MetaKnight: Move Tier List

[Staco]

UAir for top! Oo

 

[Minwu]

If they slam into the ground in front of a wall, Jab is an infinite.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

What about Dash Attack? Mid tier IMO.

 

[-Jumpman-]

What about Dash Attack? Mid tier IMO.

Wow no, it sucks. Trust me. The first thing an opponent will do if you approach is shield, and this move is punished very easily.

 

[Deoxys]

If they slam into the ground in front of a wall, Jab is an infinite.

Wait, really!? Like they keep bouncing off the ground?

Also, Dash attack is great for spacing.

 

[-Jumpman-]

Wait, really!? Like they keep bouncing off the ground?

Also, Dash attack is great for spacing.

How the **** can you space with that move? Go backwards during the animation? Do you even know what spacing means?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Dash attack is high tier.

Crosses up the shield up automatically and pops them up on hit.

Very good.

 

[Skyflyer]

Dash attack is high tier.

Crosses up the shield up automatically and pops them up on hit.

Very good.

It's also good to use in the middle of combos.

 

[-Jumpman-]

Dash attack is not high tier, it's too risky. MK has a lot of moves that cannot be punished, why use one that can be?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok, when it crosses up the shield, MK is safe since he is now on the other side his opponent.

It's one of the best dash attacks in the game.

I would say low high tier.

 

[-Jumpman-]

Ok, when it crosses up the shield, MK is safe since he is now on the other side his opponent.

It's one of the best dash attacks in the game.

I would say low high tier.

This means that you should be very close to your opponent and your opponent cannot shield, or he'll be able to punish it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

He wouldn't be able to punish since MK slides too far away.

Now depending on stage positioning MK won't always be able to slide very far away so that's why I said low high tier.

 

[-Jumpman-]

He wouldn't be able to punish since MK slides too far away.

Now depending on stage positioning MK won't always be able to slide very far away so that's why I said low high tier.

I can't say I agree, because he doesn't slide away very far at all. But the attack is decent if timed perfectly, and because the rest of his moves is in top tier anyway, I can live with this.

 

[brinboy789]

dash attack is fairly situational...its fast and can be sort of comboed with bu its priority is like negative. it SUCKS .

 

[Minwu]

Wait, really!? Like they keep bouncing off the ground?

Also, Dash attack is great for spacing.

Yes, it's like Link's or Lucas' jab lock but they get pushed out of range without a wall since MK's jab doesn't end fast enough for him to follow them.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

Dash attack is quick, can pass through the opponent, and has nice follow-ups. I'd put it in high or mid, but I placed it in mid since I just don't seem to use it as much as everything else.

 

[Deoxys]

How the **** can you space with that move? Go backwards during the animation? Do you even know what spacing means?

You use it to get a quick boost past the spot where your opponent can hit you. You really couldn't figure that out?

 

[Gates]

changed. and to all that are saying that drill rush is good, IT SUCKS. MK almost ALWAYS has a better option. good for recovery? tornado is better horizontally, shuttle loop should be main recovery move. its only not worst because it has good vertical distance

This is the drill that will pierce the heavens! Don't believe in Drill Rush. Believe in Metaknight. Believe in Mataknight who believes in Drill Rush! Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe! And that hole will be a path for those behind us! The dreams of those who've fallen! The hopes of those who'll follow! Those two sets of dreams weave together in a double helix! Drilling a path towards tomorrow! And that's Drill Rush! That's Metaknight!

We embark on the winding spiral path! The paths of recover and mindgames intersect! Pierce next round with last round's foe! And carve that path with this sideB! Destiny Combining -- Metaknight!!

JUST WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM?!

 

[Crizthakidd]

i cant seem to find uses for dash attack later on %

 

[Deoxys]

i cant seem to find uses for dash attack later on %

Use it to attack parts of the stage when your opponent's in the process of being KO'd to refresh your other moves.

 

[Shaya]

Seriously guys, even if the technique for it is banned, Dimension Cape is beyond god tier used "properly".

