Browny
Smash Hater
wth? i just tested and squirtle can shield well before an fsmash comes out.. It doesnt even powershield, its a normal shield >_>
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MC's Wario guide. + matchups
- Thread starter MorphedChaos
- Start date
I don't know how you're testing it djbrowny, but I've done it to Squirtles, Nesses and Lucases in tournament consistently... unless Australian Brawl fixed the issue, maybe?
(I'm pretty sure I did it to Steeler at WHOBO, and I do it to Zigsta all the time, and I've done it to countless Lucas players).
(I'm pretty sure I did it to Steeler at WHOBO, and I do it to Zigsta all the time, and I've done it to countless Lucas players).
It was mentioned ages ago when they first discovered the one on Ness and Lucas.
Oh, and I don't THINK we can regrab them (though admittedly I've never tried) b/c I believe we may need to take a step and grab, and that gives them more than 10 frames to act.
Oh, and I don't THINK we can regrab them (though admittedly I've never tried) b/c I believe we may need to take a step and grab, and that gives them more than 10 frames to act.
Browny
Smash Hater
:/
idk ill look at it more, but I cant see any extra lag frames on his GR. like DMG said I know he has his AR problems with ike, falcon and marth, maybe more, but then again MK has some (very slight) air release problems and no GR's >_>
idk ill look at it more, but I cant see any extra lag frames on his GR. like DMG said I know he has his AR problems with ike, falcon and marth, maybe more, but then again MK has some (very slight) air release problems and no GR's >_>
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
I don't think Squirtle has the ground release problem like Ness and Lucas. He does suffer from an air release though.
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=16644
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=16644
Browny
Smash Hater
heh... Ill lol IRL if all those squirtle players got GR fsmashed all day because they didnt even try to press shield 
Dang... yeah... that's kinda sad/weird o_O
Rofl... grab releasing into dash grabs is almost just as bad. Get em offstage for gimps and wafts, yay.
Rofl... grab releasing into dash grabs is almost just as bad. Get em offstage for gimps and wafts, yay.
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
Ok... After a nice break I'm going to start a few matchups again. I do think though PX you'll need to proofread my new ones though. I do not claim I'm a master at each matchup .
.
I'll be more likely to do that once the summer is over, lol. You just keep doing your thing, and I'll eventually get around to checking them XD
FattyFatFatso
Smash Apprentice
Has anyone ever killed someone by riding their bike off stage?
Humpy Thrashabout
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2009
- Messages
- 294
My favorite way to kill is by chasing people off stage with the bike. It only works well on characters with a predictable recovery from below (Marth, Ike, Olimar). It's not incredibly effective. I usually miss or they space an air dodge through it. Fortunately it's unexpected and hard to punish. The opponent can try to hit you off, but at the expense of recovering properly.
Worst case scenario they hit you off, you both die.
Worst case scenario they hit you off, you both die.
Browny
Smash Hater
Bike has some decent horizontal knockback.. if you predict a ledge get-up attack and ride into it the enemy should get knocked from it and can result in a KO on the likes of marth, ike etc due to the angle it sends them at
Lucas and Ness.
OK, so it's been tested, and Squirtle can avoid the fsmash... guess I've just been getting lucky with them or catching people offguard.
We still got those other listed shenanigans we can do... most notably air release into dash grab.
We still got those other listed shenanigans we can do... most notably air release into dash grab.
FattyFatFatso
Smash Apprentice
Nesses and Lucases can be regrabbed up to a certain percent. (40%?) After that they are too damaged and ground break out of your range. Did this today while playing team friendlies.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
Hmmm
Smash Rookie
Pretty good guide.
PepsiMista
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2009
- Messages
- 129
Somebody needs to update the matchups.....
im thinking maybe making a new one?
im thinking maybe making a new one?
Gichan
Smash Champion
I have to say, I disagree with Luigi and WArio being even or in our favour. I'll admit to even at least but even in your write-up it seems like A LOT of work to fight Luigi.
That down B is a rushing wall of priority, and dayum, if a luigi player is good with that shoryuken you get rapppeedd.
His moves out-prioritize all of ours, you have to camp that mofo in to making a mistake, but even then he has that annoying nair.
That down B is a rushing wall of priority, and dayum, if a luigi player is good with that shoryuken you get rapppeedd.
His moves out-prioritize all of ours, you have to camp that mofo in to making a mistake, but even then he has that annoying nair.
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
I've gotta finish the matchups at some point, but I'm waiting for Phantom to get back so I can get started again.
Reason its even or in our favor is due to camping, most of them are.
Reason its even or in our favor is due to camping, most of them are
.
I'm back as of today. What exactly do I need to do? :\
Gichan
Smash Champion
Man, I hate that. It seems all of these matchups are even or in our favour if we camp camp camp. Like wtf, not all of us play like that. And another thing, wouldn't we be ****ed if they camped?
