Metaknight versus Diddy

[ADHD]

ADHD I just can't believe the matchup is even. I'm convinced its 55-45 MK favor. No MK has truly learned that they can use diddys bananas against him. They will all say "No, I have!" but they dont use the bananas correctly. Diddy without bananas = vulnerable, and I hope someday I can play you to see how I fair since I only get to play Felix

This is that 2008 crap.

 

[DFEAR]

lol yea a lot of talk here is 2008. match is even nuff said.

ah i used to remember being scared of upb lol

 

[Toronto Joe]

This is that 2008 crap.

LOL win!!!!!

 

[Jem.]

This is that 2008 crap.

It's not even I swear to you! You can gay diddy much more than diddy can gay Metaknight. No metaknight has really discovered how to do the matchup though. I think I have a grasp on parts of it though.

If you are saying that Diddy is fine without bananas, then we'll say it at that. Diddy is at his best when he has bananas out. When he doesn't, he is not as good and has weaknesses. I seriously just think people haven't studied the matchup well enough from a Metaknights perspective on what to do. If you edgeguard his recovery from an upwards diagonal angle, over b doesnt hit metaknight, and most his options (fairing while recovering as diddy, etc) are also taken away. You dont want to be parallel to diddy. And Diddy is pretty easy to gimp if you do it like that i promiseee!

 

[iFudge]

Err first thing i thinks whats wrong with this match-up. Most mk's are pretty much playing it the same way.
And diddy's are easily countering it. The only thing we have vs diddy's is we can edge-guard him and cping some stages. But even rc isnt a easy win now. I think the fact that we're going have to fine another playstyle besides timeing diddy's out to win this match-up vs a good diddy thats hard to approach.
But the main Point in this match-up is too not give diddy a chance to get his nana's out .

 

[Jem.]

Err first thing i thinks whats wrong with this match-up. Most mk's are pretty much playing it the same way.
And diddy's are easily countering it. The only thing we have vs diddy's is we can edge-guard him and cping some stages. But even rc isnt a easy win now. I think the fact that we're going have to fine another playstyle besides timeing diddy's out to win this match-up vs a good diddy thats hard to approach.
But the main Point in this match-up is too not give diddy a chance to get his nana's out .

Aggressive is the key. Campy MK's play into current Diddy's favor. Gotta attack early and often that opening stock.

 

[smasher01]

me and felix MM last GC he beat me in one mm than we went double or nothing than i beat him. the mms were 2/3

when hes camping you, you must camp him harder till you see an opening to take a banana or wait till it goes away than try to take control of him.

diddy sucks vs mk when hes on the ledge and in the air but i noticed felix is really good at geting back to the ground.

idk just throwing out random stuff

 

[MiniTroika]

I was playing a Diddy Kong for like 30 minutes or more at World 2-4 and I can agree with Jem that being aggressive is IMPORTANT. Mainly, as soon as the game says go, you must seriously start running towards him. If you can't hit Diddy when he does his banana toss, airdodge grab the banana so that you have the immediate advantage. They'll catch on eventually and punish your grab so I suggest doing a shuttle loop during the lag of the move sometimes.

When you get a banana, don't be stupid and decide to throw it back to Diddy. He has like a hundred ways to catch it easily. PLAY LIKE DIDDY KONG. Hold on to it, and throw it at him when he uses a laggy move or attacks your shield. Punish any hasty decisions and movements. BE PATIENT (when you have the banana) and you will have an easier time. Stay in the air a lot when you have a banana and use tornado when he makes a mistake. AGAIN, use the banana only when it's guaranteed. You won't get a lot of opportunities like that so be very AWARE. If he's shielding , then don't do it. But, if with fast reaction speed, if he shields the tornado, go straight to the ledge just slightly above it. You'll fall and grab the ledge and even if you get hit by a banana, diddy can't follow it up.

If Diddy decides to throw a banana at you even though you didn't attack just powershield it.

 

[Jem.]

Mini - A good jump on diddy is SO vital, I agree. Diddy is a hard character to make a comeback against, because double banana + peanut camping forces you to approach directly from above him, which he can see and know. it's up to you at that point to find the opening on a dair. Even if youre behind, you can't get greedy. You have to be aware of the clock and know how much time you have to see the opening. If you get impatient, you'll get a nice 40% or so added onto you.

