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The point is you didn't give me any advice at all regarding my neutral game. To help someone you have to point out mistakes and tell them how to fix it. Ive always been aware of my bad neutral game so you telling me my neutral game is bad teaches me nothing. I wasn't asking for a masterpiece essay but you could have at least been more specific
No to help someone you have to point out their mistakes, for them to improve they need to figure out how those mistakes can no longer be made, either through their own head or by asking questions. No where did I see from you post after my initial comment, ok well you did say my neutral game was non existent, where would the best place to start be because I am not quite sure myself. But no instead you blew up at me and then wrote me off and trolling. If you want help, ask, if you want a crtique, you will have your mistakes pointed you. Your teacher's didn't rewrite your essays for you, they would hand you back a list of mistakes and tell you to fix them.
No to help someone you have to point out their mistakes, for them to improve they need to figure out how those mistakes can no longer be made, either through their own head or by asking questions. No where did I see from you post after my initial comment, ok well you did say my neutral game was non existent, where would the best place to start be because I am not quite sure myself. But no instead you blew up at me and then wrote me off and trolling. If you want help, ask, if you want a crtique, you will have your mistakes pointed you. Your teacher's didn't rewrite your essays for you, they would hand you back a list of mistakes and tell you to fix them.
That's when any good student would go ask the teacher how to fix them, instead of trying it themselves and messing up again on the next essay. I have been working on my neutral game and it has actually been getting worse lol. I'm doing something wrong which is why I posted here. I guess this isn't a good place to ask for advice. Also, I "blew up at you" because of the overall negativity and rudeness of the comment you first posted by saying the advice he gave me was straight up "bad advice", and I have seen many similar comments by you on these threads so I was like wow I should have expected a response like this..
Anyway I'm done posting here for now
Hey guys, I mained samus in every other smash game and I just decided to pick her up in PM in tournament yesterday
I was wondering if some experienced/good samus players could give me a few tips by watching my set from yesterday. I go Ike game 1 then I go Samus Game 2
Btw, this was an extremely close, intense, and hype set so if u have nothing to do and want to watch a hype set you should watch the whole thing, seriously lol
This was my second day playing samus in PM, and first time in tournament so I flubbed some really important hits. That part should naturally get better the more I play as her. Luckily, I still had her moveset in my instincts due to maining her in other smashes so I still managed to do okay.
As of now, the main things I am aware of that I need to work on are perfecting my movement, more f tilts and u tilts, (I did basically none of those in the whole set lol) and probably more missiles/zairs in certain situations.
I want to get really good with Samus and main her and secondary DK, like I didn't in previous smash games.
Agreed your neutral sucks, use Z-air more, it's broken as hell. You refreshed invincibility with drop re-tethers which is smart, except that you did it when you were in no danger, potentially wasting your tethers if you were knocked off before touching the ground. Use your damn tilts, because f-tilt is just plain amazing, and up-tilt will kill Ness' recovery if he's far enough out. I would do less walking back and forth until being PK fired in the back of the head, lol. Learn to power-shield or SDI out of PK fire specifically. I would try homing missiles on the way up when you're doing full hop double missiles. And Ness can easily escape re-grabs unless he DIs away, so learn to recognize that.
Also why do all the DK players play Samus now? You're all cramping my style.
1. Congratulations on that tournament! 2. You seem afraid of going out to edge guard Ganon most times. You got more confident in the second set, but you'd be surprised how much just holding on to the ledge works wonders. At least in my experience. :3 I'd love to hear what your thoughts on it are. You opted for uptilt guard more so than just going out. Also, great job with bomb traps at the ledge, but I really feel like you could get more out of it then laying a second one, or trying to land an uptilt from the pop-up. Just my 2 cents I'd love to hear your comments though!
