Palpi
Smash Hero
For the walking blizzard you can eat it then dair them if you DI into it.
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Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO
- Thread starter OverLade
- Start date
- Status
I have no intention of switching my main....
And what does working for kills anymore have to do with anything. I could **** you to the ****in 9th circle of hell with any character on the roster. I play all the high tier characters extremely well, but I play as MK because he my favorite character so gtfo.
I just dont feel as special anymore because m2k lost.
Why PS2? PS1 I could understand but why this?
*alright I got owned****** who are you to say you play the high tier characters "extremely well"
i swear people and their brawl egos
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
the ice climber matches will take 6minutes +, why would anyone want to bore you thatttt much.
anyway d tilit and ftilit work well here but stop it if they dont connect. and immedeaitly proceed to dair camp. dair > tornado works well here and becareful of a good ice climbers who will help nana recover.
when the ice clibmers up B and tether the ledge, you CAN hit popo as he is coming up. REMMEBER THAT, lol i found out during friendlies and its such a good peice of info.
anyway once lain, i mean ice climbers start to master dysynch blizzard, up airs, the matchup will be even. now its just 55-45 barely in our favor
anyway d tilit and ftilit work well here but stop it if they dont connect. and immedeaitly proceed to dair camp. dair > tornado works well here and becareful of a good ice climbers who will help nana recover.
when the ice clibmers up B and tether the ledge, you CAN hit popo as he is coming up. REMMEBER THAT, lol i found out during friendlies and its such a good peice of info.
anyway once lain, i mean ice climbers start to master dysynch blizzard, up airs, the matchup will be even. now its just 55-45 barely in our favor
JayBee
Smash Champion
god i hate Ice Climbers.
this is good info. everyones dead on about the matchup. if you pick the right stage and camp, you basically win as long as you're airborne. M2K at apex showed that easily. i dont think the threat of an upair is enough to make an MK stop darir camping seriously considering that the secong they get split, Nana is getting **** on. i avoid any conftontation with desynch blizzard. just camp. this might be one of the few matchups that might scare a meta, but his five jumps + tornado negate this well. sigh...
this is good info. everyones dead on about the matchup. if you pick the right stage and camp, you basically win as long as you're airborne. M2K at apex showed that easily. i dont think the threat of an upair is enough to make an MK stop darir camping seriously considering that the secong they get split, Nana is getting **** on. i avoid any conftontation with desynch blizzard. just camp. this might be one of the few matchups that might scare a meta, but his five jumps + tornado negate this well. sigh...
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
I wouldn't be so certain about this. Up air has a bit more priority than dair and if they do it OoS after a dair, it'll break through.
FunkMaster
Smash Journeyman
what do you mean Ice Climber uair has "more priority" then Metaknight Dair?
Might you really mean more range?
I wouldn't know which has more range as I haven't tried it out. But even if Ice Climber's Uair did outrange Dair that shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't Dair directly above them.
I never Dair people from right above. Always from the side. It's not like Metaknight's Dair has a smallish hitbox like Mox's Dair. It has a rather large hitbox so you shouldn't have to put yourself in a position for an Uair counterattack after attempting a Dair.
Might you really mean more range?
I wouldn't know which has more range as I haven't tried it out. But even if Ice Climber's Uair did outrange Dair that shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't Dair directly above them.
I never Dair people from right above. Always from the side. It's not like Metaknight's Dair has a smallish hitbox like Mox's Dair. It has a rather large hitbox so you shouldn't have to put yourself in a position for an Uair counterattack after attempting a Dair.
