Metaknight iz zo brokn!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dantroid225]

Squirtles down throw should probably be on the list

 

[viparagon]

Hi B0mb. =3

D3s Bair is nice(it lags more than DK/TL), but TL and DK can bair twice in one SH. Also, TLs bair is a combo at low percents, and can lead to a meteor if you are near the edge.

actually, d3 can fit two in a short hop too...

Squirtles down throw should probably be on the list

Why? What does it do?

 

[B0mbe1c]

Squirtles dthrow can kill at like 110 or 120, it is too good. D3 can Full hop 2 bairs.. (If he can bair twice in a sh, he still has ending lag with the second one).

 

[dantroid225]

yeah: Squirtle is to dthrow as Ness is to bthrow

 

[B0mbe1c]

Ivysaurs Usmash is complete ****. There is no way he CANT be in the top 10. -_-

 

[Advance]

Ivysaurs Usmash is complete ****. There is no way he CANT be in the top 10. -_-

With that logic I'd have to vote for Squirtle's usmash and Charizard's Fsmash

 

[B0mbe1c]

Charizards Usmash is already up there, but I find IVys and Squirtles way better. >.>
Charizards fmash is ok, too slow.

 

[Advance]

Charizards Usmash is already up there, but I find IVys and Squirtles way better. >.>
Charizards fmash is ok, too slow.

I think how powerful it is and how it can be used easily though makes up for it. You can knock someone off really easy.
Char's Usmash isn't that great :U

 

[Ripple]

I think you should change zair to teather so you can have everybody on it.

 

[viparagon]

I think you should change zair to teather so you can have everybody on it.

yeah, but thats not really a zair, and all the other attacks are grouped in their own category

 

[Binx]

I think Lucario's dair is better than MKs because it's more disjointed faster and it can be used to stop momentum so he can live to higher percents, metaknight just makes better use a worse dair because he has so many short jumps he can spam it like that.

Sheiks uptilt is better than Mario's

 

[ShadowLink84]

I think Lucario's dair is better than MKs because it's more disjointed faster and it can be used to stop momentum so he can live to higher percents, metaknight just makes better use a worse dair because he has so many short jumps he can spam it like that.

Sheiks uptilt is better than Mario's

Mk's semispikes which is sexy.

 

[Samuelson]

How come the throws are out of 5 and not 10?

 

[viparagon]

Mk's semispikes which is sexy.

yeah, mk's dair is like the ultimate gimper. the angleis BELOW horizontal, and it has like no lag. Its VERY close though

 

[viparagon]

How come the throws are out of 5 and not 10?

its too hard to get ten

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Getting better, but here are some personal problems i still have with it

top ten jabs

1.ike
2.snake
3.captain falcon
4. falco
5.lucario
6.kirby Move down a bit or out, not the best multihit jab;there are better like Fox's or Sheik
7.squirtle
8.zamus
9.peachOut, its not really thats special, only quick; include Lucas, it's as quick and has more umph to it
10.link


Top ten fsmash's

1.pit (NO COMMENTZ PLZ! if u really want to know why, take the effort to look through a few pages, THX)Not going to comment...
2.lucario
3.wario
4. lucas
5.kirby
6.G&WIn front of Kirby, its to powerful for its own good
7.wolf
8.donkey kong
9.zeldaOut, can be Di'd which isnt good
10. luigi
consider charizard, Bowser(both have that pullback and are very strong) and Falco

top ten upsmashes

1. fox
2.olimar
3.snake
4.zelda
5.G&WMove down or out, Lucas'/Ivysaur's are similar and have more range/power, respectively
6.peachToo situational, switch with Charizard
7.link
8.charizard
9.marth
10.ICsDefinitaly not anything special, pretty slow with average power, switch with Squirtle for its speed, power and mindgames with shell-shifting
Also conider DK, has the speed and slightly is slightly more powerful than Fox's iirc, but its tough to land

top ten dsmashes

1.metaknight
2. G&W
3.zss
4.robSwitch with Wolf, about the same speed but this one will never KO
5.wolf
6.donkey kong
7.zelda
8.ics
9.pikachuREALLY easily DI'd out of, i dont know anyone still hit by this. Move up tlink and put in Lucario or Charixard
10.tlink

