Metaknight iz zo brokn!!!!!!!!!!!!

[viparagon]

Viparon, Jigglypuff definitely should make the list for bair but the petition got removed. I might just PM everybody and try to get her on a separate website list.

LOL
i already told you, its on the list!^_^

 

[illinialex24]

LOL
i already told you, its on the list!^_^

Oh it is... Checking that now.

1.G&W
2.DK
3. tlink
4.D3
5.lugi
6.yoshi
7.wolf
8.pit
9.kirby
10.mario

I don't see Jigglypuff.......

 

[sonic 12111]

well i think ganons up smash is decently fast and can kill. by the way i think samus has the wost up smash while having a very bad down b at the same time

 

[viparagon]

oh sorry thought I put it on! srry mario

 

[cmpr94x]

This list is soooo terrible.

 

[Ussi]

How is DK's usmash any good? It is killer yes, but its super hard to land and unpractical. It's not a top 10 usmash.

 

[Ussi]

lingering is in quotes for a reason, duh

links is still much faster, and is VERY useful for approach with his DACUS. marth can easily bait an airdodge with his uair, then follow up with his VERY powerful usmash. it outranges almost anything above him at anyrate.

I'll move it up, tho

well since DACAS is upsmash, why is Snake's DA number one? Its very very laggy...

And even if you approach with DACAS, the usmash still isn't that good. You can still DI out of it.

 

[viparagon]

well since DACAS is upsmash, why is Snake's DA number one? Its very very laggy...

And even if you approach with DACAS, the usmash still isn't that good. You can still DI out of it.

snakes is still fast, goes behind shields, and is powerful, and usmash, DA, and distance are all factors included for the DACUS.

its very hard to DI out of if you are first hit at the base, and it is not punishable on shield and cannot be spotdodged when used against most characters.

I'll move it down, though

How is DK's usmash any good? It is killer yes, but its super hard to land and unpractical. It's not a top 10 usmash.

its still very quick, kills at 70% and has great range(can hit a dairing lucario)

 

[Ussi]

snakes is still fast, goes behind shields, and is powerful, and usmash, DA, and distance are all factors included for the DACUS.

its very hard to DI out of if you are first hit at the base, and it is not punishable on shield and cannot be spotdodged when used against most characters.

I'll move it down, though


its still very quick, kills at 70% and has great range(can hit a dairing lucario)

How can you count DACAS in dash attack? DACAS doesn't have a shred of Dash attack in it expect for the first few frames. DACAS should just affect usmash and thats it.


DK's usmash still isn't used at much as other usmash's. I've seen Mario use usmash more than a DK

 

[viparagon]

How can you count DACAS in dash attack? DACAS doesn't have a shred of Dash attack in it expect for the first few frames. DACAS should just affect usmash and thats it.


DK's usmash still isn't used at much as other usmash's. I've seen Mario use usmash more than a DK

its more situational, but that doesn't make it worse.

How is DA not a factor? it controls how far it goes, and snake's is good regardless.

This list is soooo terrible.

help me fix it, then? I know its nowhere near completion, but there are alot of categories and its impossible to please everyone

 

[Ussi]

its more situational, but that doesn't make it worse.

How is DA not a factor? it controls how far it goes, and snake's is good regardless.

Snake's dash attack is pretty laggy. Plus it serves him no purpose as DACAS is much more better.

meh, i still think DACAS is more reliant on the usmash. Do you see Jiggs using DACAS? no cause their usmash isn't good.




Because DK's usmash is very situational makes other usmashes have better uses/situations than his.

 

[viparagon]

Snake's dash attack is pretty laggy. Plus it serves him no purpose as DACAS is much more better.

meh, i still think DACAS is more reliant on the usmash. Do you see Jiggs using DACAS? no cause their usmash isn't good.




Because DK's usmash is very situational makes other usmashes have better uses/situations than his.

its not that situational... you use it when there above you...that what usmashs are 4.?

yes, DACUS is more reliant on the Usmash, but the DA is what gives it the boose. if snake had mario's DA, it would go about 1/5 as far... Is that not a huge differrence?


spellin msitakes FWT!

 

[Kitamerby]

well i think ganons up smash is decently fast and can kill. by the way i think samus has the wost up smash while having a very bad down b at the same time

...
OMG.

HOW DID WE FORGET.

Samus has the worst usmash and downB. No contest.

DK's usmash still isn't used at much as other usmash's. I've seen Mario use usmash more than a DK

Some characters would kill for MK's Bair or Utilt, or Snake's Uair/Nair/Dtilt/Dair.

Just because the characters don't use it often doesn't make it any worse.

DK's Usmash should not be on the list, still.

 

[Ussi]

its not that situational... you use it when there above you...that what usmashs are 4.?

yes, DACUS is more reliant on the Usmash, but the DA is what gives it the boose. if snake had mario's DA, it would go about 1/5 as far... Is that not a huge differrence?


spellin msitakes FWT!

