Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[Ghostbone]

Thanks, I'll keep all that in mind.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

So... Is just dair camping/running away from snake all day a good plan? I was playing against Akuma and it seemed that he had to be incredibly careful not to blow himself to bits to even hit me.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Get up attack does just work, if they got the wrong spacing.
Down B works, if they charge the fsmash or if you predict their next fsmash.
It´s an underused strategy, since it´s easy to punish, if your opponent doesn´t just mindless charges fsmashes.
You could try to glide on a fsmashing opponent, since glide beats fsmash (learn the spacing), but he could just release the fsmash, if he sees you gliding and then punish you for it.
Jumping above him with DJ from the ledge/ledgejump also works, but that´s punishable, since it puts you in a juggling position.
As you see there is no save way to get back, but you got multiple options what to do.
Tornadoing in also works.
You can nado above the fsmash or use the laggy gaps between the smashes, to punish it.
You could also try to mindgame him, by nadoing, waiting outside of his fsmash range, wait for him to release the fsmash and then going in.

There are lots of options, how to deal with the situation.
The above are probably the basics.

Or... you could just stay on the ledge, keep planking and wait for your opponent to do something else, fail at it, and reset positions.

Spoiler

I always do that tornado thing. Is somehow really effective

So... Is just dair camping/running away from snake all day a good plan? I was playing against Akuma and it seemed that he had to be incredibly careful not to blow himself to bits to even hit me.

Snake is really hard to approach to, but just trying to outcamp him do not work normally.... But M2K is not normal, he somehow finds gaps between grenade drops/throws and punish them.

 

[Staco]

Most people are not good at planking.
They just throw out UAirs always at the same timing, you could rush in and punish or even stage spike them.

 

[Boofy!]

^this

once people find out you have the same rhythm offstage with your jumps/aerials, only takes one read.

 

[Orion*]

Empty hop. Watch what they do. Then proceed to ****.

Or they do nothing, then **** your landing

So... Is just dair camping/running away from snake all day a good plan? I was playing against Akuma and it seemed that he had to be incredibly careful not to blow himself to bits to even hit me.

The better the player, the worse this strat gets

 

[-LzR-]

There shouldn't be enough lag in an empty to hop to get punished much.

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

is broken

 

[-LzR-]

Play times over Star Fox.

 

[Kaffei]

There shouldn't be enough lag in an empty to hop to get punished much.

false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false

 

[-LzR-]

So everyone telling me emptyhop is a good thing to do were ****ing morons?

 

[Player-4]

So everyone telling me emptyhop is a good thing to do were ****ing morons?

Now you're getting it

 

[Conviction]

LOL then what am I supposed to do?

 

[Kaffei]

empty hop is not bad but im just saying it's indeed quite punishable

 

[-LzR-]

All right, from what I heard is that you said empty hop is a terrible thing to do which kinda surprised me.

 

[Kaffei]

no it's not terrible lol

 

[-LzR-]

Exactly that is why I was so confused about it

 

[Exdeath]

All right, from what I heard is that you said empty hop is a terrible thing to do which kinda surprised me.

It's not bad, but it has an enormous window for punishment and isn't something to consistently use for bait. It usually works better as a bait near kill percent when people are more inclined toward staying in their shield, which can allow you to poke them for holding shield in front of you.

 

[-LzR-]

Well MK has so fast and safe moves you can still use them as they are safe. So empty hop is limited for MK? It seems to be the best when used in a juggling situation. Lower level players will ALWAYS airdodge afterwards, but we all know how to beat those anyways =/

 

[earla]

i was playing a marth on lylat.

i get up attacked whenever they up b'd and it kept hitting them off. just wondering does mk's get up attack hit slightly below the stage? is it a shorter version of melees rolling from the ledge to make it so the opponent can't grab it ?

what are good ways to get down from gaw juggling? if you air dodge their uair spam you can get frame trapped into a smash attack.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

what are good ways to get down from gaw juggling? if you air dodge their uair spam you can get frame trapped into a smash attack.

Head for the outside of the stage. They can't commit as far as you can, and recovering against G&W safely is far easier than getting down from uair juggles.

