Melbourne Brawl | STIGMA-B for 2010 yes or no?

[Splice]

I am so against banning Luigis, Norfair that it is amazing, and I can't believe Japes is considered more tourney viable than those two stages. Green Greens, after some speculation probably is a bit too ********, and I've never played on Distant Planet. But you have control over Luigis the game is just a bit slower coz you have to play tactical to set the stage up how you want, and Norfair is fine, like everyone dodges the lava these days. Pictochat I also never play on but I don't see how it's that bad.

Japes massive ceiling is like, too massive? Like, you know, Green Greens/Cornerias ceiling is too small? It doesn't just make it harder to kill upwards, nigh impossible. Plus characters with spikes have it way easy, and the little crocodiles kill you if you jump too low or hold on to an edge for too long (which you might depending on the position you are in)

Lylat Cruise as a starter and striking 2 stages each is actually a great idea though, It's actually faster and more convenient than random and then quitting matches 'n' stuff.

 

[Tanman]

In favour of the change. That's about all I got to say ^^;

 

[Ledge_g2]

JJ is fine imo the crocs are timed every 10 seconds and a high ceiling doesnt mean much in bandworthy. corneria wasnt banned cos the ceiling it was banned because of the camping and random lazers.

 

[Splice]

I mentioned ceiling cos it's one of the reasons that it was listed for being banned in a thread i read once and both Corneria and GG's were criticized for that. I know they're timed, but sometimes they jump out of the water and get you from places you wouldnt expect. I don't know but when I play on it everything seems random like we might as well have items on, just seems weird to me. Still, I'm surprised that on the SBR list, Japes and RC have to be allowed as Counterpickable. I mean you should have the option of banning them, at least, they are quite different structurewise compared to other CP's.

 

[C~Dog]

A high ceiling is nowhere near as banworthy as a low ceiling, the high ceiling doesnt make you die at ridiculously low %s that you could DI otherwise.

Also, you do have the option of banning them. Thats why they are counterpick stages.

IMO, that list is pretty legit. Cao know's his stuff.

 

[Siyro]

I'm all for the new stage list. I like it a lot more for various reasons.

Also my Fox is finally coming back to Stigma for real this time. After Rocky I remembered something that I had forgoten, people enjoy fighting my Fox and the way I play him. Plus I'm sick of tier whoring, haha. There are exceptions to this, but I can't be bothered listing them.

 

[M]

I mentioned ceiling cos it's one of the reasons that it was listed for being banned in a thread i read once and both Corneria and GG's were criticized for that. I know they're timed, but sometimes they jump out of the water and get you from places you wouldnt expect. I don't know but when I play on it everything seems random like we might as well have items on, just seems weird to me. Still, I'm surprised that on the SBR list, Japes and RC have to be allowed as Counterpickable. I mean you should have the option of banning them, at least, they are quite different structurewise compared to other CP's.

The bigger issue about Corneria and Greens wasn't the stage boundaries, but the ease of landing wall infinites.

On the topic of Japes and RC, just ban one against everyone if you hate them so much. =P

 

[Splice]

I don't hate Japes that much and Rainbow Ride is fun for me.
I just dont see how Luigis Mansion and Norfair and Pictochat fall into a bannable category when these two are supposed to be counterpicks. I just think they're all in the same boat of tournament-viability.

I also dont think any of them should be banned except Green Greens. BTW I know the main reason wasn't stage boundries but it's still a reason, and to me boundries being too big is just as much of a reason, maybe a little less. (Like I don't think you can DI on Green Greens in most circumstances lol)

 

[tibs7]

keep the cp stages the same. but dont add lylat to neutrals

 

[C~Dog]

If you dont want to play on lylat, you have 2 stage strikes and a ban to make it not happen.

 

[Attila_]

tibs hates lylat, so he doesnt want to have to strike it. i personally think its more neutral than yoshi's (which is at least 2 characters very worst stage under any circumstances) and grants major advantages to a few of the cast.

 

[M]

I don't hate Japes that much and Rainbow Ride is fun for me.
I just dont see how Luigis Mansion and Norfair and Pictochat fall into a bannable category when these two are supposed to be counterpicks. I just think they're all in the same boat of tournament-viability.

In regards to Luigi's Mansion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujLvRh_4JHQ (specifically closer to the end of the match)

That's why it's worth the ban. Many characters can take advantage of the stage's structure and avoid conflict when they take a % lead. iirc Norfair shares a similar characteristic.