Usmash has more uses than aerial interception... It can be used to hit grounded people too.

the problem is how above the hitbox is. People can easily avoid that area. DK's usmash is not a move you challenge with a dair, simple as that.


top ten upsmashes

1.Fox
2.Olimar
3.Snake
4.Zelda
5.Mr. Game & Watch
6.Link
7.Charizard
8.Donkey Kong
9.Ike
10.Peach

as you see, all but DK's and Zelda's usmash cover the ground around or in front of them. With Zelda, a short character can DI out of usmash.

The reason DK's Usmash beats Lucario's dair is cause it was made to intercept aerials and hit thru platforms, but thats all it can do. DK has much more reliable kill moves so usmash is not a main killer, however is hit hards I will admit.

if anything, Yoshi, Ike, Mario, Pikachu, Squirtle, and Ivysaur definably have better situations for usmashes than DK. (And There probably are more, I just don't know other characters well enough)

Ivysaur's usmash does a better job than DK's usmash in every single way.

 

[viparagon]

...
OMG.

HOW DID WE FORGET.

Samus has the worst usmash and downB. No contest.

Some characters would kill for MK's Bair or Utilt, or Snake's Uair/Nair/Dtilt/Dair.

precisely

Just because the characters don't use it often doesn't make it any worse.

DK's Usmash should not be on the list, still.

fix'd for usmash, but Samus's downb is pretty useful IMO. gives great aerial mobility to prevent juggling, nails lingering edgestallers,helps recovery, serves as a psuedoroll, etc.

certainly below average, but still better than yoshi's IMO

 

[DanGR]

How about adding "grab" as a category.

Olimar and DDD would definitely be at the top.

 

[viparagon]

How about adding "grab" as a category.

Olimar and DDD would definitely be at the top.

great!

it would be another one out of five, so I'm thinking...

1. Oli
2.D3
3.charizard
4.squirtle
5.dk

worst: yoshi

Lulz I have no idea after those two

 

[Kitamerby]

fix'd for usmash, but Samus's downb is pretty useful IMO. gives great aerial mobility to prevent juggling, nails lingering edgestallers,helps recovery, serves as a psuedoroll, etc.

certainly below average, but still better than yoshi's IMO

...
No?

It cannot function as a roll. It does not affect aerial mobility, and merely stalls. The projectile is time-based, so nobody will ever get hit. Nobody in their right mind lingers on the edge after the invincibility wears off, CRAP DAMAGE, NO KNOCKBACK, etc.

It's only realistic use is aiding recovery slightly, and stalling against juggler who stupidly uses his second jump. Hell, there's too much lag to even punish a juggler due to how long she stays in ball mode.


That makes it a horrible move overall, MUCH worse than Jet Hammer, MUCH worse than Double Team, and MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than Yoshi Bomb, which at least kills at ~100%!

 

[viparagon]

...
No?

It cannot function as a roll. It does not affect aerial mobility, and merely stalls. The projectile is time-based, so nobody will ever get hit. Nobody in their right mind lingers on the edge after the invincibility wears off, CRAP DAMAGE, NO KNOCKBACK, etc.

It's only realistic use is aiding recovery slightly, and stalling against juggler who stupidly uses his second jump. Hell, there's too much lag to even punish a juggler due to how long she stays in ball mode.


That makes it a horrible move overall, MUCH worse than Jet Hammer, MUCH worse than Double Team, and MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than Yoshi Bomb, which at least kills at ~100%!

what use does yoshi bomb have?

and it does affect manuevarability(lulz, w/e), and if they try to ledgehop, the bomb hits them still, so its fairly legit.


speaking of which, I should add rolls!

added rolls and grabs...

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

if u got rolls might as well add sidestep


rob
d3
falco
?
?


worst:bowser? idk

if u do airdodges i know dk has the best


p.s. i think sheik should be added to list of best usmash, maybe instead of link or something

 

[brinboy789]

great!

it would be another one out of five, so I'm thinking...

1. Oli
2.D3
3.charizard
4.squirtle
5.dk

worst: yoshi

Lulz I have no idea after those two

yoshis grabs are really useful! he has all these grab release shenanigans and hisgrabs are really strong, and his pivot grab is ridiculous. i think the worst would be either ike or ganon, but ike and infinite-chain on the wall with fthrow, and dthrow > aether is pretty good, so ganon. his only good thing about hsi grabs is that his fthrow does 13%, he cant combo out of them with any grab

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

p.s.


i also think this shouldnt be about wats useful for their character, but best move in general in comparison to those other moves, standing alone.

 

[viparagon]

p.s.


i also think this shouldnt be about wats useful for their character, but best move in general in comparison to those other moves, standing alone.

thats what it is

yoshis grabs are really useful! he has all these grab release shenanigans and hisgrabs are really strong, and his pivot grab is ridiculous. i think the worst would be either ike or ganon, but ike and infinite-chain on the wall with fthrow, and dthrow > aether is pretty good, so ganon. his only good thing about hsi grabs is that his fthrow does 13%, he cant combo out of them with any grab

grab release is its own category
throws is its own category

this is merely for the actual act of grabbing. yoshi can't shield grab or dash grab. pivot grab is the saving grace, but even that has bad afterlag

if u got rolls might as well add sidestep


rob
d3
falco
?
?


worst:bowser? idk

if u do airdodges i know dk has the best


p.s. i think sheik should be added to list of best usmash, maybe instead of link or something

rly? I thought wario had the best airdodge... Is there a thread for dodging and sheilding?
I think d3 has the best sidestep...

yeah, Ill add sheik

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

explain how link's usmashes is just one of the best, if not because it helps HIM alot.


the way i look at things, is lets say u were makin a frankesntein character, what combination of moves would make him the most optimal being he could be?

