Melee Match-Up Chart (NTSC) [Update 008 - 09.09.28]

[unknown522]

Colbol and Chopz have been playing for years. They both live in Florida. If there was ever a Fox I'd expect to beat a Southern Falco it'd be Colbol; he has the experience with them. Jman rarely plays south, btw.

Mostly its just Shiz ****** the whole region, but they go back and forth every now and then.



Agreed.



lololol


This Pichu Marth discussion is funny. The things Marth can do to Pichu out of grabs are even funnier. KK has gone over this like 3 times already. Marth + disjointed hitbox + stupid grab + stupid combos off of stupid grab = no win for Pichu.

I'm also relatively sure Marth can just shield grab Pichu if he nairs his shield and lands in front of him. If not, then WD back and fsmash...or just jump back and fair when Pichu approaches. Honestly, what is Pichu going to do...use his amazing range, combo game and priority to land solid hits that lead to nothing?

I just think you need to understand that when it comes to Marth/Jiggs, there is no way in hell Pichu has an easier time against a sword and death combos.

good posts.

You also can't forget about the awesome d-air out of shield, which pichu can't punish.

Low aerial on shield + dash away or behind > shield grab with most characters.

Just in case people don't know.

This.

Just a question; what would you guys say Falco vs Peach would be on Yoshi's Story? 50-50? Falco's upsmash and uair can actually kill there, not to mention Peach generally dies at much lower percents due to the smaller blastzones.

Falco wins vs most floaty characters there. He gets them off the stage quick and it's hard to sweetspot for some characters, which results to a spike (unless you're positioned to tech it). Falco also can kill characters off the top easily and pretty well off the side with smashes. He can also hide under platforms with slopes, making it harder for people to approach because of u-tilt and lasers. The platforms are also low, so falco can combo pretty well there.

I'd say Falco has advantage on that stage.

I've seen many times that Falco is able to do double shine Star Kos at Low % on Peach easily. Also I'm gonna say that Falco has much better platform game than Peach and pulls out his moves much faster causing him to be able to do extremely fast downairs or whatever moves you want extremely quickly and also Falco has more priority than Peach I think. On that stage, there's just no time to pull out turnips and try to play a good defensive game, Falco is definitely gonna out pressure Peach. Also I don't think Peach is able to get Low % KO on Falco either, Falco has just many early KO options.

As an example for Falco's speed strictly, Shiz vs M2k at RoM 1 on Yoshis.. like holy **** he's fast hahah =P

Anyways for me in general I think Yoshis is a great stage for Falco.

I agree

 

[JPOBS]

yea, the only thing i'd like to add that wasnt directly mentioned by unknown or kage regarding falco vs anyone on yoshi's

the blastzones are ******** enough that they dont hinder falco's recovery at all. on any other stage, hitting falco the distance equivalent to yoshi's blastzones results in him likely dieing by virtue of suck recovery anyway. yoshi's on the other hand limits recoveries by killing other chars at lower percent than otherwise necessary.

 

[1048576]

Looks like you don't know about spacing.. Marth can outspace Pichu completely and just that causes the whole matchup 80-20 + Pichus horrible shield. loll. Pichu has no answer to anything whatever Marth does.

Um, Marth can outspace everybody. Pichu gets outspaced by everybody. That doesn't mean nobody can do anything against Marth and everybody walks all over Pichu.

Pichu's nair is going to get inside Marth every time, especially if he gets a running start.

Pichu's shield is huge compared to his body. Maybe you shouldn't talk about characters you are unfamiliar with?

Imagnie this scenario. I'm inside your sword range as Pichu. Oh noes. You go for a fair just as I wavedash back. Pretty reasonable thing to occur. I out predicted you once. It happens. Now I get a free nair, which will give me either another nair or a d-smash, depending on percent/DI, and a possible edgeguard opportunity, which is not too hard for Pichu to do against Marth offstage.