Shadow 111
Smash Lord
well, i've decided on maining mk again and secondarying wario. :D
funkmaster, ICS up air does out prioritze mks dair.. if i'm not mistaken.
this matchup is definitely in mks favor... i'd say 55-45 at the least, maybe even 60-40... just because mk is soooo hard to grab... it's not like ICs can only chaingrab mk... if it was as easy as saying that they win this matchup because of the cg... then you can say that ICs are the best characters in the game because they can do it to everyone... but no, that's wrong.
you can easily avoid their grab. just don't land... ban FD ... just spam dairs above them ... then torando.. then land on a platform and repeat... **** the up airs... that won't do much damage... that ice wall is what really gets in the way but there are ways around it.
funkmaster, ICS up air does out prioritze mks dair.. if i'm not mistaken.
this matchup is definitely in mks favor... i'd say 55-45 at the least, maybe even 60-40... just because mk is soooo hard to grab... it's not like ICs can only chaingrab mk... if it was as easy as saying that they win this matchup because of the cg... then you can say that ICs are the best characters in the game because they can do it to everyone... but no, that's wrong.
you can easily avoid their grab. just don't land... ban FD ... just spam dairs above them ... then torando.. then land on a platform and repeat... **** the up airs... that won't do much damage... that ice wall is what really gets in the way but there are ways around it.
lain
Smash Master
It's even suckas. MK ain't got **** on IC's.
Nor the reverse.
Nor the reverse.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ ****, I miss the Kirby match up... I guess there wasn't much to talk about since the match up is the same. So much as trowing my few cents into the Kirby match up, lol. ☆
☆ That's only your Ice Climbers and your Ice Climbers is barely human unless someone counter picks Pokemon Stadium or Battlefield against Ice Climbers, (I'm not sure if Pokemon Stadium is a good Counter Pick for Meta Knight), but you'll ban stages like that wouldn't you? =P ☆
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
He would probably ban Brinstar ...
lain
Smash Master
I'd ban Brinstar. I LOVE BF.
Yeah, MK vs. IC's is 50/50. I do extremely well against Meep's IC's. Since I play him a lot, I know the match-up really well and I know his style so it's like a double whammy.
Quick Rules:
1. Never dash attack.
2. Never land on the ground after an aerial.
3. Only tornado when Nana is desyched or when you can safely escape onto a platform furthest from IC's.
4. Once you split them, don't just go after Nana. Sometimes it will be more beneficial to adjust targets to effectively keep them separated or gain a quick kill on Popo. Be smart.
5. Don't spam d-smash. F-smash is much more safer and has a better chance of shieldstabbing Nana.
6. Be VERY careful with f-tilt. Use the first part of the tilt as a poke and only finish the 3 hits if you're guaranteed the combo. I see a lot of MK's get grabbed because they'll do the full 3-hit f-tilt on a shield.
7. Be really careful when you're at 0%. Even if you split the IC's, if Popo manages to grab you, he can CG until Nana successfully regroups to finish the job.
Quick Rules:
1. Never dash attack.
2. Never land on the ground after an aerial.
3. Only tornado when Nana is desyched or when you can safely escape onto a platform furthest from IC's.
4. Once you split them, don't just go after Nana. Sometimes it will be more beneficial to adjust targets to effectively keep them separated or gain a quick kill on Popo. Be smart.
5. Don't spam d-smash. F-smash is much more safer and has a better chance of shieldstabbing Nana.
6. Be VERY careful with f-tilt. Use the first part of the tilt as a poke and only finish the 3 hits if you're guaranteed the combo. I see a lot of MK's get grabbed because they'll do the full 3-hit f-tilt on a shield.
7. Be really careful when you're at 0%. Even if you split the IC's, if Popo manages to grab you, he can CG until Nana successfully regroups to finish the job.
I think the MU isnt even. Its like 60:40 for MK.
ICs are good vs. MK, because they got a chaingrab and a good Uair to punish MKs Dair Approach.
If you want to get a win vs. ICs you have to camp against them. Try to run out the timer and never get in a situation where they can grab you.
Ban FD, because there are not platforms where you can jump after using all your jumps or Tornado. MK should be save of chaingrabs on the platforms, but I think some good ICs could grab you on platforms if they follow you up, so pay attention.
