Metaknight iz zo brokn!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brinboy789]

I think pit has a better gair then MK. they both autocancel, and do around the same damage, but pits glide is better then MK's (more fluid), so i would put it above MK.

i dont like quoting myself, but did you miss this?

 

[viparagon]

i dont like quoting myself, but did you miss this?

lawl, second time you had to do that...
I luv how ur trying to move metaknight down as far as possible ^_^

anyway, MK's is just as fast as has a substantial amount of range in front of him in comparison to pits

 

[Lord Viper]

Added worst move... this should spark some debate!

Your thread will have ten pages of random replies if that happens, lol.

But still, I don't understand why people can't agree that Kirby's Basic-B is one of the best, it's been that way since SSB64. Oh well, I guess people have they reasons. =/

 

[Airgemini]

Zelda's SideB is awsome...I dont know why its not on the SideB list.

Yeah maybe when the game was first released. But now it's fairly easy to avoid. On the ground you can side step, etc. And in the air all you have to do is use a aerial and it'll out prioritize it.

 

[PKNintendo]

Lucas down B is terrible. Take it out of of the top 3.

DK doesn't have above average grab releases... Put Peach over him. Her grab releases>AAcombo>Regrab on some characters are killer. Plus she infinites Wario out of his DJ.

And Marth is up there because of Ness amirite? I am peeved. His CG (before EIDI) and No Grab (EIDI)
doesn't warrent grab releases.

 

[viparagon]

Lucas down B is terrible. Take it out of of the top 3.

DK doesn't have above average grab releases... Put Peach over him. Her grab releases>AAcombo>Regrab on some characters are killer. Plus she infinites Wario out of his DJ.

And Marth is up there because of Ness amirite? I am peeved. His CG (before EIDI) and No Grab (EIDI)
doesn't warrent grab releases.

I pretty much just copy/pasted that, but w/e consider it fix'd. Lucas's DB is aamazing. Its great with b-sticking and can stall, heal double damage, greatly helps his recovery, stalls, and attacks up close.

 

[Hype]

I think marth has the best up B. maybe 2nd to MK.

Seriously marth's up B is amazing. when you up B OoS you can directly from a shield > invincability frame > attack frame. that **** is broken.

dolphin slash has the same properties as MK's shuttle loop because they both have really high knockback at low percents (relative to other moves) but the knockback slowly increases. so basically it can kill quite early from the edge of the stage.

 

[Judge Judy]

^Same with Mario's Up B except Mario's trades some knockback for a safer landing.

 

[viparagon]

neither are very good for recovery,though,where pikachu's shines. qac is beast too

 

[Kisamealex3]

Din's Fire is overrated and Kirby's hammer has tremendous startup and ending lag.

Overrated? If all you can say in you defence is "[so & so] is overrated" then this debate wont get anywhere.

In my defence:

Kirby's Hammer does have a certain amount of lag, not "Tremendous". However, its killing potenial is up there, and it can top off a "Wall of Pain" and other combo's. And it has less lag then Charizards sideB with just as much needed knockback.

Zelda's SideB is great. The hit box is amazingly huge and it is one of the best projectiles in the game, and if not it still should be in the top list of projectiles. Furthermore, you need to base these "top 10 moves" off of the actual character as well. Using Din's Fire after a Bair/Fair (sweetspot) with zelda is about 36% damage rack up.

And even then it is a fast projectile with a large hitbox. I'd say its good enough to be in the top 10.

 

[Airgemini]

Zelda's SideB is great. The hit box is amazingly huge and it is one of the best projectiles in the game, and if not it still should be in the top list of projectiles. Furthermore, you need to base these "top 10 moves" off of the actual character as well.
And even then it is a fast projectile with a large hitbox. I'd say its good enough to be in the top 10.

Zelda's Din's Fire is very easy to avoid. Most aerial attacks out prioritize it in the air. On the ground just sheild.

Using Din's Fire after a Bair/Fair (sweetspot) with zelda is about 36% damage rack up.

A smart player could avoid this most of the time.

Unless you're playing on WiFi with lots of lag this attack isnt much of a threat.

 

[Judge Judy]

In my defence:

Kirby's Hammer does have a certain amount of lag, not "Tremendous". However, its killing potenial is up there, and it can top off a "Wall of Pain" and other combo's. And it has less lag then Charizards sideB with just as much needed knockback.