Unknown... are you a troll or just ********? You realize your posts aren't going to convince anybody of anything, so why bother posting them?

 

[JBM falcon08]

marths aren't going to nair. they will fair.

why are you so worried about a horrible char that no one even bothers to play at tourneys?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Um, Marth can outspace everybody. Pichu gets outspaced by everybody. That doesn't mean nobody can do anything against Marth and everybody walks all over Pichu.

nobody said that

Pichu's nair is going to get inside Marth every time, especially if he gets a running start.

major false

Pichu's shield is huge compared to his body. Maybe you shouldn't talk about characters you are unfamiliar with?

his shield is average. maybe i should just flame you for saying stuff

Imagnie this scenario. I'm inside your sword range as Pichu. Oh noes. You go for a fair just as I wavedash back. Pretty reasonable thing to occur. I out predicted you once. It happens. Now I get a free nair, which will give me either another nair or a d-smash, depending on percent/DI, and a possible edgeguard opportunity, which is not too hard for Pichu to do against Marth offstage.

you realize marth gets 2 swings per sh right? pichu doesnt move fast enough to move back out of the first one and then back in before marth can cover himself.

Unknown... are you a troll or just ********? You realize your posts aren't going to convince anybody of anything, so why bother posting them?

i think this was supposed to be a self note and you got the names mixed up.

 

[NES n00b]

Since pichu is being mentioned, I would like to say he beats Falcon 70-30 almost as hard as Falco.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Um, Marth can outspace everybody. Pichu gets outspaced by everybody. That doesn't mean nobody can do anything against Marth and everybody walks all over Pichu.

Pichu's nair is going to get inside Marth every time, especially if he gets a running start.

Pichu's shield is huge compared to his body. Maybe you shouldn't talk about characters you are unfamiliar with?

Imagnie this scenario. I'm inside your sword range as Pichu. Oh noes. You go for a fair just as I wavedash back. Pretty reasonable thing to occur. I out predicted you once. It happens. Now I get a free nair, which will give me either another nair or a d-smash, depending on percent/DI, and a possible edgeguard opportunity, which is not too hard for Pichu to do against Marth offstage.

Unknown... are you a troll or just ********? You realize your posts aren't going to convince anybody of anything, so why bother posting them?

Your pretty quick to walk all over Kage and Unknown when both are pretty knowledgeable people. Insulting them gets you no where - unknown's point is that it isn't worth the time to make a post on why Marth > Pichu because Pichu's flaws are so inherent and obvious that it would be a waste of time. Yes, few people know the full potential of Pichu, because it is SO low that no one cares. Yes, Pichu has options, that doesn't make him a decent character or alright against Marth. Marth has so many more options, more range, better combo's, better finishers, it really isn't comparable.

Your scenario is pretty flawed. You start off in my sword range. Alright? Why would a marth attempt a fair on your shield when your close? He would probably grab or WD back or SPACE a fair. He could do any tilt after the fair to beat your nair or simply shield. He would not simply jump and do a single fair and land in your face and sit there.

Or your quick enough and get inside and get the nair --> whatever. It doesn't matter or change the matchup. You are trying to say the Pichu - Marth matchup isn't completely ****. C. Falcon is faster and better than pichu in nearly every way, he can combo Marth 0-death off of one hit, and has a **** nair. If he hit's his nair it could easily be death. Pichu is horrible compared to C. Falc obviously, and out of his nair probably will NOT be able to lead into a death combo unless a bit higher percents. Nair --> nair--> D-smash from Pichu even if he hits it isn't exactly a huge combo.

I do know little about the matchup. The point is though, every character has combo's, options, and things they can do - but other characters have better moves and combo's and are therefore better. Obviously.

 

[Divinokage]

Um, Marth can outspace everybody. Pichu gets outspaced by everybody. That doesn't mean nobody can do anything against Marth and everybody walks all over Pichu.

Pichu's nair is going to get inside Marth every time, especially if he gets a running start.

