or didn't retreat once it was being comboed the **** out of. I wouldn't say too strong, but just a severe gap between players in that match. Nevertheless, dynadash i wanna play you some day or at least watch a match of yourself against Esam.

Relax KLit, you don't have to over analyse everything. I don't need an in-depth explanation on why the combo worked.

 

[KMBR]

The most annoying thing about that set was the commentator constantly spouting about how you had to switch to ice beam. Marth still out-ranges and out-speeds your forward air, it's good, but not the only solution like he made it seem. I'd save ice for like 70+ percent against Marth, wait until kill range because there's a big combo trade-off for the killing power. Also you lose one of your best kill moves, fire forward smash.

In the neutral game I would poke him with more land cancelled zairs. Short hop->air dodge into position->cancel into grapple is probably the best zoning tool you have. This may frustrate him and force him to approach you. Also mix up your missile approaches. You had an excellent opportunity to grab Marth on Dreamland when he shielded one of your land-cancelled missiles, but you just wave-dashed away. Think more about where you place your attacks instead of just throwing them out, watch your opponent and try to predict his moves.

Work on getting back onto the stage too. Your bomb jumps were good, but screw-attacking is pretty much always inferior to grapple unless it's going to hit your enemy. I've found one of the safest ways onto stage from ledge is by dropping->double jumping to the stage->aerial interrupt with up-air->crawl->boost ball. It's very quick and smooth if you can pull it off properly. And you can mix it up with a lot of your moveset after the aerial interrupt.
There's a more comprehensive list of ledge options stickied at the top of the Samus forums.

All and all you didn't do awfully, considering it was your first tournament. Nerves suck, but you'll get over it.

Thanks for the advice! I still have a lot to work on and will continue posting videos with progress.

 

[KMBR]

Chevy, you are way too kind, KMBR, you need to learn the Marth MU, and honestly you just got better playered on. I personally have played Ether in melee and he is a heck of a good player, and would never drop a game to someone that doesn't know marth half as well as he does. There are a ton of things you can work on in your game, and you should take the time by watch other melee and Pm samus players as to what to improve on as well as what they do differently from yourself. You definitely need to work on your recovery game and avoiding being hit before or during or grapple, and if you can't sweet spot that ledge at least 70% of the time with your up b, you will not make it far in tournies. You also need to use something called a shield, which is useful for not getting hit by attacks, samus has a very useful out of shield option, called up B OoS, where the first 4 frames are invins, and its a very quick and safe option a lot of the time when someone is pressuring your shield.

THAT BEING SAID, it being your first tournament, you did not do so poorly against such a veteran player, and you do have fairly good of control of the character, your basics just need a lot of fine tuning, keep at it and you will continue to get better.

*Another thing to add, commentators don't know wtf they are talking about, getting an ice upsmash against marth... OK GL WITH THAT... :/ the beam styles are more user preference, and I would say fire and ice are about the same in usefulness in the marth MU, (unless its a stage where with low platforms where you can spam the **** outa marth with the ice missiles, which I would say Ice is better)

Thanks man. I have some bad habits that I need to work on from just playing casually for a year and a half. All said and done though I thought I did really well for my first tournament. I made it to losers quarters in a 64 man bracket. I'm going to Civil War VI next weekend where I can get bodied by even better players. I'll work on what you guys told me and see if I improve enough in a week.

 

[CyberMario]

WES
Vs. Sonic (Darky) Starts 1:47:00

 

[Litt]

HugS
Vs. Sonic (Darky) Starts 1:47:00

UMMMM DUDE I THINK YOU MEAN WES... :/ lol, and he got bopped by Darky , he doesnt have good enough control of PM samus yet, he doesn't utilize the missiles properly on platforms, and he had no clue wtf to do against sonic for the majority of the match.

 

[CyberMario]

UMMMM DUDE I THINK YOU MEAN WES... :/ lol

Shhhhhhhhhhh... it was very late at night when I was working on the tourney thread.

 

[Litt]

Relax KLit, you don't have to over analyse everything. I don't need an in-depth explanation on why the combo worked.

You may not need an in-depth explanation, but I put one out for people to better understand how the combo worked, as well as to understand where to cut it short against better opponents, which is very useful info for people that didn't completely understand it.