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Metaknight iz zo brokn!!!!!!!!!!!!

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V

viparagon

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Twilight_Prince said:
WAY wrong.

1) It reaches below the edge, making it good for edge gaurding.
2) It reaches like literally twice as far as the Warlock Punch.
3) It has almost no end lag at all.
4) Since nobody knows about the above points, they get hit by it or a jab right after surprisingly often.
5) Seriously. EVERY Ganon main will tell you the Utilt is better than the Punch, and many will go on to say it is better than the Dsmash. It is far from worthless.
6) I know it is still bad. I'm just saying you should not assume it is the worst without giving it some proper consideration.


Also, I know the Warlock Punch is the best option after a shield breaks. All I'm saying is that is a very rare thing, and most of the time a fully charged Fsmash will also kill them.
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none of those points matter AT ALL.

1. who cares? they'll just get back up or still have invinibility frames
2. who cares? its twice as slow, which is saying something
3.who cares? they can attack you doing the IIRC 45 frames of start up
4. fail
5.who cares?
6.good for u. who's is worse:confused:
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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Ganon's utilt actually can be used for edge guarding. You might as well use it if there's no chance of you being punished. Like Twilight said there's no ending lag so throwing an utilt out when your opponents off the ledge isn't bad at all. Think of it as a low risk/ high reward type move.
 
Mr.Victory07

Mr.Victory07

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viparagon said:
top ten jabs

worst: jigglypuffAgreed, its trash

Top ten fsmash's

worst: squirtle I think Peach(frying pan) is the worst, it doesnt really acomplish anything, with ZSS very close behind(atleast hers can KO

top ten upsmashes

worst: jigglypuffBeleive it or not, it has its uses with DACUS. Worst IMO goes to either Ness for its sad damage/knockback output, Lucario for lag and difficulty to hit, and MK

top ten dsmashes

worst: snakeNope, this one definitely goes to Ivysaur, his d-smash barely has the knockback of a typical f=tilt

dash attack

worst luigiLuigi's has a pretty good pop at the end, so i dont think its the worst. Worst i think goes to Wario, it leaves you pretty open

ftilt

worst: olimarAgreed, although pople like Pika have similarly bad ones

utilt

worst: ganonIt works alot more often than you'd think, but yeah its still the worst

dtilt

worst: marioIts been the worst since SS64

fair

worst: yoshidefinetly not, its a decent spike with a grab relese combo. I would have to say Wario, even with its priority, as it just has no knockback. Luigi, Sheik and DK come close too
uair

worst: linkThis one goes to Charizard , his u-air's range is dreadful

bair

worst: bowser While laggy, his bair is still great for KOs. The worst is probably Link or Ivysaur, although Ivy's is useful for spacing

dair

worst: zelda Its a really powerful sweetspoted spike. Worst dair is ZSS, its really laggy and KOs you if you use it to spike

nair

worst: charizard No, worst is definetly Samus. Shame, is it was one of her best moves in melee

Up+b

worst: jigglypuff Yeah, pretty correct here

Sideb

worst: squirtle Well it helps to recover and he's invulnerable in it, so i think its a tie between him and Capt Falcon. Raptor boost is impossible to combo with and can kill you

neutral b

worst: lucas Ness or Lucas, one is faster one is stronger

Zair (Top 5)

worst: lucas

down+b

worst: yoshi Probably Sonic, his side B accomplishes everything this odes and more. I would also Say sheik/Zelda, if you dont like the other half
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My 2 cents...
 
ShadowLink84

ShadowLink84

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da K.I.D. said:
sonics jab is the worst in the game, it has crap range, it does crap damage, and can be jabed out of if the sonic doesnt do it right, and it doesnt combo into ANYTHING AT ALL.

it is the worse, change it now
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You can only get jabbed out of it if you try to press A like a ****** instead of holing it down.
The range and damage is rather average.

no character really comboes into anything.
Jab canceled attacks are not true combos and can be shielded or dodged.
There is not one jab that really comboes into anything to my current knowledge.
 
M15t3R E

M15t3R E

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Okay... my disagreements:

Pit is still #1 in f-smashes? Many have already disagreed with you on this. I think you're being stubborn. It lacks range and is punishable if it misses or is shielded.
How the hell is Snake's d-smash the worst in the game? It's really good!
Pikachu's u-tilt has even better combo potential than Fox's. How is it not even in the top 10?
Pikachu's d-tilt has immense range and cannot be punished when spaced well. It should be in the top 10.
Pikachu's fair chains into u-tilts, nairs, d-smashes, and other moves very well. One of the best character moves for comboing in the entire game. It's like a crime not to put it in the top 10.
How is Yoshi's fair the worst in the game?! It can serve as a meteor smash! It's a pretty decent fair.
Make your throw categories top 10 like all the other categories and put Pikachu's d-throw in there somewhere due to its great comboing potential.
Pikachu probably doesn't deserve to be in the top 10 for u-throws, lol.
 