Pichu's shield is huge compared to his body. Maybe you shouldn't talk about characters you are unfamiliar with?

Imagnie this scenario. I'm inside your sword range as Pichu. Oh noes. You go for a fair just as I wavedash back. Pretty reasonable thing to occur. I out predicted you once. It happens. Now I get a free nair, which will give me either another nair or a d-smash, depending on percent/DI, and a possible edgeguard opportunity, which is not too hard for Pichu to do against Marth offstage.

Unknown... are you a troll or just ********? You realize your posts aren't going to convince anybody of anything, so why bother posting them?

Are you the one ******** here? Unknown is in charge of this thread and takes notes of whatever people say to update the chart listed on the OP. I think your posts won't convince anyone because

1. You are not a great player
2. You don't bring any proof as to why Pichu can win vs Marth. You just say oh ya I get a free Nair and then what? That's only a few % dmg. Pichu is gonna get techchased like a mother****er.
3. Who the hell cares it's Pichu.
4. Marth's Nair is horrible and should not be used as a spacing tool only comboing or getting onto the stage from the edge one way.
5. How will Pichu edgeguard Marth, tell me that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4esPyyrxS7Q

This a Pichu/Ganon matchup in which the Pichu gets 4 stock that was me 2 years ago when I was noob too lol.. Marth and Ganon have relatively the same amount of range and this match is a decent show of why Pichu can't win **** and your theories are wrong. Marth is even faster than Ganon there's no way in hell Pichu's gonna get inside Marth. Pichu's shield is horrible by the way, very easy character to shield stab.. and believe me I know my shield stabbing levels very well thank you very much.

Why in the hell would I approach Fair with Marth? Marth is a defensive character in which he uses the tip of his sword at all times.. by doing this all his moves are very hard to punish.

 

[unknown522]

thank you kage!

Um, Marth can outspace everybody. Pichu gets outspaced by everybody. That doesn't mean nobody can do anything against Marth and everybody walks all over Pichu.

Pichu's nair is going to get inside Marth every time, especially if he gets a running start.

Pichu's shield is huge compared to his body. Maybe you shouldn't talk about characters you are unfamiliar with?

Imagnie this scenario. I'm inside your sword range as Pichu. Oh noes. You go for a fair just as I wavedash back. Pretty reasonable thing to occur. I out predicted you once. It happens. Now I get a free nair, which will give me either another nair or a d-smash, depending on percent/DI, and a possible edgeguard opportunity, which is not too hard for Pichu to do against Marth offstage.

Unknown... are you a troll or just ********? You realize your posts aren't going to convince anybody of anything, so why bother posting them?

idiot

 

[Dark Hart]

Since pichu is being mentioned, I would like to say he beats Falcon 70-30 almost as hard as Falco.

This guy got 5th at a 512 man tourney, he knows what's up.

 

[Divinokage]

This guy got 5th at a 512 man tourney, he knows what's up.

I don't understand this?

 

[N64]

I'm not sure if "it's pichu, who cares" is a valid argument really. This matchup discussion was, i thought, intended to provide a relatively accurate numerical representation of each matchup, regardless of how important it is. Yeah, we kinda want the important ones to be more widely agreed upon, but I'd still like a chart where marth v pichu and every other matchup is relatively accurately represented.

Having said that, marth ***** pichu. Like ungodly death noise ****. Pichu can't get in, as was said in many of the previous posts, and pichu's punish game on marth is much much worse than vice versa. Almost everything about pichu screws him in this matchup. His attacks have no range. Marth's attacks are prominantly disjointed and have large range. Heck, his grab outspaces like everything pichu has. Pichu is light and thus dies quickly. Pichu's techroll is attrocious.

I think this is the most onesided matchup in the game. This or maybe marth v kirby. It's bad.

 

[adumbrodeus]

4. Marth's Nair is horrible and should not be used as a spacing tool only comboing or getting onto the stage from the edge one way.