Pictochat I dunno. I don't quite remember anything being that bad about it. =S

i personally think its more neutral than yoshi's (which is at least 2 characters very worst stage under any circumstances) and grants major advantages to a few of the cast.

Agreed in full, without my Ness main bias against Yoshi's Island. 5 stages makes the stage striking system much more interesting anyways imo.

 

[tibs7]

i knew someone would say that or be like "get a secondary"
so lame, some of you guys dont understand..........oh well

 

[Splice]

Meteor that was a horrible example video. The rest of the match up to that point there was no problem with it, and MK could only start stalling so early coz the ROB wouldnt have enough time to break the pillars (not that he attempted to or anything anyway). MK was stalling anyway Isn't that banned? Plus the MK had a big lead over ROB already and so even though it is true Luigis Mansion matches go quite long, MK could only stall at the end and he already had a lead, and had had that lead for the entire game, He couldnt start stalling earlier because the ROB would have too much time and plus it would probably have been too noticeable if he did it for the whole match.

You are right that they have more than just a ledge to sit on when they have a % advantage, but you could really only start stalling very close to the end of the match else the opponent would have time to break the ledges.

Norfair can be kind of hard to approach your opponent when they have % lead but I've only ever had trouble on it once against a ZSS I don't think you can stall on Japes i guess, but you can on Rainbow Cruise except for the boat bit, and if its near the end of the match and you have % lead you could just wait til after that, like Plank waited for the timer to be too close to end time for the ROB to be able to break the buildings and rack damage.

Also, Telling people to ban a stage during a match if they think it should be banned is sorta silly especially if there are 2 stages in question not just one. We might as well have that Mario. Bros. stage with the crabs legal and if you think it should be banned, just use your stage ban on it. Not to mention I don't want any stages banned I just don't see how JJ's and Cruise are more viable than Luigis, Norfair and Pictochat lol.
For the record though, If i dont know what to Ban against a particular character i just go Japes xP

 

[Afropony]

Rocky stage list is good, I'm all for it

Like Jei said we have time to change it if we want and if it doesn't work out we can get rid of some stages or add some other ones.

 

[Ugly Man]

I like Mansion. I really do. I also hate Lylat. The actual stage for Lylat is about four metres across in the end - think about the last time you fought someone on Lylat. How long did you actually fight on the stage, and how long did you fight while standing on that engine pod up the end? Odds are, most of it.

Also, Yoshi's Not-God****ed-Flat stage is my most hated with two of the three characters I main.

What's my point? Don't really have one, except that we've never had anyone whine about the stages before, at least to my knowledge. Why change them now?

 

[Vermy]

View Shaya's stage list/system.

Its fully legit. Teams and Singles are 2 completely different games, and the legal stages should be treated as such.

 

[Splice]

Ugly people have always been whining.

For example, Corneria, the stage you are talking about, used to be legal but is now banned. Lylat Cruise is a different stage, it has the tilted edges and 3 platforms to jump on

 

[Dekar289]

loved the rocky ruleset

 

[joeyjoeyjoejoe]

I like Rocky ruleset minus JJ

 

[Dekar289]

don was unbeatable on jj
and imo thats ok, not like dk ever wins tournaments down here
yet

 

[Ugly Man]

Ugly people have always been whining.

For example, Corneria, the stage you are talking about, used to be legal but is now banned. Lylat Cruise is a different stage, it has the tilted edges and 3 platforms to jump on

I knew that, I just didn't know it. Or something. And people wonder why I don't post.

 

[joeyjoeyjoejoe]

Actually, keep JJ. I want my monthly 'IceK screaming at someone for beating them there with falco cg'

 

[C~Dog]

Anyone who wants tyo keep japes earns my unconditional love and respect.

EDIT: in retrospect, its actually pretty conditional

 

[Slashpockets]

View Shaya's stage list/system.

Its fully legit. Teams and Singles are 2 completely different games, and the legal stages should be treated as such.

Rocky had a different stage list for them aswell.

I agree with the stage list that Rocky had. I absolutely hate yoshi's island and lylat but I think there should be 5 neutral stages, and unfortunatly they are the next best neutrals.

