Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO

[ShaolinAce]

woah nice update to the topic. Man I have a long read ahead of me.

 

[Toneh]

You're not being contested for a few reasons:

1. The fact that MK is considered the best character in the eyes of the public (and the fact that he's quite easy to pick up, even though being awesome at him is a different story) makes him a commonly-picked character. So, most of the MKs here are scrubs who don't know what to post about any matchup in the first place. Don't get me wrong; there are some really good MK players on the boards (Dojo and M2K to name a few), but there are lots of scrubby MKs, too. Anyways, on to reason 2:

2. Most MK's have never played against a good Yoshi before, so they don't have a general idea of what this matchup is like, which means that they have a valid reason not to post. Yoshi isn't commonly played, either, because he's kind of an awkward character. The good people on the boards probably aren't posting because of a lack of experience in the MK-Yoshi matchup.

yea basically Lol.

more characters!

 

[Timbers]

Wait did your entire summarization of Lucario come from one post?

hmmmmm I guess I'll do my write up about Lucario now.

Lucario can be a very tricky match up for MK, unless you know what you're doing.

First off, About MT'ing lucario. MT'ing Lucario is pretty simple for the most part seeing as the only 3 plausible moves Lucario has that break MT are F+Smash, D+Air, and Fully Charged Aura Sphere "higher %"

Keeping Lucario in the air seems like the best way to deal with him for me.

People are kind of scared to do this because of Lucario's F+Air > F+Air > N+Air Combo. Don't worry about this... If you look at the %, this only does like 10-15%... And even than, If you DI away and F+Air, You will hit Lucario out of this.

Its pretty easy to deal with Lucario in the air, Unless he is above you. Do not attack him if he is above you. Nothing MK has can out prioritize Lucario D+Air.

Don't shield to much against Lucario. Its not smart. Lucario can D+Air > Jab > Jab > Grab/Jab. He also has a couple other options to attack your shield, so you should do this cautiously.

Dealing with Lucario over the edge is EASY!

-If Lucario tries to sweet spot, Edge hog.

-If He tries to wall cling, Ledge drop, and D+Air him for a stage spike.

-If he tries to go on to the stage, Jump up and attack him on the lag frames.

When on the ground be sure to remember,

- Lucario's F+smash can out prioritize any of your ground attacks.

- Lucario has a good dash grab, and can do some good stuff out of a grab. So watch out for that.

- MK's dash grab is very risky to use, but the pay off on Lucario is pretty good. The D+Throw to F+air combo works really good on Lucario, and can send him over the edge for an easy kill.

- Landing tilts on Lucario really pays off. If you finish an F+tilt combo, It sets him up for a fallow up in the air, and if you trip him with D+tilt, you can dash grab and punish from that.

Seriously? I can't begin to stress how inaccurate this is, even if it's dated several months back.

Numbers would fall more around 55:45/60:40 MK, but the reasoning for the 65:35 is just what made me question it lol.

 

[Affinity]

If you could contribute to the Lucario section by correcting what's inaccurate, that'd be great.

 

[viparagon]

How bout wario's new chaingrab? do you think it will make the match 50-50?

 

[l3lue2ain]

I think this thread should be stickied. I was making a similar thread one gimping each charactor but I did not have all the information due to the lack of data.

 

[Jack of Blades!]

Donkey Kong, really? Cool.

 

[choknater]

trufax: the "yoshi vs mk is even" ideology is probably prevalent due to Mmac's all-around-smashboards influence alone

 

[l3lue2ain]

You should stick Metaknight vs Peach in your match ups :\

 

[Rh1thmz]

Meant to PM this message...sorry about that. Ignore this post >.<

 

[Affinity]

You should stick Metaknight vs Peach in your match ups :\

Its up. Waiting for input, along with the PT and Kirby sections.

 

[Blad01]

Hello MK mainers ! Recently, the Falco boards have been re-analysining its match-ups. So feel free to comment the MK match-up (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5537325#post5537325).

Thanks

 

[M@v]

Peach has a good air game. You should be able to own her ground game. IF your going aggressive in the air, be sure to watch out for her fair...very good kill move. Peach has a great recovery, but its slow, so you can fly out and intercept her with ease.