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Ballistaboy

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Lucarios Fsmash has ISAI frames, is a tipper, can come out extremely fast from air combos. No lag nairs and canceled dairs. It also gets increasingly stronger as his aura increases.

Pit has a nice Fsmash but it is not that great, His is useful, quick and combo ready, and does nice damage, but for Lucario it is a godsend, it is a great kill move, spacer and dodge punisher. I think It should be #1
 
J

Judge Judy

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Ballistaboy said:
Lucarios Fsmash has ISAI frames, is a tipper, can come out extremely fast from air combos. No lag nairs and canceled dairs. It also gets increasingly stronger as his aura increases.

Pit has a nice Fsmash but it is not that great, His is useful, quick and combo ready, and does nice damage, but for Lucario it is a godsend, it is a great kill move, spacer and dodge punisher. I think It should be #1
Click to expand...
Lucario's Fsmash has great range, KO power, and is disjointed but I don't think it should be #1 because of its large startup lag...then again, I don't really think Pit's Fsmash should really be #1 either.
 
philbobjoe

philbobjoe

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Ballistaboy said:
Lucarios Fsmash has ISAI frames, is a tipper, can come out extremely fast from air combos. No lag nairs and canceled dairs. It also gets increasingly stronger as his aura increases.

Pit has a nice Fsmash but it is not that great, His is useful, quick and combo ready, and does nice damage, but for Lucario it is a godsend, it is a great kill move, spacer and dodge punisher. I think It should be #1
Click to expand...
ISAI frames! Wow, can it not be hit? Jk.

I believe you meant IASA frames.
 
V

viparagon

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philbobjoe said:
ISAI frames! Wow, can it not be hit? Jk.

I believe you meant IASA frames.
Click to expand...
actually, it is almost impossible to counter if space prpoerly: perhaps it does have ISAI frames:laugh:!

as i've said before, their isn't a consensus for fsmash. Some saay pit, some wario, some lucario, some lucas, some kirby.


The fact that yoshi's useful b/c of the grab release is a function of the grab release not the fair. yoshi woulod be better off with Mario's, which is also very bad. No competent opponent willl ever get hit by yoshi's fair. It lacks the speed, power, and especially the range that make aerilas good ( the foe has to be INSIDE yoshis hurtbox to hit, and the spikee is even more difficult to pull off.
 
PKNintendo

PKNintendo

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I would move Ness into the best down tilts. (10 or 9) And best Upsmashes( 6-7)
Ness uptilt combo's in a similar fashion to Mario and Luigi.

Ness dair is amazing. It should be 4-5.
Bair should be there too. (8 or 9. It's definetely better than Pit's by far)
Ness uair should right below Wario. It's KO power is similar to Wario (KO's 10% later)

Peach's jab should be number 3 or 4. It can lead into SOO Many CG it's not funny. Why is Marth still in top 4 grab releases.

HE ONLY GRAB RELEASE DOWNSMASHES NESS! (I think Lucas can shield the downsmash with EIDI not sure though)

Ness forward throw should be number 3. It deals good damage (11%+pummels) and it's set distance is great. Ness upthrow should also be up there. (good damage+combo ability)

Wario has the best down B undisputed.

For 55 secs you get an aerial ground killer similar to the Donkey Punch. (2 minute charge sucks)
It's knockback is ridiculous, it can be used on the defense, it can edge guard, you can stall then use it, there are MANY ways to use it. number 1 for sure.

Below Lucas' are you kidding me? Even the Lucas main think it sucks now.

I also agree that Pit shouldn't be number one for Fsmash.
 
M

Martselsoep

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ShadowLink84 said:
You can only get jabbed out of it if you try to press A like a ****** instead of holing it down.
The range and damage is rather average.

no character really comboes into anything.
Jab canceled attacks are not true combos and can be shielded or dodged.
There is not one jab that really comboes into anything to my current knowledge.
Click to expand...
Lucarios jab to sideB
 
Mr.Victory07

Mr.Victory07

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PKNintendo said:
Why is Marth still in top 4 grab releases.

HE ONLY GRAB RELEASE DOWNSMASHES NESS! (I think Lucas can shield the downsmash with EIDI not sure though)
Click to expand...
The grab release lists arent just for chaingrabs, Marth has great options out of a grab release(Dolphin Slash, Dancing Blade ect.)
 
V

viparagon

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Mr.Victory07 said:
The grab release lists arent just for chaingrabs, Marth has great options out of a grab release(Dolphin Slash, Dancing Blade ect.)
Click to expand...
he still chain grabs ness, grab release Dsmash's him, and has grab release shenanigans on many chars, including MK


Does anyone know how to do a poll? It would be interesting to see who players think have the best fsmash if it isn't pit.

oh, and I just noticed views for this page are OVER 9000! :laugh:
 
Glick

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Jigglypuffs upsmash is a pretty average killer. Its not the worst in the game or anything. Once she uses a DACUS up smash its amazing.