Meh, still not in the top 10.

Zelda's SideB is great. The hit box is amazingly huge and it is one of the best projectiles in the game, and if not it still should be in the top list of projectiles. Furthermore, you need to base these "top 10 moves" off of the actual character as well. Using Din's Fire after a Bair/Fair (sweetspot) with zelda is about 36% damage rack up.

And even then it is a fast projectile with a large hitbox. I'd say its good enough to be in the top 10.

Might be better than DK's side B, but Din's fire is very easy to dodge and/or block and it puts Zelda into helpless; great projectile in itself, but just not that great of a move overall.

 

[viparagon]

Over rated? if all you can say in you defence is "[so & so] is overrated" then this debate wont get anywhere.

In my defence:

Kirby's Hammer does have a certain amount of lag, not "Tremendous". However, its killing potenial is up there, and it can top off a "Wall of Pain" and other combo's. And it has less lag then Charizards sideB with just as much needed knockback.

Zelda's SideB is great. The hit box is amazingly huge and it is one of the best projectiles in the game, and if not it still should be in the top list of projectiles. Furthermore, you need to base these "top 10 moves" off of the actual character as well. Using Din's Fire after a Bair/Fair (sweetspot) with zelda is about 36% damage rack up.

And even then it is a fast projectile with a large hitbox. I'd say its good enough to be in the top 10.

its lag IS huge. Aerial hammer is onyl useful aftera low % fthrow, and then there are better options.

zelda's side b is good, but veryy easy to dodge/sheild and is easly outclassed my faco, pit and lucario (even mario >_>) not nearly top ten.

EDIT: oh thanks judge

EDITEDIT:and airgemini >.<

 

[Kisamealex3]

Zelda's Din's Fire is very easy to avoid. Most aerial attacks out prioritize it in the air. On the ground just sheild.


A smart player could avoid this most of the time.

Unless you're playing on WiFi with lots of lag this attack isnt much of a threat.

Meh, still not in the top 10.



Might be better than DK's side B, but Din's fire is very easy to dodge and/or block and it puts Zelda into helpless; great projectile in itself, but just not that great of a move overall.

its lag IS huge. Aerial hammer is onyl useful aftera low % fthrow, and then there are better options.

zelda's side b is good, but veryy easy to dodge/sheild and is easly outclassed my faco, pit and lucario (even mario >_>) not nearly top ten.

EDIT: oh thanks judge

EDITEDIT:and airgemini >.<

Ok...I'm convinced. But, a portion of my opinion still stands.

 

[viparagon]

Ok...I'm convinced. But, a portion of my opinion still stands.

Sooooo.... how bout those worst moves?

 

[Airgemini]

However there are 3 things that struck out to me.

Fsmash:
I'd switch Zelda and Luigi around. Zelda's is incredibely easy to SDI out of and Luigi's is a major killer, It KOs most of the cast below 100%

Dsmash:
I think Jigglypuff should replace Snake as the worst. It has zero range and you can hardly ever find a situation to use it. At least Snakes gives him a bit stage control, in addition to the gernades, and C4s.

Down B:
How is Peach NOT up there? Without them she would practically be nothing imo. The chance of pulling out Bombs, Beamswords, Mr. Saturns, and A stitchface (up to 41% damage!) is incredibely awesome. She also has many ATs to these. Glide tossing, Turnip fee pull, Turnip ledge cancel, etc. I think it at least deserves to be in tenth if not lower.

 

[Kisamealex3]

Sooooo.... how bout those worst moves?

-_-

No need to be a **** about my opinion. And there not "the worst", just, according to you there not top 10.

 

[viparagon]

-_-

No need to be a **** about my opinion. And there not "the worst", just, according to you there not top 10.

LOL

Look at my original list! I added a "worst move" for each category!
No hard feelings ^_^

However there are 3 things that struck out to me.

Fsmash:
I'd switch Zelda and Luigi around. Zelda's is incredibely easy to SDI out of and Luigi's is a major killer, It KOs most of the cast below 100%

Dsmash:
I think Jigglypuff should replace Snake as the worst. It has zero range and you can hardly ever find a situation to use it. At least Snakes gives him a bit stage control, in addition to the gernades, and C4s.