Why is it horrible? Granted, it's not as good a spacing tool, but it's a good approach, gets the same lag as fair when l-canceled, and when auto-canceled, you get better frame advantage on shield making it a good approach.

Yes, Fair's better, but Nair's still a great move.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Um, Marth can outspace everybody. Pichu gets outspaced by everybody.

I agree. This is a big part on why Pichu is such a joke.

That doesn't mean nobody can do anything against Marth and everybody walks all over Pichu.

We're saying Pichu sucks against Marth. I haven't said anything about other characters. Despite Marth's onstage proficiency and strong edgeguarding, he actually has a lot of flaws including being comparatively laggy to the other top tiers (distinct lack of Shine and broken physics or being Sheik). He also sometimes struggles with killing people outright, and can be projectile camped to a degree.

However, because of Pichu's lack of range and dying early, two of his biggest flaws are mitigated purely by Pichu's horrible character design. His issue of being projectile camped is laughable in this one too, because Pichu takes more damage than Marth in the long term if Marth deals with the projectile probably.

Pichu's nair is going to get inside Marth every time, especially if he gets a running start.

Marth's dash speed is faster than Pichu, and Pichu's aerial momentum, while good, does not teleport him past Marth's sword, arms, shield, and into his face.

Imagnie this scenario. I'm inside your sword range as Pichu. Oh noes. You go for a fair just as I wavedash back. Pretty reasonable thing to occur. I out predicted you once. It happens. Now I get a free nair, which will give me either another nair or a d-smash, depending on percent/DI, and a possible edgeguard opportunity, which is not too hard for Pichu to do against Marth offstage.

If you got inside my sword range, I'd likely dash back.

Marth's crouch cancel counters this Nair --> Nair / D-smash crap.

If I was somehow stuck shielding, I'd likely wait for you to do something and deal with it accordingly. If I was pressured and HAD to do something because of very situational circumstances, I would likely SH back, Fair at the peak of my jump, FF, and then dash away. I very strongly doubt you'd punish that, especially with a commitment like WD back.

I'd also question how you got into my sword range so easily. Am I, in this case construction, ******** by any chance? Crippled? Significantly worse than you?

 

[NES n00b]

I don't understand this?

Keep up with big tourneys then.

 

[Divinokage]

Keep up with big tourneys then.

But there were no tournaments bigger than Genesis!

I'm not sure if "it's pichu, who cares" is a valid argument really. This matchup discussion was, i thought, intended to provide a relatively accurate numerical representation of each matchup, regardless of how important it is. Yeah, we kinda want the important ones to be more widely agreed upon, but I'd still like a chart where marth v pichu and every other matchup is relatively accurately represented.

Having said that, marth ***** pichu. Like ungodly death noise ****. Pichu can't get in, as was said in many of the previous posts, and pichu's punish game on marth is much much worse than vice versa. Almost everything about pichu screws him in this matchup. His attacks have no range. Marth's attacks are prominantly disjointed and have large range. Heck, his grab outspaces like everything pichu has. Pichu is light and thus dies quickly. Pichu's techroll is attrocious.

I think this is the most onesided matchup in the game. This or maybe marth v kirby. It's bad.

My statement about "it's Pichu who cares" is just me being slightly emotional because I get pissed when some people attempt to make incorrect theories by their lack of experience. Sure it's not their fault, but noobs should stfu and continue to learn from the higher players until their level is sufficient to create actual techniques maybe we haven't learned yet. If they have any questions, I'll help of course. I have my own code of honor that if something is not my liking or does not follow warriorness then I'll get pissed hahaha. By all means if you want to look at the matchup do it, but it's quite clear Marth ***** Pichu no matter what.

Why is it horrible? Granted, it's not as good a spacing tool, but it's a good approach, gets the same lag as fair when l-canceled, and when auto-canceled, you get better frame advantage on shield making it a good approach.

Yes, Fair's better, but Nair's still a great move.

