Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Meta Knight

[Exdeath]

also, im surprised nobody said inb4 nickriddle

You forgot to name-search-proof it.

 

[V1CE]

honestly i think DC is reallllllly good when above mk as well... if you DC at a certain height and land with it. it has no lag. So u can shield and SL OoS if you see them approach to try to punish you. You always should try to mix it up and it is really smart to let a few things happen early in the match so you have an easier time reading them latter on with certain things.... ALOT of this MU is punishing bad habits which most mks have...

Also I almost always back up with fair so when it auto cancels i can space dtilt and ftilt or GSL easier. Since fair is unsafe to most good mks... it is a good mood to bate the other mk. You also almost never wanna finish all 3 hits of ftilt cause you can smash DI the 3rd hit and get punished... Also if you trip with dtilt early in the match i like to walk up to the opponent and shield to see what option they choose... good for reading habits...

 

[Grump]

Reading habits is all fine and dandy until they decide to CHANGE those habits. Why not make sure they don't have a chance to execute those habits in the first place? The way I see it- LETTING your opponent get in breaks the momentum, and that momentum could carry you into a loss if you don't control it FAST. And MK vs. MK is one of the hardest MU's to gain that momentum back since both characters are have insane punch-trading material.

I just think you're asking for -1 stock if you let the opponent experiment too much.

 

[-LzR-]

I am the best in this MU in my country obviously since I am pretty much the only MK main around here and have played the ditto a lot. The others are so predictable that the beginning of the match is even, but the longer we play, the more I start to win as I can easily punish silly dsmash and SL spam.
Oh and nado is incredibly in this MU too, even thought they can cancel it with any move. Nado is that good

 

[Staco]

Nado sucks in this MU.
Most people just don´t punish it properly offstage.
Onstage it really sucks.
You can even DI out of it (3-5%) and punish with DAir, lol.

 

[Player-4]

Yeah Nado is pretty bad, but it has it's niche in the MU.

I use it to recover high against MKs wanting to scoop me, or I'll use it as a surprise to pop them in the air so I'm safely on the ground. Just by pressing B once and charging at them, it works a good amount of the time.

 

[D Who?]

I witnessed Tearbear trick M2K into thinking he gave up (because he was just Uairing to the pictochat music). M2K joined in and they started mixing in Dtilts as well.

Then Tearbear walked up and dsmashed him.
It was lol. M2K yelled, "YOU TROLL!!!!".

He still got 3-0'd though.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL I have tears.

Has M2K shown anyone else how he "Takes out the trash?" And why it's funny?
DolphinCheif

 

[Exdeath]

Nado sucks in this MU.
Most people just don´t punish it properly offstage.
Onstage it really sucks.
You can even DI out of it (3-5%) and punish with DAir, lol.

B does not suck in the ditto, although I agree that it isn't properly punished when the situation is available. It doesn't suck on-stage (it's actually quite useful depending on what style you're using, although it shouldn't be used often). If you're DIing out of B>punishing then it isn't being used properly.

 

[KassandraNova]

Yeah Nado is pretty bad, but it has it's niche in the MU.

I use it to recover high against MKs wanting to scoop me, or I'll use it as a surprise to pop them in the air so I'm safely on the ground.

This. Also dunno if anyone has said this yet, but its good to use when you know an mk will be reverse shuttle looping above the edge. It's difficult to punish, I would only do this if they are facing away the stage and they are low on jumps below the edge, they are almost guaranteed to reverse up b.

 

[Grump]

This. Also dunno if anyone has said this yet, but its good to use when you know an mk will be reverse shuttle looping above the edge. It's difficult to punish, I would only do this if they are facing away the stage and they are low on jumps below the edge, they are almost guaranteed to reverse up b.

QFT

Though I'm surprised people haven't started nadoing themselves up in this situation, or DC snapping the ledge or drilling or some shenanigans like that. They've just gotten so predictable lately >.> Would any of these options beat out the nado as you would use it?

 

[Player-4]

Oh yeah, I also use Nado against people in glide, they can't do anything about it and are usually stuck in Nado to where you don't get punished

 

[ぱみゅ]

This. Also dunno if anyone has said this yet, but its good to use when you know an mk will be reverse shuttle looping above the edge. It's difficult to punish, I would only do this if they are facing away the stage and they are low on jumps below the edge, they are almost guaranteed to reverse up b.

You mean that Auto-cancelled thing?
If it's that, use jab instead.
You'll have a setup lol.

 

[Rob_Gambino]

I love this thread. I don't really have anything to add, but I'd like to prioritize/summarize it.

1. Learn how to recover/edgeguard/off stage game. If you don't win these battles, you're not going to win.

2. Stay below mk whenever possible. Getting back down is a pain, sometimes you can only run to the ledge. Even then, it's a major headache.

3. Find ways to land grabs and know your follow ups.

4. Know the spacing for tilts/dash attacks. F-tilt is great range and anti air. D-tilt can trip can be difficult to punish, especially side-step happy players. Dash attack is really fast, I like it when they whiff a tilt but you're in range. (Timing is strict, I usually only attempt if I predict the tilt)

5. Bait and win the rock paper scissors game on stage. You'll get most of your reward from grabs, but take whatever your opponent gives you.

 

[Jem.]

Tornado is really effective offstage vs people who like to glide attack. When i know someone is going to glide attack me, i tornado as they get to me, and then I get back onto the stage while they get popped up a little. Regardless, we trade positions.