 

[Deoxys]

Seriously guys, even if the technique for it is banned, Dimension Cape is beyond god tier used "properly".

Not if you make a custom stage that makes it crappy. Point is, without rules, no one cares how good it is.

 

[fromundaman]

I didn't read this whole thread, so if someone already stated t sorry.

Anyway, while we can all agree MK's jab sucks a stiff one, it does have a few uses.
While few MK's seem to do it (In fact, I've never seen anyone but myself and my brother do this), if MK taps A just once, the jab will end quickly and can immediately be followed into a Dsmash (supposing you learn when MK's jab ends and time the Dsmash perfectly). Better yet, if MK does a reverse shuttleloop edgeguard (I think that's what it's called... when you're under the stage, do a SL facing away from it, and it cancels on the stage), it follows perfectly into the aforementioned 'combo' (I know it's nowere near a true combo, don't give me **** over this), and MK will actually slide during the jabs and get his opponent suspended over the edge, then can follow into a Dsmash.
So far, I have rarely ever failed to land these when playing MK, even though it is escapable with good DI and reflexes (You can shield pretty much right when MK Dsmashes, unless it was after the reverse SL edgeguard, in which case your opponent probably lost a stock.), because people who see a MK jab always assume it's a mistake and don't expect a follow up.

So yeah, don't get me wrong, it still sucks, but can be followed up by a Dsmash.

 

[Master Raven]

Top
Fair
Ftilt
Dtilt
Shuttle Loop
Nair
Dair

High
Dthrow
Dsmash
Mach Tornado
Uair

Middle
Dash Attack
Bair
Fsmash
Bthrow
Uthrow
Glide Attack
Fthrow
Utilt

Low
Usmash
Drill Rush

Bottom
Dimensional Cape
Jab

 

[Deoxys]

I didn't read this whole thread, so if someone already stated t sorry.

Anyway, while we can all agree MK's jab sucks a stiff one, it does have a few uses.
While few MK's seem to do it (In fact, I've never seen anyone but myself and my brother do this), if MK taps A just once, the jab will end quickly and can immediately be followed into a Dsmash (supposing you learn when MK's jab ends and time the Dsmash perfectly). Better yet, if MK does a reverse shuttleloop edgeguard (I think that's what it's called... when you're under the stage, do a SL facing away from it, and it cancels on the stage), it follows perfectly into the aforementioned 'combo' (I know it's nowere near a true combo, don't give me **** over this), and MK will actually slide during the jabs and get his opponent suspended over the edge, then can follow into a Dsmash.
So far, I have rarely ever failed to land these when playing MK, even though it is escapable with good DI and reflexes (You can shield pretty much right when MK Dsmashes, unless it was after the reverse SL edgeguard, in which case your opponent probably lost a stock.), because people who see a MK jab always assume it's a mistake and don't expect a follow up.

So yeah, don't get me wrong, it still sucks, but can be followed up by a Dsmash.

Wouldn't it be better to just Dsmash in the first place or use dtilt instead?

 

[Hylian]

I don't understand why people can't realize that all moves are situational and the only reason a move would be bad is if the character always has better options.

 

[DMG]

I don't understand why people can't realize that all moves are situational and the only reason a move would be bad is if the character always has better options.

Like how G&W's Dtilt outshines his Ftilt?

 

[Ulevo]

Ok, here we go:

Top Tier

Fair
Dair
Dsmash
Shuttle Loop
Mach Tornado
Nair
Ftilt
Dtilt

High Tier

Uair
Dthrow
Glide Attack (Gair? lol)


Middle Tier

Fsmash
Utilt
Bair
Bthrow
Uthrow
Dash Attack.
Fthrow

Low/Bottom Tier

Drill Rush
Usmash
Dimentional Cape

Crap tier

Jab. this move sucks so much it gets its own tier. yay!