 

[cutter]

Nobody can challenge MK on the ground; his grounded sword attacks have transcendental priority and never clank with other hitboxes. His Ftilt and Dtilt hit on frame 3 and have crazy range. A 5 frame Dsmash. A 5 frame Up B with an invinc frame on the move it hits on. -_-

 

[Affinity]

New pictures in the OP. Check them out

 

[brinboy789]

i was gonna make new thread about how can i beat pikachu but this has it ^^ great thread afffinity. still, i hate pikas dsmash...

 

[Toneh]

crazy lookin pics :]

 

[ADHD]

Can you consider putting diddy vs mk as 55-45 in mks favor. If you know how to handle the bananas and have an exceptional metaknight its definitely in metas favor, still not by much though.

 

[Dojo]

Agreed. Diddy manages to give some trouble to MK, but if a smart MK can take control over the bananas it's in MK's favor.

 

[Affinity]

I don't see how the match-up can be 55-45.

 

[Dojo]

Ah, I misinterpreted something.
Ignore that last post. XD

I can see 60-40.
Except for perhaps on FD.

 

[ADHD]

Ah, I misinterpreted something.
Ignore that last post. XD

I can see 60-40.
Except for perhaps on FD.

I don't see why it should be 60-40, diddy ***** mk onstage if he has control of the bananas and mk can't handle them nearly as well even if he has control of them. Offstage is all I see truly in metas favor. All neutral stages is where diddy does very well against metas excluding lylat

 

[Dojo]

MK can take over bananas fine. You can JC throw them AND glide toss them very well with MK if you practice with it a bit.

 

[ADHD]

MK can take over bananas fine. You can JC throw them AND glide toss them very well with MK if you practice with it a bit.

His dash attack isn't as good for picking them up and his glide toss doesn't do much besides give you a massive amount of spacing which isn't that useful except when you need a quick approaching/defensive option.

 

[Dojo]

SH dair's replace dash attacks.
And you can exchange glide tosses for JC throws which give you a more reasonable slide for MK.

 

[ADHD]

SH dair's replace dash attacks.
And you can exchange glide tosses for JC throws which give you a more reasonable slide for MK.

Idk about the JC throws I've never been mk and tried them out how far does he slide?

 

[Dojo]

About half the amount as his glide toss.
It's a good substitute. Easier to pull off as well.

 

[ADHD]

i'd have to look into that before I can say anything more about glide tossing stuff, im just curious though have you fought any good diddys in a tourney recently?

 

[Affinity]

Where did all my writers go???

 

[Rh1thmz]

Lol we have nothing at the moment. You should work one some of this too, being the creator of the thread. =p

Although I do think that the Olimar matchup rating is off...it's definitely not 70:30 in MK's favor due to how hard approaching and gaining momentum can be for MK at times...

 

[UnSaxon51]

I'll get up some info on PT either later tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Affinity]

Although I do think that the Olimar matchup rating is off...it's definitely not 70:30 in MK's favor due to how hard approaching and gaining momentum can be for MK at times...

I changed it to 60:40. Seem good to you?

I'll get up some info on PT either later tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Over on the Marth boards, we decided the match-up ratio should be 65:35 instead of 60:40 in Meta Knight's favor. It's not a big change, but it now makes him the only solid disadvantage for Marth.

 

[UnSaxon51]

It's time for Pokemon Trainer!

~~~~~~~~~~

You can do it, Squirtle!
Squirtle is annoying but manageable.

- As the smallest target, Squirtle flies farther than his teammates, but is harder to hit and harder to combo.

- Squirtle has pretty good approach options as he can move fairly well both in the air and on the ground (especially if the opponent knows how to Shell-Shift well).

- Squirtle's ground attacks are quick and some of them have a lot of range (U-smash in particular)

- If Squirtle is in his shell, he CANNOT be damaged. This applies to Forward-B, F-smash, D-smash, and his turnaround animation.

- Squirtle easily has the best aerial attacks of the trio, which can cause problems for Meta Knight if you are unprepared. Fair, Bair, and Uair all hit hard and have a lot of priority. However, MK has better range in all directions, so this can easily be overcome.

~~~~~~~~~~

Way to go, Ivysaur!
Ivysaur is the weakest link in the chain (at least against Meta Knight), but still has some threatening attacks.

- Tilts are fast and deal a fair amount of damage.

