Metamorphosis: The Universal Yoshi Matchup Discussion Thread

[bigman40]

I like lucas and kirby (depends on the player and how campy they are).

It always depends on the player. However, they're naturally campy and super boring.

 

[Delta-cod]

Then you like non campy Lucas and Kirby.

They are the most boring MU I have ever encountered. SO MUCH CAMP. SO LITTLE GETS DONE.

 

[Deleted member]

No lucas is always fun.
Kirby i meant it depends.
Like
its fun if they dont just spam grab.

 

[Delta-cod]

I'd prefer a grab spamming Kirby. It beats the air hovering and Bair attempting Kirby. MOST BORING THING EVER.

Also, a Lucas that's making sure to approach without risk is going to take a long time to beat. I had a match that degenerated into WB PKF and Pivot Grab/Egg camping. Took forever.

 

[Deleted member]

Im glad you had a match that went that way, i had a match where i 3 stocked a MK and he just stood still.
But thats not how all yoshi vs MK matches go

:D

 

[bigman40]

Yeah, but you quit Yoshi so there's no point in thinking about your past. So get over it, and go talk to sheik mains about getting your game better nub.

 

[hadesblade]

Yeah, but you quit Yoshi so there's no point in thinking about your past. So get over it, and go talk to sheik mains about getting your game better nub.

I'm pretty sure stocky already dropped sheik...

 

[Deleted member]

Nope.
I main shiek.
I just dont really wanna go to shiek boards ima develop my own style and stuff based off observations not boards.

 

[auroreon]

Yoshi boards are just too much fun to leave huh? =D

 

[Airborne]

Nope.
I main shiek.
I just dont really wanna go to shiek boards ima develop my own style and stuff based off observations not boards.

i like the sound of that. goin' armada style, eh? well without being godly at melee...

edit: posting my list soon.

 

[Yikarur]

lol 50% of this thread is about the IC MU, It had been better if it was in the IC Match up Thread.
whatever

Meta Knight - Disadv.
Snake - Disadv.
Wario - Disadv.
Falco - Disadv.
Diddy Kong - Disadv.
King Dedede - Disadv (Hate the fact he never dies =P)
Marth - Disadv
Pikachu - Disadv. (slightly?)
Olimar - ? (We beat every attack of him with Nair but I still didn't play one )
Ice Climbers - ?
R.O.B. - Even
Kirby - Disadv.
Lucario - Disadv.
Zero Suit Samus - ?
Toon Link - Disadv
Pit - Hate this Match-Up, but I think its personal.
Donkey Kong - disadv
Peach - Disadv. (When I play against my crew Peach the battles last eternities lol)
Mr. Game And Watch - Disadv.
Luigi - Slightly Disadv.
Fox - ?
Wolf - Disadv.
Sonic - ?
Sheik - ?
Bowser - ?
Zelda - disadv.
Pokémon Trainer - adv.
Ike - Disadv (but not much)
Lucas - Even or slightly advantage
Mario - Disadv.
Ness - Even
Yoshi - I hate this MU =P
Samus - Disadv.
Jigglypuff - Adv.
Captain Falcon - Adv.
Link - Slightly Disadv. or Even.
Ganondorf - Adv.


The Main Problem is that germany has a lot of charakters barely in use (Olimar has a single Main, Warios are nearly all horrible and many more =P)

 

[hadesblade]

nair doesn't beat olis grab or tilts...

 

[Delta-cod]

Im glad you had a match that went that way, i had a match where i 3 stocked a MK and he just stood still.
But thats not how all yoshi vs MK matches go

:D

My point being that, if the player doesn't just run into the **** and you don't run into theirs, the match lasts eternities.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

The more I read this thread, the more boring Brawl sounds to me

 

[bigman40]

The more I read this thread, the more boring Brawl sounds to me

The world is camping these days.

 

[Airborne]

The world is camping these days.

yep. every new game is permitting it to let people exploit.... actually, L4D2 is trying to completely revamp their mechanics that they had in their prequel because of camping..... so.... yay for valve?

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

yep. every new game is permitting it to let people exploit.... actually, L4D2 is trying to completely revamp their mechanics that they had in their prequel because of camping..... so.... yay for valve?

