Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Meta Knight

[Player-4]

Brawl- @ Apex 2010

I really hope you don't think that counts

 

[ksizl4life]

people seriously need to start lagging their glides. only nairo does it. m2k does it once in a blue.

most players intend to shield glide attack and then grab. nairo glides over you and cancels into grab tilts or d smash. or sometimes he takes longer to initiate the glide attack until hes almost behind you but still in you. he knows the hitbox. its so gay lol.

 

[Kaffei]

people seriously need to start lagging their glides. only nairo does it. m2k does it once in a blue.

most players intend to shield glide attack and then grab. nairo glides over you and cancels into grab tilts or d smash. or sometimes he takes longer to initiate the glide attack until hes almost behind you but still in you. he knows the hitbox. its so gay lol.

^This 999999999999999999999999999999999999999x

 

[Jem.]

the only problem is, vs metaknight, thats punishable. i see a lot of people do buffered rolls and go behind metaknight, just because, hey, its mk's buffered roll, its the best! rolling behind someone is punishable, period. you have to be smart about it.

everything must be done in moderation, and depends on the player. you shouldnt do something and hope it works. relying on luck is bad.

 

[ksizl4life]

the only problem is, vs metaknight, thats punishable. i see a lot of people do buffered rolls and go behind metaknight, just because, hey, its mk's buffered roll, its the best! rolling behind someone is punishable, period. you have to be smart about it.

everything must be done in moderation, and depends on the player. you shouldnt do something and hope it works. relying on luck is bad.

what are you talking about lol

 

[Teh Future]

^LOL

10chars

 

[Jem.]

what are you talking about lol

everything. the prolonged glide, buffered rolls into grabs/tilts, etc.

relying on luck is a horrible thing period. "man i hope this hits!"

never use that logic anyone!

 

[ksizl4life]

It's called reads and mix ups Jem. This game has a great deal on risk and reward and little luck. It's a risk with a great reward if you've read your opponent well by the time you do it.

Player A glide attacks all match into opponent. Get punished every time with grab. Player B realizes he will keep shielding and waiting for the glide attack to connect so he can punish with a grab. Player A gets punished enough to decide and test out glide lagging or glide canceling instead of attacking, and oh look he's at kill percent last stock, perfect opportunity to end the match. Player A glides into opponent and before he reaches him, cancels and dash grabs or glides behind opponent and tilts, smash attacks or grabs, d smash being the potential match finisher.

Inui told everyone "to beat Nairo you just shield. he doesn't stop attacking. he doesn't grab" Nairo expected this mentality and did what I just explained as Inui was ready for every glide to end in a glide attack and soundly beat him after promising he would show everyone how easy it is.

Soo never use that logic? I honestly think you're trying to push back the metagame by telling everyone to stay predictable. Mix ups are a necessity at high level play. This entire thing I said isn't a luck strategy. It's a mix up. Get it memorized because your words are of a mid level player.

 

[-LzR-]

I just gotta do that glide stuff. I kinda did similar stuff yesterday. I get punished so much because I always forget glide attack isn't safe on shields =/

 

[Jem.]

No, I'm not telling people to stay predictable. I mix up, everyone does. But to do something and it will only hit by luck is not something you want to rely on. I can tell you now M2K doesn't mix up very often. He doesn't even study matchups (minus snake and diddy) he just reacts based on what he sees. Now if your read something, good. But doing a full on glide a tiny bit past someone and the glide attack hitting the back of them, thats hoping. Everytime you buffer roll behind someone, you're hoping. it's never a read when you roll.

I guess we just have different ideas. "Don't guess. react."

 

[clowsui]

Just a random interjection on this argument that I'm not even associated with directly, sorry if I'm intruding >__>;

Jem I think that reactions are better than guesses because once you react the person can't change what they're committing to as opposed to when you guess. It's concrete damage and it's a concrete action that you can set in your memory as a habit (if it keeps happening, if not then you know they know how to use the option which is just as good in some cases).

However...

The problem with that mentality is that it loses to styles that are intended to defeat reactions. Reactions are based on an expectation, and top tier characters have multiple ways to work around the expectation either by punishment, conditioning you to perform a certain [set of] reactions and then doing a different action other than the expected one. Furthermore, some things are highly difficult to react to even if you are prepared to react. This is why Jason's forward roll mixups are really good - you may be prepared in a situation to cover the roll but unless you're on point it's not likely that you're going to be able to punish him; it's also why he buffers a second roll out of the first once or twice per match (if your reaction and expectation meet for the first one, you're not very likely to expect a second one because you're trying to punish the first).