I didn't mean it was horrible in general, slight misunderstanding. Ya I need to complete some of my sentence because I tend to be fragmented with whatever I try to say, so sometimes I'm not clear sorry for that. I have many ideas that I try to put together but it ends up not complete almost all the time haha but I know what I mean.

Marth's Nair from my matchup experience Ganon/Marth is horrible.. if a Marth tries to approach Nair on me, he's gonna get punished hard because Nair puts Marth vulnerable by attacks from above. Like hit his head with Fist/backair or downair.. works all the time. I don't know well Marth's nair for me seems weak. =P

The way we play against Marth in EC Canada.. Nair NEVER ever works.

 

[1048576]

nobody said that

major false


his shield is average. maybe i should just flame you for saying stuff



you realize marth gets 2 swings per sh right? pichu doesnt move fast enough to move back out of the first one and then back in before marth can cover himself.



i think this was supposed to be a self note and you got the names mixed up.

Kage said that the matchup was **** because marth has a spacing adavantage. I was pointing out the conclusion of that logic.

His shield is great compared to his size.

You know it's entirely possible to whiff a swing and touch the ground.

I think you don't know how to properly form an argument, so you resort to being a 5th grader.

Edit: KirbyKaze, you misunderstand. By "inside your sword range" I mean you can hit me, but I can't hit you with my ground atks. In other words, I spaced poorly/ you spaced well.

Kage: I know you are good at this game. That doesn't make you an authority on the matchup, especially if you don't play with/against the characters being discussed.

One more thing: I'm still not seeing Pichu dying earlier against Marth than, say, Jiggs. Once you're past the percent of his fair comboing into tips and dairs, which happens in a very tight window, he's not dying except for random smahes or a tipped utilt.

To clarify since I'm getting a ton of flames for no reason (I think we can discuss the matchup in a more calm manner): I think the matchup is 80-20 to 75-25, not like even or tourney viable or anything.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey I main pichu for the most part pichu can't do what you just said, maybe fox if your good. but pichu can't go that far in that short of time and if so pichu can't always go nair nair nair sometimes and it is easier to do vs marth but still, pichu can chain throw him a little get maybe 30% and edge gaurd marth, but he can't get in anyway easily and we aren't counting mindgames and the up-B thing is for maybe twice a match.

Pichu has a really good sheild, it's true it's the same size as the ice climbers

but one thing that is going for pichu is he can't be Easily edgegaurded by anymeans(DON'T ARGUE IT), and down-throw regrab at edge thing doesn't work well but because of his short tech( added data pichu has the best neutral tech in the game). pichu shouldn't easily win even if you can predict them half of the time. maybe 10 or 15 90 or 85 unless we deside to count mindgames, really if we count mindgames then raise pichu up higher. But I highly disargee with the pichu vs fox/falco match-up

 

[NES n00b]

But there were no tournaments bigger than Genesis!

If you were on Tipped Off 5 live stream, you would heard from DJ Nintendo that there were 512 people there. Get *****.

 

[Divinokage]

If you were on Tipped Off 5 live stream, you would heard from DJ Nintendo that there were 512 people there. Get *****.

Vids or it didnt happen!!

Kage said that the matchup was **** because marth has a spacing adavantage. I was pointing out the conclusion of that logic.

His shield is great compared to his size.

You know it's entirely possible to whiff a swing and touch the ground.

I think you don't know how to properly form an argument, so you resort to being a 5th grader.

Edit: KirbyKaze, you misunderstand. By "inside your sword range" I mean you can hit me, but I can't hit you with my ground atks. In other words, I spaced poorly/ you spaced well.

Kage: I know you are good at this game. That doesn't make you an authority on the matchup, especially if you don't play with/against the characters being discussed.

One more thing: I'm still not seeing Pichu dying earlier against Marth than, say, Jiggs. Once you're past the percent of his fair comboing into tips and dairs, which happens in a very tight window, he's not dying except for random smahes or a tipped utilt.