dash attack

1.snake
2.diddyOther than grabbing bannaa, its not special at all; down or out; Ness' does the same exact thing as this but better
3.ganon
4.kirby
5.ness
6.sonic
7.falcoAgain, really not special at all, Out.
8.mk
9.peach
10.zss
Consider DDD's for its range, power and that little pause which makes it not so hard to hit,

ftilt

1.snake
2.shiek
3. d3Range, not much else. Below DK
4.mk
5.robSwap with Bowser, his is more powerful with similar execution
6.bowser
7.DKAbove Bowser, great reach and priorety
8.lucasOut, horrible reach
9.squirtleThis one's not special at all; out
10.ikeMove up, atleast past 8
Put in Ganondorf, it is strong with a great trajectory. Also Link's is worthy

utilt

1.snake
2.foxMove down, only combos at low % and isnt more special than the other jugglers here
3.d3
4.peachPretty tough to connect, and not very useful. Move down
5.pit
6.kirby
7.lucario
8.marioDefinitaly above Kirby, it juggles like theres no tommorow
9.bowser
10.dk
Consider Zelda for its power and ZSS too

dtilt

1.MKhmm, im not sure about this one. Leave it for now i guess
2.donkey kong
3. marth
4.G&Wdown a spot, not too great
5.rob
6.charizard
7.zelda
8.d3
9.Ivysaur
10.samusMove up past Ivy, its got more KO potential than that
Consider Ness/Lucas for there super quick, damaging d-tilts

fair

1.marth
2.mk
3.ness
4. G&Wmove down a spot or two, its only good for KOing
5.squirltemove down or out, its reach is pretty pathetic and is outclassed by Jigg's(even not WOPing)
6.ROB
7.lucario
8.peach
9.Ike
10.diddyTake out for Zelda, her lighting kick is such a better KO move than this
Consider the Knee, just because its the Knee. And Fox's, it does great damage

uair

1.MKI dont see why everyone thinks its so great, its just a weak little slash. Move down IMO
2.olimar
3.G&Wthe floaty factor is useful, but not this useful
4. d3
5.wario
6.marthDown or out, i find it really hard to connect with
7.Captain Falcon
8.zamus
9. ganon
10.marioNot spectacular, put in DK's for the great speed and strength
Also consider IC's, it juggles really well and does like 16%

bair

1.G&W
2.DK
3. tlink
4.D3
5.lugi
6.wolf
7.yoshiAbove Luigi, its soooo useful for Yoshi, and is just like G&Ws
8.mario
9.falcoOut, Zelda and Pit's are stronger
10.pitMove up one, put in Zelda here
Maybe swap out Mario for ZSS, its her strongest aerial and KOs nicely

dair

1.MK
2.lucario
3.wario
4.peach
5.falcoMove down, there are better spikes(namely Ganon's)
6.g&w
7.fox
8.ganonDefinitely second or third, its a crime to be this low. 1.It does 23% and combos into itself for a quick 40%+ 2. Its the most practical spike(disjointed, quick and strong) and 3. It KO's on stage excellently
9.D3
10.Jiggs
Consider Snake for its great strength, DK for its super powerful spike, and Yoshi's for the great damage it racks up

nair

1.ROB
2.MKNot really spectacular, 4th below Marth
3.luigi
4.marth
5.tlink
6.G&W
7.ike
8.snakeMove up 1 past Ike, it traps you and KOs well
9.ness
10.yoshiOut, kinda strong but not really. Put in Pit for the great damage it racks up. Wario's also KOs better iirc

Up+b

1.MK
2.PikachuEh, maybe move down? QAC is useful though
3.rob
4.G&WNot a great attack nor recovery except for the parachute. Move down a few
5.marth
6.sonicJust lauches you, OMFG!!!. 10th
7.lugi
8.pit
9.bowser
10.marioOut, DK over these two, it 1. Has super armor 2. Is a much better recover than both of them(travels 3/4ths of FD) and can rack up to 35% on stage, and has amazing prioirty. Like, MK cant even break it
Probably should include Snake, it travels war to far to not be in

