Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Eddie G]

You forgot BPC bro.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How about we take the character that makes the most money from A tier and Compare it to the character that makes to most from B tier. What happens now?

Sorry for the double post

That Snake only makes less than double the amount. Close, but no cigar.

In order for him to be dominating, he'd have to make more than double. Because of that, he's not that close. I am not denying Snake as being powerful or anything. But he's also not the best of any single Tier either. Atleast not on that list.

And actually, I misread that as a 9. Okay, yes, he makes nearly triple the amount.

I will concede on one exact point: The money difference proves that Snake is the best against the B Tier. However, how does he compare to his own Tier then?

Let me put it THIS way. Does Snake dominate his own Tier?

 

[Conviction]

You forgot BPC bro.

Okay I'm just saying this is how I view the Metagame Discussion top 3 sticky thread right now.

Jebus vs. Pro Ban Thread
Doc King In: DDD rules the World Tier List Thread
Match Up Chart: Don't let the Doc or Jebus see this thread, BPC in this *****

/Real Talk (fixed)

 

[SaveMeJebus]

That Snake only makes less than double the amount. Close, but no cigar.

In order for him to be dominating, he'd have to make more than double. Because of that, he's not that close. I am not denying Snake as being powerful or anything. But he's also not the best of any single Tier either. Atleast not on that list.

And actually, I misread that as a 9. Okay, yes, he makes nearly triple the amount.

I will concede on one exact point: The money difference proves that Snake is the best against the B Tier. However, how does he compare to his own Tier then?

Let me put it THIS way. Does Snake dominate his own Tier?

From the looks of it, Snake does need his own tier (just for money though)

 

[Eddie G]

LMAO that's much better. Iblis for prez.

 

[Chuee]

You forgot BPC bro.

In the words of a great man.
You are all scrubs.

 

[Ripple]

snake makes less than the other 2 characters in his own tier combined.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Think about the tiers and not the characters. Again, not me, just the logic, Is it right to have 4 overcentralizing characters but not one?

S tier is S tier no matter how many characters are in that tier just like Uber is Uber in Pokemon. It doesn't matter how many characters there are. If they are overcentralizing, they should be banned.

From the looks of it, Snake does need his own tier

You cant even get 10 random people to agree that snake is still number 2 in the game. to say that he needs his own tier past diddy, is BEYOND ignorant.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

He makes 6. more than the next best character when most other characters make 1. or 2. more (than the next best character). If anything, Snake being in his own tier would make MK seem more broken since Snake doesn't make that much more than diddy

 

[Conviction]

Damn it now I actually have make a legit post.

Jebus,

Look.

The MK Banned Scene hasn't even had time to fully take off, it hasn't even offically started. You actually should, you know, base the money snake/diddy/any other character anti-ban claims will become MK-Dominant when the ban actually happens and has some time to actually make a metagame.

Wanted to put that out there.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Damn it now I actually have make a legit post.

Jebus,

Look.

The MK Banned Scene hasn't even had time to fully take off, it hasn't even offically started. You actually should, you know, base the money snake/diddy/any other character anti-ban claims will become MK-Dominant when the ban actually happens and has some time to actually make a metagame.

Wanted to put that out there.

I'm basing what I post off MK legal tournament results

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

From the looks of it, Snake does need his own tier (just for money though)

The Tier below him makes more than he does. His own Tier besides himself makes more money than he does.

The only thing I see is that Snake should be the top of the A Tier money-wise. he does not make more than double anyone in his own Tier, so that doesn't work.

Meta Knight makes more than double the money of any single character. Snake has to do that to every single character in the game to actually earn his own money tier. And it has to be consistent, not just one tournament.

This has not happened, therefore, Snake is not good enough to get his own Tier. He also has bad match-ups, so that won't ever happen either. He cannot win as consistently as MK because he has the inability to. Do you understand the league of difference?

At perfect play, Snake can lose. At perfect play, MK cannot lose. This is without any arbitary rules like the LGL. With the current LGL, MK STILL wins. Do you get it now? MK does not lose in perfect play. Everybody else does at times. That itself can constitute as broken alone.