 

[Denti]

So I need clarification about the functions of tornado's priority. How many B inputs needed to reach certain points of priority, what areas/times of the tornado lack priority, frame information, all of that good stuff. I don't care if it's a lot of complicated information either (I'm expecting it to be, haha)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

The priority of tornado does not depend on the number of times you press B. This illusion comes from the fact that the more you press B, the higher you go, and that the tornado is hardest to beat from the sides and bottom. The tornado's priority is constant until it ends, and any move that is both sufficiently disjointed and does more than 10 damage will break through. There are not that many of those in the game. Any move that has invincibility frames (DDD utilt) or can sneak in between the hitboxes (Luigi Fsmash/usmash) will break through 100% of the time with correct spacing. You can always beat it from the top.

 

[Orion*]

i think many times if you read it it's easier to beat the start up with moves like ddd's ftilt

 

[Exdeath]

So I need clarification about the functions of tornado's priority. How many B inputs needed to reach certain points of priority, what areas/times of the tornado lack priority, frame information, all of that good stuff. I don't care if it's a lot of complicated information either (I'm expecting it to be, haha)

Assuming that you're asking because you want to get moves through as Olimar, every one of Olimar's moves (even Pikmin latch) will go through the top and stay there because MK's body/head don't have a hit box.

OoS options will vary by how stale Neutral B is.

Most of Olimar's move set will beat an aerial Neutral B, but only at specific angles and the timing/spacing is tight enough that it very rarely happens. Nair can beat Neutral B from below at a specific angle and Nair/Uair can clash cancel>hit MK if it's grounded (practically this can happen if MK moves onto a platform while using Neutral B ~correctly, which is more likely to happen on a stage with shifting platforms like Lylat).

Technically it is possible for Olimar to Down-B>stuff through Neutral B.

The priority of tornado does not depend on the number of times you press B. This illusion comes from the fact that the more you press B, the higher you go, and that the tornado is hardest to beat from the sides and bottom. The tornado's priority is constant until it ends, and any move that is both sufficiently disjointed and does more than 10 damage will break through. There are not that many of those in the game. Any move that has invincibility frames (DDD utilt) or can sneak in between the hitboxes (Luigi Fsmash/usmash) will break through 100% of the time with correct spacing. You can always beat it from the top.

Actually pressing B is related to priority, just not in the traditional sense.

 

[earla]

vs gaw, whats best options to punish them planking?

feels dangerous to grab the edge then invincible nair cos its hard to time + if they ledgehop attack.

 

[Orion*]

vs gaw, whats best options to punish them planking?

feels dangerous to grab the edge then invincible nair cos its hard to time + if they ledgehop attack.

grab the ledge or grounded upB

although the upB is probably more scary imo... if you miss expect to get uaired potentially

 

[Denti]

Thank you guys for your input. What I was trying to do was figure out when and when not to F smash nado with Yellow F smash. It seems to beat it near the bottom of nado half of the time. I was just hoping for som clarification on that XD

 

[earla]

hey, what are mk's best and worst zones?

tips on zoning with mk?

 

[TSM ZeRo]

hey, what are mk's best and worst zones?

tips on zoning with mk?

IMO:

Meta Knight's best zone is below the opponent, at U-Air, Shuttle Loop range.

Meta Knight's worst zone is above the opponent, (because the opponent can wait the predictable D-Air/Tornado).

The best way to practice MK's zoning is to play a lot of Snakes CPU's, and practice hitting him with the tip of your sword every single time (F-Air, D-Air, F-Tilt/D-Tilt), imagine that he's ALWAYS holding a grenade. You can do the same if you have a Snake player in your area too.

 

[F A N G]

EDIT: Wrong place

 

[theunabletable]

All right, from what I heard is that you said empty hop is a terrible thing to do which kinda surprised me.

I'm not a big fan of empty short hop personally, because I feel it kinda limits my options.

Like if I'm trying to bait someone, and they do something I can normally punish with a dashing shield, or dash attack, or dash grab, I can't really do that from an empty hop until I hit the ground (unless it's already in fair range, because MKs air speed is bad).