If what you say is true, the Tank might actually be intimidating and useful again

 

[Airborne]

If what you say is true, the Tank might actually be intimidating and useful again

nonono, even better:

the charger takes his one big arm to pick up a survivor to slam them on the ground repeatedly like a toddler trying to make his stuffed animal hop like abunny.

IT'S ****ING HILARIOUS

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

I know about the charger already

but what about the tank

 

[.Marik]

Okay, back on Brawl again please.

 

[.Marik]

Obligatory bump for justice.

Come on, get talking people. We've probably only discussed approximately 5 matchups.

* Edit* Edited the OP and topic title by the way.

 

[Deleted member]

Sheik vs yoshi is like even i think.
Its like really annoying for yoshi, but playing it as shiek made me think like "wow this is a gay *** matchup for shiek"

So i think its even

 

[Shiri]

I just swing until I hit her; all Sheik really has is tilt and jab. o_0

 

[Deleted member]

False.
10burntsocksmainsshieknowandwonttakeurcrap
:D

 

[.Marik]

Please go into detail?

I also think it's 50:50 or possibly 55:45 Sheik's favour because of gay projectiles.

I've hardly ever faced Shieks, so I don't know too much about this matchup.

 

[Delta-cod]

Fairly even. They don't really shut each other down nor do they have anything over each other. If it went one way, I'd put it at Yoshi's advantage simply because Sheik can't kill Yoshi very well.

 

[Poltergust]

Unless the Sheik player decides to change into Zelda, of course (which is what they'll always be doing anyways).

 

[.Marik]

Why would they change into Zelda?

A fairly knowledgable Zelda player will probably realize we counter Zelda 60:40 or 55:45.

Sheik can deal with us in a more effective way.

 

[Poltergust]

...We don't counter Zelda. At all. She counters us. >_>

 

[.Marik]

Maybe you should look at the lists everyone has posted?

Most people said "Advantage".

Zelda just can't deal with Yoshi for some reason, Yoshi shuts her down and punishes Zelda's absurd amount of laggy moves that have incredibly slow cooldown lag.

Her kill power is insane, though.

 

[Poltergust]

Exactly how would Yoshi shut Zelda down? Zelda has a lot of disjointed attacks; Yoshi has none. She mostly has us beat on the ground with her smashes and d-tilt (although we do beat her in the air), and both characters can't really camp each other, so it is a toss-up as to who approaches who. If Yoshi approaches, then he'll have a tough time getting through Zelda's defensive moves. If Zelda feels the need to approach, she can do so with Din's Fire and such, or she can just look for an opportunity to change into Sheik (remember, we have to treat this as an Zelda/Sheik match-up instead of just one or the other if we want to truly know the match-up).

This match-up can get really bad for Yoshi if Zelda gets too close. She really messes him up at this range, what with her d-smash, d-tilt, Nayru's Love, up-smash...

If there is one thing that Yoshi has going for him, is that his grabs do exceptionally well at putting the hurt on Zelda. You have to constantly space yourself, but it's better to play a defensive game against a character like Zelda since she can easily punish any mistakes Yoshi makes with her devastating moves.

 

[Silent Beast]

Maybe you should look at the lists everyone has posted?

Most people said "Advantage".

I looked at the lists everyone posted. re: Zelda, we have:

Advantage:

Delta-cod
Extermination
Gindler

Disadvantage:

lil b
Shiri
Metatitan
Poltergust
Hadesblade
Bwett
auroreon
Yikarur

Even:

burntsocks
Sharky
Depster
Furbs

 

[.Marik]

Yoshi's quick. Disjointed hitboxes don't really matter if they don't HIT US.

I never said for Yoshi to play super-duper aggressive against Zelda.

*Edit* Haha, I meant to put "Even".

It's not Zelda's favour though.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

I know I didn't make a list but for this matchup I'd say even

 

[Poltergust]

Uh... a lot of Zelda's moves are quick, too. D-tilt, d-smash (fastest d-smash in the game, even faster than MK's), up-smash, and jab are all very quick to come out, and her f-smash isn't too far behind.

We can't even punish most of her moves. Shielding and punishing is basically out of the question (except for maybe her up-smash?), and many of her moves last so long that spot-dodging is still potentially dangerous.