I'm basing what I post off MK legal tournament results

Then let's give some time to see if the MK Banned results actually show anyone is as close as to MK is, alright? If that's the case, you may have something here. But as of right now, you have not proven that MK is not leagues above the cast.

 

[Conviction]

.......I know you are.

Two different metagames though. Neither us know if Snake will still have a hold like that with MK gone. Hence the reason I made that post. -___-

MK was beyond way more dominant than Snake was. Looking at Snake through a soon-to-be unoffical data will not help your case now. If you wish bring such a case as Snake can be over dominant as MK, wait to see data that can actually lead to such a conclusion.

Sorry for late response, was starting up my ramen.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

@Hyperfalcon, There is no such thing as perfect play so MK can lose. In perfect play (both characters) no player would ever move.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Then you actually have no case, Jebus. You cannot say that any character is better than another without theory.

Tier Lists are always subjective. Obviously.

The fact of the matter is, in Theory and in Practice, MK is the overall best character well beyond anyone else.

Nobody has the tools to beat him, and only through human error they can. Since we cannot say human error is accountable for, we can only base it upon perfect play. In perfect play, people would actually win. There's going to be a clear-cut winner. And it's going to be MK barring a course disruption. In fact, that's the only way something might happen. But in perfect play, that won't happen either.

Just face it: MK is the best, and nobody comes even remotely close in all areas. He has the best overall stats, the most money made, the most tournaments won, the most played, the best tools, and the best match-ups. He's leagues above the cast, and always has been.

It just took great players to prove he's the best without a doubt. Face it, nobody is better or goes overall even with him.

 

[Judo777]

Jebus dodged the main point of my post. Which of these 6 is not in top tier of melee? Anyone please answer.

Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Jiggs, Peach

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Jebus dodged the main point of my post. Which of these 6 is not in top tier of melee? Anyone please answer.

Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Jiggs, Peach

Peach and Marth

 

[Judo777]

Peach

10Peaches

There are 2 I knew peach was one

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Marth is the other one

 

[Judo777]

Marth is the other one

Alright, do Marth or Peach beat any of the top 4 in their respective MU's?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Alright, do Marth or Peach beat any of the top 4 in their respective MU's?

Beat? no. Go even with? yes

 

[Judo777]

Beat? no. Go even with? yes

According to the Marth MU chart, Marth beats several of the top tier.........

Also insert Falcon into the question too.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Both characters are supposed to take sets off each other in an even match up

Only if the skill and matchup knownledge of the players is the same.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Only if the skill and matchup knownledge of the players is the same.

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Also, what HyperFalcon said earlier about that very post.

Smooth Criminal

 

[SaveMeJebus]

According to the Marth MU chart, Marth beats several of the top tier.........

Also insert Falcon into the question too.

What match up chart are you talking about. Also, nothing happens until you get to Shiek vs. ICs. The only character who isn't top tier and beats Shiek

@Hippieslayer, that is what we are assuming

 

[Espy Rose]

The last 10 pages were torture.

I hear yah. Some people are just so over the top biased they may as well not participate in discussion.

The best part is that you're trying to say that I made an argument in the first place.
loooool.

I'm sorry we can't all post under a guise of constantly remaining on the fence, Cassio. Some of us like to actually take a solid stance.

You act as if these merry-go-round discussions on these public threads ever got anyone anywhere on anything anyway. /any

 

[Judo777]

What match up chart are you talking about. Also, nothing happens until you get to Shiek vs. ICs. The only character who isn't top tier and beats Shiek

@Hippieslayer, that could be said about every even match up

I just went to one on the Marth boards. Also what tier is IC's? because if they aren't S tier (or even worse not A tier) then your compariason is wrong. If top tier has a disadvantaged MU in a tier below it (or worse 2 tiers below it) then it is not even remotely comparable to MK, who not only arguably but more than likely has no EVEN MU's period.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I just went to one on the Marth boards. Also what tier is IC's? because if they aren't S tier (or even worse not A tier) then your compariason is wrong. If top tier has a disadvantaged MU in a tier below it (or worse 2 tiers below it) then it is not even remotely comparable to MK, who not only arguably but more than likely has no EVEN MU's period.