The best way to approach ICs is Dair Spam. Good spaced Fairs cant be chaingrabbed, too.
If you get Nana away from Popo go like crazy. Use all your moves to hold Nana away from Popo. Try to kill Nana if its possible. Sometimes the IC player will go after Nana to get her back on stage. Use this to get a free hit at the IC player and in such a situation you can sometimes gimp both ICs.
ICs Down B shouldnt be a big problem. Learn to DI it. If they hit you with Down B and you DI it you can hit them after the Down B.
One good way to kill Nana is Uairs to Tornado. Nana wont do anything against it.
You shouldnt use Tilts in this MU. Better use things like Full Jump Fair if the ICs are directly in front of you.
One trick I sometimes use is running grab into UThrow, but it can be punished. =/
The MU isnt that bad for the ICs, but MK got still the advantage. MK just has to play unpunishable and camp the hell out of the ICs. Counterpicks are another thing, which gives MK the advantage in this MU.
ICs are good vs. MK, because they got a chaingrab and a good Uair to punish MKs Dair Approach.
If you want to get a win vs. ICs you have to camp against them. Try to run out the timer and never get in a situation where they can grab you.
Ban FD, because there are not platforms where you can jump after using all your jumps or Tornado. MK should be save of chaingrabs on the platforms, but I think some good ICs could grab you on platforms if they follow you up, so pay attention.
The best way to approach ICs is Dair Spam. Good spaced Fairs cant be chaingrabbed, too.
If you get Nana away from Popo go like crazy. Use all your moves to hold Nana away from Popo. Try to kill Nana if its possible. Sometimes the IC player will go after Nana to get her back on stage. Use this to get a free hit at the IC player and in such a situation you can sometimes gimp both ICs.
ICs Down B shouldnt be a big problem. Learn to DI it. If they hit you with Down B and you DI it you can hit them after the Down B.
One good way to kill Nana is Uairs to Tornado. Nana wont do anything against it.
You shouldnt use Tilts in this MU. Better use things like Full Jump Fair if the ICs are directly in front of you.
One trick I sometimes use is running grab into UThrow, but it can be punished. =/
The MU isnt that bad for the ICs, but MK got still the advantage. MK just has to play unpunishable and camp the hell out of the ICs. Counterpicks are another thing, which gives MK the advantage in this MU.
X-FACTOR
Smash Journeyman
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ You really do have balls of steel to pick this stage VS Meta Knight... considering that's an awful stage for Ice Climbers to handle Meta Knight, lol. ☆
☆ Also I can't see Ice Climbers being even with Meta Knight, we need more proof to say it's even than a few words. ☆
Also pertaining to IC's especially, but also heavily against D3 and Snake, I recommend, LEARN TO MASH OUT OF GRABS.
This is something basic that most people don't consider. At 0 percent if they wait a split second or try pummeling you you can easily mash out of their grab to ensure that "gayness" doesn't ensue. A great strategy for avoiding tech chasing if your opponent thinks they can pummel you for a few extra percent. It works pretty well up until about 30 percent if your opponent doesnt throw immediately.
Keep in mind that against some characters, such as MK dittos, MK can chaingrab you this way. Fox can get a free Usmash, and Snake can get a Dash Attack. Other characters that you don't normally jump release from can still get interesting setups, but in general this is a good idea at low percent.
This is something basic that most people don't consider. At 0 percent if they wait a split second or try pummeling you you can easily mash out of their grab to ensure that "gayness" doesn't ensue. A great strategy for avoiding tech chasing if your opponent thinks they can pummel you for a few extra percent. It works pretty well up until about 30 percent if your opponent doesnt throw immediately.
