Chevy
Smash Ace
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- Mar 12, 2014
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Morph balls - A 3.0 Samus video thread
- Thread starter DerfMidWest
- Start date
WizKid911
Smash Journeyman
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- Feb 22, 2013
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- 207
Seeing this makes me want to critique lol. My friend plays ganon so I know the matchup quite well. A lot of the things you were doing could have been punished easily, but I dont blame that solely on you your opponent didnt use all of his tools against you. He didnt use flame choke, and he kept chasing you off the stage to his death. But lay more bombs over ledges was something that I noticed you didnt do. You spaced your zairs well and you kept pressure with your missiles. If ganons offstage in my opinion nair is your best friend. It hangs out for a while and it knocks him just far enough back. But watch out for those choke suicides. Capitalize on your attacking through platforms. Learn to read better on where people are getting up or rolling to and hit them from under. I use uair through platforms but it looked like fair was working out great for you. Im not sure how much ganon experience you have but there are some tricky ass ones out there so be careful lol. As sloppy as he was he probably would have had a better chance if he just used a few more things. Ganon has good sspacing on his attacks and he can be quick if you make him. Plus he is sooooo strong
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
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- 736
Ha, he is my roommate, actually. The play is probably a little skewed because we know how to play against each other. I did really screwed up my edge guarding on Dreamland though. He doesn't use flame-choke much on stage because I expect it and punish it by now. Also, he won the set, I reset it 3-0 and then he took it 3-0.
WizKid911
Smash Journeyman
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- Feb 22, 2013
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- 207
Oh dang. I didnt watch the entire vid. If I can get an updated vid of me and my friend I will show you how intense that matchup can be. My friend has some videos on youtube have your friend check them out. His name is shwick. And please dont watch our very first video -____- it sucked so bad lol. But is ganon his actual main? That would be funny because thats both my and my roommates main lol
Chevy
Smash Ace
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- Mar 12, 2014
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- 736
He's a solo Ganon main, yeah.
Really good set between Phish-It and I, http://www.twitch.tv/guaranteeddamage/b/529652409
04:23:00 is when it starts
DK vs Samus
04:23:00 is when it starts
DK vs Samus
pizzacato
Smash Ace
Good stuff! sucks about the commentary. it was pretty mediocre.
Your tech is solid, Barbie. Keep it up!
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pizzacato
Smash Ace
Also!
http://www.twitch.tv/tourneylocator/b/529148898
Pre-tournament friendlies at DFW PM weekly.
This is terrible Pizzacato playing, I was messing with Dakpo doing stupid ****.
But check out my match with Sethlon, @ 11:41.
I landed a swd dsmash @ 12:54.
and my only kill on him @ 13:14
and some sweet dodge reading @ 26:55
lol
http://www.twitch.tv/tourneylocator/b/529148898
Pre-tournament friendlies at DFW PM weekly.
This is terrible Pizzacato playing, I was messing with Dakpo doing stupid ****.
But check out my match with Sethlon, @ 11:41.
I landed a swd dsmash @ 12:54.
and my only kill on him @ 13:14
and some sweet dodge reading @ 26:55
lol
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No one even uses it
jk lol idk
because it's pretty easy to read.
only times IMockball SWD is if i hit a guy across stage and i want to follow up with an edgeguard. or if i lay a bomb while edge guarding then want to escape (say if im on high %) to missile spam.
otherwise theyre going to know what your doing.
bomb. wait almost about 2/3 of a second then SWD or not SWD. either way, they can jsut do whatever theyre doing on the other side of the stage. if they go to intercept, they can beat you out, if they intercept and you dont SWD, they dont get punished.
only times I
otherwise theyre going to know what your doing.
bomb. wait almost about 2/3 of a second then SWD or not SWD. either way, they can jsut do whatever theyre doing on the other side of the stage. if they go to intercept, they can beat you out, if they intercept and you dont SWD, they dont get punished.
i just find that another missile at long range works best.
if they're at long distance, they can come to me.
if they're at long distance, they can come to me.
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WizKid911
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2013
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Have you read the actual thread we made? There is other options out of it. You can DSWD if they try and read it. You can fake out by laying multiple bombs. You can attack while sliding. Why not try and implement it. I have been adding it to my gameplay not because it is needed but it will add that much more to my technique. Yall dont want to use it? Fine I will be the player to make it a apart of my playstyle.
Edit.... sooo many errors lol
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Varia31
Smash Journeyman
Varia31
Smash Journeyman
Indeed. I bid you good luck!
You guys are going to have to firm up your arguments. I'll write out my thoughts and assumptions.
Assumption 1. Opponent is in neutral.
I said I only use it to escape or follow up an enemy in hit stun. You're saying there's more. So, I'm assuming you're implying that the enemy is at least in neutral.
Assumption 2 . enemy knows what a swd is. I'm assuming this because otherwise it's rather pointless.