Down B:
How is Peach NOT up there? Without them she would practically be nothing imo. The chance of pulling out Bombs, Beamswords, Mr. Saturns, and A stitchface (up to 41% damage!) is incredibely awesome. 1/400 is incredibly awsome?She also has many ATs to these. Glide tossing, Turnip fee pull, Turnip ledge cancel, etc. I think it at least deserves to be in tenth if not lower.

Me too ^_^

yeah, I was deeply torn between snake and jigglypuff... jiggz escapes it because of the rediculous angle it sends you at, + spotdodge dsmash works well for it.
i'll check the list for peach to see if she gets on, but turnips are honestly not as good as they were in melee...

 

[Judge Judy]

Down B: How is Peach NOT up there? Without them she would practically be nothing imo. The chance of pulling out Bombs, Beamswords, Mr. Saturns, and A stitchface (up to 41% damage!) is incredibely awesome. She also has many ATs to these. Glide tossing, Turnip fee pull, Turnip ledge cancel, etc. I think it at least deserves to be in tenth if not lower.

Good point, Wario's should probally be taken off and Peach should be put into 10; Wario's Down B is very good but it's still situational and really only used for punishing.

 

[Kisamealex3]

LOL

Look at my original list! I added a "worst move" for each category!
No hard feelings ^_^

lol...ok thats way more gregarious. No hard feelings. I'll check it out

 

[Kitamerby]

Do you even READ your lists anymore?

I have half a mind to start up my OWN list just because you have no idea what you're doing.


Zelda's jab as the worst wtf?

I don't actually care about whether a list like this gets made or not, but I really hate to see such misinformation spread across these boards. It confuses the newbies.

 

[viparagon]

Good point, Wario's should probally be taken off and Peach should be put into 10; Wario's Down B is very good but it's still situational and really only used for punishing.

i don't know, spotdodge>42 damage seems pretty good to me...
its like MK's on 'roids

Do you even READ your lists anymore?

I have half a mind to start up my OWN list just because you have no idea what you're doing.


Zelda's jab as the worst wtf?

I don't actually care about whether a list like this gets made or not, but I really hate to see such misinformation spread across these boards. It confuses the newbies.

Sorry u feel so insulted by my stupidity !

Who do u think has the worst? there was a thread on the worst jab a while back and zelda's was the most common response...

 

[Judge Judy]

i don't know, spotdodge>42 damage seems pretty good to me...
its like MK's on 'roids

Still very situational though, plus the fart cloud counts as a projectile so it can be reflected.

 

[Kitamerby]

Sorry u feel so insulted by my stupidity !

Who do u think has the worst? there was a thread on the worst jab a while back and zelda's was the most common response...

Jigglypuff anyone? Also, there's a reason that everyone's telling you that Pit's Fsmash is NOT the best, and why people are still saying it.

 

[viparagon]

Still very situational though, plus the fart cloud counts as a projectile so it can be reflected.

RLY? I didn't know that! can we cape it?

the fart can also be charged halfway or 3/4s of the way to kill at very low percents. and who's going to bring the reflector out point blank anyway? the only chars that have use for a melee reflector are mario and pit...

Jigglypuff anyone? Also, there's a reason that everyone's telling you that Pit's Fsmash is NOT the best, and why people are still saying it.

*facepalm*, yeah jigglys is pretty bad and i'll probably change it, but zefda's comes out on like frame 12... wats up with that?

Even though most people say it isn't the best, as many people have said it is as said it isn't; the problem is that there is not a general consensus: ive heard pit, wario, lucario, lucas, kirby,g&w, marth, and DK, all of which are on the list.

 

[Kisamealex3]

Yoshi's DownB isnt the worst. And Zelda's Jab isnt the worst either. All of the jabs are good and usable. I cant really think of a "worst" jab. But, Zelda's jab is pretty bad. I main her and I rarely use it.

 

[Judge Judy]

RLY? I didn't know that! can we cape it?

the fart can also be charged halfway or 3/4s of the way to kill at very low percents. and who's going to bring the reflector out point blank anyway? the only chars that have use for a melee reflector are mario and pit...

I can see your point but it's still very situational, almost as situational as landing a fully charged G&W bucket.

 

[viparagon]

I can see your point but it's still very situational, almost as situational as landing a fully charged G&W bucket.