Although I personally have been practicing with just jumping as a bait. Not short hop, like full hop or multijumps. It's high enough that their general ground tactics don't work (like if I short hop, I can still get tilted or grabbed or SH aerial'd or they can run in and shield and limit my options, but if I'm too high for that to hit, they can't really do any of that haha), and it makes people want to jump at you, and if you're spaced right, you can throw out a rising dair to go above their attack, and hit them with the dair, or you can fastfall air dodge it, and now you're below them. If you're smart with your fastfalls and your jumps, you can bait a surprising amount of stuff haha.

Although the airdodge thing is more of a mixup, but I found that I felt that I had a lot more options when I really refined my air game by just spacing stuff and mixing it up from full hops.

Empty shorthop is kinda lame, though imo, because your opponent does the same stuff he'd normally do if you were on the ground, but you have less options than normal. I mean it's good sometimes (everything has a place in this game).

To force a reaction... well tornado always forces a reaction of some sort. That's why it works really well against ICs when Nana's about to die offstage. You can just nado Popo before he's able to rescue her with an up B and he HAS to do something that takes up time.

Moving into a position where they can't hit you without committing, but you can hit them faster than they can react is good. If you just walk at someone, and stay just outside your own Ftilt range, they kinda have to do something because you can fair or ftilt or dtilt at them at any time.

There are a lot of ways to force a reaction (throwing out a hitbox that'll hit and needs to be dealt with forces a reaction, but isn't particularly safe because a lot of reactions simply beat that haha), but not many particularly safe ones that aren't more psychological in nature.

Like just walking at someone, or moving into your own range without committing doesn't force a reaction literally, but it makes them kinda need to react because they're in danger if they don't.

 

[F A N G]

Now I do have a question, which of MK's attacks don't have laser priority?

 

[Exdeath]

Now I do have a question, which of MK's attacks don't have laser priority?

Dash attack, Neutral B, Side-B, and Glide Attack.

 

[Exdeath]

Now I do have a question, which of MK's attacks don't have laser priority?

Dash attack, Neutral B, Side-B, and Glide Attack.

 

[victoryismydestiny]

does mk have any inescapable combos? if so, at what percent/against which characters are they inescapable?

 

[-LzR-]

Probably stuff like Uair to uair at very low %. Nothing is guaranteed, but everything works. THIS IS BRAAAAWWWLLL

 

[Kaffei]

does mk have any inescapable combos? if so, at what percent/against which characters are they inescapable?

dtilt lock
infinite dtilt lock (very hard to do)
some low % uair combos
dtilt trip to dash attack / grab / whatever

 

[ぱみゅ]

Dash attack, Neutral B, Side-B, and Glide Attack.

IIRC, Dimensional Cape Attack is also non-trascendant.

 

[theunabletable]

dash attack to buffered uair might be guaranteed at some percentages.

First and second hit fair true combo into GSL at certain percentages IIRC, and first hit combos into buffered uair I think at a lot of percentages, and first and second hit of bair (like if you land during the first or second hit) true combo into a lot (or atleast seem to. They might as well because I've never not gotten a combo off first hit of bair lol) like turn around grab, turnaround dsmash, aerials, etc

At certain low percentages percentages (the hitstun is long enough for you to follow up with any of your aerials, IIRC, until like 37 or 38%. Whenever they're still in tumble, essentially. It's just a matter of if your attacks are still in range afterwards) tipper dair leads to anything you're in range for, which can be another tipper dair (if you're offstage), a fair (which if you did a SH dair, and now do a falling fair at the right percentage, it'll only hit with the first one or two hits, and you have a LOT of guaranteed. Same with dair > landing bair, but that's even better. I'm not sure if landing dair to Dtilt or Ftilt is guaranteed, but it always seems to work when they don't go into tumble haha.

I remember one time I was practicing against Fox, and at 0% I did something like a landing bair>buffered uair>landing bair>buffered uair>landing bair>buffered uair but idk if it was guaranteed and I haven't tried it again since lol.

I'm sure MK has a lot of funny buffered uair combos against Fox at 0%