Sideb

1.Marth
2.olimar
3.zero suitIMO more useful than Dancing Blade
4.mario
5.ganon
6.bowser
7.jigglyUp above Ganon, its one of the best recoveries and is just a good, all around move
8.sonic
9.charizardDefinitely move up, im guessing you haven't seen in do 45% and KO?
10.falcoOut, not a fantastic recovery or move. Put in the bike or IC's, IC's goes just as far and does substantially more %

neutral b

1.MK
2.snakeIMO better and more crucial than the tornado
3.falco
4.pit
5.lucario
6.rob
7.wolf
8.shiek
9. wario
10.DKAbove Lucario atleast. Its ridiculously fast for its power, has super armor and can KO at around 70% if you 9-wind it
Consider Marios fireball, it's decent and Jigg's rollout, one of the strongest attacks in the game(KOs Sheik at 70%ish

Zair (Top 5)

1.samus
2.link
3.tink
4.lucas
5.young link (I needed five, okay?)


glide attack

1.Metaknight
2.pitPit's is better, MK's is just used more so people think its better
3.charizard
4.mario (Cape?)
5. ummmmm..... Meta kirby?

down+b

1.diddy kong
2.pikachuthe strong part is actually pretty tough to hit a smart player with, move down
3.lucaslol, shouldnt even be in the top 10 its so hard to hit with
4.wolf
5.ROB
6.marth
7.DKOver Marth, the reach and power this thing has...
8.wario
9.liugiyou spelled Luigi wrong, and probably put in IC's over this
10.pit
Maybe put in pokemon switch? or Rest

Fthrow

1.kirby
2.pikachu
3.DKOver Pika, very versatile with a few infinites and amazing options out of grab release
4.pitNot really special, idk why its here, can barely chaingrab. Replace with Marth, it gives alot of options
5.olimarOut, doeshe even have a strong one? Put in Wario
ICs i think should be in, for obvious reasons

Bthrow

1.ness
2.d3
3.olimar
4.DK
5.ivysaur

dthrow

1.d3
2.falco
3.squirtle
4.Ics
5.snake
Probably include G&W, somewhere

upthrow

1.olimar
2.sonic
3. pikachuNothing special about this at all, move up the other two and put in Zelda
4.kirby
5.metaknight

And may i suggest a new section, top 5 grab releases
1. Bowser
2. Yoshi
3. Marth
4. DK(out of cargo)
5.????

 

[viparagon]

Getting better, but here are some personal problems i still have with it


And may i suggest a new section, top 5 grab releases
1. Bowser
2. Yoshi
3. Marth
4. DK(out of cargo)
5.????

good idea, but IDK about No. 5... Sonic maybe?
You bring up some valid points, but alot of the stuff I disagree with. I'll move the list around tho. If you want anything explained just ask me ^_^

EDIT:marsulas explained almost everything, look down

 

[brinboy789]

I think pit has a better gair then MK. they both autocancel, and do around the same damage, but pits glide is better then MK's (more fluid), so i would put it above MK.

 

[Groovy Kong]

what the hell is D3?

 

[viparagon]

what the hell is D3?

King De(1.)De(2.)De(3.)

I should change that for new players though...

 

[-Mars-]

@Mr.Victory: What's with all the love for Pokemon Trainer and Lucas? Those characters aren't that good, hence the not-so-good moveset.

Luigi's fsmash is a lot better than Charizrd, Bowser, or Falco......it kills at 80% on most characters and is a hell of a lot faster.

Lucas'/Ivysaur's usmashes better than G&W?..........you fail. DK's usmash also is not more powerful than Foxs'.

Lucario and Charizards dsmashes suck. Pikachu's dsmash still has tons of priority and comes out fast.

Diddy's dash attack is one of the best in the game....period. ZSS' dash attack combos into her tilts, which sets up for juggling.

Links ftilt is really slow, good KO power but not much else.

Foxs' utilt comes out on frame 3 and clashes with such moves as Snakes ftilt and utilt.....please stop sounding ignorant. Peachs' utlit combos out of her grabs and beats most of the moves in the game. Kirby's utilt juggle "like there's no tomorrow" as well.

G&W's dtilt "not too great"? You just lost all credibility right there.

I could see Fox's fair being better than Diddy's.....but not Zelda's.

Mario's uair is the basis for his combo game.

You realy overvalue Zelda's lightning kicks. The KO potential is nice, but it's really hard to connect unless it's OoS. Falco's is much better.

Snake's dair has crappy priority, most characters' uairs beat it from below.