I really can't see either of those as situational...

just spotdodge or use OoS>bucket/fart just as you would a dsmash

 

[Judge Judy]

I really can't see either of those as situational...

just spotdodge or use OoS>bucket/fart just as you would a dsmash

The Waft takes a lot of time to charge limiting your options with it; it's a nice ace-in-the-hole but it doesn't really have any use outside that. G&W's bucket is in the same boat because most opponents will be careful enough not to directly feed the bucket, plus using the bucket is risky against some characters because of its ending lag.

 

[viparagon]

The Waft takes a lot of time to charge limiting your options with it; it's a nice ace-in-the-hole but it doesn't really have any use outside that. G&W's bucket is in the same boat because most opponents will be careful enough not to directly feed the bucket, plus using the bucket is risky against some characters because of its ending lag.

ah. but u said a fart and a FULLY CHARGED bucket were situational. I thought you maent precharged.

a minute- charged waft means about 3 per match, and it is one of warios best KO moves b/c it comes out so fast...

 

[TP]

Are there any Utilts that are NEVER used? Because Ganon's is actually useful once every match or two.

Also, is Lucas' PK Freeze never, ever used? Because Ganon's Warlock Punch is truly worthless. The only time it is EVER good is if the opponents shield breaks, and even then, Ganon has plenty of other moves that will usually get the job done.

 

[Judge Judy]

ah. but u said a fart and a FULLY CHARGED bucket were situational. I thought you maent precharged.

I meant to amply that getting a bucket fully charged in the first place is situational.

a minute- charged waft means about 3 per match, and it is one of warios best KO moves b/c it comes out so fast...

A minute is still a long time, and because of that it will often be an unreliable option; you'll probally only land it once or twice a match, if at all.

 

[viparagon]

I meant to amply that getting a bucket fully charged in the first place is situational.

A minute is still a long time, and because of that it will often be an unreliable option; you'll probally only land it once or twice a match, if at all.

that's probably one or two stocks tho ^_^

Are there any Utilts that are NEVER used? Because Ganon's is actually useful once every match or two.

Also, is Lucas' PK Freeze never, ever used? Because Ganon's Warlock Punch is truly worthless. The only time it is EVER good is if the opponents shield breaks, and even then, Ganon has plenty of other moves that will usually get the job done.

LOL when does ganon's utilt have a use? warlock punch is ganon's best option when a shield breaks, which get's rid of utilt's one use

 

[da K.I.D.]

sonics jab is the worst in the game, it has crap range, it does crap damage, and can be jabed out of if the sonic doesnt do it right, and it doesnt combo into ANYTHING AT ALL.

it is the worse, change it now

 

[viparagon]

sonics jab is the worst in the game, it has crap range, it does crap damage, and can be jabed out of if the sonic doesnt do it right, and it doesnt combo into ANYTHING AT ALL.

it is the worse, change it now

worse than jiggz or zelda's?

 

[da K.I.D.]

im inclined to say that either warios or samuss f-air is the worst
and yes sonics is worse zeldas at least has damage.
JPs has more range

 

[da K.I.D.]

and i think ROBs up air is the worst cause its the easiest move to DI out of in the game and it has deceptively bad range

 

[TP]

LOL when does ganon's utilt have a use? warlock punch is ganon's best option when a shield breaks, which get's rid of utilt's one use

WAY wrong.

1) It reaches below the edge, making it good for edge gaurding.
2) It reaches like literally twice as far as the Warlock Punch.
3) It has almost no end lag at all.
4) Since nobody knows about the above points, they get hit by it or a jab right after surprisingly often.
5) Seriously. EVERY Ganon main will tell you the Utilt is better than the Punch, and many will go on to say it is better than the Dsmash. It is far from worthless.
6) I know it is still bad. I'm just saying you should not assume it is the worst without giving it some proper consideration.


Also, I know the Warlock Punch is the best option after a shield breaks. All I'm saying is that is a very rare thing, and most of the time a fully charged Fsmash will also kill them.

 

[viparagon]

I'd put sonics third, b/c it doesn't come out frame 12 like zelda's and doesn't trade hits like jiggs and has the same range as jiggs


And samus's fair is really good. its has great range, autocancels, will do 18 damage together, is a grreat way to get back on the edge, and can often combo/lead

 

[-Mars-]

im inclined to say that either warios or samuss f-air is the worst
and yes sonics is worse zeldas at least has damage.
JPs has more range

Wario and Samus' fairs have excellent priority and Samus' is disjointed.