Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[SuperKirbyFan]

Wow, this kinda blows. I wanted to make Meta Knight be my main character from the very first day he was announced to be in Brawl at E3 2006, and he still is to this day. It wasn''t even because he was good or anything, it was simply because he was my favorite Kirby character (Kirby is my favorite game series), and for years beforehand I was wishing he'd be in the eventual third Smash Bros. game. Figures he's the one character they'd ban. Also, for the URC, I have one question: Japan can deal with him, why can't you? Or are you guys just not as good as the Japanese and therefore have to resort to banning characters?

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I wonder if M2K will be attending Apex with all his salt.

Bro has salt mines for miles.

M2k will come. It's too much money he can't pass up

 

[Ripple]

Also, for the URC, I have one question: Japan can deal with him, why can't you? Or are you guys just not as good as the Japanese and therefore have to resort to banning characters?

why isn't japan as good as us you mean.

 

[Kink-Link5]

SuperKirbyFan, Metaknight is not banned from friendlies, money matches, non URC regulated tournaments, or casual play.

 

[Thino]

The metagame revolves around the changing use of particular options. By analyzing this through actual gameplay or by watching videos, one can break down the possible options the opponent has at his disposal. Nothing(very little) should be new when you fight a person. If you consider yourself a good player, you should have a good understanding and knowledge of what the person is going to do and how they will counter you based on your options and their knowledge that you also know what options they have.

Of course, at any time a person can have a novel idea and create new options, but this is typically rare and often these ideas start with much higher level players that then get passed on to the scrubs.

Competitive fighters are just matches of the mind between the two players.
Brawl is alot about safely restricting options because fewer options for my opponent makes it easier to predict what they will do.

I know he can pick 1-4, and I can predict which one he can do; or I know he can pick 1-2, and I can more easily predict what he can do. Planking abuses the limiting of options in a way that no one option can. By going into a match I know what my planking options are and his options to remove me from the ledge based on experience and knowledge of the current metagame.

I would say the planker has more options (by this I mean more SAFE options). Still, even the planker limits himself through planking.

It just so happens that in limiting both himself and the opponent into having fewer options, and doing so while on the ledge, puts him in a much favorable position.

While you might have near the same ammount of options, a single move option from the planker can typically cover a wide array of the other characters options. (one argument used in order to have MK banned since his options cover everything) It's rock paper scissors where I pick rock and rock beats both paper and scissors. When competitive fighters are supposed to be a game of the mind, planking essentially turns the game into the above mentioned rock paper scissors. Hope you play a character that can get someone off the ledge. Hell even Metaknight could not remove another Metaknight from the ledge.
Planking essentially removes and limits most of the thinking person has to do in order to win.

Then I'm just a person that isn't into forcing a game to have its metagame evolve

I'm more into players finding those options by themselves, and not doing anything to make the metagame evolve beside that

so yea I main Lucario, and if I ever played Brawl at tournament I'd be prolly attending tournaments with LGL rules , while not agreeing with them, but just because it's mainstream

I wonder if M2K will be attending Apex with all his salt.

Bro has salt mines for miles.

he stated himself in another post that he would attend only tournaments that are MK legal

since Apex 2012 is the last Unity MK legal one..

 

[Alien Vision]

Easy Answer: He's still a Boy Scout and he's doing that for a badge.

Or maybe.. It's two different jobs that have nothing to do with the person as a whole, eh?

 

[Brawlin]

SuperKirbyFan, its not that we can't deal with him, most people just don't want to.

 

[Overswarm]

Easy Answer: He's still a Boy Scout and he's doing that for a badge.

Negative, haters.

http://overswarm.imgur.com/bead_art

Sliq would love these things and he can't even lie about that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wow, this kinda blows. I wanted to make Meta Knight be my main character from the very first day he was announced to be in Brawl at E3 2006, and he still is to this day. It wasn''t even because he was good or anything, it was simply because he was my favorite Kirby character (Kirby is my favorite game series), and for years beforehand I was wishing he'd be in the eventual third Smash Bros. game. Figures he's the one character they'd ban. Also, for the URC, I have one question: Japan can deal with him, why can't you? Or are you guys just not as good as the Japanese and therefore have to resort to banning characters?

US =/= Japanese. Our metagame is different from theirs. They're not comparable for that reason alone.