1. Congratulations on that tournament! 2. You seem afraid of going out to edge guard Ganon most times. You got more confident in the second set, but you'd be surprised how much just holding on to the ledge works wonders. At least in my experience. :3 I'd love to hear what your thoughts on it are. You opted for uptilt guard more so than just going out. Also, great job with bomb traps at the ledge, but I really feel like you could get more out of it then laying a second one, or trying to land an uptilt from the pop-up. Just my 2 cents I'd love to hear your comments though!
Thank you, and yeah I could definitely edge-guard a little better. In friendlies, I often get grabbed by his side-B or up-B going for close ledge-hogs so I have to recognize better when to go out and when to stay on stage. I should really go out and D-air after dropping a bomb on his head, but I haven't really incorporated that play into my game yet, so I'm a bit wary of trying it out in Grand Finals. Thank you for the feedback.
Well I normally don't put my sets up here b/c Im lazy, but here is a set against phish-it from this weekend, Game 1 he went ganon, game 2 Bowser, and game 3 DK. Worth a watch, especially game 1, I zero to death ganon on the last stock
Lol not strange at all, most smashers are rather ignorant, but the melee ones have had 13 years to hone their skills and back up their stupidity with practice and tech skill, PM kids still quite arent there yet.
(No WIzzy didn't ask me to take the stock when I accidently paused trying to SDI with the C stick, but I threw the stock away anyway, those are the rules)
when flicking upward on the c stick my palm brushed over the start button on the way up :'( and thanks for the compliment about knowing when to go in to strike.
Also, everyone the retreating morphball crawl is mad useful in the sonic MU, b/c you can dtilt at anytime, or shield then up b OoS, i finally have a good grasp of the MU and give me another set against wizzy and the result may have been different.
I got a lot of good ideas from your video Barbie, especially the bombs and use of platforms. Good effort in the Sonic matchup; I personally think it's one of Samus' worst due to how easily he can get in and punish mistakes in neutral, along with stuff like upb -> uair to take advantage of Samus' floatiness.
I got a lot of good ideas from your video Barbie, especially the bombs and use of platforms. Good effort in the Sonic matchup; I personally think it's one of Samus' worst due to how easily he can get in and punish mistakes in neutral, along with stuff like upb -> uair to take advantage of Samus' floatiness.
Glad my match helped you out a bit, also when you are retreating away from sonics throws, be sure to fast fall up air, it covers anything he can do to you besides fair, and even then he wouldnt be able to get to where you are and still be in a position to attack.
Yeah really good patience man. Definitely cobra strike worthy. Your punish game is on point, and should be better next time you face him.
Although.. I think your shield game, or the absence of holding shield in general, was what cost you the set here. It wasn't bad! No way! But where were the UpB-OoS? In the situations where you released your shield would've been great opportunities. I saw a lot of wavedash-OoS but it worked against you more than it did for you. But I believe if that's what you improve upon, it WILL show. Conversions will be more common for you, and you can lead more punish opportunities, which you are quite handy with.
Also, no Zairs?
I know you didn't ask for my input, but I'd like to know why you opted for those options. I'm mainly critiquing this for my own benefit.