Top Tier:

Mach Tornado
Dtilt
FSmash

High Tier:

FTilt
DSmash
Uair
Shuttle Loop
Uthrow
Nair
Dair
Glide Attack
Dthrow
Fair

Mid Tier:


Drill Rush
Bthrow
Dimensional Cape
Utilt
Bair

Low Tier:

USmash
Standard A

 

[Deoxys]

Top Tier:

Mach Tornado
Dtilt
FSmash

High Tier:

FTilt
DSmash
Uair
Shuttle Loop
Uthrow
Nair
Dair
Glide Attack
Dthrow
Fair

Mid Tier:


Drill Rush
Bthrow
Dimensional Cape
Utilt
Bair

Low Tier:

USmash
Standard A

Why do you consider Fsmash so great?

Top
Fair
Ftilt
Dtilt
Shuttle Loop
Mach Tornado
Nair
Dair
Dthrow
Dsmash

High
Uair
Glide Attack
Dash Attack

Middle
Fsmash
Uthrow
Bthrow

Low
Utilt
Usmash
Drill Rush
Bair

Bottom
Dimensional Cape
Fthrow*
Jab

*IDK how to get Fthrow -> SL to work consistently, which is why I rank it here.

You'll notice I like Usmash more than most. I like it because it allows you to have a hitbox above you for a longer duration than any of MK's other moves, so it can hit people who dodge better than other moves.

Also, this list only applies to SINGLES.

 

[hdrevolution123]

Downthrow at the top! It's one of the most played moves, like fair. Bair's good because of the range above you which blocks some character's approaches from above. Move fsmash to high =)

Fsmash is really good. Or at least I think so because power rankers use it a lot.

I guess it is pretty funny to watch MK jab the pointers of his shoes repeatedly at his opponent's face but it does not give as much damage as others. However it gives a good position afterwards to fair them and then shuttle loop, all as one moves. I would choose the back throw to be the above all best throw for MK because it causes hell's damage and you're in a good position for an array of combos afterwards. That's what I love about MK

 

[Ulevo]

Why do you consider Fsmash so great?

Top
Fair
Ftilt
Dtilt
Shuttle Loop
Mach Tornado
Nair
Dair
Dthrow
Dsmash

High
Uair
Glide Attack
Dash Attack

Middle
Fsmash
Uthrow
Bthrow

Low
Utilt
Usmash
Drill Rush
Bair

Bottom
Dimensional Cape
Fthrow*
Jab

*IDK how to get Fthrow -> SL to work consistently, which is why I rank it here.

You'll notice I like Usmash more than most. I like it because it allows you to have a hitbox above you for a longer duration than any of MK's other moves, so it can hit people who dodge better than other moves.

Also, this list only applies to SINGLES.

FSmash has a very large hit box, both vertically and horizontally. It stops a variety of short hop approaches, and can bypass many attacks. It has nearly no recovery frames after execution, and can be stutter stepped rather far in both direction. It also has incredible knock back for its speed.

As for the Tier List you provided...

Fair is not that fantastic of a move. It's fast on start up and has decent range, but many attacks override it, and it can be escaped via SDI. Mach Tornado needs to be much higher. There are many methods to avoid/break it, but it still single handedly drastically changes a variety of match ups and places them in Meta Knights favour. Coupled with very good start up and cool down recovery frames, a massive hit box and good damage dealing, along with the use of recovery and mobility, you have a move that's in a league of its own. Shuttle Loop is overrated, and telegraphs. Nair, Dair, Dthrow and DSmash have no business in Top Tier.

I forgot about Dash Attack, but I'd place it in High myself. Uthrow definitely needs to be higher. It does the most damage out of all the throws, and it has the ability to KO, particularly on stages with low ceilings or high platforms. Drill Rush needs to be higher; it's probably his overall best recovery option.

That is my two cents on the matter.