The problem is that many people just main MK solely to win, and he's the easiest to win with. Likewise, banning it also brings diversity to the overall matches. We've had more than enough MK Dittoes. Since multiple characters are in the Top Tier, it's fair to assume the Top Tier set will be topping more often. Likewise, that's more than one character winning tournaments, so it's diverse by definition.

Mind you, it's very possible the entire Tier List could change and one character could only be topping. But we can only go off from current data, which suggests simply that diversity has a better chance of happening with MK gone. But anything can happen. Whether or not this'll have the best possible results is always questionable, and we won't deny that things could turn out worse in the end. But you can't find a new metagame without experimentation.

 

[TheSlothStyle]

I wonder if M2K will be attending Apex with all his salt.

Bro has salt mines for miles.

:D ROFL! That's too funny!

 

[SuperKirbyFan]

SuperKirbyFan, its not that we can't deal with him, most people just don't want to.

If that's true then this is worse than I thought. Who are the URC to decide that a large community of hundreds of people can't use him competetively, just because they didn't want to bother dealing with him?

 

[Ripple]

If that's true then this is worse than I thought. Who are the URC to decide that a large community of hundreds of people can't use him competetively, just because they didn't want to bother dealing with him?

they are the ones who run 20-30% of the country's tournaments.

that gives them a great deal of influence.

and who's to say they couldn't deal with him?

who are you to say that? do you have any proof they are biased because they lose to MK?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Because TO's care about attendance and without Metaknight, it has already been shown that more people have interest in attending.

If you have never attended a URC tournament this has absolutely positively ZERO effect on you.

At all.

Period.

Another period.

 

[TheSlothStyle]

If that's true then this is worse than I thought. Who are the URC to decide that a large community of hundreds of people can't use him competetively, just because they didn't want to bother dealing with him?

Well, they understand the game more than you and me combined. There's a start.

 

[DeLux]

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=125453

Please everyone vindicate me.
I'd also point out that there's an error in the blog saying that my claim was 70 out of the top 100 ranked SWF players voted for the ban.

My claim has been and will continue to be that roughly 70 percent of voters and 30 percents of voters were split ban and anti ban respectively. There was usually 20-35% non participation. I did checks at the top 10/25/50/75/100.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

why isn't japan as good as us you mean.

Brood took out two of our best players and he did it using our rule set. He got second at an international and he isn't even Japan's best player

 

[Ripple]

Brood took out two of our best players and he did it using our rule set. He got second at an international and he isn't even Japan's best player

I wasn't being serious. it was to show how dumb that claim was

 

[Communisthunter]

Occupy MK, MK is the 99%!

 

[SaveMeJebus]

If the next best character starts making as about as much money as MK was making, would they reverse the ban?

 

[Hippieslayer]

Brood took out two of our best players and he did it using our rule set. He got second at an international and he isn't even Japan's best player

Yeah and he's one player, the truth of matter is that no one knows exactly what would happen if the japanese played the americans for an extended period of time where both sides would have a chance at getting to know the others playstyle. Therefore arguments that go japanese players blablabla are allways fail.

Furthermore, they are also fail because they don't make any difference whatsoever to the current situtation, the US rules should be based on the US metagame for natural reasons.

Getting pretty tired of reading salty missdirected rants from bitter people who focus on nothing but irrelevant **** such as: the people who banned metaknight, other metagames, or abstract pinciples based on arbitrary values that dont give a **** about whether anyones gonna want to play the game or not.

 

[Ripple]

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=125453

Please everyone vindicate me.
I'd also point out that there's an error in the blog saying that my claim was 70 out of the top 100 ranked SWF players voted for the ban.

My claim has been and will continue to be that roughly 70 percent of voters and 30 percents of voters were split ban and anti ban respectively. There was usually 20-35% non participation. I did checks at the top 10/25/50/75/100.

hilarious that 6/8 that voted against the ban main MK

 

[link2702]

If the next best character starts making as about as much money as MK was making, would they reverse the ban?

if that character truly started to dominate and take like 8 out of the top ten spots of every tournament, no one found any real counterpicks against em stage wise or character wise, and they were taking in more money the entire cast combined, probably.

but guess what? one of those things has already shot down that possibility; everyone else has a counter, whether its a stage, or another character, that alone will pretty much keep any other character from ****** the whole scene like metaknight has.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

hilarious that 6/8 that voted against the ban main MK

Well, most of the Anti-ban doesn't main MK

 

[Kink-Link5]

If I mained Metaknight I would still be for his ban, by the by.

