Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[Minwu]

What's the best way to edgeguard Luigi?

Rising dair diagonally above him, closer to the stage horizontally than he is. Do it until he wastes his midair jump then grab the ledge.

Who does MK hav trouble with?

A better MK.

 

[brinboy789]

Who does MK hav trouble with?

snake. in particular, a snake who has good stage pressure

changed his answer for the benefit of mankind

 

[Deoxys]

changed his answer for the benefit of mankind

Lol, QFT.

X

 

[Minwu]

mk haz teh sword pressuer

 

[DanGR]

Rising dair diagonally above him, closer to the stage horizontally than he is. Do it until he wastes his midair jump then grab the ledge.

well, he tornados up to the ledge and then upbs. Are you sure dair will beat it out?

 

[Minwu]

Dair is more disjointed, I don't think his tornado even has a hitbox above Luigi.

 

[Popertop]

Yeah, Dair ***** Luigi off the stage.
It'll beat his Side-b too.

 

[Luccie]

Just as a question, why did you all go for Meta Knight?

I'm not saying "O bcz he'z top tr" unless that's the reason you played as him when you first picked him up. I'm saying what made you FIRST wanted to play and main/secondary with him when you started.

 

[Popertop]

I'm picking him up now 'cause he's too good at gimping, and he won't die unless you kill him out right, he can recover from anywhere.
Also his nair is sexy.

 

[fromundaman]

Just as a question, why did you all go for Meta Knight?

I'm not saying "O bcz he'z top tr" unless that's the reason you played as him when you first picked him up. I'm saying what made you FIRST wanted to play and main/secondary with him when you started.

MK has been badass ever since I first saw him in KSS on the SNES. As soon as the first Smash Bros came out, my bro and I were going on about how MK (among other characters, like Johnny Jones) should be in this game.

Then we saw the SSBB trailer, and we both vowed to get good with him. He found Ike and abandoned that notion. I did not.

Unfortunately, I then joined smashboards, saw that everyone hates MK, that he seems far too predictable (especially when I play him) in comparison to other characters, and that if you play a MK, the general reaction is that if you win against MK, you are god and/or the other is a complete and utter noob, or that if you lose against him it's "only because they used MK". It seems you can't be better than someone if you play MK. People act like you're cheating, and as such, I kind of stopped enjoying playing as him. Ah well.

 

[Tero.]

Just as a question, why did you all go for Meta Knight?

I'm not saying "O bcz he'z top tr" unless that's the reason you played as him when you first picked him up. I'm saying what made you FIRST wanted to play and main/secondary with him when you started.

When i got Brawl (February) i was like "wow mk is cool, i'll try him", then i was like "aww not enough finishers" (<-- i lol at that today). Last month i was like "wow mk is cool, wow mk is top tier"

 

[Affinity]

Just as a question, why did you all go for Meta Knight?

I'm not saying "O bcz he'z top tr" unless that's the reason you played as him when you first picked him up. I'm saying what made you FIRST wanted to play and main/secondary with him when you started.

No offense, but please, nobody respond to this^ question after this post.

The same question has been asked on these boards a sickening amount of times and its pretty pointless.

 

[da K.I.D.]

It seems like a good idea, but if you miss (and I've tried this and missed), it can easily turn into a free snake fsmash, or at least a ftilt/utilt.

I think if snake fast falls, he can airdodge through the entire tornado, but I havn't explicitly tested it.

And yes... I do post on these forums like once a year

if youve tried it and missed than you just suck. rofl<3
do it again and get it right. i just watched a vid of M2K doing it to jesse on jesses wii.
p.s. i dont think you can fastfall a AD directly out of the cypher.

One good way is to shield the dash attack and continue to shield. If he down smashes and you shield it, you can score a free down smash of your own on him. Of course, if you keep shielding consistently, be careful as you will start to get grabbed instead.

wrong again nub cakeums.
the correct answer is punish with down air out of shield

 

[Reapd]

No offense, but please, nobody respond to this^ question after this post.