Yoshis down b is incredible if you don't get predictable with it. So, your WAY off with that.
 
V

viparagon

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Glick said:
Jigglypuffs upsmash is a pretty average killer. Its not the worst in the game or anything. Once she uses a DACUS up smash its amazing.

Yoshis down b is incredible if you don't get predictable with it. So, your WAY off with that.
Click to expand...
yeah, i never said it wasn't useless, only I have trouble thinking of a worser move... Remember, no transformations, etc. and DC is pretty iffy b/c of IDC.
 
demodemo

demodemo

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what the hell

zelda's dair is most definitely not the worst, goooooshhhh it is insulting that it is there whaaaaaat

if anything the worst dair belongs the sheik, zelda's dair is actually pretty good -_____-;

edit- sheik/zeldas down b is one of the best. a move that completely refreshes your moves? too good.
 
V

viparagon

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demodemo said:
what the hell

zelda's dair is most definitely not the worst, goooooshhhh it is insulting that it is there whaaaaaat

if anything the worst dair belongs the sheik, zelda's dair is actually pretty good -_____-;

edit- sheik/zeldas down b is one of the best. a move that completely refreshes your moves? too good.
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LOL look at the post above yours.

at least shieks provides a relatively reliable way to get back down.

Zelda's is SO hard to sweetspot and has no range
 
PKNintendo

PKNintendo

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viparagon said:
he still chain grabs ness, grab release Dsmash's him, and has grab release shenanigans on many chars, including MK


Does anyone know how to do a poll? It would be interesting to see who players think have the best fsmash if it isn't pit.

oh, and I just noticed views for this page are OVER 9000! :laugh:
Click to expand...
Um no he doesn't. Ya Marth can stay there, but just so you know, he can't CG with EIDI.
 
demodemo

demodemo

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:| i swear it isn't that hard to sweetspot but yeah i admit if you can't sweetspot its not the best move. imo its not that the move is bad, its just zelda has better options, and its hard to go offstage with a recovery like zelda's.

i still say sheik's the worst! reliable way to get down? pfft there is too much landing lag, all that it is good for is its somewhat good priority.

edit- hold on, why isn't link's dair on the list? not enoguh room? imo its pretty **** good, great priority, insane knockback, just lots of landing lag
 
B0mbe1c

B0mbe1c

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Pit for number one Fsmash.. seriously? =/
Zelda dair still does something if not sweet-spotted.
 
popsofctown

popsofctown

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demo demo is right, Sheik's dair is far worse than Zelda's. For one, if the Zelda is skilled there is no reason she shouldn't sweetspot forced trajectory recoveries every single time, like D3, Kirby, Ike, Samus, Link, etc. It's tough but i do it. Sheik can't dair anyone off stage, period.

At low percents, the sourspot isn't a great spike, but at high percents like 110% on DK, you can dair someone and it will be enough to kill them. I've got tons of sourspot spikes on characters with bad vertical recovery. A lot of the cast does not have to be sweetspotted to be killed.

Sheik's dair does not actually provide her a reliable way to get back to the stage. When you get to the stage with it, you have ten years of landing lag. The whole cast can punish that. All sheiks I've seen, including me, prefer to fast fall to the stage and defend themselves with nair and airdodges.

Btw, it now occurs to me that Bowser's dair is even worse. It's multihit, and the hit that actually does knockback never comes out unless you use the move from very very high up. It has twenty years of landing lag, and I've read threads in the bowser boards where they scream "Never ever ever use dair!!"

Sheik's nair has more use than that, you can use it to predict someone that's going to dash attack you when you land, and use it then to cancel your falling momentum so they whiff, then you hit them. This gets me... 9% damage everyother match i play. There's similar mindgames in midair combat, when someone's charging an upsmash, etc. Bowser's dair doesn't cancel momentum.
 
MRTW113

MRTW113

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brinboy789 said:
bowsers side b is good
jiggs only use for dair is drillrest
PLEASE take tlink dair off. it sucks. BADLY. it only spikes on the first portion of the attack, if you miss your screwed, and its preeety easy to miss. the only really guaranteed way to hit it is with footstoll, and you can do with with every spike. take it off.PLEASE.
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Yeah, tink's dair is a little overrated. It's risks are greater than benefits,especially with the ending lag and stuff.
 
Ripple

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yoshi's fair is not even close to the worst

its falco's
 
B0mbe1c

B0mbe1c

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Internet. Serious Business.

Besides that, Falcos Fair is horrible. Tons of landing lag, and only the last hit has knockback. :(
 
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