 

[MiniTroika]

Mini - A good jump on diddy is SO vital, I agree. Diddy is a hard character to make a comeback against, because double banana + peanut camping forces you to approach directly from above him, which he can see and know. it's up to you at that point to find the opening on a dair. Even if youre behind, you can't get greedy. You have to be aware of the clock and know how much time you have to see the opening. If you get impatient, you'll get a nice 40% or so added onto you.

People, take this advice to heart. You must not get desperate to make a comeback even if the timer is against you! Remember you have the ultimate comeback move, the tornado! If you find an opening and your percentage gap can be be made up by it, do it and run the timer. If it's already less than a minute left before the match ends, just run the timer. You're kidding yourself if you think you'll land that kill with that little time left.

Dair camping is useless if you attack the shield. Most diddy kings have the muscle memory to glide toss OoS, so fake them out and when they toss it catch the banana. This match will be a battle of the mind and most of all, REFLEXES.

 

[<π]

play sheik. throw needles.

 

[MiniTroika]

play sheik. throw needles.

Play Snake. Throw grenades.

 

[ADHD]

Mini - A good jump on diddy is SO vital, I agree. Diddy is a hard character to make a comeback against, because double banana + peanut camping forces you to approach directly from above him, which he can see and know. it's up to you at that point to find the opening on a dair. Even if youre behind, you can't get greedy. You have to be aware of the clock and know how much time you have to see the opening. If you get impatient, you'll get a nice 40% or so added onto you.

You can't just jump above him and dair. Even if you space it perfectly to not get punished it does nothing. ****it jem. I'm literally the only diddy that camps mks anyway. That "wall" isn't even the MAIN thing of the matchup, and nobody else will use it.

 

[Player-1]

You can't just jump above him and dair. Even if you space it perfectly to not get punished it does nothing. ****it jem. I'm literally the only diddy that camps mks anyway. That "wall" isn't even the MAIN thing of the matchup, and nobody else will use it.

wtf are you talking about, I camp MKs more than I do DKs >.>

 

[etecoon]

I die laughing every time I come across ADHD's signature, I think that's my favorite moment in MK ban debate history maybe aside from dmbrandon and mango getting banned like 80 times over in an epic trollfest

</has nothing on topic to say>

 

[Jem.]

You can't just jump above him and dair. Even if you space it perfectly to not get punished it does nothing. ****it jem. I'm literally the only diddy that camps mks anyway. That "wall" isn't even the MAIN thing of the matchup, and nobody else will use it.

Felix is learning to camp MK's.

The dair doesn't need to hit, but vs Diddy you can't force anything. Even if you dair and Diddy shields and cant punish you, its better than nothing. Maybe he messes up or does something silly afterwards he shouldn't that you can punish.

And again, not saying Felix is as good as you, but he does do the wall.. he picked it up from you i believe. And that isn't the whole matchup, but Metaknight is definently at a disadvantage when he has the "wall out" and Diddy has vulnerabilities when its not a wall.

Remember ADHD I'm just presenting my perspective. You're probably right as you've played all the top metaknights, but I'd definently like to play you sometime to see how I would do.

 

[yoshq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93wxSc8JoCc

 

[Overswarm]

Thanks yoshq; I've been looking into as well.

It's really not hard to do at all once you get the combo started, the issue is actually getting the footstool. My research into it has shown that any time you can get a footstool on Diddy, it's pretty much a mistake on Diddy's part that can be easily avoided except for:

-When Diddy is recovering onto the stage using up+b (not the ledge)
-Out of glide toss (this can be considered a fairly reliable approach to a footstool)
-chasing a tech roll from a trip (d-tilt, banana, etc.; generally when diddy tries to roll behind you)
-shielding a d-smash at super close range (gives you ample time to footstool safely if yuo powershield, questionable timing if you don't)
-jumping to avoid a grab from Diddy (puts him under you and allows you to footstool)


Other than that I don't see it happening too often. The "bolded" ones above are the most common openings for such a feat, as well as the most controlled. That should give you an idea of how common you could see it if an MK proficient at it was attempting to make this occur.

 

[Jem.]

I played vs Felix in doubles in two sets in tournament, and in a few singles friendlies. He probably wasn't trying his hardest, but the dairing from above while recovering was working like a charm.

 

[Overswarm]

I played vs Felix in doubles in two sets in tournament, and in a few singles friendlies. He probably wasn't trying his hardest, but the dairing from above while recovering was working like a charm.