Keep in mind that against some characters, such as MK dittos, MK can chaingrab you this way. Fox can get a free Usmash, and Snake can get a Dash Attack. Other characters that you don't normally jump release from can still get interesting setups, but in general this is a good idea at low percent.
kirbycpok
Smash Journeyman
Personally, I spin both c-stick, analog stick, Z-button, Triggers, and possibly face buttons depending
kirbycpok
Smash Journeyman
My person experience from IC's (screw you omniswell :D). There are many standards that I have learned of to do against this GAY matchup
1) Dont worry about move dimishment
-If IC's are ->Bing shuttle loop normally goes thru
-If IC's miss a grab, prop em up with ftilt, and run
2) Split Nanna/Popo
-Against nana she will generally just attempt to run back to popo (controller)
- If nana runs past u either A) Dsmash B) Be ready to charge f-smash to keep sperated C)Dtilt away
-Try to DMG up nana as much as possible
3) If u manage to kill nana
-Dont try to kill pop unless nessacary
- Keep them away and leave no openings, main attacks being ftilt, dtilt, and throws
4) Don't grab
-If u do, fthrow, always fthrow, it can seperate them easily and any other throw will let u get smashed by the nongrabbed climber
- After the fthrow, u can Dsmash immediatly to seperate them more
-U can possibly Backthrow, but if u do u have to dsmash to seperate and try to neutral air **** the nana
5) Ban FD
-Maps with platforms are best maps
IE: PS1/2, SV, BF, Lylate is decent, norfair if needed to resort to it (can **** nana)
1) Dont worry about move dimishment
-If IC's are ->Bing shuttle loop normally goes thru
-If IC's miss a grab, prop em up with ftilt, and run
2) Split Nanna/Popo
-Against nana she will generally just attempt to run back to popo (controller)
- If nana runs past u either A) Dsmash B) Be ready to charge f-smash to keep sperated C)Dtilt away
-Try to DMG up nana as much as possible
3) If u manage to kill nana
-Dont try to kill pop unless nessacary
- Keep them away and leave no openings, main attacks being ftilt, dtilt, and throws
4) Don't grab
-If u do, fthrow, always fthrow, it can seperate them easily and any other throw will let u get smashed by the nongrabbed climber
- After the fthrow, u can Dsmash immediatly to seperate them more
-U can possibly Backthrow, but if u do u have to dsmash to seperate and try to neutral air **** the nana
5) Ban FD
-Maps with platforms are best maps
IE: PS1/2, SV, BF, Lylate is decent, norfair if needed to resort to it (can **** nana)
kirbycpok
Smash Journeyman
accidental double post
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
you triple posted -___-
anyway we should discuss wario =D
anyway we should discuss wario =D
Didn't you guys just discuss him before you started the rediscussions.
professor mgw
Smash Champion
why is there nothing on ic?
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
/facepalm
Current discussion is IC's.
Look at the previous pages.
PS: I'm still going to write something about IC's, but I'm kinda busy at the moment ~.~
Affinity
Smash Hero
Good idea. Wario discussion will start this Sunday.
I really want to keep this as an even, weekly thing.
GeN0
Smash Rookie
I have to say MK's macthup VS. IC's should be self explaintory. Properly spacing and not falling for simple mindgames, should produce the MK with a general advantage. Though i might have to say that if the IC's get a grab off and now what they're doing MK definitatly lost a stock right there, im assuming that will affect the macth-up ratio quite a bit.
Affinity
Smash Hero
New Wario pic in the OP
I'm glad you finally decided the direction you want your thread to go in after it's been out for like a year.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230121
I think all the info we'll need for the wario matchup can be found in this thread. =D
I think all the info we'll need for the wario matchup can be found in this thread. =D
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
there will be a lotttt of wario info after genesis lol
everyone was all scared mk and wario are even. >_> no not really just dont play dumb/get farted on
he stil is top 4 hardest.
everyone was all scared mk and wario are even. >_> no not really just dont play dumb/get farted on
he stil is top 4 hardest.
I think he can be beaten if you stay calm and and rarely approach him. He relies on his omgwtfhax aerial movements to dodge everything MK throws at him. You let him approach you and punish
Popertop
Smash Champion
- Status