 

[ksizl4life]

No, I'm not telling people to stay predictable. I mix up, everyone does. But to do something and it will only hit by luck is not something you want to rely on. I can tell you now M2K doesn't mix up very often. He doesn't even study matchups (minus snake and diddy) he just reacts based on what he sees. Now if your read something, good. But doing a full on glide a tiny bit past someone and the glide attack hitting the back of them, thats hoping. Everytime you buffer roll behind someone, you're hoping. it's never a read when you roll.

I guess we just have different ideas. "Don't guess. react."

Mew2king is a different example and that's one of his huge downfalls in not mixing it up. Brood and Larry read him like Twilight. I coached Larry during the set with M2K and told him all of M2K's tricks.

"If he tornados keep the shield up, hes extremely greedy".

"when he planks stay this close to the ledge for better reaction."

etc etc

and he listened. and he won. m2k never switched it up. thats the part that makes mew2king able to lose to people.

and there are many players who havent played m2k yet after realizing this that will abuse his repetitive style like atomsk, me, tkd, etc.

but yeah what do i know? not like this mentality has gotten me national accomplishments or something.

 

[Zozefup]

m2k doesn't mix it up?! Are you guys serious? I would normally say "anyone who thinks M2K doesn't have mix ups clearly doesn't understand competitive brawl." But then Ksizzle agreed...

You found a few of his bad habbits. Congrats. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have any mix ups.

edit: In just one match I found 4 notable mix-ups by M2K. I could probably argue that he had a lot more, but these were obvious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-19NssjjZQ

0:34
2:28
2:40
5:20

 

[ksizl4life]

how about you actually ask him yourself? he himself says he doesnt mix up it up and plays on a set prediction he gets from playing his computers.

remember that spree of ally destroying him at one point? he kept crying to me on aim to help him and i said theres a reason why people who shouldnt be able to beat him, get close to beating him or actually doing it. he doesnt mix it up. then he said he doesnt wanna learn to mix it up and if its worked up to this point why should he mix it up for losing to one player? eventually he begn to use tornado smarter thank god and now ally has more trouble.

he also has HORRIBLE reaction time and only reacts to obvious predictions the character would do. to backup this statement, mew2king himself can say so. hes open about it. im surprised most of you dont know, so jem using m2k as an example for reacting was bad. dsf or anti is a perfect example of playing on reaction.

but yeah. proof? IM him or something cuz hell tell you himself

 

[etecoon]

he also has HORRIBLE reaction time and only reacts to obvious predictions the character would do. to backup this statement, mew2king himself can say so. hes open about it. im surprised most of you dont know, so jem using m2k as an example for reacting was bad. dsf or anti is a perfect example of playing on reaction.

his results on reaction were actually still above average, not amazing or anything, but not what you'd call horrible

I don't think anyone is fully capable of playing on reaction in a sense of seeing every attack and blocking it or avoiding it, people react to situations

 

[Jem.]

lol ksizzle.. you were one of the best mk's when you played. (IDK if you're still maining falco now or attending tournaments) i'm not discrediting you. obviously you've done more in brawl than i have. im just a WA player. I guess we just see things differently. I don't like when people randomely take guesses and hope something hits. I guess that just isn't my style. Which is weird, because I'm far from the cookie cutter metaknight. Most say I play more weird than most top MK's they run into.

 

[ksizl4life]

yeah its different. either way, both what you said and what i said need to mesh is what i mean. you cant play solely on reaction and expect to win imo. like i never said reacting was bad, i was just defending the need of mixups to be more successful. need to mix it up because some of your reactions will surprisingly be readable if the opponent is also predictable.

and no i dont main falco. i just experimented with him for a couple of months. i main MK/Lucario but i am not able to go to tourneys yet.

 

[Jem.]

go to tournaments again and main only mk

keep that pocket falco

 

[Kaffei]

From like 0% to like 30%, after you ftilt this can set up for a GSL more dmg I guess, and if you are near the ledge this can set up for edge guarding(Yes this can be air dodge i know). ppl say you can't really edge guard MK which is true but you can rack up a lot of dmg just by hitting them back off stage. M2K got sooo much dmg on tearbear just by doing that.