And remember, if they were playing as Sheik earlier and got you up to a relatively high percentage... all she needs is one smash (maybe two if you managed to SDI it or something).

 

[.Marik]

Hmm. Maybe your right.

I lack credible matchup experience, but I never found Zelda to be a problem.

I still go by what I said, but it's probably not Yoshi's favour as I potentially thought.

I NEVER mentioned or suggested we should play super straightforward and aggressive. She does kill incredibly easy, but can be baited and punished for reasons already provided.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Uh... a lot of Zelda's moves are quick, too. D-tilt, d-smash (fastest d-smash in the game, even faster than MK's), up-smash, and jab are all very quick to come out, and her f-smash isn't too far behind.

Actually, Zelda's jab has a start-up of 11 frames. It does have incredibly low cooldown though (8 frames after the final hit), making it safe on block. You're right about the other moves.

If you can help it, you really don't want to approach her, because she has a great defensive game. USmash obliterates most aerial approaches, DSmash makes a good GTFO move, DTilt, FSmash and jab are safe on block... However, she gets screwed over if she has to approach and due to the nature of the two projectiles it's a case of whoever has the percent/stock lead forcing the other to approach.

Oh, and if you get caught in a DTilt lock, the only way to escape it to SDI out. She can start locking at approximately 50-60%.

So yeah, that's general Zelda stuff really. Just figured I should mention it since not many people have Zelda experience (to be fair, why should they?) I don't really know what ratio to put on it. 45:55 Zelda perhaps?

 

[hadesblade]

Zelda isn't a slow character. The only reason she is a "bad" character is because her grab is frame 12. Unfortunately, the fact that yoshi doesn't have a decent shield means we can't exploit it.

She has great walls, a strong versatile projectile, and true dtilt combos.

Anyway I'm curious what we have over a grounded zelda that keeps this matchup from being her advantage?

 

[Poltergust]

I actually agree with a ratio like that (although it's more like 43:57 Zelda, but that's too nitpicky ).

EDIT: Hades, we have grabs... and that's basically it. Jabs can also work, but if you are close enough to actually have them hit then you are spacing incorrectly.

Zelda can really take control of the match-up if she messes up our spacing. We need her to be in the air if we want a chance. A close Zelda is a dangerous Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

Sooo i main shiek/zelda now (zelda for killing).

Lemme see if i can handle this:
Shiek: Sheik's needles are really good, but because of yoshis aerial mobility, shiek cant really camp you. However, shiek can force you to commit to something, and punish with needles (if i could do breversed needles on the ground id be a happy man, but i dont know how). They do 18% so dont try to camp or any of that.
Shieks ftilt is pretty good against yoshi. She cant ftilt lock you because of yoshis nair, but she can turn it into a guessing game by shielding, and the only counter to that is egg lay which is risky.
Shiek punishes a lot out of grabs, especailly characters like yoshi, use lots of DJC momentum changes to get down if you are having trouble.

Retreating back air is pretty nasty on shiek's shield, she doesnt have much she can do about it.
Id say 55:45 shiek.

Zelda: Alright, this character is honestly terrible. She really doesnt have many options. Dins is surprisingly useful against yoshi, just full hop foward and nair or airdodge, be careful when she releases it behind you.

Polt, you gotta bait zelda, she honestly has NOTHING mid range. Condition her into say usmashing, then airdodge outside and grab. Plz dont spotdodge, like every one of zeldas moves beats spotdodging. You are gonna want to play it very safe until you get your opening, follow up the punish until zelda gets on the ground again, and dont try to get these long eleborate chains, cuz zelda can hit you twice and it does the same amount of damage XD

Nothing to say about lightning kick, just be aware of it.

Also its 55:45 zeldas favor i just didnt list why zelda wins besides kill potential.
Its mostly cuz yoshi has really ****ty defenses against zelda, and zeldas defensive game is good against characters that dont have broken pressure games like MK.


LOL@HADESSSS!!!
So wrong its rediculous....
Zelda has so many worse flaws than her grab, her grab actually is the longest non tether so her pivot grab is pretty ****, and she punishes stuff with it, besides having a crappy shield grab.