 

[Sushi-Man]

@Ulevo: F-smash is only a defensive manuever and is almost never used when playing offensively. You can bait people who misjudge the cool down lag of f-smash and punish them, but that is only for people who are not aware. Fair is meta-knight's best and most used move. It can be his approach, his offensive air/ground game, and can also be used defensively. Tornado should not be so high because it is very hard to get out of for some character, a large number of characters will bounce right out of tornado after can punish mk. But I do agree with your statement that d-smash should not be in top-tier. Do to the fact that it stales so quickly, you must preserve it and its usability decreases significantly.

 

[TheM]

well for the original list, i think it's obvious dtilt needs to be much higher, and dsmash and dair need to be lower.
also @ ulevo's list....fsmash isn't too great, like all these guys said.

 

[Affinity]

I can see F-smash is very underrated here in the MK boards.

It's high tier, at least.

 

[TheM]

I can see F-smash is very underrated here in the MK boards.

It's high tier, at least.

but not top tier. it's a decent KO move, and a okay defensive move if you predict correctly, but right under dtilt? i don't think so...

 

[Ulevo]

@Ulevo: F-smash is only a defensive manuever and is almost never used when playing offensively. You can bait people who misjudge the cool down lag of f-smash and punish them, but that is only for people who are not aware. Fair is meta-knight's best and most used move. It can be his approach, his offensive air/ground game, and can also be used defensively. Tornado should not be so high because it is very hard to get out of for some character, a large number of characters will bounce right out of tornado after can punish mk. But I do agree with your statement that d-smash should not be in top-tier. Do to the fact that it stales so quickly, you must preserve it and its usability decreases significantly.

Exactly how does FSmash being a defensive tool merit the cause of putting it in anything less than Top? It isn't that players will get hit if they misjudge it. It's the fact that it goes through a plethora of moves, and will almost never, ever be punished. You can space with it better than most moves, and its hitbox is incredible large for its speed and power ratio.

Fair is not his best move. It is no where even close to being his best move. Many attacks go through it, it is unsafe on block even when spaced, it can be escaped via SDI, it has commitment... Dtilt, Tornado, Ftilt are all significantly better than Fair.

DSmash is a good move, but only because of how much knock back and speed it has when combined with its hit box. It's usually inferior to FSmash. But I do not see how the stale move list should effect DSmash and it's placement on a Tier List. That is the application of the player, and poor misusage, not a handicap of the move itself.

well for the original list, i think it's obvious dtilt needs to be much higher, and dsmash and dair need to be lower.
also @ ulevo's list....fsmash isn't too great, like all these guys said.

Play in a high level Meta Knight ditto. That might change your mind.

 

[Deoxys]

Fair is not his best move. It is no where even close to being his best move. Many attacks go through it, it is unsafe on block even when spaced, it can be escaped via SDI, it has commitment... Dtilt, Tornado, Ftilt are all significantly better than Fair.
[...]
Play in a high level Meta Knight ditto. That might change your mind.

You can't SDI the fair if you use it right (initiating early like M2K does). Also, very few attacks go through it, and being unsafe on the block isn't enough to keep it from being amazing. Several matchups virtually lose to Fair, even more matchups than Tornado. Plus it comes out on frame 6. It's a commitment, but if you use it when your opponent is in the air and you space properly, it's a safe commitment. You're right about it not being MK's best move, though, which I now realize.

One matchup does not do enough to warrant putting Fsmash that high. Also, you fail to note how much damage Dsmash does in relation to its speed. Fsmash comes out on frame 24, Dsmash comes out on frame 5. I don't see why people don't acknowledge how amazing Dsmash is. It's damage/speed ratio is absurd.

You're right about me underrating Fsmash, though, among other things, which has resulted in me making this list:

Top
Ftilt
Dtilt
Mach Tornado
Fair
Dthrow
Nair

High
Dair
Dsmash
Fsmash
Shuttle Loop
Drill Rush

Middle
Uthrow
Uair
Glide Attack
Dash Attack
Bair

Low
Utilt
Usmash
Bthrow

Bottom
Dimensional Cape
Fthrow
Jab

 

[Kitamerby]

Exactly how does FSmash being a defensive tool merit the cause of putting it in anything less than Top? It isn't that players will get hit if they misjudge it. It's the fact that it goes through a plethora of moves, and will almost never, ever be punished. You can space with it better than most moves, and its hitbox is incredible large for its speed and power ratio.