Ok, so scenario I'm envisioning :
You are at one end of stage (let's say ps2) opponent at other. Opponent can be either defensive, zoning or a rush down player, it matters little.
Now, instead of just flinging out missiles and forcing their approach (which is usually what we'd want with a zoner like samus) you are suggesting a swd.
Swd has a lot of start up time, and unless the opponent starts say, a warlock punch at the same time as you drop the bomb, he's going to be ready.
You suggest the dswd or faking out with multi bombs.
Both those options end in the same thing. You're still where you are.
Even if he reacts, and does whatever he does when a samus swd's, (be it fire a projectile, charge a smash, jump, or dodge) he'll be back in neutral and you'll be where you started. All you've done in run the clock a second.
I can't see how this is in any way more effective than tossing a missile (or even 2)
Assumption 1. Opponent is in neutral.
I said I only use it to escape or follow up an enemy in hit stun. You're saying there's more. So, I'm assuming you're implying that the enemy is at least in neutral.
Assumption 2 . enemy knows what a swd is. I'm assuming this because otherwise it's rather pointless.
Ok, so scenario I'm envisioning :
You are at one end of stage (let's say ps2) opponent at other. Opponent can be either defensive, zoning or a rush down player, it matters little.
Now, instead of just flinging out missiles and forcing their approach (which is usually what we'd want with a zoner like samus) you are suggesting a swd.
Swd has a lot of start up time, and unless the opponent starts say, a warlock punch at the same time as you drop the bomb, he's going to be ready.
You suggest the dswd or faking out with multi bombs.
Both those options end in the same thing. You're still where you are.
Even if he reacts, and does whatever he does when a samus swd's, (be it fire a projectile, charge a smash, jump, or dodge) he'll be back in neutral and you'll be where you started. All you've done in run the clock a second.
I can't see how this is in any way more effective than tossing a missile (or even 2)
WizKid911
Smash Journeyman
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- Feb 22, 2013
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Its just sooo much sexier . I understand what you are saying. I dont just swd my entire fight but getting as many people as I did at the last tourney I went to gave me hope that its a nice thing to keep in your pocket. I was surprised at how many people I got with charged beams or other attacks but at the same time excited because I seen that it worked. the more you learn to control the swd the more situational it will become.
. I understand what you are saying. I dont just swd my entire fight but getting as many people as I did at the last tourney I went to gave me hope that its a nice thing to keep in your pocket. I was surprised at how many people I got with charged beams or other attacks but at the same time excited because I seen that it worked. the more you learn to control the swd the more situational it will become.
oh man, if your argument was 'do it for cool points' id have conceeded instantly.
do EVERYTHING for cool points till you're on your last stock. then its time for a "pmd comeback special" as it's been known in my smash ring =p
and yea, ive been using it since i heard about it in melee. This is back when it actually gave the 'wtf' factor
do EVERYTHING for cool points till you're on your last stock. then its time for a "pmd comeback special" as it's been known in my smash ring =p
and yea, ive been using it since i heard about it in melee. This is back when it actually gave the 'wtf' factor
WizKid911
Smash Journeyman
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- Feb 22, 2013
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That still doesnt make it any less viable. It can be used to edgeguard, to gtfo of there. To sneak an attack. Did you know you can do it in ball form? Meaning its very hard to hit you, and you can do just about anything out of it. Swd into ice down tilt is a good edgeguard. Along with down smash. It still has that wtf factor.
So again dude, this is what i think:
"It can be used to edgeguard, to gtfo of there."
~ yes, i agree. as i said, i use it to escape or follow up (edgeguarding is an opponent on the defensive, i consider this following up)
"To sneak an attack"
~ only if your opponent has no idea what the SWD is. otherwise, you may as well post a formal letter to them telling them your intentions.
"Did you know you can do it in ball form? Meaning its very hard to hit you"
yes i did.
and ok, so they either avoid you by jumping, or use a ground attack. or block. either or. they can react in time easy.
"and you can do just about anything out of it"
~yes, but, you already told your opponent you inted to fly at them in about a second, so, they are probably ready to block.
"Swd into ice down tilt is a good edgeguard. Along with down smash"
! i agree, using a move is a good edgeguard. and yes, if you need to get across the stage quickly to do so, sdw is a good plan.
again, if your opponent is on d, it is viable.
" It still has that wtf factor."
~ to your ring maybe. my friends all know i can do it.
to summary: i dont think its a good thing to bother with if your opponent is in neutral. missiles work better.
Why approach with a zoner?
"It can be used to edgeguard, to gtfo of there."
~ yes, i agree. as i said, i use it to escape or follow up (edgeguarding is an opponent on the defensive, i consider this following up)
"To sneak an attack"
~ only if your opponent has no idea what the SWD is. otherwise, you may as well post a formal letter to them telling them your intentions.
"Did you know you can do it in ball form? Meaning its very hard to hit you"
yes i did.
and ok, so they either avoid you by jumping, or use a ground attack. or block. either or. they can react in time easy.