To clarify since I'm getting a ton of flames for no reason (I think we can discuss the matchup in a more calm manner): I think the matchup is 80-20 to 75-25, not like even or tourney viable or anything.

Ya well I played every matchup countless of times so I at least know what I'm talking about. And where do you get this matchup authority thing? I'm just talking from my own experience in which I believe is the truth. So if my truth is wrong then I don't give a **** because I'm happy =P.

Pichu's shield is definitely bigger than him.. but the shield itself is hella small, just 1 or 2 hits on that shield then hes gonna get easily shield stabbed after. And so what if Marth needs to do a bit more damage, Pichu still cannot out damage Marth. Marth can kill Pichu from a throw to downair easily.. then edgehog and continue if Pichu tries to come back.. I don't think you understand how Marth kills his opponents.. what's this spaced Utilt or RANDOM smashes? Pretty sure those forward smash that SKILLED marth lands are not random. What kind of Marths do you play against? lol.

 

[1048576]

You're saying Pichu can't nair Marth if he whiffs a fair? I do it all the time. I'm assuming you don't have frame data handy. I don't.

I don't think Pichu's grabbing Marth. Only fair gets it for you and that's really risky unless you're at like 70% or above.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I geuss I will check, get me a...

yeah he has a 7 frame l-cancel like a thought that's a really fast l-cancel fastest is 6 and that only is for pichu's nair. no they are slow and have low reaction time.

BUt me as a pichu player I look at the realist pros and cons of pichu I know them better than than most people but without mindgames or one player being lower than decent

 

[Deleted member]

how are you part of the SBR, honestly.

because im smarter than you.

marth nair to sidestep is a weird but decent approach.

 

[Dark Hart]

I don't understand this?

lol Kage, it's a TO5 joke started by DJN.

 

[Divinokage]

because im smarter than you.

marth nair to sidestep is a weird but decent approach.

Ya but your basic tactics usually fail =P

TO5 joke eh? Guess I missed it =)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You're saying Pichu can't nair Marth if he whiffs a fair? I do it all the time. I'm assuming you don't have frame data handy. I don't.

I don't think Pichu's grabbing Marth. Only fair gets it for you and that's really risky unless you're at like 70% or above.

any marth that is actually tournament level (aka not bad) will space and cover himself and you won't ever get in. retreating nair to ftilt. shdf to dtilt. empty short hops and fair if you approach, utilt cover. this is stuff that is hard for fox to weave around, good luck with pichu.

 

[Deleted member]

Ya but your basic tactics usually fail =P

TO5 joke eh? Guess I missed it =)

I just wanted to post to poke at x after dawn x because I hate him a lot because I can't infract someone for being stupid.

if you watch older videos, ken does random nair to sidesteps and it usually yields something good. Since the tactic is rarely used, it still has some novelty application and has some effective use.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You're saying Pichu can't nair Marth if he whiffs a fair? I do it all the time. I'm assuming you don't have frame data handy. I don't.

I do not need frame data to tell you that if I do a Fair to minimize the amount of time I am without a hitbox (ie. FF Fair at peak of jump), and then react accordingly to your approach (react, not predict fyi), it creates a very difficult brickwall for Pichu's SHFFL game (and game in general). It is very, very difficult for Pichu to punish it and get in. And he will likely die or take upwards of 40 damage for trying to do so very frequently, provided that the Marth moves back and keeps Pichu in a safe range while doing so.

Marth being faster than Pichu is a very useful trait here.

While Pichu may very well inevitably get in, I have pointed out that the low percent game for Pichu is hell, as his Nair does not knock over Marth for a long, long time, and the typical counter to this is to do a heavy move that knocks over or applies too much stun for CC to be effective (Ganon, Peach, etc), use a Shine (Fox, Falco), use Sheik, grab him (characters), or projectile him (characters). Because of Pichu's distinct lack of a move he can knock Marth over with until 60+, and his awful grab range, Pichu is often reliant on single hits when he does get in.