I wonder if this applies for any top MK mains?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

if that character truly started to dominate and take like 8 out of the top ten spots of every tournament, no one found any real counterpicks against em stage wise or character wise, and they were taking in more money the entire cast combined, probably.

but guess what? one of those things has already shot down that possibility; everyone else has a counter, whether its a stage, or another character, that alone will pretty much keep any other character from ****** the whole scene like metaknight has.

MK rarely took 8 out of the 10 spots. The most I have ever seen was 7 out of 10. I don't think it would really matter if the character has any bad match ups as long as he is still taking about the same amount of money as MK has.

 

[John12346]

If the next best character starts making as about as much money as MK was making, would they reverse the ban?

The correct term would be "becomes as dominant as," but yes, if that did happen, I would likely do everything in my power to get the MK ban undone.

Not 100% sure, but probably.

 

[Ripple]

Well, most of the Anti-ban doesn't main MK

how do you know this?

 

[Circle_Breaker]

Did he mean most of the pro-ban doesn't main MK?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

hilarious that 6/8 that voted against the ban main MK

How do you know this?

EDIT: Yeah, I meant pro- ban

 

[Circle_Breaker]

well that's because MK is 1/35th of the cast :/

 

[John12346]

How do you know this?

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=125453

Gotta wait patiently for the rest of the votes to come in, tho...

 

[SaveMeJebus]

well that's because MK is 1/35th of the cast :/

True, but there were a lot of players that picked him up just for the ditto or because they felt it was necessary. You would think those players would be pro ban

 

[Ripple]

How do you know this?

EDIT: Yeah, I meant pro- ban

maybe because I know how to count to 8

dur hur hur

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

True, but there were a lot of players that picked him up just for the ditto or because they felt it was necessary. You would think those players would be pro ban

Depends the mentality of the player. Some considering winning = fun. It's no different in any other game. Mind you, if they're having fun playing solely Meta Knight, or want to have an indefinite win, that's fine. Maybe they just wanted to win, regardless of whether a character was broken or not.

And they want to keep winning, so they're anti-ban. Of course, this is ONE possible theory that could apply. I've seen it before related to card games and netdecking. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a similar reason.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

Players netdeck because they suck at making their own decks in card games though. Don't compare netdecking to choosing high tier characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Players netdeck because they suck at making their own decks in card games though. Don't compare netdecking to choosing high tier characters.

WRONG. Players netdeck because they're the winning decks. They know it works.

People have chosen MK for the same reason. Don't assume players are bad because they choose to practice a winning strategy. Also, those are high tier decks. It's no different whatsoever.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

there are definitely similar cases but it's not the same. in brawl, you can't create your own character out of a bunch of components. every character is already a "netdeck", some are just lower tier than others. picking MK is like netdecking only the decks with the very highest win percentage and performance.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

there are definitely similar cases but it's not the same. in brawl, you can't create your own character out of a bunch of components. every character is already a "netdeck", some are just lower tier than others. picking MK is like netdecking only the decks with the very highest win percentage and performance.

Then you understand the point of the analogy. In some ways. The winning strategy is why people netdeck. Meta Knight has proven to be a winning strategy. That's the entire point.

Also, tell that second sentence to the modders. (I seriously kid, but I get what you mean)

 

[Kink-Link5]

Except all top decks have weaknesses (Usually gimmicky ones).

Like how Quagsire can compete in Ubers with a useful Thunder and Water immunity that wrecks Kyogre Drizzlers

 

[Circle_Breaker]

it's funny how in the SF community, people play magic, but with SSB it's all pokemon.

in magic, throughout the last year, a deck called caw blade owned 90% of all tournaments. it was basically unbeatable in average circumstances and its losses mostly came from weak draws or exceptionally good draws for the opponent. it was basically bulletproof and anything that did sort of well against it had GLARING weaknesses against other popular decks. so they banned a couple of its best cards and it still did very well (but not quite as monstrously) until its key cards rotated out and now it's gone.

it was basically the MK (with similar statistics regarding player usage at some tournaments and I don't know about the cash it pulled in) of magic and it got banned.