If you want to comment on how you can DI out of Zelda's fsmash......Snakes nair can be DI'ed out of as well and it's easier to do so.

Zelda's uthrow sucks.

 

[viparagon]

@Mr.Victory: What's with all the love for Pokemon Trainer and Lucas? Those characters aren't that good, hence the not-so-good moveset.

Luigi's fsmash is a lot better than Charizrd, Bowser, or Falco......it kills at 80% on most characters and is a hell of a lot faster.

Lucas'/Ivysaur's usmashes better than G&W?..........you fail. DK's usmash also is not more powerful than Foxs'.

Lucario and Charizards dsmashes suck. Pikachu's dsmash still has tons of priority and comes out fast.

Diddy's dash attack is one of the best in the game....period. ZSS' dash attack combos into her tilts, which sets up for juggling.

Links ftilt is really slow, good KO power but not much else.

Foxs' utilt comes out on frame 3 and clashes with such moves as Snakes ftilt and utilt.....please stop sounding ignorant. Peachs' utlit combos out of her grabs and beats most of the moves in the game. Kirby's utilt juggle "like there's no tomorrow" as well.

G&W's dtilt "not too great"? You just lost all credibility right there.

I could see Fox's fair being better than Diddy's.....but not Zelda's.

Mario's uair is the basis for his combo game.

You realy overvalue Zelda's lightning kicks. The KO potential is nice, but it's really hard to connect unless it's OoS. Falco's is much better.

Snake's dair has crappy priority, most characters' uairs beat it from below.

If you want to comment on how you can DI out of Zelda's fsmash......Snakes nair can be DI'ed out of as well and it's easier to do so.

Zelda's uthrow sucks.

oh thank u so much!! you explained everything I had problems with save lucas's PSI magnet.

 

[B0mbe1c]

G&Ws dtilt can be used on walls to rack up major damage, and its a semi-infinite if used right. =/
Luigis Fsmash is ****, and Diddy's Dash attack can cancel into any move, more so Utilt/Usmash. That is too good.
If both ICs are present, I believe a usmash does 20%+ un-charged.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

@Mr.Victory: What's with all the love for Pokemon Trainer and Lucas? Those characters aren't that good, hence the not-so-good moveset.
Lucas, maybe. Pokemon trainer is better than most people think

Luigi's fsmash is a lot better than Charizrd, Bowser, or Falco......it kills at 80% on most characters and is a hell of a lot faster.
I didnt mean say to replace Luigi, i meant replace Zelda and move Luigi up, maybe should have clarified

Lucas'/Ivysaur's usmashes better than G&W?..........you fail. DK's usmash also is not more powerful than Foxs'.
Im not going to go test right now, but im fairly sure they are at about the same strength, and i definitely wasnt implying its better thasn Fox's

Lucario and Charizards dsmashes suck. Pikachu's dsmash still has tons of priority and comes out fast.
Theyre the best ones not listed, and Pikas is bad because its very easy to just DI out in the begining of the move, taking 10% max, and possibly counterattack

Diddy's dash attack is one of the best in the game....period. ZSS' dash attack combos into her tilts, which sets up for juggling.
Hmm, it probably is, i just dont see it. And the "consider X" after ten wasnt meant to be "replace 10 with X" I probably should have been clearer there too

Links ftilt is really slow, good KO power but not much else.
But definitely better than Lucas'

Foxs' utilt comes out on frame 3 and clashes with such moves as Snakes ftilt and utilt.....please stop sounding ignorant. Peachs' utlit combos out of her grabs and beats most of the moves in the game. Kirby's utilt juggle "like there's no tomorrow" as well.

Ok, didnt know the frame data for the tilts. And theres better things to do out of Peach's throws, and u-tilt wont connect at high %s. So it goes through moves, wow a disjointed hitbox /sarcasm/

G&W's dtilt "not too great"? You just lost all credibility right there.
I guess i kinda contradicted myself saying moves down only one spot and saying not too good. >.> writing skills ftl

I could see Fox's fair being better than Diddy's.....but not Zelda's.