 

[Barge]

Ice climbers should be at the top with olimar in the grabs.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

what use does yoshi bomb have?

and it does affect manuevarability(lulz, w/e), and if they try to ledgehop, the bomb hits them still, so its fairly legit.


speaking of which, I should add rolls!

added rolls and grabs...

Yoshi bomber can be a surprise OoS, and has the little knockup thingy like Boswer to make hitting much easier, and is a decnt kill move

Lucario has the best roll btw

 

[brinboy789]

did you notice my last post? -_-

and also, sonics DACUS goes like, REALLY far. so far, i think it takes 2nd place

 

[Barge]

Distance doesn't equal quality.
His hyphen smash already out ranges most peoples DACUS anyways.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

oh yea, u should add Glide Toss's too, distance and usefullness or w.e. u want.

 

[Barge]

It's only really useful for those who have item- gaining skills.
Peach
Rob
Diddy

Sure other characters have good glide tosses but still, how often do you use them? Unless you're facing one of those 3 characters, none.

 

[viparagon]

Yoshi bomber can be a surprise OoS, and has the little knockup thingy like Boswer to make hitting much easier, and is a decnt kill move

Lucario has the best roll btw

yes, thats why its top on the list... Point?

explain how link's usmashes is just one of the best, if not because it helps HIM alot.


the way i look at things, is lets say u were makin a frankesntein character, what combination of moves would make him the most optimal being he could be?

isn't it a great approach with DACUS? I'll bring it down tho...

Ice climbers should be at the top with olimar in the grabs.

"grab" is merely how useful the characters GRAB is... it is by no means grab game. ICs grab has terrible range

Distance doesn't equal quality.
His hyphen smash already out ranges most peoples DACUS anyways.

actually, the dacus list specifically is only for distance. if this is true, I will change it

oh yea, u should add Glide Toss's too, distance and usefullness or w.e. u want.

Isn't it just dependant on there rolls, Like DACUS to DA?

did you notice my last post? -_-

and also, sonics DACUS goes like, REALLY far. so far, i think it takes 2nd place

thanks for the info

check my edit

 

[Veril]

It's only really useful for those who have item- gaining skills.
Peach
Rob
Diddy

Sure other characters have good glide tosses but still, how often do you use them? Unless you're facing one of those 3 characters, none.

Or snake, or if you're playing on Distant Planet. Or "gasp" with the item standard play ruleset (no, seriously, its a blast...)

Its a worthwhile category.

Also, Best Double Jump: a silly category
1. Lucas (PKF and item zapjumps, wavezap)
2. Yoshi (DR)
3. Ness

 

[Barge]

Most horrible: Peach.
In the double jump, lulz.

 

[viparagon]

Or snake, or if you're playing on Distant Planet. Or "gasp" with the item standard play ruleset (no, seriously, its a blast...)

Its a worthwhile category.

Also, Best Double Jump: a silly category
1. Lucas (PKF and item zapjumps, wavezap)
2. Yoshi (DR)
3. Ness

interesting, but its not a "move" per se

 

[DanGR]

Grabs- This encompasses the speed, range, and other qualities of standing grabs, running grabs, pivotgrabs, and shieldgrabs in relation to the character's speed and size.

1. Olimar
2. DDD
3. MK
4. Charizard?
5. ?

Worst- IC definitely

edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196207

 

[Ussi]

Zelda has the best spot dodge.

 

[viparagon]

really? is there a chart somewhere?

@dangr

thanks for the grab data... What's so beast about MKs tho...

 

[Barge]

Grabs- This encompasses the speed, range, and other qualities of standing grabs, running grabs, pivotgrabs, and shieldgrabs in relation to the character's speed and size.

1. Olimar
2. DDD
3. MK
4. Charizard?
5. ?

Worst- IC definitely

edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196207

Ice climbers grab does suck. =/

 

[brinboy789]

really? is there a chart somewhere?

@dangr

thanks for the grab data... What's so beast about MKs tho...

MK's dgrab can sort of combo, uthrow kills @ around 180%.

IMO still doesnt deserve 3rd though...i think your list is accuraet, olimar, D3, charizard, squirtle, DK, something in that order

 

[viparagon]

MK's dgrab can sort of combo, uthrow kills @ around 180%.

IMO still doesnt deserve 3rd though...i think your list is accuraet, olimar, D3, charizard, squirtle, DK, something in that order

once again, this is simply for the act of grabbing, not what the character can do out of a grab (tho admittedly, they do match up)