Melee Match-Up Chart (NTSC) [Update 008 - 09.09.28]

[-ACE-]

I see a MM on the horizon.

 

[john!]

Mango with post 2000? lol

Peach is a bad matchup for Falco and Armada has a lot more Falco practice than Puff practice. You can't judge Mango's chars based on that set, much less the chars in general.

Right now Puff is exactly where she should be, 5th on the list.

Also I fully support this MM.

 

[strawhats]

Obviously people want the puff... Puff may be boring to watch, but people like seeing her win, again, realize that it's sort of his trump card, he used it against Armada first match and lost, so that would generally mean he'd revert to his less gimmicky character, the one that he's better at. Falco.

QUE!? You realize mango's best character is his jiggz right. When he's in a ****ty situation who do you think he's going to , to pull out the win. He onlty uses her w/. the box tag and crown when he's serious as ****.

 

[Strong Badam]

Johns

No ****ing johns.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

QUE!? You realize mango's best character is his jiggz right. When he's in a ****ty situation who do you think he's going to , to pull out the win. He onlty uses her w/. the box tag and crown when he's serious as ****.

thats not true at all. his falco is definitely better than his puff. his puff is a huge mindgame, everyone is afraid of it.

 

[strawhats]

Really ? then why does he say if i lose w/. my falco in WFs then I'll go to GFs w/. mypuff. You would not hear Ken say if I lose w/. my fox, ill switch to marth when I really need it. He knows that his best character will give him the best chance to win, this is the same w/. mango who knows his winning ace his puff.

Your winning ace is usually your best and greatest weapon.


P.S. that must be some ridiculous mindgame that beats out every other mindgame known to smash bros. history.

 

[AXE 09]

why don't we all just ask mango what he thinks his best character is?

 

[JPOBS]

i find it pretty incredible that people still say that "jiggs is a bad character, but the people who use him are better than everyone else"

Its like, the 2 best players in the game right now both just HAPPEN to use jiggs. and Raistlin (or w/e) just stumbled into 9th place at genesis with puff, after not being on anyones radar.

but no, jiggs sucks, its just that the people who use her are leagues ahead of everyone. apperently.....

 

[unknown522]

Its like, the 2 best players in the game right now both just HAPPEN to use jiggs. and Raistlin (or w/e) just stumbled into 9th place at genesis with puff, after not being on anyones radar.

but no, jiggs sucks, its just that the people who use her are leagues ahead of everyone. apperently.....

KK was gonna post that.

 

[-ACE-]

Its like, the 2 best players in the game right now both just HAPPEN to use jiggs.

Hungry is straight **** but I dunno about 2nd best in the game, lol.

 

[john!]

why don't we all just ask mango what he thinks his best character is?

becaaause

hes gonna give an

ambiguous answer like

"both my characters raaape"

and not use proper sentence

structure

<3333

 

[MaNg0]

MY BEST CHARACTER IS PROBABLY


fox after 5 hours of warm up

ask m2k / jman


buttt other then that


I dunno my puff has like a **** factor 2 it and when she comes out

everyone gets scared and is like =O mangos puff

My falco is pretty legit tho.......

and puff is easier 2 play due 2 not needing tek skill

which is one of the reasons i switched 2 puff after match 1 in gf against armada


=D

i need 2 start warming up at tourneys....

2 bad i like talking 2 people =(

 

[john!]

Yeah lol. Sveet is right, Mango's Puff is a huge mindgame cuz people are scared of it.

 

[Strong Badam]

if mango performs the best with puff, no matter the reason, it's his best char. lolol

also <3 mango

 

[adumbrodeus]

1. i went puff on hbox because i didnt feel like dealing with his gayness with ne of my other characters with so much on the line

Fair enough, my point was that your main is falco, from the accounts I got from genesis your reasons were different.

2. if the crowd would have cheered against me i would have *****.. i love proving people wrong .. so it gets me more hype 2 win .. like every ec tourney ive won

I'm sorry, but this is just pure psychology here, it doesn't work.

When there's enough of a difference in skill, you can overcome the hype, but it does make a difference.

You may love it when you win in spite of hype to the opposite, but that doesn't mean in reality, it's not that much harder.

No ****ing johns.

Just shut up right there. I'm not talking about me, so it's not a john, it's analysis. "No johns" is not a ****ing cureall that you can use to just shut down reasonable analysis, BS, you gotta use actual... logic.

lrn2debate, if it's true, it's not a john, it's just ****ing reality.

 

[strawhats]

Hungry is straight **** but I dunno about 2nd best in the game, lol.

yeah...even mango this. lol

but seriously

love Juan's puff but I stilll think he's got a ways to go before I mention him in top 2.

M2k is still right there

 

[Blatt Blvd]

juan just beat m2k last week i thought?

 

[JBM falcon08]

1 win doesn't place someone as the best.

hungry has lost 2-3 sets to m2k in tournaments.

 

[choknater]

yeah but this is the first time he won

 

[Dorsey]

I see a MM on the horizon.

Also I fully support this MM.

And after this happens I want to see him falco ditto pp

 

[Blatt Blvd]

k

i remember when mango got top 10 at that one evo and everyone was like it wont happen again and then, like he won a big tourney, and then everyone was like "fluke" and then he won again and again and again

and again

edit: and sleepy just posted the TO5 bracket and juan beat him twice(m2k).

 

[otg]

k

i remember when mango got top 10 at that one evo and everyone was like it wont happen again and then, like he won a big tourney, and then everyone was like "fluke" and then he won again and again and again

and again

edit: and sleepy just posted the TO5 bracket and juan beat him twice(m2k).