Edit: KirbyKaze, you misunderstand. By "inside your sword range" I mean you can hit me, but I can't hit you with my ground atks. In other words, I spaced poorly/ you spaced well.

To clarify since I'm getting a ton of flames for no reason (I think we can discuss the matchup in a more calm manner): I think the matchup is 80-20 to 75-25, not like even or tourney viable or anything.

If you're in my sword range, in front of me, on the ground, spaced in a manner that I am safe to swing at you, I'd probably D-tilt or grab. Or dash dance (or stand still) and wait for you to do something more easily punishable.

 

[Divinokage]

I just wanted to post to poke at x after dawn x because I hate him a lot because I can't infract someone for being stupid.

if you watch older videos, ken does random nair to sidesteps and it usually yields something good. Since the tactic is rarely used, it still has some novelty application and has some effective use.

Well I wanted to poke you too, but in a good way. =)

Novelty application? Does that mean you admire the older players more perhaps?

 

[Strong Badam]

he means that it has some use despite rarely being marths best option to approach

 

[unknown522]

I'm not sure if "it's pichu, who cares" is a valid argument really. This matchup discussion was, i thought, intended to provide a relatively accurate numerical representation of each matchup, regardless of how important it is. Yeah, we kinda want the important ones to be more widely agreed upon, but I'd still like a chart where marth v pichu and every other matchup is relatively accurately represented.

Yeah. With that said, we still took matches and what will happen into consideration with the low tier characters though we don't really care about them.

Well, for me, I took pichu / kirby / ness / yoshi into consideration at least. I am really good with them, though they are really **** characters.

Having said that, marth ***** pichu. Like ungodly death noise ****. Pichu can't get in, as was said in many of the previous posts, and pichu's punish game on marth is much much worse than vice versa. Almost everything about pichu screws him in this matchup. His attacks have no range. Marth's attacks are prominantly disjointed and have large range. Heck, his grab outspaces like everything pichu has. Pichu is light and thus dies quickly. Pichu's techroll is attrocious.

I think this is the most onesided matchup in the game. This or maybe marth v kirby. It's bad.

Yes, they are both horrible.

One cool trick though with kirby: v marth, you can FH d-air -> u-tilt -> move, because it hits marth with all the hits of the d-air and puts him in that ground tumble animation and also auto-cancels when you FH it. You can also link d-air -> f-smash on marth. If it fails because they shield, you can possibly cross up their shield.

Oh yeah, these work on peach / zelda / ganon as well, because they are tall enough.




Edit: A bit soon, but new update coming.

You're saying Pichu can't nair Marth if he whiffs a fair? I do it all the time. I'm assuming you don't have frame data handy. I don't.

I don't think Pichu's grabbing Marth. Only fair gets it for you and that's really risky unless you're at like 70% or above.

They're not gonna whiff, unless you roll or sidestep. Since you're talking about what you can do to noob players, then stop posting here. You're annoying.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Um, Marth can outspace everybody. Pichu gets outspaced by everybody. That doesn't mean nobody can do anything against Marth and everybody walks all over Pichu.

Pichu's nair is going to get inside Marth every time, especially if he gets a running start.

Pichu's shield is huge compared to his body. Maybe you shouldn't talk about characters you are unfamiliar with?

Imagnie this scenario. I'm inside your sword range as Pichu. Oh noes. You go for a fair just as I wavedash back. Pretty reasonable thing to occur. I out predicted you once. It happens. Now I get a free nair, which will give me either another nair or a d-smash, depending on percent/DI, and a possible edgeguard opportunity, which is not too hard for Pichu to do against Marth offstage.

Unknown... are you a troll or just ********? You realize your posts aren't going to convince anybody of anything, so why bother posting them?

You're a ****ing idiot. Read all the posts here (including Kage's and unknown's) and stop posting.