 

[Attila_]

cant respect anyone who thinks corneria should be legal. its about as ****** as a stage could possibly be.

yoshi's island is:

ness' worst stage
lucas' worst stage
(arguably) pit's worst stage
samus' worst stage
wolf's best stage
sonic's best stage
one of falco's best stages
one of pikachu's best stages
one of ice climbers' worst stages
one of pokemon trainer's worst stages
one of snake's worst stages

wow that stage is so neutral. provided you dont use any of those 11 characters. lylat isnt half that bad.

 

[T.REX]

lylat just punishes noobs who cant control their characters recovery properly.

 

[Vermy]

cant respect anyone who thinks corneria should be legal. its about as ****** as a stage could possibly be.

yoshi's island is:

ness' worst stage
lucas' worst stage
(arguably) pit's worst stage
samus' worst stage
wolf's best stage
sonic's best stage
one of falco's best stages
one of pikachu's best stages
one of ice climbers' worst stages
one of pokemon trainer's worst stages
one of snake's worst stages

wow that stage is so neutral. provided you dont use any of those 11 characters. lylat isnt half that bad.

I concur.
You missed the part where its one of Wario's worst, and one of MK's best. And it's not that good for Falco, it can mess up his CG/Boost pivot CG/SHDL.

and to reiterate my point, Shaya's list is legit.

Standard Stage List:

STARTER (3)
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Counterpick (10)
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege
Pictochat
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1
Jungle Japes
Rainbow Cruise

 

[Attila_]

i just figure proper laser shooting will go under the shield a lot, if you place yourself properly. why is it so bad for wario? he's good at everything. and i forgot about mk, or rather, i seriously thought i wrote him down there.

but yeah, i like shaya's list (maybe with japes there).

 

[Vermy]

It forces Wario to bike away from the stage to recover and the uneven stage forces air release 80% of the time, the platform in the middle also makes it awkward for him to float around freely and the shy guys stall his best aerials (dair and nair) due to them being multi hit.

And, yeah add Japes, PS2 and Mansion and that's a sexy stage list.

 

[Leisha]

I pefer shaya's stage list =x, im not too fond of yoshi's island...

 

[M]

And, yeah add Japes, PS2 and Mansion and that's a sexy stage list.

siggghhh. Mansion is broken, it is way to easy to set up an infinite or lock under a roof.

PS2 is just plain stupid. Benefits nobody by being there. =P

Japes is good though.

 

[Vermy]

siggghhh. Mansion is broken, it is way to easy to set up an infinite or lock under a roof.

SHHHH!!!!
People only just discovered that i can set up a jab lock infinite with squirtle last month!!!

I like PS2. Ain't nothin' wrong with it. Nothing banworthy at all.

And japes is papes.

 

[C~Dog]

I like that list. Question: why is yoshis in blue and green?

If you take my Japes away from me i will start cp'ing Rainbow Ride like a ***** >=O

 

[luke_atyeo]

pretty sure its in blue and green cause it was a starter for pools and a cp for bracket, or something like that

 

[CAOTIC]

cant respect anyone who thinks corneria should be legal. its about as ****** as a stage could possibly be.

yoshi's island is:

ness' worst stage
lucas' worst stage
(arguably) pit's worst stage
samus' worst stage
wolf's best stage
sonic's best stage
one of falco's best stages
one of pikachu's best stages
one of ice climbers' worst stages
one of pokemon trainer's worst stages
one of snake's worst stages

wow that stage is so neutral. provided you dont use any of those 11 characters. lylat isnt half that bad.

Why do people always confuse starters stages with neutral stages? I've been saying this for years, there is no such thing as a truly fair/neutral stage. No stage comes close to providing this. Starters are just the easiest to play on and have the least amount of obstructions. That's all there is to it.

 

[Attila_]

i know and recognize that but yoshi's is even less neutral than half the cp list. it gives massive advantages to some and huge disadvantages to others. starters shouldnt do that.

 

[CAOTIC]

All of the most legit starters already do that...

 

[Tanman]

Sure Yoshi's Island Brawl has a number of major problems and gives advantages and disadvantages to the cast, but so does FD, Battlefield, etc. FD being totally flat and large gives heaps of room to run around to abuse projectiles, however, no platforms to take cover on or to camp under. Battlefield is the offer, providing places to hide under, however, little room to stay away from your opponent.

In my opinion, the closest thing to an even stage is Smashville, but it's still nowhere near even. Given Stage striking and the like though, that's how you're supposed to avoid the neutrals you don't like.

And I'd say Yoshi's Island Brawl isn't Sonic's beststage. FD is by far, much better.

 

[Dekar289]

mm fd a prime example