The same question has been asked on these boards a sickening amount of times and its pretty pointless.

Isn't there a rule on the character discussion boards not to ask questions on why they chose the character along with tanking on them????

 

[Tyr_03]

What are Metaknight's worst stages and why?

 

[Deoxys]

What are Metaknight's worst stages and why?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187501

Because the ceilings are low. Other reasons make YI(M) the worst for MK against most characters, but I'm far too lazy to get into them and all you need to know is that YI(M) is the worst unless the opponent is especially hurt by it too or if the pipes aid planking.

 

[Infinitysmash]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187501

Because the ceilings are low. Other reasons make YI(M) the worst for MK against most characters, but I'm far too lazy to get into them and all you need to know is that YI(M) is the worst unless the opponent is especially hurt by it too or if the pipes aid planking.

I can't agree with that list in regards to counterpicking against him. I <3 Corneria with Metaknight, there's SOOO much I can play around with there.

I also think that his 'best' list should have Skyworld replaced with Delfino. Hooray approach options!

Edit - I'd also like to point out that they have Luigi's Mansion as one of Falco's worst and watching Sethlon literally run circles around Dojo on that stage makes me think it's really good for Falco.

 

[Tbagz]

Just as a question, why did you all go for Meta Knight?

I'm not saying "O bcz he'z top tr" unless that's the reason you played as him when you first picked him up. I'm saying what made you FIRST wanted to play and main/secondary with him when you started.

so my step brother would stop flying in the air when i was ike in the first week the game came out. i needed sonme one to catch up with him when he would just fly around hyrule (this was before i got in the competitive scene)

and i loved him after i 3 stocked my step brother with my first time using MK lol. ive been with him since that day

 

[Affinity]

so my step brother would stop flying in the air when i was ike in the first week the game came out. i needed sonme one to catch up with him when he would just fly around hyrule (this was before i got in the competitive scene)

and i loved him after i 3 stocked my step brother with my first time using MK lol. ive been with him since that day

Wow...

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5919452&postcount=412

 

[Deoxys]

I can't agree with that list in regards to counterpicking against him. I <3 Corneria with Metaknight, there's SOOO much I can play around with there.

I also think that his 'best' list should have Skyworld replaced with Delfino. Hooray approach options!

Edit - I'd also like to point out that they have Luigi's Mansion as one of Falco's worst and watching Sethlon literally run circles around Dojo on that stage makes me think it's really good for Falco.

How much have you played on Skyworld? Mach Tornado is AMAZING on Skyworld. I've had DK players literally quit friendlies because I easily got them to like 90% without getting touched just by using the Nado intelligently.

So, what's good for MK on Corneria? Please give a concrete example of things you can play around with there. Also, what would you say his 3rd worst stage is then?

 

[The Real Inferno]

On Corneria Meta Knight can camp the Right side easily. What happens is it's incredibly hard for most characters to approach him here. He can shuttle loop snap to the fin for ridiculous invincibility stalling until they get over it. He can Dtilt against the wall for some free hits into Dsmash. The short side allows for simplistic and effective Shuttle loop kills. Usmash can actually kill -off the top- on the fin as can utilt because the cieling is so ridiculously short. Not to mention Uair chains can end in Tornado off the top on Characters like Snake, Donkey Kong, Dedede, Bowser and Ganondorf. There are others that will work on but I can't recall off the top of my head. Meta Knight's Dtilt's odd hitbox makes short hop arial approaches annoying if he is on the fin slope. It can force many characters into an easily punished full hop. Really, the only thing bad about this stage for Meta himself is how quickly he dies off the top.

Also Yoshi's Island Pipes is never legal anywhere ever (the same goes for Skyworld usually) so I don't see why anyone would even bother mentioning them. Nobody bothers to note how bad Flatworld and Marios Bros are for him lol.