By pressure, I mean Wizzy is up in your grill limiting your options
GAME 1 0:45 - wavedash-OoS to close in and jab -> Dtilt (not pressured) *hit confirm* 0:50 - wd-oos reading an aerial approach and Dsmash (not pressured) *hit confirm* 0:53 - wd-oos to close in and Ftilt (not pressured) *hit confirm* 1:00 - wd-oos to jab -> Dtilt (not pressured) *hit confirm* 1:12 - roll-oos on a platform to jab (pressured) *punished* 1:52 - air dodge-oos cross up - to shield -> wd-oos to dash attack (pressured) *hit confirm* 2:33 - shield-drop to shield (not pressured) *punished* 3:13 - shield-grab (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 3:19 - shield release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 3:27 - shield-grab (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 3:34 - shield release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure*
GAME 2 4:15 - wd-oos to Usmash (pressured) *bad hit confirm* *punished* 4:44 - wd-oos avoiding grab -> dash-attack (pressured) *hit confirm* 4:56 - shield poke *doesn't count, but could've angled* 5:19 - shield release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 5:24 - not really shield pressure but GREAT TECH -> UPB! 5:25 - wd-oos to Fsmash (pressured) *punished* 5:40 - wd-oos to crouch-cancel (pressured) *semi-punished* [wd-oos to shield would've been a great option] 6:07 - shield-drop to roll-oos (pressured) *return to neutral, but hit confirm with Ftilt* 6:13 - wd-oos (pressured) *avoids hits, but punished for not respecting pressure* 6:21 - roll-oos (pressured) *return to neutral, but hit confirm with Ftilt* 6:27 - wd-oos (pressured) *avoids hits, but punished for not respecting pressure* 6:44- wd-oos (pressured) *avoids hits, but punished for not respecting pressure* 7:13 - wd-oos (pressured) *return to neutral* 7:15 - shield poke *doesn't count, but could've angled* 7:47 - shield-release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 8:02 - sidestep-oos (pressured) *punished* *solid option but it was read* 8:13 - sidestep-oos -> sidestep-oos -> shield-drop -> Uair (pressured) *avoids 3 grabs, and hit confirms* 8:21 - wd-oos (pressured) *punished* [this worked at 4:44; so a dash grab can be avoided but a standing grab cannot] 8:32 - wd-oos (pressured) *return to neutral* 8:33 - wd-oos (pressured) *return to neutral* 8:34 - wd-oos (pressured) *hit confirm*
Yeah really good patience man. Definitely cobra strike worthy. Your punish game is on point, and should be better next time you face him.
Although.. I think your shield game, or the absence of holding shield in general, was what cost you the set here. It wasn't bad! No way! But where were the UpB-OoS? In the situations where you released your shield would've been great opportunities. I saw a lot of wavedash-OoS but it worked against you more than it did for you. But I believe if that's what you improve upon, it WILL show. Conversions will be more common for you, and you can lead more punish opportunities, which you are quite handy with.
Also, no Zairs?
I know you didn't ask for my input, but I'd like to know why you opted for those options. I'm mainly critiquing this for my own benefit.
By pressure, I mean Wizzy is up in your grill limiting your options
GAME 1 0:45 - wavedash-OoS to close in and jab -> Dtilt (not pressured) *hit confirm* 0:50 - wd-oos reading an aerial approach and Dsmash (not pressured) *hit confirm* 0:53 - wd-oos to close in and Ftilt (not pressured) *hit confirm* 1:00 - wd-oos to jab -> Dtilt (not pressured) *hit confirm* 1:12 - roll-oos on a platform to jab (pressured) *punished* 1:52 - air dodge-oos cross up - to shield -> wd-oos to dash attack (pressured) *hit confirm* 2:33 - shield-drop to shield (not pressured) *punished* 3:13 - shield-grab (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 3:19 - shield release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 3:27 - shield-grab (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 3:34 - shield release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure*
GAME 2 4:15 - wd-oos to Usmash (pressured) *bad hit confirm* *punished* 4:44 - wd-oos avoiding grab -> dash-attack (pressured) *hit confirm* 4:56 - shield poke *doesn't count, but could've angled* 5:19 - shield release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 5:24 - not really shield pressure but GREAT TECH -> UPB! 5:25 - wd-oos to Fsmash (pressured) *punished* 5:40 - wd-oos to crouch-cancel (pressured) *semi-punished* [wd-oos to shield would've been a great option] 6:07 - shield-drop to roll-oos (pressured) *return to neutral, but hit confirm with Ftilt* 6:13 - wd-oos (pressured) *avoids hits, but punished for not respecting pressure* 6:21 - roll-oos (pressured) *return to neutral, but hit confirm with Ftilt* 6:27 - wd-oos (pressured) *avoids hits, but punished for not respecting pressure* 6:44- wd-oos (pressured) *avoids hits, but punished for not respecting pressure* 7:13 - wd-oos (pressured) *return to neutral* 7:15 - shield poke *doesn't count, but could've angled* 7:47 - shield-release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 8:02 - sidestep-oos (pressured) *punished* *solid option but it was read* 8:13 - sidestep-oos -> sidestep-oos -> shield-drop -> Uair (pressured) *avoids 3 grabs, and hit confirms* 8:21 - wd-oos (pressured) *punished* [this worked at 4:44; so a dash grab can be avoided but a standing grab cannot] 8:32 - wd-oos (pressured) *return to neutral* 8:33 - wd-oos (pressured) *return to neutral* 8:34 - wd-oos (pressured) *hit confirm*
Playing sonic is like playing falcon, the neutral is going to be on their terms and you need to be realtively open to do something at all times, if you can get out missiles, great, if not then dont try too much, Zair is a big commitment against fast characters and if you miss they can punish it. I honestly just switched from melee doubles and I missed a ton of Up b OoS from that, and its pretty late so ill go over that spoiler tomorrow, it looks like you did a lot of work to analyze it.
