Sharky
Smash Master
from my experience with cura, the very best I can say is even for IC's. You have to play super gay to stay even with someone that's good with them.
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Metamorphosis: The Universal Yoshi Matchup Discussion Thread
- Thread starter .Marik
- Start date
D
Deleted member
Guest
Ive beaten like every IC i played really bad, but ICs are just too good of a character to be anything less than even.
They arent the same character they used to be, thats for sure.
They arent the same character they used to be, thats for sure.
Sharky
Smash Master
grabs on my part were few and far between.What was your experience like?
Were you having trouble grabbing?
Were you getting grabbed lots?
When grabbing wasn't happening, what else was going on?
getting grabbed happened a lot when I got careless. Switching to a conservative hit and run strategy kept me going, but grabbing still occurred.
desynched ice cubes shut down a fair amount of yoshi camping on neutrals, as well as limit approaching. Desynched blizzards are a ***** lol.
I managed to separate them decently often, but I need to work on following up on that.
the entire match-up is a great lesson in spacing, basically lol.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
obviously :D
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
SH Egg > Desynched ice cubes. Desynched blizzards are meh, depending on where they get you with it. You can just egg them out of it, lol.
But yeah, lots of playing incredibly safe in this MU. It can take a reeeeeeeeally long time to finish a match. =/
One ChainGrab from a consistent Ice Climber player is basically an entire stock depleted.
Yoshi can be "Hobbled" because he's a heavyweight. But usually, they simply perform the DownThrow>Ledge gimmick repeatedly.
Bair and space really well, Grab intelligently and bait accordingly. Don't play aggressive and approach Ice Climbers too much. Maintain a "hit and run" technique and regularly implement it into your gameplay.
Ice Climbers Grabs are simply too good, and unless they mess up, it's virtually impossible to "not get grabbed".
60:40 at least. Maybe 55:45 because Bair and smart camping>punishing can separtate the AI Ice Climber.
Yoshi can be "Hobbled" because he's a heavyweight. But usually, they simply perform the DownThrow>Ledge gimmick repeatedly.
Bair and space really well, Grab intelligently and bait accordingly. Don't play aggressive and approach Ice Climbers too much. Maintain a "hit and run" technique and regularly implement it into your gameplay.
Ice Climbers Grabs are simply too good, and unless they mess up, it's virtually impossible to "not get grabbed".
60:40 at least. Maybe 55:45 because Bair and smart camping>punishing can separtate the AI Ice Climber.
Airborne
Smash Lord
actually every ICs player i've played (champ, the ohio one, and futurewrestler are alright, and future actually seconds yoshi) and they have quite a hard time doing the standing CG on yoshi, so they do the dthrow to ledge bull****. i don't understand what makes them have difficulty with mainly yoshi. o.O
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Actually, the only IC I've ever played has said the same thing. Something about Yoshi being weird to CG, for whatever reason. I usually get thrown to the ledge then spiked, but that usually doesn't finish me until higher percents. Occasionally they'll just mess it up before even getting to the ledge. Pretty weird.
Once you get the AI Climber finished, this MU is soooooooooooo easy. And it's not too hard to get them separated. Egg Lay or a quick grab and throw can do this, and punishment from the throw usually is worth it, since you can then destroy the AI. I usually use dthrow since it puts Yoshi into the air and over some punishes.
Once you get the AI Climber finished, this MU is soooooooooooo easy. And it's not too hard to get them separated. Egg Lay or a quick grab and throw can do this, and punishment from the throw usually is worth it, since you can then destroy the AI. I usually use dthrow since it puts Yoshi into the air and over some punishes.
Airborne
Smash Lord
i did a pretty sexy performance of keeping champ away from his nana lett her fall to her death:
knocked nana off with either nair or fsmash (don't remember, it was a week ago XD) then i ran to ledge and started ece hogging, while champ was acting very urgent to get nana back, and he got pummeled with eggs, unable to tp his nana to him. XD
it was silly.
knocked nana off with either nair or fsmash (don't remember, it was a week ago XD) then i ran to ledge and started ece hogging, while champ was acting very urgent to get nana back, and he got pummeled with eggs, unable to tp his nana to him. XD
it was silly.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Uhhh...