 

[Infinitysmash]

If I were to add a third 'bad' stage for Metaknight it would probably be Final Destination (yes, I said it) because that's the stage he has the lowest number of approach options on and he has nothing to play around with. Even on Smashville, the closest thing to Final D IMO, there's that platform to play around on and you have more approach options to play around with. To be perfectly honest when I'm playing Metaknight dittos Final D is usually the stage I counterpick if I lose because I can be patient and control the map against aggressive Metaknights by forcing them to approach me and reacting properly.

InfernoRage did a pretty good job of describing Corneria. I don't necessarily think it's a GOOD stage for him, but I don't think it's bad for him either. I'm perfectly comfortable on Corneria, especially on the right side of the stage where you can do fun things with your B moves, throws and (if you have good timing) tilt locks. I treat the rest of the ship like I would Final D. This gives us one very good area and one relatively 'bad' area. Just stick to the right as much as possible and Metaknight is fine.

 

[Deoxys]

On Corneria Meta Knight can camp the Right side easily. What happens is it's incredibly hard for most characters to approach him here. He can shuttle loop snap to the fin for ridiculous invincibility stalling until they get over it. He can Dtilt against the wall for some free hits into Dsmash. The short side allows for simplistic and effective Shuttle loop kills. Usmash can actually kill -off the top- on the fin as can dtilt because the cieling is so ridiculously short. Not to mention Uair chains can end in Tornado off the top on Characters like Snake, Donkey Kong, Dedede, Bowser and Ganondorf. There are others that will work on but I can't recall off the top of my head. Meta Knight's Dtilt's odd hitbox makes short hop arial approaches annoying if he is on the fin slope. It can force many characters into an easily punished full hop. Really, the only thing bad about this stage for Meta himself is how quickly he dies off the top.

Also Yoshi's Island Pipes is never legal anywhere ever (the same goes for Skyworld usually) so I don't see why anyone would even bother mentioning them. Nobody bothers to note how bad Flatworld and Marios Bros are for him lol.

How can dtilt kill off the top? I just don't see it. How does SL to the fin result in more ridiculous invincibility than just grabbing it normally? What is odd about MK's dtilt? Height, range? Obviously characters who don't have projectiles won't CP him there, so those reasons just demonstrate how it's not always bad for MK. Low ceilings hurt MK more than most characters. What's MK's 3rd worst stage then?

YI(M) is legal plenty of places. Mario Bros and Flatzone 2 are just ********.

InfernoRage did a pretty good job of describing Corneria. I don't necessarily think it's a GOOD stage for him, but I don't think it's bad for him either. I'm perfectly comfortable on Corneria, especially on the right side of the stage where you can do fun things with your B moves, throws and (if you have good timing) tilt locks. I treat the rest of the ship like I would Final D. This gives us one very good area and one relatively 'bad' area. Just stick to the right as much as possible and Metaknight is fine.

If they're ahead or have projectiles you can't just stick to the right.

 

[Infinitysmash]

If they're ahead or have projectiles you can't just stick to the right.

So don't let them get ahead of you and dodge the projectiles.

The stage is small enough that you can chase people down and with the kind of damage Metaknight does with several of his attacks keeping ahead of them shouldn't be a problem.

(As a side note - They should change this rule; it's allowing all the campy nonsense that's going on. Camping/'Planking' isn't a game mechanic, it's abusing a rule that I really feel that they could improve on, although I don't have any suggestions to how they can improve it at this time. The answer isn't to ban the abuse maneuver; the answer is to change the rule that allows that maneuver to be abused.)

 

[Deoxys]

So don't let them get ahead of you and dodge the projectiles.

The stage is small enough that you can chase people down and with the kind of damage Metaknight does with several of his attacks keeping ahead of them shouldn't be a problem.