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
no, there's 2 ways to get the advantage. camping is the easy way out. Rather than having to do anything, you just run away. I'm not saying this doesn't take skill, but it takes a lot less skill than being aggressive. The other way is to just be really smart. If you are smart enough, you will find your openings and outplay your opponent. You don't have to camp luigi to win, you just have to be patient and do the right moves at the right time- we would still have the advantage.
and to answer your question, it's kind of hard to camp wario when 2 of his jumps can take him across any level. You can camp luigi in your sleep, since he has mediocre running speed and just flat out terrible air speed. the only camping wario loses to is like mk retreating fair camping, b/c you can't really get passed that with warios moveset
Gichan
Smash Champion
niiiiccee, okay. I remember PX saying that fair is good to use against Luigi till he makes a mistake then punish with whatever. One thing though, Can fair beat out Luigi's down B? that move gives me A LOT of trouble.
Only our ftilt beats his down b, or a well spaced waft/dair. Just do either. They're usually pretty predictable with down b b/c they'll use it to cover ground more than attacking.
chimpact
Smash Lord
Z drop bananas. Fair/fart gimp off stage. Hug the edge before he does his side b so he has to use his up b and either punish the ending lag of side b or force him to recover on stage. And watch out for Side b to grab release foostool. It works on wario as well. You shouldnt get hit by it though since your airspeed is really good. You can Ko him at like 50% off stage with half charged farts.
Don't get banana locked, cause you will lose a stock if he grab releases to dair you at the edge. I'm pretty sure even if you meteor cancel the dair, you will be spiked again or bair stage spiked.
If he glidetosses banana at you from far, bite them.
Always ban FD.
I need HELP in the falco matchup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't get banana locked, cause you will lose a stock if he grab releases to dair you at the edge. I'm pretty sure even if you meteor cancel the dair, you will be spiked again or bair stage spiked.
If he glidetosses banana at you from far, bite them.
Always ban FD.
I need HELP in the falco matchup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BATTL3B3AR
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2009
- Messages
- 2
nice wario moves. they come in handy when facing mk
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
Ok, I'll work on more matchups tomorrow. Question, Phantom, anything you can think of? I'll edit Luigi a bit I believe.
I still haven't had a chance to go through a lot of your later ones. Just continue as usual and I'll edit things when I get around to it. Been **** busy lately.
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
Uhm... I need someone to write me a ZSS matchup, and what would I rate the Wario vs Fox matchup? I don't fight any foxes besides Random Wifi, and that really doesn't count. I'm thinking 6:4 though? I dunno.
chimpact
Smash Lord
I think it's a little bit more in wario's favor because of gimps and the fact Fox's only reliable KO move is upsmash. While wario has the clap, fart, fsmash, and ftilt. Fair off stage kills too.
smashkng
Smash Lord
Fox's priority overall is low. And Fox is an extremely light character, he dies early.
DunnoBro
The Free-est
The wario vs fox matchup is easily 60:40/65:35 But it shouldn't be viewed like an inferior falco. As fox has some dangers falco doesn't.
I play a lot of fox mains, and some just plain good foxes, without maining him.
Not only is he a fast faller like falco, therefore very comboable, he has no annoying laser, and if he is dumb, and tries to camp with it, we can bike right through it.
Though despite being inferior to falco, he has more gimp options. Especially on FD.
His dair can mess us up while, or after we bring out the bike(Falco's dair has a hard time killing us with how precise it is, and warios unpredictability), so we do need to be careful about that. Just don't underestimate is aerial mobility.
Also, never use your bike when you are right behind them, and they are recovering too. Odds are, you'll ride right into the beginning of their recovery, and be knocked off your bike. With so much more distance than the firebird covers, they will use it to recover more often, if not just for this possibly gimp,
In addition to that, a FF'd dair over the edge when we are right below it, with no bike, is dangerous.
With no autosweetpotting, it's an almost guaranteed hit by a fox with good timing. So be prepared to use your up-b again quickly. This got me about 3 times before i noticed what i needed to do.
I play a lot of fox mains, and some just plain good foxes, without maining him.
Not only is he a fast faller like falco, therefore very comboable, he has no annoying laser, and if he is dumb, and tries to camp with it, we can bike right through it.
Though despite being inferior to falco, he has more gimp options. Especially on FD.
His dair can mess us up while, or after we bring out the bike(Falco's dair has a hard time killing us with how precise it is, and warios unpredictability), so we do need to be careful about that. Just don't underestimate is aerial mobility.
Also, never use your bike when you are right behind them, and they are recovering too. Odds are, you'll ride right into the beginning of their recovery, and be knocked off your bike. With so much more distance than the firebird covers, they will use it to recover more often, if not just for this possibly gimp,
In addition to that, a FF'd dair over the edge when we are right below it, with no bike, is dangerous.
With no autosweetpotting, it's an almost guaranteed hit by a fox with good timing. So be prepared to use your up-b again quickly. This got me about 3 times before i noticed what i needed to do.
Gichan
Smash Champion
I found that the Peach write-up didn't explain much on how to approach a Peach. I was using fairs and they kinda helped although Peach's moves seem to just outprioritize all of mine. Is there any tips one can give on how to approach?
Cloud9157
Smash Journeyman
I... Don't understand how Wario has next to no bad matchups.