- His smashes are powerful and have a lot of range. F-smash is especially long-ranged and a fresh U-smash can kill as early as 40% depending on the level.

- Ivysaur's aerial attacks aren't the worst, but Meta Knight is better in every way by a lot. Just be wary of Uair and Dair, as the pollen bursts are quite strong.

- His biggest weakness is his recovery, which plays right into MK's amazing gimp game. If you can get Ivysaur offstage and avoid Razor Leafs as an attempt to clear the ledge, he should die in very short order.

~~~~~~~~~~

Up the butt, Charizard!
Charizard is probably the most difficult overall.

- As the biggest and heaviest target, Charizard gets comobed very easily, so you'll be racking up damage pretty quickly.

-However, his weight combined with the best recovery out of the three pokemon also means he lives forever. You will almost always have to gimp Charizard to get the KO. Just be careful near the edge; Fly (Up-B) is not only fast, but has pretty high vertical knockback.

- Most of Charizard's ground attacks come out fairly slow, except for his U-tilt and U-smash. Fsmash starts up slow, but moves fast and travels pretty far, so watch out for that.

- Charizard's aerials are dangerous. Bair and Dair have more range than MK's attacks as well as killing power, but both have startup lag, so be careful. Fair also has more range but has fairly low knockback and hits at a downward angle. Uair is fast and strong, but is really short-ranged.

- Rock Smash (Forward-B) is extremely powerful if you get hit with all of it. Be aware that you can sometimes still be hit with the rock if you interrupt the attack.

~~~~~~~~~~

General...
It's Super Effective!

- All three Pokemon have pretty good grab range (aka longer than MK's) and at least one good KO throw. (Squirtle: Down; Ivysaur: Up and Back; Charizard: Up, Down, and Forward)

- Recovery is the biggest failing for all three characters. It's almost never a bad idea to chase after any of them.

- Do not let up! If you keep the pressure on PT, eventually fatigue will kick in on the current monster. This way, even if you are having trouble getting the killing blow, their attacks will be significantly weakened over time.

 

[The Real Inferno]

There are two ways to beat Pokemon Trainer. Either GAY THE HOLY **** OUT OF HIM. Or gimp his awful excuses for recoveries. Ivysaur's recovery goes without saying. Just try not to get yourself stage spiked like a dork by his tether when you hog it. You'll hate yourself if that was your last life. Squirtle. Two words: Down. Air. It ***** his recovery hard and you can keep dairing each time he tries until he's just out of range of edge. I'm not even a Meta main and I can pull this off with ease. Charizard is a bit trickier. If he's gliding, I recommend either catching him with tornado for free damage once he's near the stage, or using your own glide attack. It's a bit risky to put your body in his way as if he glide attacks out of it, it will KO at low percentages. It's best to take charizard out at as low of an angle as possible. Bthrow to Dair chain can sap some of his jumps leading to an edge hog gimp. don't try to attack his Up B, it has surper armor frames and kills.

The Gayer strategy is to use your speed and range to constantly poke at the pokemon while not being overly agreesive, constantly forcing them to approach you if you can. The point to doing this is to purposefully wear down PT's crappy fatigue system. If a pokemon is fatigued it will have -alot- of trouble killing you so this is in your favor, especially with Squirtle and Charizard.

 

[Affinity]

PT Section Updated

 

[Steeler]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4772429&postcount=1

a whole lot of crap on squirtle v mk. ignore the rest of the thread, it's horrifically outdated. i've put off updating with ivysaur and charizard info, but ivy is at a major disadvantage and zard slight.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

I think we should add Bowser to this match-up list. Bowser boards currently have the ratio as 55:45 in Meta Knight's favor, and it appears he is a growing threat due to the chain grab/grab releases. It would be helpful if we could give some advice on the match-up besides not getting grabbed and see if we can agree on the current match-up ratio.

 

[-Final-]

Some of the pictures on the front scare me. >_> lol

Bowser isn't that hard of a matchup. Just avoid his grabs. That isn't that hard to do.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Some of the pictures on the front scare me. >_> lol

Bowser isn't that hard of a matchup. Just avoid his grabs. That isn't that hard to do.

I suppose, but the Bowser boards still have Meta Knight at a disadvantage on flat stages like Final Destination just because of the 0-death combo.