This is what I hate about the smash community. One ****ing tournament happens and all of a sudden its like "OH ****, M2k sucks now! HBOX YOU'RE THE BEST". Jesus people, give it some freaking time before you can make any official statement on where m2k and hbox stand. In regards to how people received Mango, he ***** pound 3, people were impressed, but m2k was still considered best because of his record. Here we are a year and change later, with like 5 or 6 more national tournaments under our belt and we can officially conclude that Mango is the best.

Things come with time, not blanket statements the day freaking after.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

lol, the NY school system sucks.

learn to read and comprehend otg, or keep failing at life.

nothing in my posts state hbox being better than m2k, just that its not out the question

 

[otg]

Way to try and insult me rather then refuting my post.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

lol, i dont need to respond to your post, when its just a duplicate of 17 other people from previous pages.

nice try tho, but u fail again.

 

[Strong Badam]

lol, the NY school system sucks.

learn to read and comprehend otg, or keep failing at life.

go choke on a ****

am i doin' it right? instead of responding to your argument, i simply insulted you.

stop trolling this thread

 

[Blatt Blvd]

stop being a homo and i will

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

stop sucking a dildo every night before bed, and we can get back to the actual debating.

 

[Linguini]

don't mess with blatt, hes the king.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

lol its too easy.

someone else trolls, i tell them to stfu and everyone freaks?

exactly how the internet works.

a bunch of ******* who'd get their ***** whooped IRL.

hide behind yur comps.

 

[Dark Hart]

well, if we didn't live so far away from each other we might not be debating over smashboards. I know I'D RATHER talk about match-ups irl.

 

[x After Dawn x]

k back on topic...

Can somebody explain why Ganon vs Falcon is 35-65? Isn't it supposed to be 40-60?

 

[x After Dawn x]

Also, why is Falco vs Link 70-30? It's more like 65-35. When Falco has the momentum of the game, he can laser Link all day long and Link doesn't really have an answer to it, but as soon as Link gets a break, Link can set up his projectiles and approach Falco nicely. Falco can't pressure Link because Link can either shieldgrab (even from a distance), wd OOS to shieldgrab, or simply up B (which DESTROYS Falco because it's a semi-spike and it sends Falco really far off). IMO the matchup is closer to being 60-40 then it is 70-30, but I'm saying it should be 65-35.

 

[unknown522]

the last 4 lines are wrong. Link can't shield grab falco, unless he throws out random smashes. Up-B Oos is too slow to hit falco. Falco can hit him first whether it's with a laser, or with an actual attack. Link actually has no answer to falco's d-air -> shine on shield. Up-b is too slow and the shine will hit link first, or if he shines link's shield, then he can d-air / n-air / shine again / grab, before link can do anything out of shield.

Well, he might be able to n-air falco Oos if falco messes up.

For ganon, I was really conflicted on that one. Kage said that it was even and:

1) says he shouldn't have lost to hax, though he got 3-stocked on his own CP.

2) bases matchups on how well he does vs people (I put ganon v marth as even, because he hasn't lost to any marths in a while, other than PKM. Well, that and everyone seems to agree). But yeah, all the good ganons keep losing to falcons.

But yeah, ganon just is really slow and gets overwhelmed by falcon, then gets **** combo'd regardless of DI. Ganon can get some cheezy kills at low damage, but that's just cherrypicking off of mistakes. Falcon can legitimately get in on ganon and make him his *****. Edgeguarding is easy both ways.

Also, DD camping is broken with falcon and can match ganon's range with his n-air anyway.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

Can't Link just stand still to block lasers? Not saying that's a good option, but it's there, right?

 

[unknown522]

standing still is countered by aiming.

also, you're a sitting duck.

 

[Deleted member]

Why is Falcon vs Falco harder than Falcon vs Fox

just an honest question!

 

[unknown522]

because lasers / combos / actual priority wreck falcon

 

[Deleted member]

Oh i didn't notice that Falcon vs Falco went to 60-40

didn't seem right at 65-35

 

[KirbyKaze]

When Falco has the momentum of the game, he can laser Link all day long and Link doesn't really have an answer to it,

Seeing how Link is slow, and it's really easy to lock him down, this is a problem. Falco gets momentum really, really easily in the matchup and Link's slow jump, crappy dash, and crappy out of shield movement doesn't do him any favours.

but as soon as Link gets a break, Link can set up his projectiles and approach Falco nicely.

I agree somewhat. Falco being a cripple in terms of speed makes it awkward for him to fight when he's not laser locking people into oblivion, or stomping on their defenses with borderline unpunishable air kicks and the six blue lines.

However, Link's approach (and I'm pretty sure every Link main will agree with me on this) is anything but "nicely" against either space animal. His toys are cute, but they simply don't apply the same pressure because they require time to pull, and virtually every good Falco in the universe waits under platforms to some degree and that screws heavily with Link's arcing, slow projectiles.

His full jump Nair (and Nair in general) is cute, but it commits him for a long time, even if it is difficult to punish directly, and that's plenty of time to regain spacing and start the control going again.

Falco can't pressure Link because Link can either shieldgrab (even from a distance), wd OOS to shieldgrab, or simply up B (which DESTROYS Falco because it's a semi-spike and it sends Falco really far off).

No, if the Falco does the pressure right there's no chance for Link to sneak in his slow shield grab. Same for his slow Up+B.

Frame 10 and frame 9 are not fast at all.

I'm to lazy to do so right now, but I'm pretty sure if I checked Mogwai's thread, I'd find that it's actually impossible to do anything about a proper Falco pillar as Link. Granted, frame perfection isn't exactly a good argument in general because most people aren't, but given that the bulk of the population (myself included) can't grab Falco out of a pillar with a standard 7 frame shield grab, and Link's grab hitbox is crap, and slow, I don't know what Falcos you're playing, but someone is doing it wrong.