Just a sneak peak at some of the things I've noticed:

Pro-Diddy

Kill setups:

Glide toss Bananas to d-smash
occurs primarily due to mistakes on the MK's part (tornadoing shield, mistaken move, mis-spaced move, etc.). Pretty much the only way Diddy gets a kill is from banana to d-smash/u-air/f-smash

Infinite

Other:

Over-b for mobility
Used when MK tornados (you can get away due to his low air mobility) or you need to get to bananas while he is in the air

Over-b when an opponent is dashing
If spaced correctly, this is a free over-b grab for the Diddy

Peanuts
When MK is on the ledge, simply throsing peanuts can do the trick

Throwing MK away
When you get a grab, throw MK off stage and set up your banana game

Hitting MK on landing
Diddy's u-air is normally pretty easily punished by a dair unless it is prefaced with a banana, but if MK lands on a platform above him it is a safe attempt at a u-air. If MK lands on the ground is it a free anything if the Diddy is set up properly; simply z-dropping a banana causes a trip, amongst more traditional punishes.

Insta-throwing
Used well, this can be very surprising to an opponent and can lead to multiple openings.

Throwing bananas up
MK can sometimes get a free banana, but when MK is air camping this is unpunishable. it's inevitably a winning scenario for Diddy.

Pro-MK

Kill setups:

Any attack off stage
-given multiple opportunities to hit Diddy when he is off stage

Edgehog
-very standard, simply grabbing the edge at the right time

Falling nair
-slow falled nair when Diddy is directly below the edge is a common kill move as it knocks him out of his barrels and makes him fall in a helpless state

Infinite
-the newly discovered infinite on Diddy out of a foostool if you have a banana

Other:

Sharking
-Diddy has no real answer to this. None. He can up+b spike you or down air spike you, but both are risky and easy to space against if you're careful.

U-air to up+b
Diddy relies on positioning to do well. U-air to up+b almost always takes him off stage, and this results in a ton of percentage added up... and mabye a KO.

Tornado as mobility
MK often finds himself falling into a trap; he can get out of this by simply tornadoing away in many circumstances; just don't press B to keep the tornado going and it ends fast enough for you. You can also land on the ledge for added saftey if he's far enough away.




You might say "DUH!" because you already knew all this. I did too, but what's important about all this is that it is confirmed at high level play, and if it isn't listed here I haven't been able to confirm it yet. I've still got a lot more videos to go through, but from what I've seen here's something reaaaally important for you to know when fighting Diddy:

He only kills you with banana to d-smash

Seriously, it's like 90% of this monkey's kills. The only time he gets this off is when you've made a mistake!

This means two things.

1. If you play near the edge of the stage, you'll die faster from the d-smash. That's bad. But if you play REALLY close to the edge, when he hits you with a banana you'll grab the ledge immediately and can't be down-smashed. That's good! If you're a stock up, you have no reason to ever leave this position since all of his attacks are now either damage dealing with no knockback (peanuts, banana) or easily punishable (any of his attacks). That's heavy information; Diddy literally can't kill you unless you mess up.

2. If you are behind and are approaching a higher %, you need to approach, right? Well, Diddy can't banana lock you to the end of the stage without two bananas. That means that if you appraoch him towards the center of the stage, it takes MUCH more % for him to kill you. This means on stages like FD and PS1 with relatively large stages they will more or less depend on you being near the sides of the stage. Stay near the center and you'll live to obscene percents.



I'll have a lot more to come. Diddy has some stuff too, of course, but it's seeming more in MK's control at the moment. Diddy is a strong reactionary character, he just doesn't leave much room for punishment.

Our current levle of knowledge is basically early MK vs. Snake. People thought Snake did an amazing job because his u-tilt killed at 80% (Diddy killing with glide toss bananas to d-smash at the edge for early kills) and his f-tilt did so much damage and near impossible to space yet Snake made you approach because of grenades (Diddy with nana in front, nana in hand, shooting grenades).

We learned to just avoid the u-tilt at all times because it's stupid not to, and we learned how to approach so that he can't reliably f-tilt us. It doesn't take too much effort to see the same when it happens to Diddy, and Diddy actually has less room to experiment than Snake. Diddy is a surprisingly limited character.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Jem and I forget his teammate lost to me/judge at Genesis. ADHD is better than me.

 

[clowsui]

just a note that single naner locks are possible with diddy vs. mk but ppl just haven't taken the time to learn it for some stupid reason

 

[Overswarm]

just a note that single naner locks are possible with diddy vs. mk but ppl just haven't taken the time to learn it for some stupid reason

MK can do the same, but easier.