But won't it not hit people in 95% of the matchups due to everyone knowing about it, making it basically useless, as anyone but GnW or another Meta Knight can just chuck a projectile, forcing you to cancel the move early and shield or something?

Meanwhile, Dsmash comes out on frame 5 and kills at like 120 while being virtually unpunishable if used properly due to its immense speed and range and lack of cool-down.

But what do I know? <<

 

[Ulevo]

You can't SDI the fair if you use it right (initiating early like M2K does).

Um... what? Yes you can. It's a multihit move. You can SDI multi hit moves. Its very easy to do, regardless of circumstance. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to imply here.

Also, very few attacks go through it,

I'd be willing to make a rather large list to prove you wrong, because you are. I'd appreciate you being informed on your information though, so as to save me the trouble.

and being unsafe on the block isn't enough to keep it from being amazing.

It's a fairly good move statistically because it is a meaty attack, it has good start up frame time, and it can be auto canceled. That's basically it though. Even though it is good, it is no where near as good as most of his other moves. And Fair does not make or break any match up more than any of his other moves, especially attacks like Mach Tornado. This mainly leads to the fact that almost any character can punish it on shield and that there are many moves that bypass it. Again, I'd appreciate it if you were informed on these facts before I go ahead stating attacks, as I have time restraints.

Several matchups virtually lose to Fair, even more matchups than Tornado.

Um... Last time I checked, characters like Bowser, King Dedede, Donkey Kong... they all had a reasonable time of out ranging Meta Knights Fair. They, however, have a rather hard time evading countering Tornado, despite there tactics against it.

Plus it comes out on frame 6. It's a commitment, but if you use it when your opponent is in the air and you space properly, it's a safe commitment.

If it is used in the air, it is safe depending upon who you're fighting. Many characters have aerials that out range Fair, so... yeah. This includes if you space.

On shield, it isn't safe commitment because Meta Knight has to wait for the full duration of the attack before he can react, and the character can retaliate OoS since Meta Knight can't retreat due to poor aerial mobility speed.

One matchup does not do enough to warrant putting Fsmash that high.

I was providing an example in which experience could be derived from as to how useful the move is. I never stated it was the only match up in which it became useful, nor am I insinuating that is the case. There are plenty of other match ups in which FSmash creates a large advantage in Meta Knights favour. Marth, G&W, Kirby, et cetera.

Also, you fail to note how much damage Dsmash does in relation to its speed. Fsmash comes out on frame 24, Dsmash comes out on frame 5.

FSmash has a significantly better hit box. It also doesn't have the recovery frames DSmash does. Think about it. There is almost never any reason why a character should ever have to attack on both sides within singles, when you can simply turn around and react. It's faster to do so. DSmash leaces you vulnerable, and is unsafe on block. Plus it is easy to bypass. FSmash is not.

I don't see why people don't acknowledge how amazing Dsmash is. It's damage/speed ratio is absurd.

It's a good move for the fact that the frontal hit box hits characters hanging below the stage line, it's very fast on start up for the first hit box and it has decent damage and knock back. Bottom line, if it didn't have the second swing to the sword, it would be a near broken to broken move. But that second swing hinders its use incredibly, despite how useful it still happens to be. It's best used in close quarters to reset the distance between you and your opponent. For knock outs, there are significantly better alternatives.

But won't it not hit people in 95% of the matchups due to everyone knowing about it, making it basically useless, as anyone but GnW or another Meta Knight can just chuck a projectile, forcing you to cancel the move early and shield or something?

Meanwhile, Dsmash comes out on frame 5 and kills at like 120 while being virtually unpunishable if used properly due to its immense speed and range and lack of cool-down.