I agree, Zair is a commitment if it's an approach. Use it for pressure and retreat your zairs. I think that would be the best use of it. But I understand.
I agree, Zair is a commitment if it's an approach. Use it for pressure and retreat your zairs. I think that would be the best use of it. But I understand.
Played in a PM tourney, and today boy did I find out a fatal flaw in the sonic and ditty MU, all samus has to do to ledge guard ditty is jump off nair and it pretty much covers everything, and 2004 samus strat works against sonic... just spam down b and bomb jump on the ground backwards and it takes away every approach sonic has besides fair... :/
No like legit the bombs outpriortize the majority of sonics moves and he just keeps taking damage, very few safe ways to approach samus, and if they spin attack past your shield, you can just Bomb OoS and retreat the other way continually bombing.
Yeah really good patience man. Definitely cobra strike worthy. Your punish game is on point, and should be better next time you face him.
Although.. I think your shield game, or the absence of holding shield in general, was what cost you the set here. It wasn't bad! No way! But where were the UpB-OoS? In the situations where you released your shield would've been great opportunities. I saw a lot of wavedash-OoS but it worked against you more than it did for you. But I believe if that's what you improve upon, it WILL show. Conversions will be more common for you, and you can lead more punish opportunities, which you are quite handy with.
Also, no Zairs?
I know you didn't ask for my input, but I'd like to know why you opted for those options. I'm mainly critiquing this for my own benefit.
By pressure, I mean Wizzy is up in your grill limiting your options
GAME 1 0:45 - wavedash-OoS to close in and jab -> Dtilt (not pressured) *hit confirm* 0:50 - wd-oos reading an aerial approach and Dsmash (not pressured) *hit confirm* 0:53 - wd-oos to close in and Ftilt (not pressured) *hit confirm* 1:00 - wd-oos to jab -> Dtilt (not pressured) *hit confirm* 1:12 - roll-oos on a platform to jab (pressured) *punished* 1:52 - air dodge-oos cross up - to shield -> wd-oos to dash attack (pressured) *hit confirm* 2:33 - shield-drop to shield (not pressured) *punished* 3:13 - shield-grab (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 3:19 - shield release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 3:27 - shield-grab (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 3:34 - shield release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure*
GAME 2 4:15 - wd-oos to Usmash (pressured) *bad hit confirm* *punished* 4:44 - wd-oos avoiding grab -> dash-attack (pressured) *hit confirm* 4:56 - shield poke *doesn't count, but could've angled* 5:19 - shield release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 5:24 - not really shield pressure but GREAT TECH -> UPB! 5:25 - wd-oos to Fsmash (pressured) *punished* 5:40 - wd-oos to crouch-cancel (pressured) *semi-punished* [wd-oos to shield would've been a great option] 6:07 - shield-drop to roll-oos (pressured) *return to neutral, but hit confirm with Ftilt* 6:13 - wd-oos (pressured) *avoids hits, but punished for not respecting pressure* 6:21 - roll-oos (pressured) *return to neutral, but hit confirm with Ftilt* 6:27 - wd-oos (pressured) *avoids hits, but punished for not respecting pressure* 6:44- wd-oos (pressured) *avoids hits, but punished for not respecting pressure* 7:13 - wd-oos (pressured) *return to neutral* 7:15 - shield poke *doesn't count, but could've angled* 7:47 - shield-release (pressured) *punished, for not respecting pressure* 8:02 - sidestep-oos (pressured) *punished* *solid option but it was read* 8:13 - sidestep-oos -> sidestep-oos -> shield-drop -> Uair (pressured) *avoids 3 grabs, and hit confirms* 8:21 - wd-oos (pressured) *punished* [this worked at 4:44; so a dash grab can be avoided but a standing grab cannot] 8:32 - wd-oos (pressured) *return to neutral* 8:33 - wd-oos (pressured) *return to neutral* 8:34 - wd-oos (pressured) *hit confirm*
Ok to go over a few of these so you can get an idea of what was going through my mind, I dont have time for every one, but will 5-10 be good enough?