At low %, if you shield a fair, you can dtilt>grab >follow up. you have to dtilt them before they land

 

[Orion*]

because tearbear is so good at brawl lmao

 

[Kaffei]

ok but M2K is amazing!

 

[Exdeath]

because tearbear is so good at brawl lmao

... He has greater accomplishments than anyone who regularly posts on the MK boards haha.

 

[Orion*]

i dont really care. i honestly wouldnt even be surprised if he beat me in tournament, im sure hes very capable.

i just watch him play, and his entire approach to this game, is so limited and awful. and no, im not just talking about spam fsmash

 

[Kaffei]

Lmao @ "Tearbear stare".

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

From my experience, the tearbear stare is ridiculously good (against wifi opponents; even the good ones run into it a fair amount). Fsmash is hilariously good.

 

[Orion*]

From my experience, the tearbear stare is ridiculously good (against wifi opponents; even the good ones run into it a fair amount). Fsmash is hilariously good.

hes an ex wifi player for a reason >_>

 

[etecoon]

whoever said tearbear was better than everyone else here, I'd just like to point out that bc has never two stocked me twice in a row, and I'm really, really not good lmao

 

[Orion*]

whoever said tearbear was better than everyone else here, I'd just like to point out that bc has never two stocked me twice in a row, and I'm really, really not good lmao

reword that i dont understand xD

bc ->bloodcr*ss namesearchz

 

[etecoon]

inui logic : p he got two stocked twice by someone that I go a lot closer with(though always lose to), and I'm really not good so I'm not getting the hype. not the sole reason but I felt like poking at him. tear is definitely better than I am but overall I'd compare him a bit to one of our players, hink. his whole playstyle is like trolling so people get annoyed and do stupid things and lose when they shouldn't.

not that I should be one to talk, professional of making people kill themselves when I can't win here lol

 

[Kaffei]

I love MK dittos

 

[demonictoonlink]

I witnessed Tearbear trick M2K into thinking he gave up (because he was just Uairing to the pictochat music). M2K joined in and they started mixing in Dtilts as well.

Then Tearbear walked up and dsmashed him.
It was lol. M2K yelled, "YOU TROLL!!!!".

He still got 3-0'd though.

 

[Player-4]

I witnessed Tearbear trick M2K into thinking he gave up (because he was just Uairing to the pictochat music). M2K joined in and they started mixing in Dtilts as well.

Then Tearbear walked up and dsmashed him.
It was lol. M2K yelled, "YOU TROLL!!!!".

He still got 3-0'd though.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I laughed

 

[Orion*]

I witnessed Tearbear trick M2K into thinking he gave up (because he was just Uairing to the pictochat music). M2K joined in and they started mixing in Dtilts as well.

Then Tearbear walked up and dsmashed him.
It was lol. M2K yelled, "YOU TROLL!!!!".

He still got 3-0'd though.

play to win? XD

 

[Omni]

Back on topic ladies.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I witnessed Tearbear trick M2K into thinking he gave up (because he was just Uairing to the pictochat music). M2K joined in and they started mixing in Dtilts as well.

Then Tearbear walked up and dsmashed him.
It was lol. M2K yelled, "YOU TROLL!!!!".

He still got 3-0'd though.

That's ****ing amazing.

Oh... on-topic... errr... How safe is a well-spaced dtilt? Like, can MK SL you OOS? Dtilt after shield drop? Jump OOS and fair?

 

[Orion*]

That's ****ing amazing.

Oh... on-topic... errr... How safe is a well-spaced dtilt? Like, can MK SL you OOS? Dtilt after shield drop? Jump OOS and fair?

if its not a PS im pretty sure they cant do anything if you space properly

best bet is trying to SL their hand since dtilt advances you if the mk has good spacing

 

[Jem.]

tearbear is good, you don't get 7th at mlg by random chance.

 

[Orion*]

i know hes smart as ****,
i just think the way he plays his character is very limiting.

*shrug* thats just my opinion

 

[Kaffei]

it's ok orion i agree.

 

[Orion*]

tearbear is good, you don't get 7th at mlg by random chance.

also, im surprised nobody said inb4 nickriddle