Mario's uair is the basis for his combo game.
Doesnt mean it's spectacular compared to the other u-airs

You realy overvalue Zelda's lightning kicks. The KO potential is nice, but it's really hard to connect unless it's OoS. Falco's is much better.
Falco's bair? Yeah, its kinda hard to hit, but Zelda mains eventually get skilled at it and start connecting

Snake's dair has crappy priority, most characters' uairs beat it from below.
I was thinking more his dair SHAuto-Canceled

If you want to comment on how you can DI out of Zelda's fsmash......Snakes nair can be DI'ed out of as well and it's easier to do so.

Zelda's uthrow sucks.
Theres no more "good" u-throws >.>

So I'll make myself clearer next time

G&Ws dtilt can be used on walls to rack up major damage, and its a semi-infinite if used right. =/
Where are there walls anywhere? I guess you could CP Pictochat...

If both ICs are present, I believe a usmash does 20%+ un-charged.
If both are present most of their moves do 15%+, but the u-smash has only average KO power, there are better

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic's Uair should be in the top ten.
it is fast, is disjointed, can combo into itself at certain percents, has good usage when Sh and can stage spike.

it can break G&W's Dair.
its much better than several of the top tens you have there.

 

[viparagon]

Sonic's Uair should be in the top ten.
it is fast, is disjointed, can combo into itself at certain percents, has good usage when Sh and can stage spike.

it can break G&W's Dair.
its much better than several of the top tens you have there.

yeah, its definiately his best aerial, but I'm not sure if its better than mario's or pits

 

[ShadowLink84]

yeah, its definiately his best aerial, but I'm not sure if its better than mario's or pits

It bats out mario's in terms of range and priority and can be set up.

in comparison to Pit's, it has bettter range but doesn't have the same priority.

 

[cutter]

its too hard to get ten

Just combine all the throws together since there aren't a lot of super-useful throws to begin with...

I also find it quite funny how you are so adamant about Pit's Fsmash being #1.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Samus' Dair should at least be placed 9. It's a powerful meteor and a good samus can mind-game into easily.

 

[viparagon]

Just combine all the throws together since there aren't a lot of super-useful throws to begin with...

I also find it quite funny how you are so adamant about Pit's Fsmash being #1.

am I that adamant? I can easily see lucario beating it, but i still think that it is the best especially with angelic step, I think the throws are fine right now

 

[cutter]

am I that adamant?

Hmm...

(NO COMMENTZ PLZ! if u really want to know why, take the effort to look through a few pages, THX)

...yeah.

 

[Judge Judy]

It bats out mario's in terms of range and priority and can be set up.

Mario's is still far better at juggling and in some cases it's a true combo.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Mario's is still far better at juggling and in some cases it's a true combo.

only at lower percents.
For Sonic you can string 3 Uairs one after the other at higher percents. Which is rather unusual considering how brawl behaves.

I find it to be much more versatile in its usage IMO.
I mean Mario's is faster but the range covered by Sonic's makes up for this by a great amount as well as its uses.

its just better in the long run IMO.

Either way it should be in the top ten.

 

[Judge Judy]

only at lower percents.
For Sonic you can string 3 Uairs one after the other at higher percents. Which is rather unusual considering how brawl behaves.

I find it to be much more versatile in its usage IMO.
I mean Mario's is faster but the range covered by Sonic's makes up for this by a great amount as well as its uses.

its just better in the long run IMO.

Either way it should be in the top ten.

Still, the way Sonic's Uair hitbox is placed it would still take some effort to setup, plus Mario's Uair still works well for juggling until around 60-80%. I think Sonic's Uair has the potential be in the top 10, but not at the expense of Mario's Uair.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Sonics Uair does have good killing potential, and the whole Uair -> Spring -> Uair is too good. XD

 

[Kisamealex3]

Zelda's SideB is awsome...I dont know why its not on the SideB list. Kirby's SideB in the air is great too.

 

[viparagon]

Hmm...



...yeah.

LOL

srry, I just put that there so random peeps just bring up the same stuff again and again and again and agian

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonics Uair does have good killing potential, and the whole Uair -> Spring -> Uair is too good. XD

uair~uair~spring~uair works around 70 or something percent

 

[Judge Judy]

Zelda's SideB is awsome...I dont know why its not on the SideB list. Kirby's SideB in the air is great too.

Din's Fire is overrated and Kirby's hammer has tremendous startup and ending lag.

 

[viparagon]

Added worst move... this should spark some debate!