(As a side note - They should change this rule; it's allowing all the campy nonsense that's going on. Camping/'Planking' isn't a game mechanic, it's abusing a rule that I really feel that they could improve on, although I don't have any suggestions to how they can improve it at this time. The answer isn't to ban the abuse maneuver; the answer is to change the rule that allows that maneuver to be abused.)

You can't dodge their projectiles forever, can you?

Everyone wants to ban ledge camping but can't think of a way to do it.

 

[The Real Inferno]

What Characters have dangerous projectile that hit you from the fin when you are camping? Snake. That's one character with a projectile (actually he has more than one that will reach there) that reaches you there. Lasers aren't going to suddenly gain Arrow Looping power. Pit's arrow looping is too slow for you to ever get hit by it down there anyway unless you're a complete moron who goes, "Oh ****, Pit shot an arrow off randomly in a stupid direction, I shouldn't prepare to power shield at all." I'm trying to think of any other projectile that can hit Meta down there at all and I cannot come up with one at the moment.

As for Dtilt killing off the top, you know **** well I meant Utilt

Also Shuttle Looping the fin creates a nice big poking hitbox to approachers that just grabbing the fin does not. Also, what (relevent) region actually plays with Pipes on? It's absolutely horrid and the only reason for anyone to ever be using it is to specifically counter Meta Knight. We don't give special consideration to other characters like that. It's a double standard if we're going to sit around and tell ourselves he's not broken then specifically try to manipulate the ruleset to counteract just him.

(As a side note - They should change this rule; it's allowing all the campy nonsense that's going on. Camping/'Planking' isn't a game mechanic, it's abusing a rule that I really feel that they could improve on, although I don't have any suggestions to how they can improve it at this time. The answer isn't to ban the abuse maneuver; the answer is to change the rule that allows that maneuver to be abused.)

Yeah this is a real problem that needs to be properly addressed. But what would Plank do if he couldn't win by time? The only two ways I can imagine off the top of my head to fix this would be to remove the time limit or change the rules to allow Sudden Death to count instead of winning by percent. Both have their inherent flaws of course. The first allows matches to become extremely long campfests and the second screws over some characters who simply don't stand a chance in Sudden Death. Characters like ROB, Sonic, Meta etc would camp until the bob-ombs blew up their opponents most likely.

 

[Deoxys]

As for Dtilt killing off the top, you know **** well I meant Utilt

I didn't know for sure, and I haven't seen you make mistakes in your posts before.

Also, what (relevent) region actually plays with Pipes on? It's absolutely horrid and the only reason for anyone to ever be using it is to specifically counter Meta Knight. We don't give special consideration to other characters like that. It's a double standard if we're going to sit around and tell ourselves he's not broken then specifically try to manipulate the ruleset to counteract just him.

Hmm? Why is it horrid? If it's because if you approach DDD from the right like a ****** you lose a stock, then I fail to see what's so horrid about that.

 

[Infinitysmash]

You can't dodge their projectiles forever, can you?

Everyone wants to ban ledge camping but can't think of a way to do it.

Projectiles are easy to dodge. They follow a predictable path and are easy to move away from. In theory, yes you should be able to dodge them 'forever.' Actual results may vary

I think I'll brainstorm ways to change the ledge campyness of the game. In related news, Firefox has no problem with the word campyness. Random.

 

[The Real Inferno]

I didn't know for sure, and I haven't seen you make mistakes in your posts before.

I usually catch them right after I post, I failed

Hmm? Why is it horrid? If it's because if you approach DDD from the right like a ****** you lose a stock, then I fail to see what's so horrid about that.

You have alot of weird, bad things that can happen on it. The hole messes with poor Ness and Lucas, Ganondorf can kill people in 2-3 hits off the side, Toon Link has a 0-death Dsmash on the side, Shuttle Loop kills ludicrously low out of uair chains, allowing for 0-deaths from MK, of course Dedede has his CG off the side as does Yoshi. I'm not sure if Falco can do his up a slope. On the right side, Samus' Zair chain can become ridiculous against slower or larger characters. It's not that one character gets something really gay it's that the very nature of the stage allows for skill-less kills by alot of characters, the kind of thing we often try to get rid of.