 

[-LzR-]

When they glide, it's usually a free nado, glide attack or not.

 

[Orion*]

Nado sucks in this MU.
Most people just don´t punish it properly offstage.
Onstage it really sucks.
You can even DI out of it (3-5%) and punish with DAir, lol.

ive only seen me/nairo do this

but you can punish w/ nair also if you pop out at some angles its so gay

because at low percents its like, oh i got hit? FFnair -> ftilt LOL

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Yeah, I've seen Ally do it some. It's definitely made me more cautious about tornado in the ditto.

 

[Exdeath]

ive only seen me/nairo do this

but you can punish w/ nair also if you pop out at some angles its so gay

because at low percents its like, oh i got hit? FFnair -> ftilt LOL

I actually miss free Dairs a lot because I usually go for Nair haha. It's not guaranteed at all though (neither is Dair). Most Meta Knight players don't use B properly.

 

[AllyKnight]

Nair out of nado, been doing thta ish since so long. I'm glad Orion and Nairo are the only 2 other that does it lately.

 

[-LzR-]

How exactly do you nair out of the nado? Just the correct timing? Since I heard you cannot SDI from nado.

 

[Susi]

Light chars can pop out of nado when they have some damage. Then you have time to nair with MK. I do it a lot with my Ness. Usually you can see ppl airdodge when they could have done their nair.

 

[KassandraNova]

Nair out of nado, been doing thta ish since so long. I'm glad Orion and Nairo are the only 2 other that does it lately.

Yay! I'm going to try this. ^_^
Ally you get candy next time I see you!
:D

 

[-LzR-]

I think properly spaced nado isn't nairable since you can move left so that nair clashes with the hitbox in the side.

 

[Staco]

ive only seen me/nairo do this

but you can punish w/ nair also if you pop out at some angles its so gay

because at low percents its like, oh i got hit? FFnair -> ftilt LOL

Im dairing MKs who nado all the time. :l (if I get hit by Nado)

 

[-LzR-]

Nado must suck.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I think properly spaced nado isn't nairable since you can move left so that nair clashes with the hitbox in the side.

wat

Im dairing MKs who nado all the time. :l (if I get hit by Nado)

This.
Less rewarding, but much more effective and has a much lower chance to miss.

 

[-LzR-]

Oh yeah, sorry, forgot it's MK's nair

 

[Orion*]

wat



This.
Less rewarding, but much more effective and has a much lower chance to miss.

if their at low percents its worth it imo 18% move that combos into tilts/grabs LOL

just learn to do it properly, if you see you obv arent in the spacing to do it just dair

 

[Jem.]

i dont think playing all aggro or all campy is ever how you want to do this ditto. you want to turn on like a light switch, go smart aggro, and then just start walking and playing patient, it gets them to start making hasty decisions and ones you can punish because they're expecting aggro. because a lot of players know how to hard counter aggro or campy knight, but not both.

 

[John12346]

I'm kinda researching this matchup.

Lemme know if there's anything wrong/missing in this paraphrasing:
- Avoid using Fair
- Avoid using Nado unless the opponent is gliding
- Space Ftilt/Dtilt

What else?

 

[Exdeath]

I don't think that there really is one set way to play the ditto. I've seen many different styles used effectively.

 

[John12346]

Well, if, and this is a very small if, but IF I plan on picking up MK solely for the ditto, knowing the basics of that matchup is always a great way to get started.

I can develop my own strategies after I know what I have to do first.

 

[Player-4]

Who do you main?

 

[Exdeath]

Who do you main?

Common sense suggests Lucario. Actually following the NY scene confirms it.

 

[Player-4]

Common sense suggests Lucario. Actually following the NY scene confirms it.

So many people put up a character icon and use someone else, I was just making sure

But anyways, Lucario is actually good against MK imo

 

[John12346]

So many people put up a character icon and use someone else, I was just making sure

But anyways, Lucario is actually good against MK imo

He's decent against MK, but the whole MU on Lucario's end is "run away."

Wanna see what happens if I can actually get a move in edgewise.

Also, I've done some joke MK dittos before... it seems that MK's Ftilt is important like Falcon's Jab is in his ditto... does that sound about right?

 

[-LzR-]

Well I use ftilt a lot in ditto. And GSL when they screw up. Finland's other MK's suck.

And if you use MK for ditto only, soon you realize how good he is and then you say Lucario goodbye. It happened to me with Rob kinda so I don't want the same to happen to you.

And I think all MK mains know the ditto, at least I do.

 

[John12346]

Well I use ftilt a lot in ditto. And GSL when they screw up. Finland's other MK's suck.

And if you use MK for ditto only, soon you realize how good he is and then you say Lucario goodbye. It happened to me with Rob kinda so I don't want the same to happen to you.

And I think all MK mains know the ditto, at least I do.

Trust me, my MK sucks really, REALLY badly. There's no chance I'll ever be able to use him at an adequate enough level in any other matchup, but...

...as far as vs. another MK goes, I can see that happening for the main reason that the MU is significantly different than any other character in the game. Against any other character, the MU is to do really gay **** until victory is your destiny, and frankly, I have no idea on how to do that.

In the ditto, however, it seems like it comes down to whoever has the most smarts. Spacing, range, power... it all really comes down to who's focusing more in that case. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[-LzR-]

So you pick MK only to play his hardest MU? Wow

 

[John12346]

MK usually is the best choice in a matchup you're having trouble with, after all. XD