Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Meta Knight

[Teh Future]

i dont think this has been mentioned:

shuttle loop > tornado if you hit nado with the start of SL. if they are recovering with nado predictably then you can kill <100

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQWI6bl-IrM#t=0m15s

 

[Kaffei]

Okay, to confirm:

Shuttle Loop > Tornado at the start of SL
Shuttle Loop < Tornado at the apex of SL


Correct?

 

[Teh Future]

yep

10cats

 

[vato_break]

Very useful information.

 

[Jem.]

Fair is not a safe move vs metaknight. MK ditto is changing.

Recovering low is your best option vs MK, who said it was stupid? Good low recovery beats good edgeguarding. Just use your jumps, uair, if they come down up b immediately. It's easy to recover as MK in the ditto from below.

Nair really isnt that safe either, but has it uses. (I'm talking top level play)

If you're being juggled and such in the air, never try to just air dodge through them. You can do perfect frame dair but only m2k is perfect at that. The best thing to do is to go for the ledge everytime. Just glide away for the ledge.

 

[lilseph]

Fair is not a safe move vs metaknight. MK ditto is changing.

Care to explain? Every MK ditto i have been in i always do fair and ftilt and i seem to do just fine. (I'm not a top level MK and i havn't played any but still)

 

[Jem.]

Care to explain? Every MK ditto i have been in i always do fair and ftilt and i seem to do just fine. (I'm not a top level MK and i havn't played any but still)

I'm not a top level player, but when I play all the top MK's (and just discussion since I guess I know a bit about the game) a lot of MK's approach with fair. Even retreating fair can be punished. I guess what I should say is fair isn't as good as most people think it is in the matchup.

Also, at 0%, you can dthrow into buffered ftilt, you'll get about 20% total (even when they di away, first hit of ftilt catches them before they get away)

or if they di inside, uair string into nair (i only do 2-3 uairs because i just expect everyone to sdi)

 

[Kaffei]

There is one way M2K does retreating fairs. I think it is slightly safer than regular retreating fairs. It looks like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s99g9ysehSY#t=1m47s

Does that even do anything? I'd like your input jem

 

[Jem.]

You mean just turn around short hop fairing? or just going backwards and fairing in general? (retreating)

fair has its uses in the matchup, but i think everyone thinks its the bread and butter of the matchup. it's definently not. fair on shield is NOT SAFE. so you shouldnt put yourself in that position.

 

[Kaffei]

He's basically doing a pivot walk but each pivot he does a SH fair, does that make sense? I'm not really sure how to coin it lol

 

[Jem.]

I know what it is don't worry. I mean, if it hits it's safe, if it hits shield its not safe.. Generally any type of fair is not a safe move when you're both grounded going for control of the match/stage/momentum.

 

[Kaffei]

ohh ok. I understand

 

[Orion*]

You can do perfect frame dair

wut???

also, everything else jem has said is gold. if people fair alot, run up and powershield -> grab OR walk forward after they fair dash attack

the cool thing about dittos is that, nothing is really That safe and we both have the tools so it comes down to who knows the matchups more.

 

[lilseph]

To sum all of that up, fair is good move in the ditto but not as good as once thought.

 

[Jem.]

wut???

also, everything else jem has said is gold. if people fair alot, run up and powershield -> grab OR walk forward after they fair dash attack

the cool thing about dittos is that, nothing is really That safe and we both have the tools so it comes down to who knows the matchups more.

some people just try to jump and dair once theyre above the opposing MK when trying to get back to the stage. if you time your dair right, you'll beat out most moves i think. (Some MK's, I know me too included, if the MK above me is at high percent, and I see they're trying to challenge me, i try to wait and get a sneak attack up b in then get the edgeguard. but if they time the dair perfectly, it'll stop the aerial shuttle loop.

tl;dr, always go for ledge anyways unless youre m2k.

 

[Orion*]

some people just try to jump and dair once theyre above the opposing MK when trying to get back to the stage. if you time your dair right, you'll beat out most moves i think. (Some MK's, I know me too included, if the MK above me is at high percent, and I see they're trying to challenge me, i try to wait and get a sneak attack up b in then get the edgeguard. but if they time the dair perfectly, it'll stop the aerial shuttle loop.

tl;dr, always go for ledge anyways unless youre m2k.

edit: nvm okay

alrighty i didnt know that was called perfect frame dair lol

i just assumed people knew dair beat SL if you timed it right, XD

 

[Jem.]

haha ive known about it since like 2008, i just call it a different name i guess. i just call it a perfect frame dair cause if you time it wrong you get hit.

also, try not to air dodge unless you have to. nothing is easier in the matchup than when someone air dodges.

 

[Orion*]

you can also time nair, but its much harder. it has won me a tournament set in like... 08 though ._.

last hit last stock ran off stage and timed that **** LOL

 

[Exdeath]

He's basically doing a pivot walk but each pivot he does a SH fair, does that make sense? I'm not really sure how to coin it lol

It's called RARFair.