Also unknown actually knows what he's talking about and he's credible for being a good player, YOU AREN'T.

 

[Divinokage]

You're a ****ing idiot. Read all the posts here (including Kage's and unknown's) and stop posting.

Also unknown actually knows what he's talking about and he's credible for being a good player, YOU AREN'T.

That's a little obvious. But as a positive note.. did you ever see a successful Pichu main that placed even remotely well? lol.

 

[x After Dawn x]

That's a little obvious. But as a positive note.. did you ever see a successful Pichu main that placed even remotely well? lol.

lol...never. >_>

I'm really sick of bottom tier mains overestimating their characters though. Like they try and give credible arguments why, say, Pichu is 40-60 with Falco when they end up simply exaggerating unimportant facts in the matchup and ignoring not only who is the victor in the outcome of the match but also all of the important facts that make that other, non-Pichu player good in the matchup, as well as tournament records between a good Falco player like chops, zhu, shiz, etc. vs any Pichu player. I understand that perhaps some of the matchups on this chart are a little exaggerated, but they also tend to exaggerate their perspective as well.

Somehow (and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this), I'm assuming these "players" are essentially a bunch of people who practice playing against level 1 CPUs / friends who don't even compete in tournaments and they draw assumptions from their personal experiences as if it affects the entire competitive scene as a whole. >_> Most of them can't even admit the faults and weaknesses in their own characters, which is one of the first steps in becoming a good player.

But whatever, I say we ignore the troll (either he's just ignorant or he's a troll) and try to advance in this matchup chart instead of trying to point out why Pichu isn't 80-20 with Marth (seriously, wtf?).

 

[4% APR]

I think you're right about the people giving their characters too much credit being people who dont play in tournies often, because the good low tier mains generally have no problem telling you how bad their character's match ups are

 

[x After Dawn x]

I just wanted to post to poke at x after dawn x because I hate him a lot because I can't infract someone for being stupid.

Right back at you, son. I usually don't post something stupid unless I'm trolling or I'm tired and I just got trolled and I rage at it (which used to happen a lot).

 

[1048576]

All the posts I've read about Marth using ftilits, dtilts, and grabs to cover himself; Pichu has a specific counter to each of those situations.

After Dawn... is it your time of the month or something? I really don't see what I'm doing wrong by posting valid arguments here. It's not like I'm saying Pichu's downB has no lag and his projectile game is amazing. I'm pointing out facts and giving examples as to how they could be used beneficially in the matchup. You're the troll for essentially covering your ears and going "nuh-uh." Maybe you're not on your period; you're just five-years-old.

You assume I'm some random scrub. I've played against RockCrock and Raistlin with my Pichu. Hell, I beat a guy who beat RockCrock in a tournament with my Pichu. He was playing Sheik. I don't see how all of that is relevant though. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.

Also, I tend to live a long time for two stocks of the match against Marth, for reasons I've explained several times that nobody has come up with a rebuttal to. Coupling that with Pichu's offstage edgeguard game, you really don't have to land that many more hits to win, and that's assuming Marth's little fury swipes actually lead to combos.

It's hard to get in, I agree, but not 85-15 hard.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I beat a guy who beat Rockcrock...

What do we call this logic, children?

 

[1048576]

Well, have you ever beaten someone who's beaten an elite player in a tournament environment?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey man you may want to stop unless you have some hardcore videos to show us. Dude your digging a hole pichu isn't God, I play as pichu I think I may be one of the few people who understand both his pros and cons. pichu is fast and strong but the range murders him and pichu is behind many years in the metagame. There is no point saying pichu has a fair amount of stuff vs marth when you haven't said anything and pichu vs sheik isn't marth vs pichu.

I,m not trying to be a douche but you need some proof saying marth's fair has lag and pichu can nair for isn't going get any support. I support pichu haveing a evenish fight but you can't do on like this, your going to hurt our cause, heck just **** them and laught then they we most likely believe you.