Fox and Falco have no bad MUs. Also, that's not true. A character that destoys 95% of the cast and loses to the other 5% should still be banned. Just because you have a bad MU doesn't mean you aren't broken

 

[Judo777]

Fox and Falco have no bad MUs. Also, that's not true. A character that destoys 95% of the cast and loses to the other 5% should still be banned.

No they shouldn't necessarily. If they have one bad MU they deserve to be legal more than MK does. Also Fox and Falco don't matter, they are not in a tier of their own. So the game does not over-centralize around 4 characters like you said because at least 1 of them has a bad MU in B tier (I assume IC's is B tier).

Also I KNOW that top tier has more bad MU's than that especially when Marth isn't in it.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

What match up chart are you talking about. Also, nothing happens until you get to Shiek vs. ICs. The only character who isn't top tier and beats Shiek

Ummmm.

That's debatable. Extremely.

Smooth Criminal

 

[SaveMeJebus]

No they shouldn't necessarily. If they have one bad MU they deserve to be legal more than MK does. Also Fox and Falco don't matter, they are not in a tier of their own. So the game does not over-centralize around 4 characters like you said because at least 1 of them has a bad MU in B tier (I assume IC's is B tier).

Also I KNOW that top tier has more bad MU's than that especially when Marth isn't in it.

Then you and I have different ideas of what should be banned. Also, Fox is the ICs of Brawl (if you get rid of Brinstar and RC) because MK doesn't have MUs as good as Shiek does. Shiek has better MUs and one bad MU (below top tier). MK has closer MUs, some even MUs, but no bad MUs

 

[Cassio]

The best part is that you're trying to say that I made an argument in the first place.
loooool.

Welp, that post doesnt really make any sense aside from an attempt to instigate. But before this escalates I offer a sign of peace.
[collapse="really huge peace offering image"]

[/collapse]

 

[Espy Rose]

I'd rather us argue about them.
Seems like something you enjoy doing endlessly.

 

[Judo777]

Then you and I have different ideas of what should be banned. Also, Fox is the ICs of Brawl (if you get rid of Brinstar and RC) because MK doesn't have MUs as good as Shiek does. Shiek has better MUs and one bad MU (below top tier). MK has closer MUs, some even MUs, but no bad MUs

Dude you kill me. You constantly use information you are currently arguing over for evidence in other points. MK does NOT have even MU's (or at least its very debateable, so much so that you are constantly debating it [although no one that plays those characters seems to think so]). Sheik has one bad MU in B tier!!!!!! That's a pretty big deal, that Like MK getting countered by D3. Having **** MU's with unimportant characters is not better than not having Evens or disadvantaged ones with characters that do matter.

 

[ElDominio]

Why does Judo talk to himself constantly and refer to a "SaveMeJebus" in his posts???

 

[Judo777]

Why does Judo talk to himself constantly and refer to a "SaveMeJebus" in his posts???

Lol I am the ignored list whisperer!

 

[SaveMeJebus]

she does better against Marth, Falco and Samus than Fox and better against Marth, Peach and Jiggs than Falco and that's just in the upper tiers.

 

[Judo777]

she does better against Marth, Falco and Samus than Fox and better against Marth, Peach and Jiggs than Falco and that's just in the upper tiers.

So the third best character has the best MU's? Cool dude sounds like some decent diversity and viability in the higher tiers, wish we could say the same for brawl.

 

[C.J.]

So the third best character has the best MU's? Cool dude sounds like some decent diversity and viability in the higher tiers, wish we could say the same for brawl.

Oh wait, now with MK gone we can!

 

[SaveMeJebus]

So the third best character has the best MU's? Cool dude sounds like some decent diversity and viability in the higher tiers, wish we could say the same for brawl.

What about Fox? No bad MUs.