But what do I know? <<

FSmash is significantly safer to use than DSmash. You can't even begin to compare the two. You bring up the fact that DSmash comes out on frame 5, but you ignore when the move finishes and the player is able to react. Let alone the fact that its hitbox is inferior, and the methods to space with it are limited in comparison.

Many characters can use projectiles against it, yes. But for the characters who cannot, or who attempt to approach, they have difficulties dealing with FSmash because they can't properly approach, override, bait, or punish the move. I don't think you realize exactly how powerful that concept is. Unless you actually have an item or projectile to throw, the Meta Knight player could care less what you do unless you have a safe method around the attack, regardless if you know about it or not.

Meta Knight has issues with projectiles in general, regardless of what move he is attempting to use from afar, excluding maybe Mach Tornado. I don't see how that is really a relevant point.

 

[Deoxys]

Um... what? Yes you can. It's a multihit move. You can SDI multi hit moves. Its very easy to do, regardless of circumstance. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to imply here.

Umm, no. You don't have to hit with the first strike of the three, and if you're good you won't.

I'd be willing to make a rather large list to prove you wrong, because you are. I'd appreciate you being informed on your information though, so as to save me the trouble.

Please do.

It's a fairly good move statistically because it is a meaty attack, it has good start up frame time, and it can be auto canceled. That's basically it though. Even though it is good, it is no where near as good as most of his other moves. And Fair does not make or break any match up more than any of his other moves, especially attacks like Mach Tornado. This mainly leads to the fact that almost any character can punish it on shield and that there are many moves that bypass it. Again, I'd appreciate it if you were informed on these facts before I go ahead stating attacks, as I have time restraints.

I don't appreciate your attitude. We all have time constraints. You can't shield in the air. Some characters have virtually no options that come out quickly enough to stop a Fair approach once they realize the MK has commited to the move.

Um... Last time I checked, characters like Bowser, King Dedede, Donkey Kong... they all had a reasonable time of out ranging Meta Knights Fair. They, however, have a rather hard time evading countering Tornado, despite there tactics against it.

Those aren't the matchups I was talking about, but please tell me what Bowser and DK have on disjointed hitboxes.

If it is used in the air, it is safe depending upon who you're fighting. Many characters have aerials that out range Fair, so... yeah. This includes if you space.

Yes, many characters aren't completely owned by the Fair, but several are. Besides, outranging Fair isn't enough to stop it; they must also outprioritize it or have a disjointed hitbox.

On shield, it isn't safe commitment because Meta Knight has to wait for the full duration of the attack before he can react, and the character can retaliate OoS since Meta Knight can't retreat due to poor aerial mobility speed.

Yeah... I know... I never said it was always safe against a grounded opponent.

I was providing an example in which experience could be derived from as to how useful the move is. I never stated it was the only match up in which it became useful, nor am I insinuating that is the case. There are plenty of other match ups in which FSmash creates a large advantage in Meta Knights favour. Marth, G&W, Kirby, et cetera.

I'm aware, but I think it's important to note that the "et cetera" is only like two other characters to my knowledge.

FSmash has a significantly better hit box. It also doesn't have the recovery frames DSmash does. Think about it. There is almost never any reason why a character should ever have to attack on both sides within singles, when you can simply turn around and react. It's faster to do so. DSmash leaces you vulnerable, and is unsafe on block. Plus it is easy to bypass. FSmash is not.

True, but Dsmash allows for more mindgames than Fsmash.

It's a good move for the fact that the frontal hit box hits characters hanging below the stage line, it's very fast on start up for the first hit box and it has decent damage and knock back. Bottom line, if it didn't have the second swing to the sword, it would be a near broken to broken move. But that second swing hinders its use incredibly, despite how useful it still happens to be. It's best used in close quarters to reset the distance between you and your opponent. For knock outs, there are significantly better alternatives.

Good point.

tl;dr: I grossly overrated Dsmash, but still believe it to be MK's best smash.