Having mediocre IC players not being able to cg you doesnt effect the matchup.
Grab dthrow walk in front, fthrow regab is one way which doesnt really change per character, although its one of the trickier ones..
ICs win imo not because of CG but because of what they do while you take precautions not to get CGed.
Desynched blizzards **** yoshi so bad, yoshi cant shield it or he gets grabbed so he has to jump or run away if he jumps the desynched nana can just uair you, then you are above ICs which is a terrible spot to be.
Its a momentum based matchup, and yoshi has good tools to eff up their momentum, with his grab on landing and such, but ICs are simply a much better character with a much better pressure game and the best punishment in any smash game.
Also desynched iceblocks can be a pain XD
Having mediocre IC players not being able to cg you doesnt effect the matchup.
Grab dthrow walk in front, fthrow regab is one way which doesnt really change per character, although its one of the trickier ones..
ICs win imo not because of CG but because of what they do while you take precautions not to get CGed.
Desynched blizzards **** yoshi so bad, yoshi cant shield it or he gets grabbed so he has to jump or run away if he jumps the desynched nana can just uair you, then you are above ICs which is a terrible spot to be.
Its a momentum based matchup, and yoshi has good tools to eff up their momentum, with his grab on landing and such, but ICs are simply a much better character with a much better pressure game and the best punishment in any smash game.
Also desynched iceblocks can be a pain XD
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
The thing about desynched what have you is we can just egg one of the climbers as they're doing it. I'm actually a fan of playing the ledge in this MU, as it keeps you very safe from grabs. As long as you're doing it intelligently, it's not really that hard.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Cool you egged, o you just got grabbed, o you just got bthrow to fthrow Cged to 150.
Successful egg is successful.
O you ran to the ledge, cool ICs just ran to the other side of the stage, and is now dynching ice blocks.
Good thing you lose the match if you grab the ledge more than 35 times.
In other words:
Eggs are good but its not like they are desynching blizzards from half way across the stage lol.
Ledge camping is good when used sparingly, but if ICs can beat Mks planking they can certainly beat yoshis.
Blizzard hits you while u ECE.
You act like grabs are ICs only tool, and if you avoid grabs you win the match.
Which is very false.
Successful egg is successful.
O you ran to the ledge, cool ICs just ran to the other side of the stage, and is now dynching ice blocks.
Good thing you lose the match if you grab the ledge more than 35 times.
In other words:
Eggs are good but its not like they are desynching blizzards from half way across the stage lol.
Ledge camping is good when used sparingly, but if ICs can beat Mks planking they can certainly beat yoshis.
Blizzard hits you while u ECE.
You act like grabs are ICs only tool, and if you avoid grabs you win the match.
Which is very false.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
O retreating SH Egg gud read.
Get back up and SH Egg? By the time ice blocks reach you they'll be minuscule, not a problem.
In NJ it's like, 60. >_>'' Yes, I did get timed by a MK. I was saddened by how high the number was. Also, the rule only takes effect if you time. You can still kill them off, lol.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
I didn't mean hanging off the ledge the entire match. I was thinking more about staying near it so you have a quick escape from a death grab should you need it. =/
Well, if you get grabbed you lose. =P
In all honesty, I live FOREVER against the ICs if I don't get grabbed. If I'm playing well, I've been able to take a stock off and kill Nana before finally dying. =/
D
Deleted member
Guest
Haha it was 35 at genesis right?
Also: SH egg.. have fun with that.
Lol
Also: SH egg.. have fun with that.
Lol
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Erm, I will? O.o
Depster
Smash Champion
We decided that egg lay owns even harder in this MU, right?
D
Deleted member
Guest
Spotdodge says hello 
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Mix it up into a Bair then. =P
Metatitan
Smash Master
Two whole options? You know cuz no1 will ever be able to stop two whole options.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Bair > Spotdodge
EggLay > Shield
Space Bair to condition the ICs then mix in egg lay to separate them.