"and you can do just about anything out of it"
~yes, but, you already told your opponent you inted to fly at them in about a second, so, they are probably ready to block.
"Swd into ice down tilt is a good edgeguard. Along with down smash"
! i agree, using a move is a good edgeguard. and yes, if you need to get across the stage quickly to do so, sdw is a good plan.
again, if your opponent is on d, it is viable.
" It still has that wtf factor."
~ to your ring maybe. my friends all know i can do it.
to summary: i dont think its a good thing to bother with if your opponent is in neutral. missiles work better.
Why approach with a zoner?
Narpas, both of your arguments hold weight, and for you to start to see WizKids side, watch the old school samus player Phanna and his combo/tech skill videos. Wizkid, stop going back to 2004 where everything thought actually implimenting a swd would change the game for samus forever, even Phanna who would do it 9/10 in melee, tried for a long time to get it to be legitimately useful in game, but the gain in which he acquired from using it was next to nothing. Wiz you really need a better understanding of neutral game or to just go against a really good player to show you how vital it is.
WizKid911
Smash Journeyman
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- Feb 22, 2013
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Yes I know what you mean but cant a boy dream? Yes I have not had the chance to fight extremely skilled players like m2k or hungry but if I get stomped whenever I use it then I will consider your arguement more. You might be more skilled than I am and have already gone through the uses of it forcing you to only use it like you said as follow up or defensively to get out. Im still learning new things all the time from samus. I was super excited knowing all of her options and more. Seeing what you are saying is good to know, but it was already known. If somebody on the boards can give me a new idea on using swd or samus in general then I wont just shoot it down. Im not the best samus ever so I cant make that decision. I have to go through my own trial and error which will result in evolving my tech. It isnt always something that can be told. I have to experience it for myself.
Edit: And I understand that I shouldnt just rush in with a swd. Im not an idiot all the time =p
Edit: And I understand that I shouldnt just rush in with a swd. Im not an idiot all the time =p
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Combo videos hold a certain element of confirmation bias. That is, they only show you clips of when things work.
also, if it's a combo, its like i said, using it it when your opponent is on the Defensive. =p
thats not necessarily true, due to its speed, even if an opponent is running at you, because of the addition of the dswd, theoretically its possible to control samus in this way to make her the fastest character in the game, but I doubt anyone (phanna excluded) is coordinated enough to master a bold new way to use her. Myself, I stick to the basics, but I do recognize there is potential with the swd in this game, I just choose not to use it or develop it.
Oh I know that it 'can' be used.
I'm saying that I don't use it unless I know It's going to be useful to me, and not just a risk/reward.
More missiles!
I'm saying that I don't use it unless I know It's going to be useful to me, and not just a risk/reward.
More missiles!
The more I play ice set, the more I like it. I've forced myself into it for a while to get used to it. Up smash and fair Comes in handy vs my sparring partners zelda/sheik .
well, better to learn basic missile cancle before more silly things =p
pizzacato
Smash Ace
Guys I played a match on stream!!
AeroLink vs. Pizzacato
Here's me facing one of TX's top 10.
I think our portion gets introduced @ 01:03:18
First match went well, but then I counter picked Lylat hoping for some missile cancel game, but I couldn't get enough space created, and it was simply a bad counterpick. Nonetheless, more Samus spotlight!
AeroLink vs. Pizzacato
Here's me facing one of TX's top 10.
I think our portion gets introduced @ 01:03:18
First match went well, but then I counter picked Lylat hoping for some missile cancel game, but I couldn't get enough space created, and it was simply a bad counterpick. Nonetheless, more Samus spotlight!
If that YL is top 10 in TX, TX needs to get their **** together. You still need a TON of work on your movement Pizzacato, everything you are doing I could read before you were doing it after your first stock, you have very little variety in your game, and your missile control is poor at best. AeroLink just had no clue what to do effectively against you, thus the result, but there is a ton you still need to work on.
pizzacato
Smash Ace
Thanks.
(sorry if that sounded mean, I was in a rush when I wrote it, just watched your video and wanted to write it down before I left so I wouldnt forget or have to watch again when I got back)
pizzacato
Smash Ace
Explain the poor variability that's what I'm most concerned with. I know the missile game was poor, and it's usually a lot better. Tourney flubs? AeroLink's pressure too disturbing? No clue, but yes.
The poor variability, is that you are just constantly throwing out a missile into zair, which is pretty punishable, you were rarely staying grounded, and when you were, nothing came of your forward tilts, zero jab pressure, and it basically just looking like a slug fest with neither player puting much thought into a strategy, rather just throwing out good moves at each other until their was a winner. There was very little mid match adaptation by either player tbh.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Aerolink's YL isn't top ten in TX, his Link is. His YL is mediocre, but he's trying to improve it so he plays it against opponents he thinks he can beat with a secondary
Dude YL and Link are pretty much the same character... its like saying, my ganon is mediocre when my falcon is amazing... doesnt work like that