 

[Jem.]

Jem and I forget his teammate lost to me/judge at Genesis. ADHD is better than me.

Eggz was my teammate for Genesis

 

[Teh Future]

OS final conclusion: mk wins 80-20 loooolloloololo

 

[TheLastCacely]

lulz. This thread shall die.

whats that in ur sig? im lulzing uncontrollably.

 

[InfiniteBlaze]

diddy beats mk 55:45

M2K is the best MK and even he cant beat diddys so yeh

 

[etecoon]

^ nice troll account bro

also some good recent vids on this MU, atomsk's MK is too sexy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQv5dJOMMmY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf_P835VxFQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH0OYeTchmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUPyTyjnLt4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsYFASupQos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVpmy3czrh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6FW_QrwAHE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB0bGWV9iA4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2NWH82em64

 

[Kaffei]

diddy beats mk 55:45

M2K is the best MK and even he cant beat diddys so yeh

M2K is the best MK but he is not the best at the Diddy MU.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Atomsk and Shadow are the best vs. Diddy. Seph is extremely good at it too, he recently 2-0'd NinjaLink.

Edit: And obviously Dojo

 

[InfiniteBlaze]

^ nice troll account bro

also some good recent vids on this MU, atomsk's MK is too sexy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQv5dJOMMmY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf_P835VxFQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH0OYeTchmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUPyTyjnLt4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsYFASupQos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVpmy3czrh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6FW_QrwAHE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB0bGWV9iA4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2NWH82em64

lol, i kid i kid

 

[Jem.]

I realized something yesterday when Felix and I were playing for 6 hours.

If you grab release Diddy on the edge and pummel so he drops, most Diddy's will fair so you don't follow it up. If you power shield to downsmash your downsmash hits before he can even grab the ledge, and it led to some follow ups.

It'll force diddy to re-think just fairing. Just something I noticed. (Maybe he can beat it but since it was just friendlies he chose not to. Who knows)

 

[Kaffei]

I realized something yesterday when Felix and I were playing for 6 hours.

If you grab release Diddy on the edge and pummel so he drops, most Diddy's will fair so you don't follow it up. If you power shield to downsmash your downsmash hits before he can even grab the ledge, and it led to some follow ups.

It'll force diddy to re-think just fairing. Just something I noticed. (Maybe he can beat it but since it was just friendlies he chose not to. Who knows)

Thanks Jem

 

[Max Ketchum]

Jem, it's the same for Snake (except it'll be air dodge, which you can dtilt/nair/grab).

They learn after the first try, generally. Diddy has a solid amount of options from grab release at the edge. Diddy players around here don't even try fairing anymore.

 

[BluePeachy100]

Diddy vs MK is like 60-40(Diddy), no lie.

 

[Max Ketchum]

BluePeachy's body is like 60-40 alcohol-blood, no lie. Dude is mad drunk.

 

[BluePeachy100]

BluePeachy's body is like 60-40 alcohol-blood, no lie. Dude is mad drunk.

This is very true.

 

[FelixTrix]

:O

I discovered the secret to diddy vs. mk a couple days ago. hahaha adhd probably already has it but i wanted to find it on my own.

@ jem: I didn't videos of diddy players up until the beginning of december last year and I learned how to do the "ADHD" wall by myself. >_>

It's better if you don't copy everything what other players do because then you're just a worse copy of them. always one step behind, while I'm looking to move ahead.

55-45 mk. diddy isn't a counter to mk. mk isn't bad vs. diddy.

 

[BluePeachy100]

Diddy is like soo hard to face, I don't really feel like... uhm... any thing is positive for Mk except gimping, TBH. Someone, please enlighten me.

 

[Jem.]

:O

I discovered the secret to diddy vs. mk a couple days ago. hahaha adhd probably already has it but i wanted to find it on my own.

@ jem: I didn't videos of diddy players up until the beginning of december last year and I learned how to do the "ADHD" wall by myself. >_>

It's better if you don't copy everything what other players do because then you're just a worse copy of them. always one step behind, while I'm looking to move ahead.

55-45 mk. diddy isn't a counter to mk. mk isn't bad vs. diddy.

The only ways to be creative with MK, I've already "created" and learned. I honestly for the longest time had no idea other MK's used Up b a lot and had success until I watched Shadow videos. Being creative won't make me better, especially MK, a character whose uniqueness is limited at the highest level.

I'll never be better than M2K, I just want to find ways.