 

[Kaffei]

That works

 

[Teh Future]

i always get hit by glide attack when mk recovers

I know tornado can beat it but what is the best option when they glide from beneath the stage (ledge in.?)

 

[Kaffei]

How do they glide from beneath the stage? You mean they glide low?

 

[Jem.]

i always get hit by glide attack when mk recovers

I know tornado can beat it but what is the best option when they glide from beneath the stage (ledge in.?)

Walk away

grounded up b

tornado

fsmash if you want to risk the trade

If you aren't comfortable vs it, just walk away until he gets back on the stage.

 

[Teh Future]

gliding is dum -_-

if i try to go out and tornado it they can just glide over it.

if they go low i can't follow them down fast enough and hit them and they get to the other ledge

 

[Kaffei]

you are not being smart

 

[Teh Future]

lol ok.

glide is too fast, they can just react to what you are doing and go above or below you

 

[Yunior597]

Ok lets finish this discussion soon... we need to move to more matchups...

Well

What to do:

Spaced Ftilt, Dtilt, and Fair, sometimes use dash attack as a surprise attack and follow up with a grab if they are at low perfect, sometimes they do nair, just power shield and grab.

If they are air camping use Up, or Utilt it will work better if are on a stage with platforms, so you can juggle them... if you manage to do an up air string, finish it with up b always...

What not to do:
Don't dair camp it's kinda useless you will just get punished for that... don't do many tornado or not at all it's easily punished almost by any attack of MK.

Never do a rising fair if you make it too high you will get punished by fair o nair...

Never recover the same way... try to use different methods to make it, mk its kinda predictible when recoverying and you could get hit by Up B which puts you at a band position... still mk can recover easy.

That's all i can get out of my mind xD i barely lose this matchup... it's mostly about mind games...

 

[Zozefup]

i always get hit by glide attack when mk recovers

You need to be more specific lol.

If I get hit far away from the stage, I start gliding toward the stage. Its the safest way to approach the stage. Glide attack beats all of MKs areals, so you cant chase MK way off the stage when he starts his glide lol.

Your options are:

If he glides near the stage, your SL will beat it.
Wait on the ledge for the MK to cancel their glide attack.
Glide after them lol.

If you wait on the ledge, they have to glide low and cancel their glide. If they glide above you, it's easy to punish. And if they try to glide attack you, you can just SL them.

If you figure out what to do when they cancel their glide low and you are on the ledge, let me know lol. Its hard to punish them because they still have all their jumps and lots of recovery options. I usually just do the usual falling Nair> SL snap and hope they mess up somewhere

 

[Orion*]

gliding is dum -_-

this. but only the way nairo does it >_>

 

[Kaffei]

lol how does nairo do it

 

[Orion*]

i honestly. dont know.

ive spent time in training mode just like ****ing with glide attack and no matter what i do, he DOESNT get punished for the same **** that i try and do if i copy him.

shuttle looping his glide attack is not a good option because he tilts it up, and hits you after the invince frames go off (its hard to explain w/out seeing it) and then you trade, except you take more damage and youre above him >_>

he doesnt give you enough time to nado him, hes not stupid, so youre best options are to like dash and uair, or usmash, or something not really big as a punishment. and his spacing for on block glide attack is sooooo good

 

[Kaffei]

I wanna try that... All I know is that glide attack is harder to punish on block if you are gliding slower (because of less velocity & momentum) i think

lol there is so much stuff to learn it's really exciting =D

i love mk <33

 

[BluePeachy100]

I personally think it's because Nairo has the power of a 13-year old imagination behind him.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Nairo2gud. Seriously, wtf is up with that guy. He's 12 and wins nationals.

 

[Orion*]

I wanna try that... All I know is that glide attack is harder to punish on block if you are gliding slower (because of less velocity & momentum) i think

lol there is so much stuff to learn it's really exciting =D

i love mk <33

???

actually didnt know this but... assuming youre gliding at someone how are you slowing down lmao

 

[Player-4]

Nairo2gud. Seriously, wtf is up with that guy. He's 12 and wins nationals.

Lolwut, what nationals has he won?

 

[Kaffei]

???

actually didnt know this but... assuming youre gliding at someone how are you slowing down lmao

Well, if you already gained a whole bunch of momentum from gliding downwards it's basically impossible (I can think of some ways but I really am not good at explaining so I would have to like show you in person/vid), but if you started it and didn't really go down (like a default glide) then you can tilt it SLIGHTLY up and you will slow down a lot it's basically like stalling an airplane.

 

[BluePeachy100]

basically you only slightly angle it enough to continue the glide, but not to pick up a lot of speed from it.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Lolwut, what nationals has he won?

Brawl- @ Apex 2010

 

[Exdeath]

Brawl- @ Apex 2010

This is Brawl, not Brawl+/-/!/@/#/$/%/^/&/*/(/)/_/=/etc.