First at 45 seconds, I go for a jab down tilt first, jab being one samus's fastest moves which I can pressure with, but I threw out the D tilt afterwards to catch the jump or grab OoS most people do after the first jab.
At 50 second, I could tell he was agitated and started up the spin attack, which means he was going for some kind of commitment afterward exhausting a his movement choices
at 53 seconds, wizzy already got caught for a bigger commitment, so I was expecting a jump out of the sonic dash roll thing and all I had to do was stay just far enough away to land a quick ftilt.
at a minute and 3 second, if you hit confirm with a jab in PM, you can even get a foward smash, but I wanted wizzy more on stage to do more damage before going for a kill against sonic.
minute 12, was supposed to be a wd OoS into a pivot jab into platform drop fair or downsmash if I got the hitconfirm on the jab.
1:55 I just like to throw dash attack in every once and a while after I dont use them for a good part of the match to keep my opponent honest and get a free hit they weren't expecting
2:33, was supposed to be a nair shield drop, but didn't think I had the drop and didnt react in time
3:13, I should have just no impact landed and shielded, or new option ive been trying out jump off ledge, immediately air dodge into zair
3:19, I should have just Up Bed OoS here because it would have clipped him, but I wasnt sure how far sonic goes after he crosses up your shield and I was afraid of those up air chains, if anything I should have just Bomb OoS Retreated after each time he crossed up my shield
Ok to go over a few of these so you can get an idea of what was going through my mind, I dont have time for every one, but will 5-10 be good enough?
First at 45 seconds, I go for a jab down tilt first, jab being one samus's fastest moves which I can pressure with, but I threw out the D tilt afterwards to catch the jump or grab OoS most people do after the first jab.
At 50 second, I could tell he was agitated and started up the spin attack, which means he was going for some kind of commitment afterward exhausting a his movement choices
at 53 seconds, wizzy already got caught for a bigger commitment, so I was expecting a jump out of the sonic dash roll thing and all I had to do was stay just far enough away to land a quick ftilt.
at a minute and 3 second, if you hit confirm with a jab in PM, you can even get a foward smash, but I wanted wizzy more on stage to do more damage before going for a kill against sonic.
minute 12, was supposed to be a wd OoS into a pivot jab into platform drop fair or downsmash if I got the hitconfirm on the jab.
1:55 I just like to throw dash attack in every once and a while after I dont use them for a good part of the match to keep my opponent honest and get a free hit they weren't expecting
2:33, was supposed to be a nair shield drop, but didn't think I had the drop and didnt react in time
3:13, I should have just no impact landed and shielded, or new option ive been trying out jump off ledge, immediately air dodge into zair
3:19, I should have just Up Bed OoS here because it would have clipped him, but I wasnt sure how far sonic goes after he crosses up your shield and I was afraid of those up air chains, if anything I should have just Bomb OoS Retreated after each time he crossed up my shield