Pretty effective options if you ask me.
EggLay > Shield
Space Bair to condition the ICs then mix in egg lay to separate them.
Pretty effective options if you ask me.
MX778
Smash Journeyman
You can also grab one of the Ice Climbers(Preferably the player) and quickly do the U-throw before the other IC has a chance to retaliate. Then tail whip the **** out of the falling Ice Climber with the U-air.
Make sure he/she never touches the ground again.
Make sure he/she never touches the ground again.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I dont think you understand.
So the only way back air is safe on block vs the ICs (due to risks of powershielding) is if you start it near the beginning of the short hop. Got that? Good
Egg lay does not hit unless you do it while falling.
Do you understand what im getting at.
This applies to all characters which is why you gotta be tricky with egg lay against smart players and reaction players.
They will be able to know if you are going to egg lay by how long you wait before doing your move.
Now there are many remedies but the point is even if you can bait the spotdodge with an air dodge and jab, taking 6% is ok because they kill you out of the grab.
Get it?
Metatitan
Smash Master
Delta no matter what you condition them to, yoshi's approach will always be somewhat of a guessing game. It's usually not that big of a deal since getting grabbed once won't affect much.... oh WAIT it's the IC's, you just got grabbed and now you're ****ed.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
D
Deleted member
Guest
Exactly.
One read means 1 stock, so you have to make your stuff work. Baits are good, and egg lay can be good but i generally wouldnt unless you have like super conditioned them and are certain they are going to shield.
Main things to do, since ive been very negative about the matchup even though i feel its only slightly ICs favor, is to grab on landing, lots of SHADs and retreating bairs, and get those rising nair gimps if you can.
^_^
Sharky
Smash Master
also work on grab breakouts in the event that you get grabbed at an early % where you actually have a slim chance of escaping.
bigman40
Smash Master
Why don't people just say it instead of being hypocritical? I hate that soo ****ing much.
DJC Egglay to force Yoshi to fall with it, even if you are still gaining hieght from having just jumped.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I still believe that Yoshi has many tools to use not to get grabbed in this MU. A majority of the matches I've played I've only gotten grabbed when it was "safe" to. (solo climber) It's also SO easy to gimp AI climber. A good nair to wreck the AI's DJ and they're done, lol.
^ The human-controlled Ice Climber can also interfere with Nana/Popo getting gimped if they are within the proximity to auto-recover with the AI Ice Climber.
So, that plan usually doesn't work if the player understands the basic mechanics of Ice Climbers.
So, that plan usually doesn't work if the player understands the basic mechanics of Ice Climbers.
Depster
Smash Champion
Lain will be at No Koast this weekend, I'll see if I can get him to friendly me.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Keep them separated? It's really not hard to gimp them. I don't really want to go into specifics here, we can move to the IC MU thread though. XD
Dep, get that recorded, lol.
Metatitan
Smash Master
Make sure to wipe up the blood.
Also say hi to Lain everyone! He namesearches
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
K, well.^ Yes, I'm aware it's possible, however gimping them is slightly harder when the Ice Climbers know what's up.
And let this discussion continue here, that's what this thread is for, lol.
You can use the "sourspot" of FAir to knock them further. You can use a reverse egg lay to pull them away. I don't know how fast the AI breaks out of egg it, but it's unable to be saved while trapped. Your momentum will pull it out further as well. Dair. Bair Wall them further out. Nair. Footstool(lol.) The only real chance of salvation is the controlled climber to come and save the AI, but if you keep the AI far out enough, you can force it to die anyways. You can also use the player's need to save the AI to tack on damage and keep him busy once you're knocked the AI out far enough.
Lol, Lain's blood will smother the walls.
SUP LAIN!?
Depster
Smash Champion
LOL I hope he sees this thread and notices that we need friendlies XD
JoBangles and YOSHssb will be there too, so maybe they'll have some input.
OHAIDER Lain!
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Yosh is gonna be there? Take pics, lolz. And have him play Lain too.
YO LAIN!
+1 namesearchcount.