 

[Deoxys]

You have alot of weird, bad things that can happen on it. The hole messes with poor Ness and Lucas, Ganondorf can kill people in 2-3 hits off the side, Toon Link has a 0-death Dsmash on the side, Shuttle Loop kills ludicrously low out of uair chains, allowing for 0-deaths from MK, of course Dedede has his CG off the side as does Yoshi. I'm not sure if Falco can do his up a slope. On the right side, Samus' Zair chain can become ridiculous against slower or larger characters. It's not that one character gets something really gay it's that the very nature of the stage allows for skill-less kills by alot of characters, the kind of thing we often try to get rid of.

TL's Dsmash can't be DI'd out of? If you approach from the left most of these things don't matter.

 

[Affinity]

TL's Dsmash can't be DI'd out of? If you approach from the left most of these things don't matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWHT25VtW9c

 

[The Real Inferno]

TL's Dsmash can't be DI'd out of? If you approach from the left most of these things don't matter.

While this is partially true it is hardly what we would call balanced play and despite this being a straw man is equivilent of saying that Big Blue is counterpick legal if everyone just approaches from the air and plays it safe. You can see the inherent flaw here. I also forgot to mention Metaknight can use Dairs to bounce anyone who fails to tech right off the side along the slope. Not to mention that if they tech Meta Knight can punish a forward tech with a quick bair to set the situation up all over again (if they tech in place or backwards they wll either continue to eat Dairs or be pushed right off the side). I personally don't fnd Yoshi's Island Pipes to be bad for Meta because of these things unless he's fighting Yoshi.

 

[brinboy789]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWHT25VtW9c

LOL, took away 3 G&W stocks! LOL

 

[Infinitysmash]

I love that video! lmao

Nothin but love Hylian, nothin but love. No homo.

 

[Deoxys]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWHT25VtW9c

So he DI'd?

While this is partially true it is hardly what we would call balanced play and despite this being a straw man is equivilent of saying that Big Blue is counterpick legal if everyone just approaches from the air and plays it safe. You can see the inherent flaw here. I also forgot to mention Metaknight can use Dairs to bounce anyone who fails to tech right off the side along the slope. Not to mention that if they tech Meta Knight can punish a forward tech with a quick bair to set the situation up all over again (if they tech in place or backwards they wll either continue to eat Dairs or be pushed right off the side). I personally don't fnd Yoshi's Island Pipes to be bad for Meta because of these things unless he's fighting Yoshi.

It's not like Big Blue at all. On Big Blue you can be knocked to the track and die, whereas a player can't be MADE to approach from the right. If you die because of failing a tech, that's not the game's fault, and if you get the tech you can stop a dair.



Questions: In the MK frame data thread it was suggested that the total ending + landing lag of a Nado is always the same unless MK does the belly-flop landing. Is this true? Also, what are all the characters that are devestated by planking? What are all the characters that are devestated by planking on PS1?

 

[Daimonster]

Any solid advice about MK's best stages?

 

[brinboy789]

Any solid advice about MK's best stages?

rainbow cruise, luigis mansion, and battlefield are pretty good stages for MK

 

[Irow]

Delphino is a really good stage for MK, IMO.

You can attack from under the stage because MK has so many jumps, and the movement of the stage can help you in match-ups vs. some less mobile chracters.

I actually really like Yoshi's.

 

[Staco]

yeah, I like yoshis, too, for the neutral ones

 

[pixelbind]

how to approach a kirby that
spams:
1.up+b alot (my biggest prob)
2.dash attacks
3.f smash

4.and what to do when kirby is running at you since he can dash attack or grab you

my current statedgy is attacking kirby constantly so he doesnt approach me and doesnt have time to either

~thanks in advance